In defence of cyclists

CramCycle

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Unless you live in a town with a population of 10 people, cycling on a footpath is one of the stupidest ideas I've heard in a good while.

+1

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Last time saying this. It was possible for me to pull out. It may have been possible for me to overtake so I can't dispute that.
However in my opinion it was not safe for me to overtake so I sat behind the cyclist.

That was my point too, in fact that is why I said you done the right thing, what you seemed to imply is that if the cyclist was slightly further left it would have somehow become safe, which it wouldn't, unless it was already safe (but thats unlikely or I presume you would have overtaken).

steve9859

Renn wrote: »

Really pathetic attempt at 'fixing' my post. I'm not a motorist (that's what you tried to type, right?) and this is a thread about cyclists. And my experience with cyclists in Dublin city centre.

I thought that much was clear in my post.

Your post was an attack on cyclists, which I didn't disagree with, but instead put into context by outlining that 95% of motorists break the rules and do stupid things as well.

Many apologies that my typing isn't perfect....

Stark

Reoil wrote: »

Because, generally, they travel faster - or have the potential to at least - and make significant noise.

But sure they can just crawl along carefully at walking pace :rolleyes:

rubadub

mcmoustache wrote: »

People who ride bikes on the footpath are chicken-shít ****s.

I used to cycle on the footpath on my old commute for a ~100m stretch on one road, and it was indeed because I was chickensh*t. The road was very narrow and steep so I was quite slow climbing it, on several occasions I was nearly knocked off by cars or jeeps overtaking me leaving very little room, I got knocked by wing mirrors before. The gust from a bus nearly knocked me too. If there was ever a pedestrian on this path I would stop completely and let them pass. I had several gardai see me breaking the law, on foot and in cars, and was never stopped, some gave me a nod seeing what I was doing. My illegal actions aiding the free flow of traffic and kept me safe

-I find most gardai have sense, they are not pedantic idiots like some here seem to be, they understand why the law was introduced, what its genuine purpose is, what it is supposed to prevent -and so they enforce the law sensibly as they see fit, thank Christ we do not have little hitlers like many posters seemingly would like to see. This is why you also have so little enforcement of the jaywalking laws -which is the main road law I see broken, and by a higher % of pedestrians (i.e. I might only see 10 cyclists and 50 pedestrians on my commute, and I might see 5 cyclists vs 40 pedestrians breaking the law).

mcmoustache wrote: »

I think that pedestrians should be immune from prosecution if they decide to knock these limp-willied ****s off. Footpaths are for pedestrians. Bikes take the road. Simple

Charming, what about other rule breakers?, should motorists be mowing down jaywalkers. Cyclists or other pedestrians beating the crap out of pedestrians on cycletracks.

mcmoustache wrote: »

Red light jumpers are self-centred dumb ****. Some of them think that the law doesn't apply to them. Other's think that they won't get prosecuted for it.

on my current commute I break one particular light about 30% of the time, again the garda have seen me do this many many times, its actually right beside a garda station. Again I have gotten nods of approval as they recognize what I am doing and why, never once been stopped. I fear my own safety before the courts, I would rather be paying fines than hospital bills.

Renn wrote: »

This is quite a high percentage but in my experience of cyclists in Dublin city centre approximately 90-95% of them break the rules in some form/do something incredibly stupid.

Renn wrote: »

Not sure why you're bringing motorists in to this since it's a thread about cyclists.

Because people are making out like there is something peculiar about the high % of law breakers they see. This thread is about PEOPLE who happen to be on one mode of transport, so it makes perfect sense to bring up other people using other modes. It's as though people think there is something magical about this contraption with 2 wheels. You go near this device and an otherwise normal usually law-abiding citizen person of average intelligence, suddenly becomes an aggressive criminal who's IQ plummets and has no concern for his own safety or others.

