Flouride to be added to Northern Ireland water

Daithi 1

Facebook group against fluoride in NI water, found here..

https://www.facebook.com/groups/287362741350138/

Health Minister Edwin Poots is considering adding fluoride to water in Northern Ireland in a bid to curb the rate of tooth decay in young people.
Northern Ireland has the worst oral health in the UK and young people in the region have the worst rate of dental decay in western Europe.
The DUP MLA said the public should be ashamed of their dental hygiene.
"We've failed miserably," he said, before adding that children were being allowed far too much sugary food and drink from a very early age - in some cases before the age of one year.

http://www.u.tv/news/Fluoridation-proposal-to-combat-decay/d02a9c93-19a0-44de-8d08-6193723f613a#.T5hAivFN2sk.facebook

Mr Benevolent

Meh, we have it and theres nothinfjw ndkwd indqgfn!

krudler

horrible sityeachun

Solair

The cause is more likely to be lack of dental care and bad diet.

I seem to remember that Northern Ireland and Scotland also had some of the worst diets, risks of heart disease and childhood obesity in the EU too.

Perhaps educating kids about brushing their teeth and cutting back on the high-sugar food might be more useful?

If dental problems in NI are worse than other EU countries / other parts of the UK that do not fluoridate water (none of the rest of the EU does), then I would suggest the problem is something else...

Gee Bag

Solair wrote: »

If dental problems in NI are worse than other EU countries / other parts of the UK that do not fluoridate water (none of the rest of the EU does), then I would suggest the problem is something else...

The teeth aren't the problem, its the fact that they are attached to nordies.

My name is URL

Brush yizzer teeth ye scummy fcuktards!

davet82

Flouride to be added to Northern Ireland up the norths water supply :P

starbelgrade

Ulster says 'no' to Fenian flouride.

CreepingDeath

They could use some valium too.

Born to Die

starbelgrade wrote: »

Ulster says 'no' to Fenian flouride.

I was wondering what Keith would think.

davet82

CreepingDeath wrote: »

They could use some valium too.

LSD would be more interesting

My name is URL

Solair wrote: »

Perhaps educating kids about brushing their teeth and cutting back on the high-sugar food might be more useful?

That's what they done in Cuba and it had a massively positive impact on dental health amongst students. They introduced rinsing programs in schools where kids would brush their teeth under supervision twice a week, and the rate of caries reduced by over 50% in just a few years.

Of course, a targeted approach to dealing with a problem like that makes too much sense for the gombeens on this fecking island. Better to medicate everyone to tackle a problem faced by a minority of people :rolleyes:

zenno

Fair enough if they want to force medicate the people but fluoride is not supposed to be ingested. If you just use it for brushing your teeth and spit out the water then ok but saying that fluoride should be used in drinking water to be ingested is not safe imo especially over a very long period of time.

44leto

Prozac to gives us the feel good factor and end the depression,

opinion guy

My name is URL wrote: »

That's what they done in Cuba and it had a massively positive impact on dental health amongst students. They introduced rinsing programs in schools where kids would brush their teeth under supervision twice a week, and the rate of caries reduced by over 50% in just a few years.

Of course, a targeted approach to dealing with a problem like that makes too much sense for the gombeens on this fecking island. Better to medicate everyone to tackle a problem faced by a minority of people :rolleyes:

Ah Url - so much effort thou. Much easier (cheaper) to dump some industrial waste into the water and save our industry chums the cost of disposing of it :rolleyes:

oldrnwisr

zenno wrote: »

Fair enough if they want to force medicate the people but fluoride is not supposed to be ingested. If you just use it for brushing your teeth and spit out the water then ok but saying that fluoride should be used in drinking water to be ingested is not safe imo especially over a very long period of time.

What utter crap!

Fluoride is perfectly safe to be ingested. In fact fluoride in drinking water has more beneficial effects than fluoride in toothpaste. By having a regular intake of fluoridated water, the fluoride concentration in saliva can be maintained at a level that will a) remineralise eroded tooth enamel, b) convert the existing tooth enamel which is made from hydroxyapatite into fluoroapatite which is what sharks teeth are made of and is far stronger and c) inhibits the metabolism of bacteria which convert sugar to acid which erodes enamel.

