In defence of cyclists

Fizzlesque

Fizzlesque wrote: »

Indeed we are.

Doesn't stop us from being the pigeons of the transport world, all the same. I like that analogy, for some currently unknown reason.

Are you sure? :pac:

Fizzlesque

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure? :pac:

To be able to crap all over offensive motorists' cars - the analogy that keeps on giving :P

flanders1979

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure? :pac:

that was from dogging. leave the pigeons alone

Kur4mA

Speaking of which, here's a vid of my girlfriends cousin getting a smack of a truck. Dublin is lethal for cyclists. The lack of awareness shown by a lot of drivers is shocking.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=373581656016895

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXao_nRBry4

minterno

MickySticks wrote: »

If they want to be treated with respect then stop cycling in the middle of the road and get out of the fucking way!

I think you mean the middle of the lane,which they are entitled to use

quietsailor

minterno wrote: »

I think you mean the middle of the lane,which they are entitled to use

Only if they are turning right? From my recollection of the rules of the road "Keep left at all times"

44leto

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXao_nRBry4

What a jobsworth dickhead.

I must go around with a video camera and ask ALL us irish why we jaywalk.

44leto

How about cyclists verse the Irish weather thread.

I am trying to get back into cycling to work but the weather seems to be against me.

Everytime I unlock my bike it rains, some drought stricken regions of the world should avail of this witchcraft.

Seriously I have been looking for good wet gear, I want it to be light, fully waterproof and not just shower proof and breathable in that it wont sweat you to much. I am willing to pay up to 200 for the right stuff, Has anyone any pointers.?

44leto

44leto wrote: »

How about cyclists verse the Irish weather thread.

I am trying to get back into cycling to work but the weather seems to be against me.

Everytime I unlock my bike it rains, some drought stricken regions of the world should avail of this witchcraft.

Seriously I have been looking for good wet gear, I want it to be light, fully waterproof and not just shower proof and breathable in that it wont sweat you to much. I am willing to pay up to 200 for the right stuff, Has anyone any pointers.?

Have a browse around here.

Meauldsegosha

44leto wrote: »

Everytime I unlock my bike it rains, some drought stricken regions of the world should avail of this witchcraft.

So it's your fault we're having all this bad weather. Damn you 44leto, damn you 😠

44leto

Deleted User wrote: »

Have a browse around here.

Excellent thankyou there has to be something there.

Fizzlesque

44leto wrote: »

How about cyclists verse the Irish weather thread.

I am trying to get back into cycling to work but the weather seems to be against me.

Everytime I unlock my bike it rains, some drought stricken regions of the world should avail of this witchcraft.

It has been a bit rainy lately, but it has also been gorgeous at times too. In general, taken over a long term, I find I don't need to wear my rain gear all that often. Maybe I'm just lucky and get all my cycling done before you unlock your bike

Great that you're wanting/trying to get back in to cycling - it's a great way to travel. I'd much rather cycle to work on a rainy morning than take the bus. Ugh - busy buses on rainy mornings.

44leto

Fizzlesque wrote: »

It has been a bit rainy lately, but it has also been gorgeous at times too. In general, taken over a long term, I find I don't need to wear my rain gear all that often. Maybe I'm just lucky and get all my cycling done before you unlock your bike

Great that you're wanting/trying to get back in to cycling - it's a great way to travel. I'd much rather cycle to work on a rainy morning than take the bus. Ugh - busy buses on rainy mornings.

I do, I park up the car about this time every year and commute by bike. I love it and it saves me a fortune, hence why I am willing to spend big on rain gear.

And even in the winter I sometimes cycle to work, but if not I will still get out on the bike. I find I miss it when I haven't.

Sunday mornings along the coast road is unbeatable.

awec

I'm also trying to commute by bike at the moment, and whilst I can shower etc in work there is only so much I can fit into a backpack! Clothes, towels, toiletries and then work equipment into one backpack does not go.

So if it's rainy, I will drive. if it's sunny, I'll cycle. Don't care if it's raining coming home obviously.

I just walked to the shop. You could cycle in that weather out there now if you really wanted to but I'd personally get no enjoyment.

awec

awec wrote: »

I'm also trying to commute by bike at the moment, and whilst I can shower etc in work there is only so much I can fit into a backpack! Clothes, towels, toiletries and then work equipment into one backpack does not go.

So if it's rainy, I will drive. if it's sunny, I'll cycle. Don't care if it's raining coming home obviously.

