Rape tape crusty apologises and abandons her flimsy principles

MagicSean

Ellis Dee wrote: »

True, but when did she make a claim - false or otherwise - of rape? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I suggest you withdraw your false claim that she did so.:D

The claim that she actually made was about highly inappropriate comments that some Gardai had made and were accidentally captured on her camcorder. The fact that no criminal prosecution has been brought against the officers in question indicates that the tolerance level in Ireland may still be too high, and perhaps also that loutish behaviour and grossly bad taste on the part of some members of our police force are not regarded as criminal.:)

What criminal prosecution would you suggest? What law was broken?

Motorist

Ellis Dee wrote: »

True, but when did she make a claim - false or otherwise - of rape? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I suggest you withdraw your false claim that she did so.:D

The claim that she actually made was about highly inappropriate comments that some Gardai had made and were accidentally captured on her camcorder. The fact that no criminal prosecution has been brought against the officers in question indicates that the tolerance level in Ireland may still be too high, and perhaps also that loutish behaviour and grossly bad taste on the part of some members of our police force are not regarded as criminal.:)

It seems hurling claims of rape at garda is par for the course with protesters down there. But of course the law doesn't apply to the crusties - they just involk it when it suits their own agenda.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rape-claims-were-hurled-at-gardai-by-protesters-2800104.html

"Another video tape has emerged relating to the so-called Mayo garda "rape tape" which suggests gardai who were removing two women protesters from a tractor -- in the presence of female officers -- were being accused of rape."

"As one of the women is helped on to the bonnet and then down into the arms of one of the female officers one of the male gardai can be heard saying "I am trying to get you down", while another woman is shouting in the background. A female voice can then be heard shouting "outrageous" and then, in a lower tone and from another female voice, the word "rape" can be heard."

"According to garda sources at least one unidentified woman protester used the word repeatedly as she was being moved from the site."


Imagine the stress of abuse being hurled at the gardai down there and allegations of rape being thrown at them constantly. Police forces making light of violent crime may seem distasteful but these are private coping mechanisms for situations which are incredibly hard to deal with. In high-stress situations black humour is a much-needed source of relief, as cynical or heartless as it may appear to those outside the profession. Of course the crux of this whole matter is that these individual garda were making this joke in private in their own separate car. Most of us would be utterly unhappy if private jokes made about customers, clients, etc were made public, especially when the whole context of them is lost.

The action, or more accurately lack thereof, by the Garda Ombudsman highlights just how frivolous this complaint was viewed and the veracity of how threatened this crusty felt. The only thing they were guilty of, in my opinion, was failing to check if the recorder they had confiscated was still recording.

skregs

Ellis Dee wrote: »

The author of this highly tendentious...

Stopped reading there.




Anyway, if she locked herself to a teleporter on the back of a truck, the driver should've just went on his merry way to Corrib until she copped on and unlocked herself.

Coriolanus

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Captain Darling wrote: »

But its a natural assumption to make nonetheless. Irregardless of whether she is representing the movements makeup as a whole (through her apparent hypocrisy), the general publics opinion will be influenced by this case.

Indeed, but the general public tend to be morons.

It would be like me starting a thread saying about that step-dad in America who beat his step-son to death and finishing the post by saying "All step-dads are murderers". That is to say, pointless and incorrect.

Not murderers, but stepchilfren are more likely to suffer harm than a natural. I'll post a link, I have the publication at home.

token101

28064212 wrote: »

Nope, she was told she would get two convictions and still wouldn't apologise. Then her lawyer hauled her off to a back room and presumably told her to cop the fuck on. She returned, got her lawyer to apologise for her, with an addendum that she still "thought what she did could be morally and legally justified at the time"

What a load of bullsh*t. Why does having a PhD work in her favour? Surely that should indicate she shuold have more cop on? She doesn't accept responsibility, it's the most futile apology going. What a joke of a system we have here. It's getting more ridiculous every passing week with stories like this. She tried to ruin two cops careers who tried to do their job and tried to stop her killing herself and receiving a posthumous Darwin Award. What a nasty, vindictive c*nt. Delighted the judge didn't stop her going to America, she'll stay there hopefully. With the American justice system and having watched Louis Theroux's Miami Jail series, I hope she trys that over there and gets the treatment she deserves.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Rape only occurs after penetration. If the Guard copped a feel while extracting the crusty down off the tractor then you could argue that a sexual offence has occurred, but we all know that didn't happen.

AeoNGriM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

A teleporter??? A teleporter?? The things they had on Star Trek to transport them from starship to planet? These are being ferried around Ireland on lorries?? Why don't they just put them inside another teleporter and teleport them to the desired location?