Fluoride ingested through brushing will only accomplish the first of these three benefits. Additionally fluoridated water compensates for a lapse in brushing not to mention that children will drink water before they ever need to brush.

zenno

could seek the european court on human rights against being force medicated by your government before this is implemented. everyone has a right to clean and chemical free water so it's a human rights issue.

opinion guy

Do I look like a shark to you ?

DesperateDan

I thought it was already in everyone's water, why on earth would someone oppose this?!

davet82

if i lived up the north, would i be worried... i smoke 20 cigs a day and eat junk food 4 or 5 times a week, i think i'd take my chances

My name is URL

DesperateDan wrote: »

I thought it was already in everyone's water, why on earth would someone oppose this?!

In everyone's water? Ireland is one of the last countries in Europe the world to add it wholesale to public water supplies. Other nations have banned its use on both ethical and medical grounds. Fluoridated salt is available in those countries for people that wish to ingest it.

See here

NiallFH

Gee Bag wrote: »

The teeth aren't the problem, its the fact that they are attached to nordies.

FU :mad:

Dental care is freely accessible up here its scummy people not taking their kids and feeding them ****e.

Was on the train the other day and there was a kid about 5 with a litre bottle of boost and a king size galaxy bar, who feeds their kid that.

zenno

DesperateDan wrote: »

I thought it was already in everyone's water, why on earth would someone oppose this?!

You are missing the point like a lot of other people in regards to using fluoride for brushing your teeth and ingesting it. fluoride was never meant to be ingested and this is the problem, the debate is still out whether fluoride even works to help your teeth but swallowing fluoride is not recommended.

For example in the united states of america all toothpaste have a poison warning on the tube telling people that if ingested seek medical attention. There is a good reason for this as fluoride is not mean't to be ingested and as I already said this is the main problem.

davet82

NiallFH wrote: »

FU :mad:

Was on the train the other day and there was a kid about 5 with a litre bottle of boost and a king size galaxy bar, who feeds their kid that.

FU too :mad:

Who are you to tell me what i feed my kids! Its all i had on me.

Gee Bag

davet82 wrote: »

if i lived up the north, would i be worried... i smoke 20 cigs a day and eat junk food 4 or 5 times a week, i think i'd take my chances

Is that you Brian Cowen?

davet82

Gee Bag wrote: »

Is that you Brian Cowen?

ah bollíx...

new user name for me so

Gee Bag

davet82 wrote: »

ah bollíx...

new user name for me so

How about XXXmaryharneyXXX

davet82

Gee Bag wrote: »

How about XXXmaryharneyXXX

na, something about XXX not going together well with mary harney :pac:

Daithi 1

oldrnwisr wrote: »

What utter crap!

Fluoride is perfectly safe to be ingested.

Fluoride has minimal to zero effect when ingested. :rolleyes:

zenno

Also whatever way you look at it, it is forced medication of a population because if people want to use fluoride then they have a choice to use toothpaste that has it in it or bottled water that has fluoride in it but what choice does a person have if it's introduced to the main water supply ? not much choice there. Forced medication of a population should be resisted vigorously.

My name is URL

Here's a list of stuff containing fluoride, and the amounts of it within each product

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Fluoride/fluoride.pdf

How anyone can actually think that it's still necessary to fluoridate the entire water supply, despite the fact that there's so many other sources of it these days is beyond me.

It's an outdated idea.. and anyone with a bit of sense should be able to see that. I'm sure that 50 odd years ago, when there was less produce and less trade, it was a great idea to add it to the water for everybody.. but not today

Hobbes

zenno wrote: »

Fair enough if they want to force medicate the people but fluoride is not supposed to be ingested.

It is 1.0 mg/L (Liter of water has 1,000,000mg). That is practically homeopathy.

Ben D Bus

zenno wrote: »

For example in the united states of america all toothpaste have a poison warning on the tube telling people that if ingested seek medical attention. There is a good reason for this as fluoride is not mean't to be ingested and as I already said this is the main problem.

Fear of lawsuits more likely.

DesperateDan

My name is URL wrote: »

In everyone's water? Ireland is one of the last countries in Europe the world to add it wholesale to public water supplies. Other nations have banned its use on both ethical and medical grounds. Fluoridated salt is available in those countries for people that wish to ingest it.