Get yourself a rear rack and some pannier bags. Way more comfortable as you don't have the weight of the bag pulling on your shoulders, you can carry more stuff and your back doesn't get sweaty.

44leto

awec wrote: »

I'm also trying to commute by bike at the moment, and whilst I can shower etc in work there is only so much I can fit into a backpack! Clothes, towels, toiletries and then work equipment into one backpack does not go.

So if it's rainy, I will drive. if it's sunny, I'll cycle. Don't care if it's raining coming home obviously.

I just walked to the shop. You could cycle in that weather out there now if you really wanted to but I'd personally get no enjoyment.

I solved that problem by storing my stuff in my work locker and leaving it there. I even got 2 locks and left one in work.

So I travel lightly.

Darkglasses

After a few trips you do get used to being an all-weather cyclist.

Have a look here for sound advice: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056620454

Fizzlesque

44leto wrote: »

And even in the winter I sometimes cycle to work, but if not I will still get out on the bike. I find I miss it when I haven't.

Sunday mornings along the coast road is unbeatable.

Snap! I miss cycling if I haven't been on the bike much as well, and love a sunny Sunday morning cycle along a coast road.

I haven't been out in this current batch of super windy and wet weather we've been having. I don't mind the rain, but I hate the wind.

44leto

Fizzlesque wrote: »

Snap! I miss cycling if I haven't been on the bike much as well, and love a sunny Sunday morning cycle along a coast road.

I haven't been out in this current batch of super windy and wet weather we've been having. I don't mind the rain, but I hate the wind.

I don't mind the wind I regard it as a challenge and an extra training session, but the rain and then the chill I hate. It takes the pleasure out of it. But I will pick up some good rain gear and see can I commute all year round this time.

A colleague does and we have roughly the same commute. So I imagine its a matter of getting use to it.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Get yourself a rear rack and some pannier bags. Way more comfortable as you don't have the weight of the bag pulling on your shoulders, you can carry more stuff and your back doesn't get sweaty.

I have a road bike that I commute on but I use it for cycling in the evenings / weekends too when I carry virtually no gear.

So what I'd be after is a rear rack that can easily come off and on but I'm guessing that'd be going against the idea of them being secure on the bike.

I wouldn't want to have to get the toolkit out every time i want to take it off / put it back on.

Fizzlesque

awec wrote: »

I have a road bike that I commute on but I use it for cycling in the evenings / weekends too when I carry virtually no gear.

So what I'd be after is a rear rack that can easily come off and on but I'm guessing that'd be going against the idea of them being secure on the bike.

I wouldn't want to have to get the toolkit out every time i want to take it off / put it back on.

I have side panniers that are draped across the back carrier and held on at the edges of the back carrier with little Velcro strips that latch onto each other. Easy to remove and replace. They're fierce ugly things on the bike (I think) so I only have them there when I need to use them. Maybe they're also too ugly to be stolen while the bike's parked up. :cool:

Fizzlesque

44leto wrote: »

A colleague does and we have roughly the same commute. So I imagine its a matter of getting use to it.

Definitely a matter of getting used to it. After a while, it'll be just like riding a bike

awec

awec wrote: »

I have a road bike that I commute on but I use it for cycling in the evenings / weekends too when I carry virtually no gear.

So what I'd be after is a rear rack that can easily come off and on but I'm guessing that'd be going against the idea of them being secure on the bike.

I wouldn't want to have to get the toolkit out every time i want to take it off / put it back on.

Maybe a saddlebag would fit the bill. Something like this.

awec

Fizzlesque wrote: »

I have side panniers that are draped across the back carrier and held on at the edges of the back carrier with little Velcro strips that latch onto each other. Easy to remove and replace. They're fierce ugly things on the bike (I think) so I only have them there when I need to use them. Maybe they're also too ugly to be stolen while the bike's parked up. :cool:

Ah I meant the rack itself, I agree with them being ugly on the bike hence wanting to take it off when I don't need it!

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe a saddlebag would fit the bill. Something like this.

Good shout that actually! Will look into it!

Fizzlesque

awec wrote: »

Ah I meant the rack itself, I agree with them being ugly on the bike hence wanting to take it off when I don't need it!

Ah, I see. No rack at the back at all. Yeah, that would cause a carrying stuff conundrum alright.

Stiffler2

Ares wrote: »

Cyclists in Ireland often get treated like absolute dirt by some vehicle drivers on Irish roads.

I've been witness to cyclists suffering intimidation who were forced off the road by a maniac car driver.

