In defence of cyclists

smash

Driving down a road 2 years ago I had cyclists side by side in front of me. I beeped and they wouldn't move for me to overtake. When I did manage to overtake I got caught at a red light where one spat at my car and the other kicked it as the broke the light and then proceeded to turn down a lane so I couldn't follow them.

I don't hate all cyclists but a lot of them are proper cnuts with no road manners who think they're above the law! And for what it's worth, a lot of footpaths are in bits but you don't see pedestrians using the roads, and roads are full of potholes and ramps too so the crappy cycle lane argument doesn't work.

SleepDoc

smash wrote: »

Driving down a road 2 years ago I had cyclists side by side in front of me. I beeped and they wouldn't move for me to overtake. When I did manage to overtake I got caught at a red light where one spat at my car and the other kicked it as the broke the light and then proceeded to turn down a lane so I couldn't follow them.

I don't hate all cyclists but a lot of them are proper cnuts with no road manners who think they're above the law! And for what it's worth, a lot of footpaths are in bits but you don't see pedestrians using the roads, and roads are full of potholes and ramps too so the crappy cycle lane argument doesn't work.

No excuses for them spitting and breaking your light.

But,

You shouldn't have beeped at them.

They're entitled to cycle side by side.

The fact that they caught you at the lights shows how unnecessary your overtake was.

smash

SleepDoc wrote: »

No excuses for them spitting and breaking your light.

But,

You shouldn't have beeped at them.

They're entitled to cycle side by side.

The fact that they caught you at the lights shows how unnecessary your overtake was.

They kicked my car and broke the lights, not my light. And I was stuck behind them for a few minutes, they could have easily let me pass. It just happened that when I did pass, a light turned red.

SleepDoc

smash wrote: »

They kicked my car and broke the lights, not my light. And I was stuck behind them for a few minutes, they could have easily let me pass. It just happened that when I did pass, a light turned red.

Still shouldn't have beeped. That's not what the horn is for.

If you can't safely overtake two cyclists riding abreast you probably couldn't safely overtake one cyclist.

Counterintuitive for non-cyclists I know!

smash

smash wrote: »

And for what it's worth, a lot of footpaths are in bits but you don't see pedestrians using the roads, and roads are full of potholes and ramps too so the crappy cycle lane argument doesn't work.

Pedestrians don't travel at 30-40kph. It is not for reasons of convenience that cyclists avoid badly designed cycle lanes, it is for reasons of safety.

As with collisions between motor vehicles, the vast majority of collisions between cyclists and motor vehicles occur at junctions. Cycle lanes, especially the off road variety, put you in a terrible position at junctions.

This graphic shows how much more likely a cyclist is to have an accident when using an off road cycle lane compared to just riding on the road.

Chips Lovell

Ah here lads. Beeping at them at them is hardly comparable to trashing his car.

Redjeep!

smash wrote: »

They kicked my car and broke the lights, not my light. And I was stuck behind them for a few minutes, they could have easily let me pass. It just happened that when I did pass, a light turned red.

As SleepDoc said, there's no excusing that. They shouldn't have damaged your car if all you did was beep at them.

However, it doesn't make all cyclist's the same.

For what it's worth, I think that all road users should obey the laws and that includes motorists, cyclists, pedestrians, (and anybody else not covered by those groups). It annoys me as much as the next person to see cyclists jumping redlights, it also annoys me to see motorists wobble around a roundabout at 10km/hr as they're on the phone, or parking in cycle lanes so they don't have to walk an extra 10 meters to the shop.

There's no group of road users who are amorphous and perfect, or really any better than the next group. This is fairly simple to understand as there's no reason why all cyclists or motorists would be the same as each other any more than a group of Irish people would be exactly the same, or English or Chinese.

All groups are composed of individuals. If you spend the time to get to know them you'll probably find they're more alike that you think.

For the record, I'm a motorist, cyclist and a pedestrian (classed in descending order of distance travelled or time spent).

John_Rambo

smash wrote: »

Driving down a road 2 years ago I had cyclists side by side in front of me. I beeped and they wouldn't move for me to overtake. When I did manage to overtake I got caught at a red light where one spat at my car and the other kicked it as the broke the light and then proceeded to turn down a lane so I couldn't follow them.