Those were ****ing TRANSPORTERS. Chief O'Brien would NOT be impressed with you, boyo!

ejmaztec

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Rape only occurs after penetration. If the Guard copped a feel while extracting the crusty down off the tractor then you could argue that a sexual offence has occurred, but we all know that didn't happen.

Trying to impress with your legal jargon won't impress anyone here, you know.:P

Dudess

C*nts on both sides of this fiasco IMO.

Ellis Dee wrote: »

The author of this highly tendentious OP sort of reminds me of the Wilhelm Busch tale about the cook who could whip fifty blancmanges out of a single egg white. She married a barber, who could make an awful lot of foam out of very little soap. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The young lady, who is described using the pejorative term "crusty", is used as some kind of example to tar with the same brush all who exercise their right to protest. She did not commit violence and her complaints against the Gardai were, unless someone can prove otherwise, made in good faith.:)

She can not be blamed for realising later that her conviction for a minor offence could lead to her having to pay an utterly disproportionate price in that she would be refused an American visa.:cool:

The whole Corrib gas thing has been horribly mishandled by those in Ireland who would have had the power to ensure a valuable national natural resource benefits the Irish people as a whole rather than posing a very real threat to the lives and health of some of them, in other words, by the Government, and those protesters deserve at least recognition that they are sincere if misguided. Mudslinging and name-calling only reflects back on those who engage in it.:mad:

p.s. She's pretty easy on the eye as well, and what should be worrying us a lot more than a peaceful protest is the fact that it now seems to be just taken for granted that young people like her have no future here in Ireland. Maybe the OP's anger and smears should be better aimed at the political parties who are giving our national wealth away.:rolleyes:

You were doing so well with that PC diatribe 'til the bolded bit. :pac:

smeedyova

A lot of the language being used here to described the lady in question is reprehensible, at best.

Where is the moderator?

The Waltzing Consumer

smeedyova wrote: »

A lot of the language being used here to described the lady in question is reprehensible, at best.

Where is the moderator?

Yay, you are the poster from the other thread about this topic who hinted at the possibility that the Gardai may have well broken all laws of physics in managing to rape the girl whilst escorting her from the tractor and not have any of this captured on video camera or by witnesses, protesters, gardai and the women themselves!

It's good to have a sane voice in here...proceed :P

charlemont

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im glad they atleast made it to court. Those shell 2 sea lot are all ignorant hippies with nothing better to do, the sooner that pipe is finished and theyre gone the better.

Wait till the fracking starts !! This will be a whole new ball game. The stakes will be much higher..

smeedyova

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yay, you are the poster from the other thread about this topic who hinted at the possibility that the Gardai may have well broken all laws of physics in managing to rape the girl whilst escorting her from the tractor and not have any of this captured on video camera or by witnesses, protesters, gardai and the women themselves!
:P

That is a false statement.

Motorist

smeedyova wrote: »

A lot of the language being used here to described the lady in question is reprehensible, at best.

Where is the moderator?

Doing their jobs, defending the truth.

Eric Cartman

charlemont wrote: »

Wait till the fracking starts !! This will be a whole new ball game. The stakes will be much higher..

i wish I could bulldoze the lot of them. The worst part is that more people are against fracking than the gas pipeline, so its going to be twice as idiotic and twice as wasteful of garda resources that Im paying for

why cant these people just sit at home and write angry posts on forums like the rest of us, instead of not showering for months, attacking innocent people and making rape claims against gards just trying to do their jobs.

The Waltzing Consumer

smeedyova wrote: »

That is a false statement.

smeedyova wrote: »

As for false accusations on the part of the woman: I am not aware that the accusations are false and I am concerned only with the comments that I heard on the tape.

So how is my statement false? A video with witnesses and gardai escorting a woman very gently from a tractor when the woman accuses rape at the Guards with 0% evidence and nothing within the laws of physics to back it up yet you do not acknowledge this is a false claim even though it is there in black and white?

smeedyova

Yes, it is a false statement. I did not at any point suggest that the women might have been raped. I stated that I was not aware that the accusations were false. You are confusing two very different things.

Ellis Dee

Reading some of the posts here, I note with great satisfaction that the standard of literacy, spelling and grammar among members of the Garda Siochana is markedly improving.:):):)

Motorist

I wonder if this crusty, eternal PhD student's tax-payer funded doctorate is on something to do with moral flip-flops, and selfish and shallow self-interested principles.

All that nonsense of locking herself to a truck and closing down a public road for hours, along with the significant time wasted of emergency services personnel, goes out the window for a visa to the home of capitalism. Just another spineless, attention seeker.