Cycle lanes in Ireland are nothing short of a joke, often going through car parking spaces and with many, many obstructions.

Then there is the whole "Hurr Durr, I pay road tax, Hurr Durr!" line of thinking. That should say spasticated line of thinking. No such thing as road tax, its motor emissons tax which cyclists of course don't have to pay due to the self propelling nature of bicycles.

A lot of motorists take absolutely no precautions towards cyclists and fail to treat a fellow road user as they would someone driving a car.

I've seen some motorists get ever so slightly delayed from following a bike and fly off a fit of rage, and harassing the cyclist, running close to them and generally behaving in an intimadatory manner.

Anyway its high time cyclists were treated with a bit of respect and understanding in Ireland.

You can only cycle on roads because us drivers paid for them with our road tax. If we didn't pay road tax you would be cycling across fields so respect your car drivers.

At the end of the day if a cyclist hits my car I will probably have to get a new panel and paint job however the cyclist will more than likely die so IMO it's more up to the cyclist to watch out than the driver the same way I give wide berths to larger vehicles than me like trucks because they can cause me serious damage.

Cycle lanes are there for a reason so use them and don't be cycling on roads, it's just stupid.

What's with cyclists sometimes cycling in double tandem side by side, this really pi$$es me off, drive as close to them as possible, horn full blast, side window down "SINGLE FILE MOTHER *****ERS"

stovelid

Plenty of cunts on the road whether on bikes or in cars.

I do wish that cycliists wouldn't adopt the moral high ground so much. Your commuting lifestyle choice doesn't make you immune to the rules of the road, excuse you from showing courtesy to other road users or make you any less dependant on motor transport in other areas of your life than the rest of us.

If all road users just treated each other with respect, the roads would be a calmer, safer and less ignorant place.

awec

Stiffler2 wrote: »

You can only cycle on roads because us drivers paid for them with our road tax. If we didn't pay road tax you would be cycling across fields so respect your car drivers.

At the end of the day if a cyclist hits my car I will probably have to get a new panel and paint job however the cyclist will more than likely die so IMO it's more up to the cyclist to watch out than the driver the same way I give wide berths to larger vehicles than me like trucks because they can cause me serious damage.

Cycle lanes are there for a reason so use them and don't be cycling on roads, it's just stupid.

What's with cyclists sometimes cycling in double tandem side by side, this really pi$$es me off, drive as close to them as possible, horn full blast, side window down "SINGLE FILE MOTHER *****ERS"

No we didn't.

44leto

Stiffler2 wrote: »

You can only cycle on roads because us drivers paid for them with our road tax. If we didn't pay road tax you would be cycling across fields so respect your car drivers.

At the end of the day if a cyclist hits my car I will probably have to get a new panel and paint job however the cyclist will more than likely die so IMO it's more up to the cyclist to watch out than the driver the same way I give wide berths to larger vehicles than me like trucks because they can cause me serious damage.

Cycle lanes are there for a reason so use them and don't be cycling on roads, it's just stupid.

What's with cyclists sometimes cycling in double tandem side by side, this really pi$$es me off, drive as close to them as possible, horn full blast, side window down "SINGLE FILE MOTHER *****ERS"

You pay motor tax, not road tax and that goes into a central taxation fun. I don't pay cigarette tax, or drinking tax, or quoting stupid umbrage of posts tax.

And you give wide berth to trucks and probably lamp-posts that does show some intelligence and if you do kill a cyclist you do not just say "well he was only a cyclist" and drive off, you get into a lot of trouble, you know you are not allowed to.

And cyclelanes are on the roads I do hope you noticed that, you really shouldn't be driving...........

stovelid

Stiffler2 wrote: »

What's with cyclists sometimes cycling in double tandem side by side, this really pi$$es me off, drive as close to them as possible, horn full blast, side window down "SINGLE FILE MOTHER *****ERS"

It's completely fucking ignorant.

Most cyclists just hold up their hands and say it's not illegal as if that excuses discourtesy to other road users.

Of course, if they themselves were in a car, say, taking a kid to hospital or trying to get to work, and a couple of lycra-clad spastics were having a little chat three-abreast on the road, they'd probably be losing it.

Briain O Loinsigh

It's funny how it's the motorists who get agressive about things ,they must need to get out more :pac:

nomdeboardie

Stiffler2 wrote: »

You can only cycle on roads because us drivers paid for them with our road tax. If we didn't pay road tax you would be cycling across fields so respect your car drivers.