Well from a quick glance of the wikipedia page on the issue, those 'ethical and medical' grounds seem reserved for crazy dumb americans and conspiracy theorists concerned about the government brainwashing them. Which I'm open to being disproven but the fact that there's an entire page devoted to American fluoride court cases points me towards this opinion.

In fact it states the only concrete adverse effect (and from ingesting too much of it, which wouldn't happen as its properly governed) is mild dental fluorosis. "The risk of fluoride overexposure occurs between the ages of 3 months and 8 years. In its mild forms (which are its most common), fluorosis often appears as unnoticeable, tiny white streaks or specks in the enamel of the tooth. In its most severe form, tooth appearance is marred by discoloration or brown markings". Oh no :eek:!

I for one am glad there's fluoride in my drinking water!

My name is URL

DesperateDan wrote: »

I for one am glad there's fluoride in my drinking water!

Why? Do you not look after your own teeth? You need the government to do it for you? Poor diddums

Of course you're going to find conspiracy-theory stuff on the Wikipedia page, under the 'Controversy' section of the article. That doesn't disprove that Ireland is the only country in Europe to fluoridate more than 10% of the total public water supply. Do you think that every other country has got it wrong? Get real.. when is Ireland ever ahead of the curve?

zenno

oldrnwisr wrote: »

What utter crap!

Fluoride is perfectly safe to be ingested. In fact fluoride in drinking water has more beneficial effects than fluoride in toothpaste. By having a regular intake of fluoridated water, the fluoride concentration in saliva can be maintained at a level that will a) remineralise eroded tooth enamel, b) convert the existing tooth enamel which is made from hydroxyapatite into fluoroapatite which is what sharks teeth are made of and is far stronger and c) inhibits the metabolism of bacteria which convert sugar to acid which erodes enamel.

Fluoride ingested through brushing will only accomplish the first of these three benefits. Additionally fluoridated water compensates for a lapse in brushing not to mention that children will drink water before they ever need to brush.

People like you make me laugh, did i hit a nerve ?. someone needs a bit of education on this matter. Why do you think some european countries don't use it or have removed it from their water supplies ?. It is because of ethical and medical grounds as a previous poster mentioned as well.

DesperateDan

My name is URL wrote: »

Why? Do you not look after your own teeth? You need the government to do it for you? Poor diddums

Of course you're going to find conspiracy-theory stuff on the Wikipedia page, under the 'Controversy' section of the article. That doesn't disprove that Ireland is the only country in Europe to fluoridate more than 10% of the total public water supply. Do you think that every other country has got it wrong? Get real.. when is Ireland ever ahead of the curve?

Wow you're an angry person. Yeah I'll give you your wee table, I don't see why Ireland's levels are that high. I'm scottish and my Irish girlfriend had a small brown stain on one tooth she got cleaned last year, maybe that was from too much fluoride growing up? I'm still yet to see any concrete evidence from you of truly adverse effects. Bring me them and then I'll aquiesce :cool:

zenno

Some of you are missing the most important part of this debate, and that is the fact that if fluoride is introduced to the main water supply then no-one has a choice and are forced to drink it. As has been said already there are enough products out there that people can use if they want fluoride so people have a choice whether they want to ingest it or not but when it is put into the whole water supply system then your out of look. This is the main case regarding fluoridating the main water supply. You go ahead and ingest till the cows come home I don't care what you do as I just want clean water without any chemicals or fluoride in it and I have a right to clean water as a citizen of my country.

hooradiation

My name is URL wrote: »

Of course you're going to find conspiracy-theory stuff on the Wikipedia page, under the 'Controversy' section of the article. That doesn't disprove that Ireland is the only country in Europe to fluoridate more than 10% of the total public water supply. Do you think that every other country has got it wrong? Get real.. when is Ireland ever ahead of the curve?

What other countries do or do not do has absolutely no bearing on the topic of weather or not Ireland ought to fluoridate it's water supply.

DesperateDan

zenno wrote: »

Some of you are missing the most important part of this debate, and that is the fact that if fluoride is introduced to the main water supply then no-one has a choice and are forced to drink it. As has been said already there are enough products out there that people can use if they want fluoride so people have a choice whether they want to ingest it or not but when it is put into the whole water supply system then your out of look. This is the main case regarding fluoridating the main water supply. You go ahead and ingest till the cows come home I don't care what you do as I just want clean water without any chemicals or fluoride in it and I have a right to clean water as a citizen of my country.