There is nothing magical about it, and when you compare it to other modes of transport, especially feet, you will then realize 90-95% of people in general can do things you deem to be stupid.

hardCopy

Reoil wrote: »

Decryptor wrote: »

What do you propose we use?

The footpaths.

Pedestrians need to use the footpath, cyclists do not

Zab

Renn wrote: »

Really pathetic attempt at 'fixing' my post. I'm not a motorist (that's what you tried to type, right?) and this is a thread about cyclists. And my experience with cyclists in Dublin city centre.

I thought that much was clear in my post.

You're a Dublin city centre pedestrian and you want to share the footpath with bikes? Are you on crack?

Zab

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Last time saying this. It was possible for me to pull out. It may have been possible for me to overtake so I can't dispute that.
However in my opinion it was not safe for me to overtake so I sat behind the cyclist.

Look, it's pretty clear that everybody (including me) thinks you were blocked by the bike for about five minutes or less rather than 10 miles or half an hour. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

That said, I don't know the A roads too well, but I have to disagree with the others saying that it's a rule that being in the centre of the lane can't change whether it's safe to pass you or not. I think there are plenty of roads where that can be the case.

magicbastarder

i'd just love to know what stretch of road it was.

Renn

Zab wrote: »

You're a Dublin city centre pedestrian and you want to share the footpath with bikes? Are you on crack?

No, but you might be if you thought that's what I said.

Renn

Because people are making out like there is something peculiar about the high % of law breakers they see. This thread is about PEOPLE who happen to be on one mode of transport, so it makes perfect sense to bring up other people using other modes.

This thread is about people using bikes, so it makes perfect sense to talk about cyclists. I have pretty bad experiences with motorists in the city centre, but that's for a different thread.

You go near this device and an otherwise normal usually law-abiding citizen person of average intelligence, suddenly becomes an aggressive criminal who's IQ plummets and has no concern for his own safety or others.

Bit harsh with the aggressive criminal bit but yes, this seemingly happens to the 90-95% I see in the city centre.

seamus

Renn wrote: »

Bit harsh with the aggressive criminal bit but yes, this seemingly happens to the 90-95% I see in the city centre.

Cyclists fart too.

In case you miss the point of that statement, what you're basically saying is that cyclists act like everyone else. How is that a surprise? Or relevant?

Renn

Well no, for a quick example, a far greater number of cyclists break red lights compared to motorists. That's hardly a surprise to you now, is it?

Zab

Renn wrote: »

No, but you might be if you thought that's what I said.

Oh, I was mixing up you and Reoil. Apologies.

Renn

Ha, no worries.

Tony EH

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Cyclists are fine when they obey the rules of the road. Or, y'know, cycle in SINGLE FILE when there's more than one of them....Height of ignorance :mad:

It's legal to cycle two abreast.

Maybe it's you who need to learn the "rules of the road".

opti0nal

Renn wrote: »

Well no, for a quick example, a far greater number of cyclists break red lights compared to motorists.

78% of motorists break speed limits.

aaronjumper

seamus wrote: »

Cyclists fart too.

Does it make them go faster?

Rasheed

Tony EH wrote: »

It's legal to cycle two abreast.

Maybe it's you who need to learn the "rules of the road".

I never knew this! Supposing you are cycling along and cars are building up behind you, are you legally obliged to pull over and let them pass like tractor drivers are?

rubadub

Renn wrote: »

This thread is about people using bikes, so it makes perfect sense to talk about cyclists. I have pretty bad experiences with motorists in the city centre, but that's for a different thread.

I think your experiences certainly are relevant in this thread, a thread about people using one mode of transport, why not bring up others. This reminds me of all these legalise cannabis threads where people refuse to discuss the elephant in the room -alcohol being legal, since they know they look hypocritical, a cheap cop-out on a fair argument.