I'd say there's more to this story that your not telling us judging by the cyclists reactions.

(and your driving is woeful by your own admittance, you should work on it, read up on the ROTR)

facemelter

smash wrote: »

Driving down a road 2 years ago I had cyclists side by side in front of me. I beeped and they wouldn't move for me to overtake. When I did manage to overtake I got caught at a red light where one spat at my car and the other kicked it as the broke the light and then proceeded to turn down a lane so I couldn't follow them.

I don't hate all cyclists but a lot of them are proper cnuts with no road manners who think they're above the law! And for what it's worth, a lot of footpaths are in bits but you don't see pedestrians using the roads, and roads are full of potholes and ramps too so the crappy cycle lane argument doesn't work.

That behaviour on behalf of the cyclists was disgraceful. but driving or walking of a poor surface is not the same as cycling on one. while cycling on a poor surface I have all the protection of a pedestrian from other road users and the spped of most cars. I am as exposed as a a pedestrian while matching cars for speed. They are atrociously dangerous.

Darkglasses

While we're all being honest with each other, could you all please stop putting your cars in the Advanced Stop Zones as well as cycle lanes? And I'll be mature enough to say that I DON'T hope you get injured on your commute. Just stop putting your cars in spaces which you so desperately want me to have my bike in.

CramCycle

Corkfeen wrote: »

hardCopy, I think one of the main reasons that there are people who think it's okay to cycle on roads is because of a lack of knowledge. The vast majority of people who do it, don't even know that it is against the law.

??? You meant footpad right?

smash wrote: »

I don't hate all cyclists but a lotfew of them just like any cross section of human beings you pick out at random are proper cnuts with no road manners who think they're above the law!

FYP

Redjeep! wrote: »

As SleepDoc said, there's no excusing that. They shouldn't have damaged your car if all you did was beep at them.

I thought he meant they broke the lights as in, they ran a red? is that not what happened? Either way they should not have done but he shouldn't have beeped. An eye for an eye and all that jazz.

Corkfeen

CramCycle wrote: »

??? You meant footpad right?

Yep. I'm half asleep from college study all day so my thoughts are no longer clear.... :pac:

omega666

smash wrote: »

Driving down a road 2 years ago I had cyclists side by side in front of me. I beeped and they wouldn't move for me to overtake. When I did manage to overtake I got caught at a red light where one spat at my car and the other kicked it as the broke the light and then proceeded to turn down a lane so I couldn't follow them.

I don't hate all cyclists but a lot of them are proper cnuts with no road manners who think they're above the law! And for what it's worth, a lot of footpaths are in bits but you don't see pedestrians using the roads, and roads are full of potholes and ramps too so the crappy cycle lane argument doesn't work.

good chance they would have used that road frequently so you should have gone back the next day at the same time and waited at the side of the road.
Just as they're about to overtake you swing the driver's door open. Sweet justice.

smash

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'd say there's more to this story that your not telling us judging by the cyclists reactions.

(and your driving is woeful by your own admittance, you should work on it, read up on the ROTR)

There's nothing more to this story, and please explain your comments in the brackets there. I've never said I'm a woeful driver!

Redjeep!

omega666 wrote: »

good chance they would have used that road frequently so you should have gone back the next day at the same time and waited at the side of the road.
Just as they're about to overtake you swing the driver's door open. Sweet justice.

Strange how a lot of the comments from drivers in this thread seem to be condoning violence towards cyclists and most (maybe not all) the threads from cyclists are much more consolidatory towards drivers.

BunShopVoyeur

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

WTF is wrong with you?

cyclists cycling a breast is what's wrong, isn't that clear ?

durka durka ......



Look I've been driving nearly 17+ years, never crashed into anyone, never been involved in an accident and haven't run any cyclists off the road....yet.

Your insults to my attitdue towards cyclists is fair enough but cyclists are total muppets my good man.

They break red lights, swerve all over the road to avoid potholes ( get in the cycle lane FFS ) cycle 2 / 3 a-breast.

But there's bad cyclists and I'm sure there's good cyclists. I personally have never seen the good kind.

Same can be said for drivers, good & bad.