Lorna Siggins of the Irish Times should be ashamed for the significance she attempted to attach to the original melodramatic non-story. Has to be up there with Siggins's breaking of the story of the mysterious sinking of fisherman Pat O'Donnell's boat by lads in Scuba gear. Unfortunately for Pat, he was unable to claim insurance for the sinking of his old rickety boat due to it being lost in a self-admitted "Act of Terrorism"

smeedyova

Motorist wrote: »

I wonder if this crusty, eternal PhD student's tax-payer funded doctorate is on something to do with moral flip-flops, and selfish and shallow self-interested principles.

I'm guessing that you haven't got a PhD, right?

MagicSean

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Reading some of the posts here, I note with great satisfaction that the standard of literacy, spelling and grammar among members of the Garda Siochana is markedly improving.:):):)

It's actually An Garda Síochána but good effort.

prinz

smeedyova wrote: »

A lot of the language being used here to described the lady in question is reprehensible, at best. Where is the moderator?

Do you see the irony in posting the above and then thanking a post attempting (albeit badly) to insult the intelligence of members of AGS?

LH Pathe

She'd be more hippy than crusty, actually.. more timotei than matted

crusties in such scenarios usually amounts to anarchy.. at least they did when I was a lad. Motorist is a motorist, though.

smeedyova

No. Any self-improvement is worthy of note and praise, no?

prinz

smeedyova wrote: »

No. Any self-improvement is worthy of note and praise, no?

If I praise you enough will you learn to discern a joke from an actual threat?

Pappa Charlie

MagicSean wrote: »

It's actually An Garda Síochána but good effort.

Ouch!!

smeedyova

prinz wrote: »

If I praise you enough will you learn to discern a joke from an actual threat?

Probably not. I like to base my opinions on irrefutable evidence.:)

prinz

smeedyova wrote: »

Probably not. I like to base my opinions on irrefutable evidence.:)

So head in sand instead of common sense. I think there's a pattern emerging.

Laphroaig52

28064212 wrote: »

Nope, she was told she would get two convictions and still wouldn't apologise. Then her lawyer hauled her off to a back room and presumably told her to cop the fuck on. She returned, got her lawyer to apologise for her, with an addendum that she still "thought what she did could be morally and legally justified at the time"

But what's all this?
You can just show up in court now and say "Sorry 'bout that" and everything's OK?

Does the gentleman who got mixed up between apples and garlic (happens me all the time) know about this?

Seriously though, when did saying "Sorry" get you off the hook in court?
She should have got at least 5 "Hail Mary's" as well.....

charlemont

Eric Cartman wrote: »

i wish I could bulldoze the lot of them. The worst part is that more people are against fracking than the gas pipeline, so its going to be twice as idiotic and twice as wasteful of garda resources that Im paying for

why cant these people just sit at home and write angry posts on forums like the rest of us, instead of not showering for months, attacking innocent people and making rape claims against gards just trying to do their jobs.

You can include me in that too, Fracking is a step too far and is environmental terrorism in my book. I'd strongly advise you and others to read up about it..

Motorist

Flyer28 wrote: »

But what's all this?
You can just show up in court now and say "Sorry 'bout that" and everything's OK?

Does the gentleman who got mixed up between apples and garlic (happens me all the time) know about this?

Seriously though, when did saying "Sorry" get you off the hook in court?
She should have got at least 5 "Hail Mary's" as well.....

Seems the judge took pity on her given she has publicly embarrassed herself so much. Suppose someone has to rescue her from herself. Hopefully we weren't hear of anymore victimatic nonsense crusades from her such as a TSA agent looking at her funny.

Ellis Dee

LH Pathe wrote: »

She'd be more hippy than crusty, actually.. more timotei than matted

crusties in such scenarios usually amounts to anarchy.. at least they did when I was a lad. Motorist is a motorist, though.

Good points. I also wonder why that word "crusty" is being bandied about so much. I must say it's rather new to me, although In have seen it used in trashy right-wing UK publications like the Daily Hatemail. It's actually a very right-wing/fascistoid thing to try and dehumanise those with whom you don't agree. The same goes for "knacker", a word that I would never use unless it referred to a person whose profession is the useful one of collecting, processing and disposing of animal carcasses.:)

Why not just call the young lady what she is: a well-educated young person who cares enough about an important matter to take a stance? Ireland needs more people who care; we hear quite enough complaining these days about young people who don't give a crap about anything.:D Citizen participation in decision making on matters that affect all of us should be encouraged. And it is sad that those who do not themselves embrace such principles as lifelong education sneer at those who do.