(1) There's no such as thing as "ROAD tax", and roads are funded by the overall pot of tax revenue
(2) Cyclists can't pay MOTOR tax on their bikes
(3) Many, if not most, cyclists actually do pay motor tax, as it happens -on their motor vehicles...
(4) ...So, if anything, they should be getting refunds on said tax in proportion to the time they're using their bikes in preference to motor vehicles and thus causing less wear on the roads

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Cycle lanes are there for a reason so use them and don't be cycling on roads, it's just stupid.

It would indeed be stupid to ignore good cycle lanes. Problem is, most are in one way or another, rather stupid.

OldGoat

I don't have a problem with cyclists, I have a problem with foolish cyclists.
I don't have a problem with drivers, I have a problem with foolish drivers.
I don't have a problem with pedestrians, I have a problem with foolish pedestrians.

It would appear that I don't suffer fools.

danniemcq

Bit late to this at this stage but throwing my 2 cents in,

Lived in Galway for a few years and had bike, only ever had one problem the whole time when i was tucked in close to the footpath and a lorry overtook me but didn't leave enough room. Long story short the entire back storage part of a lorry hit me on the shoulder and not just once but the whole length of it each time hitting me harder and harder as the truck seemed to move in left more and more. As the footpath was to high to try and hop up onto there was nothing i could do but try and fall footpath side. Didn't make it in time and the last bit of the truck knocked me head over heals and I was lucky as f*ck to land up on the footpath.

No idea who owned the truck (it was blue) and the little old lady who seen it happen didn't catch it either. She was shocked that I was able to move but i did fracture my shoulder.

I moved back to Donegal and within 6 months i was sprawled on the ground more times than i could count. I had people just pull out in front of me swing, open car doors, not look at roundabouts everything! There are no cycle paths in Letterkenny (biggest town in donwgal) except for one thats about 2km outta town and leads from nowhere to nowhere. So one of the issues could be drivers aren't used to cyclists?

now i know people will say wear high vis clothing but I do! i'm 6ft 2, with reflective trousers, blue reflective stripped jacket, bright blue helmet and lights front and back. I only started this when i came back up here.

I know some drivers get pissed off at cyclists who skip red lights or just have no regard for personal safety and not all drivers are c*nts but what i have found is that because cyclists will come off a lot worse if we hit/get hit by a car we are more cautious. Drivers seem to forget that we aren't in a crumple zone protected bubble.

And if you want an example that has nothing to do with cyclists how many times have you seen someone pick their nose in a car, go mental to music etc? They are in their bubble and don't pay attention to the outside forgetting that people can still see them.

wow thats quite a ramble and i'm sure i'll have pissed someone off but i'm pretty sure there is a point in there somewhere! Blame the painkillers!

The Radiator

The poor lads

facemelter

Stiffler2 wrote: »

You can only cycle on roads because us drivers paid for them with our road tax. If we didn't pay road tax you would be cycling across fields so respect your car drivers.

At the end of the day if a cyclist hits my car I will probably have to get a new panel and paint job however the cyclist will more than likely die so IMO it's more up to the cyclist to watch out than the driver the same way I give wide berths to larger vehicles than me like trucks because they can cause me serious damage.

Cycle lanes are there for a reason so use them and don't be cycling on roads, it's just stupid.

What's with cyclists sometimes cycling in double tandem side by side, this really pi$$es me off, drive as close to them as possible, horn full blast, side window down "SINGLE FILE MOTHER *****ERS"

its not a road tax its a motor emission tax. Yes cyclists should watch out for other road users. but that attitude of "im bigger so get out of my way "is a bullies attitude. and behind the wheel is no place for someone who is going to use their car as a tool for bullying people. if you had to spend 20 mins cycling in a cycle lane that is in an awful state. you will understand why cyclists chose to cycle on roads. :rolleyes:

and to ask for respect while claiming to scream at cyclists who get in your way is madness. I will not respect any one , who tries to bully me. If you want respect from someone , show it to them first.

OldNotWIse

Turtyturd wrote: »

The hierarchy of road users is

Pedestrians
|
|
Drivers
|
|
|
|
Dublin Bus Drivers
|
|
|
|
|
Taxi Drivers
|
Cyclists

The fact that cyclists are below bus drivers and taxi drivers says it all.

And yet, I've lost count of how many times I've been on a bus stuck behind some cyclist who insists on cycling at least 6 feet out from the kerb.

danniemcq

stovelid wrote: »

It's completely fucking ignorant.