Anyway I've never run over a cyclist but a guy can dream

You need to brush up on the rules of the road.

John_Rambo

smash wrote: »

There's nothing more to this story

As I said, I'd say there is, we have heard your one sided story. Judging by the reaction of the cyclists I'd imagine you either buzzed them or overtook dangerously. But, you're not going to admit to that even though you have proved you are a bad driver.

smash wrote: »

please explain your comments in the brackets there. I've never said I'm a woeful driver!

Easy to explain this. Sounding your horn just because you feel other road users should pull in to the side of the road for you and then overtaking only to stop at a red light displays very bad driving.

smash

John_Rambo wrote: »

As I said, I'd say there is, we have heard your one sided story. Judging by the reaction of the cyclists I'd imagine you either buzzed them or overtook dangerously. But, you're not going to admit to that even though you have proved you are a bad driver.

Easy to explain this. Sounding your horn just because you feel other road users should pull in to the side of the road for you and then overtaking only to stop at a red light displays very bad driving.

Beeping at someone who's causing an obstruction is not bad driving. And as I said I was stuck behind them for a few minutes, they caused a tailback. It just happened that when there was a chance to overtake, that a light turned red after a few yards.

And I didn't buzz them or overtake dangerously. But even they felt I had, it's no excuse to spit at and kick a car.

Dr.Strange

There really should be a way to dish out on the spot fines to cyclists who cycle dangerously instead of clogging up the district courts with them.

Maybe a few cycle cops in the city who nab people striaght away. There is a lot of revenue to be made out of it judging by the amount of people who jump lights.

John_Rambo

smash wrote: »

And as I said I was stuck behind them for a few minutes

Get up earlier.

smash wrote: »

It just happened that when there was a chance to overtake, that a light turned red after a few yards.

Bad driving. You should have foreseen this. Whenever cyclists, horses, tractors, animal herds, slow moving vehicles are in the lane in front, don't overtake until you see the road is clear ahead of lights, ramps, obstructions etc...

smash wrote: »

And I didn't buzz them or overtake dangerously

Of course.

smash

John_Rambo wrote: »

Bad driving. You should have foreseen this. Whenever cyclists, horses, tractors, animal herds, slow moving vehicles are in the lane in front, don't overtake until you see the road is clear ahead of lights, ramps, obstructions etc...

The road was clear. I doubt you're an idiot so stop acting like one. I said I overtook and then a light turned red after a few yards.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Of course.

Funny isn't it how cyclists, in the eyes of other cyclists can never do any wrong. :rolleyes:

John_Rambo

smash wrote: »

I doubt you're an idiot

First thing you got right.

smash wrote: »

Funny isn't it how cyclists, in the eyes of other cyclists can never do any wrong. :rolleyes:

I'm just about to hop in to my 225bhp car and head off now.

Safe driving.

smash

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm just about to hop in to my 225bhp car and head off now.

Well aren't you the big man...

GaryIrv93

smash wrote: »

Beeping at someone who's causing an obstruction is not bad driving. And as I said I was stuck behind them for a few minutes, they caused a tailback. It just happened that when there was a chance to overtake, that a light turned red after a few yards.

And I didn't buzz them or overtake dangerously. But even they felt I had, it's no excuse to spit at and kick a car.

Next time you get stuck behind a cyclist or two, if you can, open your window and politely call out to them and ask them to move aside a few feet to let you pass. In fairness, nobody likes being beeped at - it's insulting for many road users and from reading your story, it can provoke them to hit your car etc, especially cyclists. If I was in their position, if a driver calmly and politely requested that I move to the side a little to let them overtake, then I'd gladly do so if inconviencing him/her. But if I was beeped at, then I would get angry. I know the whole point of carhorns but still, nobody likes being beeped at. I do agree that they went a bit overboard there though hitting and spitting at your car if all you did was beep and overtake them. Was there any way you could've followed them?

John_Rambo

smash wrote: »

Well aren't you the big man...

Ha! I made it to my destination without resorting to beeping my horn!

smash

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Next time you get stuck behind a cyclist or two, if you can, open your window and politely call out to them and ask them to move aside a few feet to let you pass.

That's kind of hard in a right hand drive car.

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Was there any way you could've followed them?