Yeah I think that's the crux of it, people disagree on whether or not the government should interfere. I believe they should, the main reason being that people are too stupid or lazy to look after their own teeth properly, so if the government can help, I would say let them. I can see why people wouldn't want the government putting it in their water though. Wouldn't it be nice if the water meters gave you a choice, fluoride or non-fluoride!?

My name is URL

DesperateDan wrote: »

Wow you're an angry person. Yeah I'll give you your wee table, I don't see why Ireland's levels are that high. I'm scottish and my Irish girlfriend had a small brown stain on one tooth she got cleaned last year, maybe that was from too much fluoride growing up? I'm still yet to see any concrete evidence from you of truly adverse effects. Bring me them and then I'll aquiesce :cool:

You won't be getting any concrete evidence form me that there are any adverse effects either. I never once claimed that there were any! That has nothing at all to do with the reason I'm opposed to fluoridation of the public water supply.

Mr Benevolent

Keith AFC will be along shortly. Is he a cat-licker or protest-aunt? I never can tell.

zenno

DesperateDan wrote: »

Yeah I think that's the crux of it, people disagree on whether or not the government should interfere. I believe they should, the main reason being that people are too stupid or lazy to look after their own teeth properly, so if the government can help, I would say let them. I can see why people wouldn't want the government putting it in their water though. Wouldn't it be nice if the water meters gave you a choice, fluoride or non-fluoride!?

That's a good point regarding (people are too stupid or lazy to look after their own teeth properly) I agree a lot of people are too lazy and not bothered but at the end of the day it is up to people to look after themselves because having other people to look after you especially the government in a lazy situation like this is just crazy. Everyone should have a choice but governments today just force everything onto us and the reason this is the case these days is because of what you say... people are too stupid or lazy. Unless people start demanding their human rights are respected, they will never have a say in anything.

DesperateDan

zenno wrote: »

That's a good point regarding (people are too stupid or lazy to look after their own teeth properly) I agree a lot of people are too lazy and not bothered but at the end of the day it is up to people to look after themselves because having other people to look after you especially the government in a lazy situation like this is just crazy. Everyone should have a choice but governments today just force everything onto us and the reason this is the case these days is because of what you say... people are too stupid or lazy. Unless people start demanding their human rights are respected, they will never have a say in anything.

Your winning me over

My name is URL

DesperateDan wrote: »

Yeah I think that's the crux of it, people disagree on whether or not the government should interfere. I believe they should, the main reason being that people are too stupid or lazy to look after their own teeth properly, so if the government can help, I would say let them.

Reliance upon the state to mollycoddle you isn't going to help with peoples stupidity and laziness. If people fail to properly take care of their teeth then it's their own problem, and medicating the entire water supply isn't going to change that.

There was talk recently about adding Lithium to water supplies in order to reduce suicide figures. Would you agree with that too? It may never happen, but it has been suggested, and studies show that it may help.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1202/1224308474582.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8025454.stm
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/05/15/lithium-water-suicide.html
http://www.imt.ie/opinion/guests/2009/05/lithium-for-water-supply.html

It's not a good idea to tackle a problem faced by a minority of people, by effectively targeting the entire populace.. I see it as a step in the wrong direction personally, and as a bit of a cop-out. I don't really care how effective it is on paper.. if people want to take supplements then allow them to do it on their own accord.. that's my view.

oldrnwisr

zenno wrote: »

People like you make me laugh, did i hit a nerve ?. someone needs a bit of education on this matter. Why do you think some european countries don't use it or have removed it from their water supplies ?. It is because of ethical and medical grounds as a previous poster mentioned as well.

Yes I think you could do with an education on this matter.

Firstly, the reason that quite a few European countries do not fluoridate their water is not because of ethical or medical grounds but rather because the water in those countries is naturally fluoridated due to geography.

Secondly, fluoride is perfectly safe to ingest. The LD50 (lethal dose that would kill 50% of the population) is 3-10g for an average adult. The amount of fluoride ingested per day by someone who drinks their 8 glasses of water is approx. 2mg. By comparison a cup of brewed coffee is about 1% of a lethal dose.