Most cyclists just hold up their hands and say it's not illegal as if that excuses discourtesy to other road users.

Of course, if they themselves were in a car, say, taking a kid to hospital or trying to get to work, and a couple of lycra-clad spastics were having a little chat three-abreast on the road, they'd probably be losing it.

3 a breast? like the same width as a car....

you know that you can't drive through a car and if you can't overtake because of road conditions or what not that it might be to dangerous for you to overtake one? What if you suddenly had to pull in to the left again?

Would you give out to the lollypop lady too if she was bringing children across the road? surely that would delay you too, oh and traffic lights, stop signs, yeild signs, roadworks...?

stovelid

danniemcq wrote: »

but what i have found is that because cyclists will come off a lot worse if we hit/get hit by a car we are more cautious.

My experience as a driver would often (if not always) suggest otherwise). A lot of cyclists are pretty aggresive and territorial about the road. I can partially understand this now as I cycled for years and suffered at the hands of stupid drivers and had an us and them attitude too. Nowadays, however, I see the other side of it with so many cyclists ignoring road rules and showing a lack of respect to others.

I think what would help is cyclists were made more accountable (like drivers) for breaking road rules and maybe even make things like not cycling single-file an offence. Maybe a points system for cyclists.

And also address the crap state of cycle paths which goes without saying.

Nothingbetter2d

Turtyturd wrote: »

The hierarchy of road users is

Pedestrians
|
|
Drivers
|
|
|
|
Dublin Bus Drivers
|
|
|
|
|
Taxi Drivers
|
Tractor Drivers
|
|
Cars/Vans with Caravans in tow
|
Cyclists

The fact that cyclists are below bus drivers and taxi drivers says it all.

FYP

Chips Lovell

Stiffler2 wrote: »

What's with cyclists sometimes cycling in double tandem side by side, this really pi$$es me off, drive as close to them as possible, horn full blast, side window down "SINGLE FILE MOTHER *****ERS"

What do you hope to achieve with that? Aside from convincing the cyclists in question that you're just another driver who's ignorant of road traffic law.

stovelid wrote: »

Most cyclists just hold up their hands and say it's not illegal as if that excuses discourtesy to other road users.

OK, I'll bite. Lets leave the safety element of cycling two abreast aside for a minute. Motorists can and do hold up cyclists by driving in a legal manner, i.e. driving too close to the kerb. Employing your logic, cyclists have a right to judge this behaviour ignorant and discourteous, but really its a consequence of having to share the road with other people.

stovelid

danniemcq wrote: »

3 a breast? like the same width as a car....

you know that you can't drive through a car and if you can't overtake because of road conditions or what not that it might be to dangerous for you to overtake one? What if you suddenly had to pull in to the left again?

You are being deliberately wilful here.

You can usually pass out a cyclist travelling single file easily enough without crossing the line. Two-three makes it incumbent to overtake when you shouldn't have to. Saying you shouldn't be overtaking is fine but 2-3 people are forcing traffic behind them to travel at about a quarter of the speed limit just so they can have a chat.

It's not illegal but it's just bad manners and usually motivated again by usual bellicose them and us attitude between motorists and cyclists that makes using the road worse for everybody.

stovelid

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

OK, I'll bite. Lets leave the safety element of cycling two abreast aside for a minute. Motorists can and do hold up cyclists by driving in a legal manner, i.e. driving too close to the kerb. Employing your logic, cyclists have a right to judge this behaviour ignorant and discourteous, but really its a consequence of having to share the road with other people.

Why ado you have to say 'bite'? I'm not trolling you.

As somebody that cycled for years, It's a pity that motorists and cyclists have to share the road due to a lack of decent cycle paths.

But I still don't think holding up traffic for miles should be allowed. And outside of their lifestyle choice, the overwhelming majority of cyclists do (or will in future) dirve themselves or rely on motor transport in many ways: shop or fule deliveries, ambulances, public transport etc so yes, the needs of motorists should be prioritised on the road unfortunately. Not in the safety sense but in the sense that road are primarily for motor vehicles.

44leto

stovelid wrote: »

You are being deliberately wilful here.

You can usually pass out a cyclist travelling single file easily enough without crossing the line. Two-three makes it incumbent to overtake when you shouldn't have to. Saying you shouldn't be overtaking is fine but 2-3 people are forcing traffic behind them to travel at about a quarter of the speed limit just so they can have a chat.