Many people have this irrational blinkered view about cyclists, as though they are not the same species as themselves, like its a disease or mental illness or something that causes this crazed behaviour. This makes sense since many do not cycle, so they are comfortable attacking them as they are not "one of their own". Most people will view pedestrians and motorists as "one of their own", and so are less likely to talk about wilfully injuring them or wishing harm on them etc.

These days its not socially acceptable to be racist, sexist etc, so people have pent up anger they will unleash on some group they deem acceptable.

Renn wrote: »

Well no, for a quick example, a far greater number of cyclists break red lights compared to motorists. That's hardly a surprise to you now, is it?

It is not a surprise at all, makes perfect sense that the average person on a bike will break lights more than the average person in a car.

And on foot the average person is more likely to break lights than when cycling. I know I do, I use all 3 forms of transport. The gardai seem to enforce the law in this order too, as I would expect. Only an idiot would not realise why this is the case, or a pedant feigning ignorance might claim they don't know.

Cool Mo D

Renn wrote: »

Well no, for a quick example, a far greater number of cyclists break red lights compared to motorists. That's hardly a surprise to you now, is it?

I doubt it. At pretty much every red light, there will be a car or two who go through it when its turning red. And if you started ticketing every car that blocks a junction or stops forward of the advance stop line you'd have half the driving population off the road in a week.

Dyr

rubadub wrote: »

I think your experiences certainly are relevant in this thread, a thread about people using one mode of transport, why not bring up others. This reminds me of all these legalise cannabis threads where people refuse to discuss the elephant in the room -alcohol being legal, since they know they look hypocritical, a cheap cop-out on a fair argument.

Many people have this irrational blinkered view about cyclists, as though they are not the same species as themselves, like its a disease or mental illness or something that causes this crazed behaviour. This makes sense since many do not cycle, so they are comfortable attacking them as they are not "one of their own". Most people will view pedestrians and motorists as "one of their own", and so are less likely to talk about wilfully injuring them or wishing harm on them etc.

These days its not socially acceptable to be racist, sexist etc, so people have pent up anger they will unleash on some group they deem acceptable.

It is not a surprise at all, makes perfect sense that the average person on a bike will break lights more than the average person in a car.

And on foot the average person is more likely to break lights than when cycling. I know I do, I use all 3 forms of transport. The gardai seem to enforce the law in this order too, as I would expect. Only an idiot would not realise why this is the case, or a pedant feigning ignorance might claim they don't know.

I think you'll find the problem is not that people think that cyclists are not "one of their own" but that many, many cyclists act like complete dicks, break the law, and generally contribute to the sh**tiness factor of dublin city centre. Far more so than any other road user.

rubadub

Bambi wrote: »

I think you'll find the problem is not that people think that cyclists are not "one of their own" but that many, many cyclists act like complete dicks, break the law, and generally contribute to the sh**tiness factor of dublin city centre. Far more so than any other road user.

Thank you for illustrating my point so well.

Unless you don't class pedestrians as road users, which they are of course.

Tony EH

Rasheed wrote: »

I never knew this! Supposing you are cycling along and cars are building up behind you, are you legally obliged to pull over and let them pass like tractor drivers are?

No. But it makes logical sense to do so on behalf of the cyclist. Unlike tractor drivers, the aren't protected by two big ass wheels and a metal cabin.

Dyr

rubadub wrote: »

Thank you for illustrating my point so well.

Unless you don't class pedestrians as road users, which they are of course.

a) Pedestrian is the default setting for humans, unlike forms of transport, people don't use the roads as a means of commuting, they use the pavement. They navigate across roads because they have no choice in the matter, so no they aren't road "users". When people are jogging to work via the bus lanes you might have some valid form of comparison, until then...

b) if you stuck a camera on most of the busiest junctions and streets in dublin, I would wager you that the most dangerous and ignorant behaviour will come overwhelmingly from the two wheeled fraternity.

steve9859

Bambi wrote: »

b) if you stuck a camera on most of the busiest junctions and streets in dublin, I would wager you that the most dangerous and ignorant behaviour will come overwhelmingly from the two wheeled fraternity.