Thirdly, the reason that toothpaste have poison control warnings is not due to the fluoride but rather due to the abrasives, scouring agents, detergents and bleach that the toothpaste contains which may cause problems for the health of a small child.

The research on the benefits to both public health and the economy is well established and the basis of scientific consensus. This is just a brief digest of the relevant literature so you can educate yourself:

A Systematic review of water fluoridation

Costs and Savings Associated With Community Water Fluoridation Programs in Colorado

Community Effectiveness of Public Water Fluoridation in Reducing Children's Dental Disease

Associations Between Exposure to Fluoridated Drinking Water and Dental Caries Experience among Children in Two Australian States

The 2001 CDC Recommendations for Using Fluoride to Prevent and Control Dental Caries in the United States

Effective use of fluorides in the People's Republic of China--a model for WHO Mega Country initiatives

zenno

My name is URL wrote: »

There was talk recently about adding Lithium to water supplies in order to reduce suicide figures. Would you agree with that too? It may never happen, but it has been suggested, and studies show that it may help.

I can't see this happening as it is a major human rights issue. If it does get the go-ahead I can see a que appearing at the door of the european court.

Daithi 1

Key Findings - Tooth Decay Trends in Fluoridated vs. Unfluoridated Countries

In the second half of the 20th century, a steep decline in tooth decay occurred among children in the United States. Proponents of water fluoridation have long claimed that this reduction in tooth decay is primarily the result of adding fluoride to water.
When the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) nominated water fluoridation as one of the top 10 public health achievements of the 20th century, it published a graph (see Figure 1), which showed the reduction of cavities in US children coupled with the increase in water systems that have been fluoridated since the 1960's. The CDC referred to the graph with the statement:

"as a result [of water fluoridation], dental caries declined precipitously during the second half of the 20th century."

However, what the CDC failed to mention is that similar declines in tooth decay have occurred in virtually every western country, most of which do not fluoridate water (see Figure 2).


http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/teeth/caries/who-dmft.aspx

zenno

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Yes I think you could do with an education on this matter.

Firstly, the reason that quite a few European countries do not fluoridate their water is not because of ethical or medical grounds but rather because the water in those countries is naturally fluoridated due to geography.

Secondly, fluoride is perfectly safe to ingest. The LD50 (lethal dose that would kill 50% of the population) is 3-10g for an average adult. The amount of fluoride ingested per day by someone who drinks their 8 glasses of water is approx. 2mg. By comparison a cup of brewed coffee is about 1% of a lethal dose.

Thirdly, the reason that toothpaste have poison control warnings is not due to the fluoride but rather due to the abrasives, scouring agents, detergents and bleach that the toothpaste contains which may cause problems for the health of a small child.

The research on the benefits to both public health and the economy is well established and the basis of scientific consensus. This is just a brief digest of the relevant literature so you can educate yourself:

A Systematic review of water fluoridation

Costs and Savings Associated With Community Water Fluoridation Programs in Colorado

Community Effectiveness of Public Water Fluoridation in Reducing Children's Dental Disease

Associations Between Exposure to Fluoridated Drinking Water and Dental Caries Experience among Children in Two Australian States

The 2001 CDC Recommendations for Using Fluoride to Prevent and Control Dental Caries in the United States

Effective use of fluorides in the People's Republic of China--a model for WHO Mega Country initiatives

Yawn...Yeah, you just go on and believe everything you read from those sites.

Daithi 1

This short documentary looks at the initial theories behind the effectiveness of fluoride and where it originated. It goes on to show the lack of science behind the use of Fluoride and reveals Fluoride as a toxic waste substance that is being pumped into our drinking water. The documentary will conclude by delivering the "hard to swallow truth" of fluoride which pertains to why it is actually used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTfyo0Xz_c

My name is URL

oldrnwisr wrote: »

The research on the benefits to both public health and the economy is well established and the basis of scientific consensus. This is just a brief digest of the relevant literature so you can educate yourself:

A Systematic review of water fluoridation

I like how your first link there is to a site which vehemently opposes the fluoridation of water supplies. Did you do that on purpose, or was it just shoddy Googling? =p