No, they went down a lane with a pillar in front of it.

Like I said in my first post, they're not all bad but there are a lot of bad ones out there.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Ha! I made it to my destination without resorting to beeping my horn!

Good for you. I do that every day.

Mycroft H

smash wrote: »

Like I said in my first post, they're not all bad but there are a lot of bad ones out there.

Speak for yourselves!

I see car/bus/truck drivers do these on a daily basis:

Having not a ****ing clue as to the operation of a roundabout
Tailgating
Dangerous overtaking
Parking in the cycle lane
Running red lights
Speeding up at ambers
Excessive speed in general
Stopping in the advance stop position for cyclists.
In the wrong lane.
Driving with headphones in.
Driving with parking lights on in the dead of night

All those are pretty stupid and ignorant, some more so then others.

smash

BX 19 wrote: »

I see car/bus/truck drivers do these on a daily basis:

Yea but we're talking about cyclists. If you want to talk about motors then taxi drivers and white van drivers win hands down.

seamus

smash wrote: »

Yea but we're talking about cyclists. If you want to talk about motors then taxi drivers and white van drivers win hands down.

The point is that the statement, "they're not all bad but there are a lot of bad ones out there." is taken for granted.

That's true of human beings in general. It doesn't really need to be said.

smash

seamus wrote: »

The point is that the statement, "they're not all bad but there are a lot of bad ones out there." is taken for granted.

That's true of human beings in general. It doesn't really need to be said.

I think it does need to be said. Because I gave an example and still said they're not all bad yet I still got lambasted with shite like "you're just a bad driver".

ghostchant

smash wrote: »

Funny isn't it how cyclists, in the eyes of other cyclists can never do any wrong. :rolleyes:

That statement is a bit too general for my liking; there are multiple examples in this thread alone of cyclists stating that there are bad cyclists out there. Only a couple of pages back someone was lambasted by fellow cyclists for saying they cycle on the path.

EDIT: incidentally those guys were well out of order for doing that to your car

smash

ghostchant wrote: »

That statement is a bit too general for my liking; there are multiple examples in this thread alone of cyclists stating that there are bad cyclists out there. Only a couple of pages back someone was lambasted by fellow cyclists for saying they cycle on the path.

EDIT: incidentally those guys were well out of order for doing that to your car

My comment was aimed at one poster who decided himself that I was lying.

ghostchant

smash wrote: »

My comment was aimed at one poster who decided himself that I was lying.

Fair enough. I took it as a comment on cyclists in general.

Mycroft H

smash wrote: »

I think it does need to be said. Because I gave an example and still said they're not all bad yet I still got lambasted with shite like "you're just a bad driver".

There is bad drivers: FACT
There is proportionally as many crap cyclists: FACT

I should also hasten to add that there are posters here that have no clue how to treat treat cyclists on the road. Pretty clear by this thread.

Only yesterday did a lycra clad racer roar at me for slowing at a amber. And then he runs the red. (I did catch him later, favorite pastime of mine...)

I could giver numerous examples of how taxis cut me off in the bus lane and the cars that try run me off the roundabout.

Dr.Strange

BX 19 wrote: »

There is bad drivers: FACT
There is proportionally as many crap cyclists: FACT

I should also hasten to add that there are posters here that have no clue how to treat treat cyclists on the road. Pretty clear by this thread.

Only yesterday did a lycra clad racer roar at me for slowing at a amber. And then he runs the red. (I did catch him later, favorite pastime of mine...)

I could giver numerous examples of how taxis cut me off in the bus lane and the cars that try run me off the roundabout.

What did you do when you 'caught' him?

seamus

Dr.Strange wrote: »

What did you do when you 'caught' him?

The usual protocol is build up a head of steam, wipe the sweat from your brow, take a good deep breath and then stop pedalling and appear to effortlessly freewheel past the offender with a big smile on your face, and a wave if you're so inclined.

This is more devastating than any words can be.

Mycroft H

Dr.Strange wrote: »

What did you do when you 'caught' him?