I wish they would....and then ticket by post all those cars that run the red.

Christ....going round in circles here....

Rasheed

Rasheed wrote: »

I never knew this! Supposing you are cycling along and cars are building up behind you, are you legally obliged to pull over and let them pass like tractor drivers are?

Have you ever actually read the rules of the road or do you just invent your own as you go along?

opti0nal

Bambi wrote: »

b) if you stuck a camera on most of the busiest junctions and streets in dublin, I would wager you that the most dangerous and ignorant behaviour will come overwhelmingly from the two wheeled fraternity.

Highly unlikely: it is the four-wheeled variety that is involved in the most horrifying cases of death and injury. As mentioned earlier, 78% of motorists break the speed limit. Many don't stop for amber traffic lights.

And then there's this from today's Irish Times:

The number of motorists using their mobile phones while driving is “endemic” but the gardaí are not forcing greater compliance, an Oireachtas Committee was told today.
The Irish Insurance Federation corporate affairs director Niall Doyle said the number of penalty points given out for talking on a mobile phone were “remarkably similar”in recent years with 33,000 offences in 2009 and projections for the same amount this year.....

magicbastarder

opti0nal wrote: »

78% of motorists break speed limits.

that low?

Dyr

opti0nal wrote: »

Highly unlikely: it is the four-wheeled variety that is involved in the most horrifying cases of death and injury.

try really hard and spot the difference between what you think i posted and what I actually posted

I would wager you that the most dangerous and ignorant behaviour will come overwhelmingly from the two wheeled fraternity.

Renn

Once again, nice to see people forgetting that this is a thread about cyclists and not something else.

Stark

Renn wrote: »

Once again, nice to see people forgetting that this is a thread about cyclists and not something else.

Well the thread title is "in defence of cyclists", not "jump in with typical uneducated rant about cyclists".

ghostchant

I suppose it's quite fitting that the arguments in this thread are cyclical and everyone's going round and round...

opti0nal

Bambi wrote: »

try really hard and spot the difference between what you think i posted and what I actually posted

You've never seen drivers block pedestrian crossings, fail to yield to pedestrians when turning or bully people when the signals go to flashing amber? You've never seen wheelchair users try to squeeze past cars parked on footpaths? People maimed because a driver was too busy on his phone to see them?

Look again.

Renn

Stark wrote: »

Well the thread title is "in defence of cyclists", not "jump in with typical uneducated rant about cyclists".

My own experience with cyclists is, eh, uneducated? So I'm seeing things now?

Fwiw, I saw a car breaking a red light on the walk home this evening. But now you have me doubting myself...

Stark

Renn wrote: »

My own experience with cyclists is, eh, uneducated? So I'm seeing things now?

Fwiw, I saw a car breaking a red light on the walk home this evening. But now you have me doubting myself...

Brilliant, now be a good boy and go litter the forums with generalisations about motorists.

Renn

Stark wrote: »

Brilliant, now be a good boy and go litter the forums with generalisations about motorists.

Lolz. Finding it hard to understand that my comments are from my own experience - so when I stated that 90-95% figure it was actually from, you know, what I've encountered?

Rasheed

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you ever actually read the rules of the road or do you just invent your own as you go along?

Why? What have I said that was wrong?

SerialComplaint

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Last time saying this. It was possible for me to pull out. It may have been possible for me to overtake so I can't dispute that.
However in my opinion it was not safe for me to overtake so I sat behind the cyclist.

Last time asking this. What road did this happen on?

Dyr

opti0nal wrote: »

You've never seen drivers block pedestrian crossings, fail to yield to pedestrians when turning or bully people when the signals go to flashing amber? You've never seen wheelchair users try to squeeze past cars parked on footpaths? People maimed because a driver was too busy on his phone to see them?

Look again.