It's not illegal but it's just bad manners and usually motivated again by usual bellicose them and us attitude between motorists and cyclists that makes using the road worse for everybody.

As a motorist and a cyclist I concede that point, it is not illegal but it is bad manners. When a slow moving tractor is on the road even they drive close to the kerb in consideration to other road users.

I don't do it myself in recognition of that, also as a driver I know I am putting myself in more peril cycling, as most car accidents are caused when overtaking.

stovelid

44leto wrote: »

I don't do it myself in recognition of that, also as a driver I know I am putting myself in more peril cycling, as most car accidents are caused when overtaking.

This.

It will make some nutcase try a risky overtake.

Same thing when some motorists slow down to annoy tail-gaters.

Chips Lovell

stovelid wrote: »

Why ado you have to say 'bite'? I'm not trolling you.

As somebody that cycled for years, It's a pity that motorists and cyclists have to share the road due to a lack of decent cycle paths.

But I still don't think holding up traffic for miles should be allowed. And outside of their lifestyle choice, the overwhelming majority of cyclists do (or will in future) dirve themselves or rely on motor transport in many ways: shop or fule deliveries, ambulances, public transport etc so yes, the needs of motorists should be prioritised on the road unfortunately. Not in the safety sense but in the sense that road are primarily for motor vehicles.

Motorists and cyclists will always have to share the roads to a large extent. It is impossible and impractical to build and entire parallel cycling infrastructure.

What some motorists fail to appreciate is that cycling two abreast is often the most efficient way of taking up road space. It leads to a compact group of cyclists that, when done correctly, are easier to overtake. A good group of cyclists will single out, when appropriate, to let traffic by if it's building up behind them, but arguing that cyclists should never be allowed cycle two abreast is asking for trouble and will encourage more dangerous overtaking.

danniemcq

stovelid wrote: »

My experience as a driver would often (if not always) suggest otherwise). A lot of cyclists are pretty aggresive and territorial about the road. I can partially understand this now as I cycled for years and suffered at the hands of stupid drivers and had an us and them attitude too. Nowadays, however, I see the other side of it with so many cyclists ignoring road rules and showing a lack of respect to others.

I think what would help is cyclists were made more accountable (like drivers) for breaking road rules and maybe even make things like not cycling single-file an offence. Maybe a points system for cyclists.

And also address the crap state of cycle paths which goes without saying.

forget addressing the crap state, what about just having more? as i said in a previous post the only cycle path in Donegals biggest town is on a road nowhere near the center of town and leads you further away from town!

I get your point though about agressive cyclists i will admit i have got worked up in the past but sometimes you have to, wind against you battering down with rain you grit your teeth and push harder and this will in effect raise your agrssion level. That or if you are cut off a few times you start getting pissed off!

One explanation could be that drivers will get annoyed if they are cut off by other drivers but this rarely happens compared to cyclists where it happens (me) at least once every day or two.

And when you say rules of the road i do agree that there should be some system in place but on my way home there is a part of the road thats one way. If i was to follow the law i would have to deal with a road layout that means crossing the road to the other lane (which cars have an issue with themselves not the drivers fault just a useless layout) and a roundabout where i have seen the sky more times than i care to ever want. and IF i got through those two then i would be on a nice looping road where again cars continue to switch lanes and with 4 (i think) entrances to the shopping complex i again get cut off on a regular basis.

To avoid this i cycle maybe 20m down the one way road (only when the lights at the end of it are red so cars are all stopped or the road is empty) to cut through a side road.

I know its not legal but its my only option as all other ways have their own perils, Main street with the cars opening doors and turning off and the less said about the hill behind the hospital the better

44leto

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Motorists and cyclists will always have to share the roads to a large extent. It is impossible and impractical to build and entire parallel cycling infrastructure.

What some motorists fail to appreciate is that cycling two abreast is often the most efficient way of taking up road space. It leads to a compact group of cyclists that, when done correctly, are easier to overtake. A good group of cyclists will single out, when appropriate, to let traffic by if it's building up behind them, but arguing that cyclists should _never_ be allowed cycle two abreast is asking for trouble and will encourage more dangerous overtaking.

I don't agree, its nice cycling 2 abreast but there is a time and a place, not on a main or busy road. I do see it alot on the coast road, a 2 laned busy artery and the network is great along most of that road.

So its usually club or family cyclists that go 2 to 3 abreast for the actual few miles of that road were the network stops. Its a bad cycling practice and it does force traffic into taking a dangerous manoeuvre.