After all, the members of An Garda Síochána who are posting here should appreciate the fact that none of us who disagree with them are calling them "pigs", despite what has been revealed in recent years about Donegal and other places. Incidentally, Prinz, I did not call their intelligence into question, but far too many of them definitely need to improve their educational standard, and a few would do well to improve their manners as well.:eek:

Dudess: I fail to understand why you object to me mentioning, in passing, that I find that young lady quite attractive. Surely a (not necessarily dirty) old man like me is allowed to say that, just as it would be OK to say "what a pretty child"?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

prinz

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why not just call the young lady what she is: a well-educated young person who cares enough about an important matter to take a stance?

...but doesn't care enough to put her travel plans in danger... it's ok people who needed to travel that road, she will sacrifice your travel plans for the cause!

prinz

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Prinz, I did not call their intelligence into question, but far too many of them definitely need to improve their educational standard....

Do you have some sort of study on this? What is the general educational standard of a member?

Motorist

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why not just call the young lady what she is: a well-educated young person who cares enough about an important matter to take a stance? Ireland needs more people who care; we hear quite enough complaining these days about young people who don't give a crap about anything.:D Citizen participation in decision making on matters that affect all of us should be encouraged. And it is sad that those who do not themselves embrace such principles as lifelong education sneer at those who do.

A stance which she apologised for and accepted was wrong for a visa to the home of capitalism. You'd find more backbone in a slug.

Pappa Charlie

If this lady was going to take a stance then she should have followed it through, her u turn shows how she can change her tune when it suits her and run with a cock and bull story to get a result, hardly honourable or credible. It makes the story about the deletion of the "interviews" on the tape very hard to swallow. I hope she enjoys the USA but she better not test their courts the same way!

ihateusernames

So if some lad gets in scrap in Supermacs after a few too many pints will a judge dismiss his charges on the basis he might want to visit New York in a few years?
Doubt it

MagicSean

ihateusernames wrote: »

So if some lad gets in scrap in Supermacs after a few too many pints will a judge dismiss his charges on the basis he might want to visit New York in a few years?
Doubt it

Actually yes he might very well if they had no previous.

ihateusernames

MagicSean wrote: »

Actually yes he might very well if they had no previous.

Really? Havent seen a fella in a tracksuit in court get away with anything, even on first offences, but i won't dispute what ye said. Still think she was treated differenly though

Ellis Dee

prinz wrote: »

Do you have some sort of study on this? What is the general educational standard of a member?

Why don't you tell me (and the rest of us)?:rolleyes:

For example, what percentage of Gardai have a university degree?:rolleyes:

How many of the higher ranks (from Inspector up) have law degrees? When I worked with the Finnish police, virtually all officers from the rank of inspector up had at least an LL.B. degree.;)

I have to say that I fairly squirmed with embarrassment at a funeral in Stradbally some time back (well, in the hotel afterwards). One of the women in my extended family is married to a Garda in Co. Mayo. He was one of the thickest, rudest, opinionated eejits I have ever come across, a blustering bully that I would hate to be alone in a cell with. A really nasty prick, and I doubt that he even has the Leaving Cert. It would have been quite pointless to even try and discuss fundamental and human rights (the field in which I was then working) with him, as I doubt that he would have been able to read even the Daily Wail without moving his lips. Only one example, of course, and the standard is, as I have already mentioned, improving. :pac::pac::pac:

prinz

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why don't you tell me (and the rest of us)?:rolleyes:

So that's a no, you have no clue. Thought as much.

Ellis Dee wrote: »

For example, what percentage of Gardai have a university degree?

The Garda College is a third level education institution. At the very least a garda passing out has a B.A.

Pappa Charlie

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why don't you tell me (and the rest of us)?:rolleyes:

For example, what percentage of Gardai have a university degree?:rolleyes:

How many of the higher ranks (from Inspector up) have law degrees? When I worked with the Finnish police, virtually all officers from the rank of inspector up had at least an LL.B. degree.;)

I have to say that I fairly squirmed with embarrassment at a funeral in Stradbally some time back (well, in the hotel afterwards). One of the women in my extended family is married to a Garda in Co. Mayo. He was one of the thickest, rudest, opinionated eejits I have ever come across, a blustering bully that I would hate to be alone in a cell with. A really nasty prick, and I doubt that he even has the Leaving Cert. It would have been quite pointless to even try and discuss fundamental and human rights (the field in which I was then working) with him, as I doubt that he would have been able to read even the Daily Wail without moving his lips. Only one example, of course, and the standard is, as I have already mentioned, improving. :pac::pac::pac:

I'd say he took to you as well!

ihateusernames

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why don't you tell me (and the rest of us)?:rolleyes:
It would have been quite pointless to even try and discuss fundamental and human rights

In fairness what makes you think he would want to talk to you about the above. The chap in all likelyhood either gets abused by scumbags or bashed by upper/uppermiddle class who believe they are being violated if a member of An Garda Siochana comes within 10 foot of them...............all whilst trying to uphold law and order and keep the peace.