I haven't seen any of those in the last week. Actually I've never seen a few of them. On the other hand: cyclists blocking pedestrian crossings, cyclists ignoring lights, cyclists using footpaths as their own private road, cyclists locking bikes on tight, busy footpaths. Every. Single. Day.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

I haven't seen any of those in the last week. Actually I've never seen a few of them. On the other hand: cyclists blocking pedestrian crossings, cyclists ignoring lights, cyclists using footpaths as their own private road, cyclists locking bikes on tight, busy footpaths. Every. Single. Day.

2 possibilities here.

A: Recall bias.

B: Bullsh!t

fasttalkerchat

Zab wrote: »

Look, it's pretty clear that everybody (including me) thinks you were blocked by the bike for about five minutes or less rather than 10 miles or half an hour. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

That said, I don't know the A roads too well, but I have to disagree with the others saying that it's a rule that being in the centre of the lane can't change whether it's safe to pass you or not. I think there are plenty of roads where that can be the case.

I exaggerated how long it was for but the point was that he wouldn't stop or even stay to one side to let cars pass.

fasttalkerchat

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I exaggerated how long it was for but the point was that he wouldn't stop or even stay to one side to let cars pass.

You've been caught blatantly lying. At this point there's no real reason to believe that the incident ever even happened.

Rasheed

Deleted User wrote: »

You've been caught blatantly lying. At this point there's no real reason to believe that the incident ever even happened.

James, I'm still a bit confused as to why you asked if I make up my own set of rules for the road?

Rasheed

Rasheed wrote: »

James, I'm still a bit confused as to why you asked if I make up my own set of rules for the road?

Because you seem to be of the belief that tractors and cyclist are somehow legally obliged to pull over to let people past. Please point out to me the relevant piece of legislation in the road traffic acts that says this.

You seem to confuse your own misguided opinions with the law.

Rasheed

Deleted User wrote: »

Because you seem to be of the belief that tractors and cyclist are somehow legally obliged to pull over to let people past. Please point out to me the relevant piece of legislation in the road traffic acts that says this.

You seem to confuse your own misguided opinions with the law.

Tractors are obliged, I was merely curious if cyclists were too as they are also slow moving.

I work with a farming contracting business, Summer 2011, two lads with wrappers got stopped by the guards. They had continued on a main road, had 10+ cars behind them, did not make full use of the hard shoulder and were done for driving without reasonable consideration for other drivers.

opti0nal

Rasheed wrote: »

Tractors are obliged, I was merely curious if cyclists were too as they are also slow moving.

I work with a farming contracting business, Summer 2011, two lads with wrappers got stopped by the guards. They had continued on a main road, had 10+ cars behind them, did not make full use of the hard shoulder and were done for driving without reasonable consideration for other drivers.

It would depend on the opinion of a garda and ultimately, a judge. Quite a flexible law, it could equally apply to much of what car drivers consider to be normal behaviour.

fasttalkerchat

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Last time asking this. What road did this happen on?

A29 Drumcroon Road. What difference does that make?

hardCopy

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Zab wrote: »

Look, it's pretty clear that everybody (including me) thinks you were blocked by the bike for about five minutes or less rather than 10 miles or half an hour. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

That said, I don't know the A roads too well, but I have to disagree with the others saying that it's a rule that being in the centre of the lane can't change whether it's safe to pass you or not. I think there are plenty of roads where that can be the case.

I exaggerated how long it was for but the point was that he wouldn't stop or even stay to one side to let cars pass.

Even after all this discussion, you still can't understand what happened.

monkeysnapper

jsn.peters wrote: »

You can get bad cyclists & bad drivers, both annoy me

exactly!! i hate some cyclists yet i cycle a lot myself, i see fools on a daily basis and god dam they come in all forms.

uck51js9zml2yt

Did I miss the part about cyclists going around at night in dark clothes ,no lights and still expecting to be seen by motorists.
EVery time I drive at night I at night I get at least one.