Benny_Cake

Ellis Dee wrote: »

prinz wrote: »

Do you have some sort of study on this? What is the general educational standard of a member?

Why don't you tell me (and the rest of us)?:rolleyes:

For example, what percentage of Gardai have a university degree?:rolleyes:

How many of the higher ranks (from Inspector up) have law degrees? When I worked with the Finnish police, virtually all officers from the rank of inspector up had at least an LL.B. degree.;)

The standard training in Templemore now leads to a degree in policing studies, so all Gardai passing out now would have a degree. I've no percentages as to how many younger Gardai have degrees, a good many I'd imagine particularly as you can join at a later age. The facilities in Templemore are first rate too, better than a good many other third level colleges I've been to.

MagicSean

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why don't you tell me (and the rest of us)?:rolleyes:

For example, what percentage of Gardai have a university degree?:rolleyes:

How many of the higher ranks (from Inspector up) have law degrees? When I worked with the Finnish police, virtually all officers from the rank of inspector up had at least an LL.B. degree.;)

I have to say that I fairly squirmed with embarrassment at a funeral in Stradbally some time back (well, in the hotel afterwards). One of the women in my extended family is married to a Garda in Co. Mayo. He was one of the thickest, rudest, opinionated eejits I have ever come across, a blustering bully that I would hate to be alone in a cell with. A really nasty prick, and I doubt that he even has the Leaving Cert. It would have been quite pointless to even try and discuss fundamental and human rights (the field in which I was then working) with him, as I doubt that he would have been able to read even the Daily Wail without moving his lips. Only one example, of course, and the standard is, as I have already mentioned, improving. :pac::pac::pac:

Completion of Garda training comes with a degree. All ranks from Superintendent upwards must complete a management degree also. I'd say about one third of recruite also have some kind of third level qualification before entry.

The Aussie

Ive been wondering if the protesters of either Corrib or Occupy are able to claim Job Seekers and if so could the Social Welfare cut off their payments because they are not actively seeking employment and in the case of the Occupy protest cut off rent allowance as they were no longer living in their stated accommodation, just wondered about these issues.

suicide_circus

Whats all this about the rape of some girls crusty gas pipe?

xflyer

She's a classic example of middle class child angst. Most of the 'crusty' protestors out there hail from that class. The real working class are too busy surviving to be bothering with whether or not some multinational is 'raping' the country.

She like so many others are going through their 'stick it to their bourgeoise parents' phase. When faced with the reality that their J1 visa is in danger. They cry innocent. The truth is they feel guilty for their privileged background, so off they go and try and save the world.

I'm pretty cynical about the whole thing as you can guess and am astonished that the 'rape tape' the lead item on the RTE news the other day. An abssolute non story of a story.

I say this, knowing my two sons will grow up the same, suffering from middle class privileged angst.:rolleyes:

Motorist

xflyer wrote: »

She's a classic example of middle class child angst. Most of the 'crusty' protestors out there hail from that class. The real working class are too busy surviving to be bothering with whether or not some multinational is 'raping' the country.

She like so many others are going through their 'stick it to their bourgeoise parents' phase. When faced with the reality that their J1 visa is in danger. They cry innocent. The truth is they feel guilty for their privileged background, so off they go and try and save the world.

I'm pretty cynical about the whole thing as you can guess and am astonished that the 'rape tape' the lead item on the RTE news the other day. An abssolute non story of a story.

I say this, knowing my two sons will grow up the same, suffering from middle class privileged angst.:rolleyes:

The Rossport 5 spent 94 days in prison and stuck by their principles and convictions. This privileged South Dublin princess abandoned everything she supposedly stood for after about 94 seconds of advice from her barrister. Also interesting that she had a barrister in a district court for a minor offence, Daddy's wallet to the rescue.

Given all the publicity she attracted over the past year with a high profile GSOC investigation, she is really quite the embarrassment for the cause she supposedly so vehemently espoused.

token101

smeedyova wrote: »

A lot of the language being used here to described the lady in question is reprehensible, at best.

Where is the moderator?

Indeed. I object strongly to you calling her a lady.