By caught, I mean overtook him. And pedaled on. When cycling an old steel bike and in jeans it gives me great satisfaction to overtake anyone who is on a 1000 euro canyon carbon/aluminum road bike. Made more effective as I had panniers on the bike at the time. Its great fun just to say hello while trying to look like not making an effort :P

GaryIrv93

ghostchant wrote: »

Only a couple of pages back someone was lambasted by fellow cyclists for saying they cycle on the path.

I sometimes cycle on paths because I don't feel safe enough using the roads when there's no cyclepath available above the kerb. It hardly makes me a bad cyclist, especially when I take extra care on them. Like I said, how is it causing a problem when there's very few pedestrians whom I can very easily avoid? Most footpaths around my area at least are wide enough for both a person using a bike and at least one ped anyway,

Dr.Strange

BX 19 wrote: »

By caught, I mean overtook him. And pedaled on. When cycling an old steel bike and in jeans it gives me great satisfaction to overtake anyone who is on a 1000 euro canyon carbon/aluminum road bike. Made more effective as I had panniers on the bike at the time. Its great fun just to say hello while trying to look like not making an effort :P

Oh sorry, I misread you post and thought you were in a car.

It's still (kind of) early, that my excuse!

mickydcork

seamus wrote: »

The usual protocol is build up a head of steam, wipe the sweat from your brow, take a good deep breath and then stop pedalling and appear to effortlessly freewheel past the offender with a big smile on your face, and a wave if you're so inclined.

This is more devastating than any words can be.

I practice this as well.

I hate other cyclists who break the lights. They give cyclists a bad name.

However most of the ill feeling from motorists towards cyclists I feel, is based on jealousy. I think it's annoying for drivers stuck in traffic to see a cyclist wizzing past them and getting excercise at the same time.

But having said this - as someone who cycles to work everyday in Dublin, I wouldn't recommend it!

It's too dangerous an undertaking, when road set up, lack of decent cycle lanes, road conditions and poor drivers are taken into account.

big_heart_on

I love the oul cycling and have seen much stupidity on the road, admittedly I've done some stupid stuff myself.

Daily I see cyclists run red lights, but due to broken cycle crossings it will appear to drivers stopped at the lights that I'm running red even when I'm using the junction as it was designed.

I've had a driver pull in to the bike lane on top of me running me into the curb, then he loses the head out the window cos I screamed and banged the side of the van in my moment of terror of death :rolleyes:

Saw a lycra clad cycling enthusiast with a rear disc wheel pass a line of cars on a bend in a no overtaking zone, incredibly dumb thing to do.

Had a driver beeping behind me while climbing the Rocky valley in Wicklow. My shoulder was brushing the thorns but that wasnt enough for this douchenozzle, he had to lean on the horn just to make the situation as dangerous as possible.

There are plenty of aholes of all types on the road, but mistakes by car drivers are much more likely to result in serious injury or death to others.

Surveyor11

big_heart_on wrote: »

.....this douchenozzle

That is my word of the day, class

SleepDoc

smash wrote: »

My comment was aimed at one poster who decided himself that I was lying.

I don't think you're lying.

I think you're a poor driver (so am I) who should brush up on the ROTR.

drdeadlift

Cycle 5km across Dublin city center 5 days per week.
If i were to do a survey on how many cyclist break red lights in the inner city i will have a good guess at 70% of em.
I stop at red lights for the simple reason of sticking to the rules.
Another one is cyclist with their earphones in this is natural selection at its best.

I dont get bothered by motorists too much as its easy to get out on front of them within the inner city,if i feel like there isnt space for both car and bike in the lane i will cycle in the middle but at 40-50kmh so im not really holding them up.Its fun to watch them go all sheepish at the lights after the beeped their horn at ya.

Worst of the lot the gombeen fwits on the public bikes,they dont give a crap about anyone or any law,

smash

SleepDoc wrote: »

I don't think you're lying.

I think you're a poor driver (so am I) who should brush up on the ROTR.

I know the rules of the road. I know cyclists are allowed to travel side by side but it's common courtesy not to when you're causing a tail back.

drdeadlift

smash wrote: »

I know the rules of the road. I know cyclists are allowed to travel side by side but it's common courtesy not to when you're causing a tail back.

More like common sense

SleepDoc

smash wrote: »

I know the rules of the road. I know cyclists are allowed to travel side by side but it's common courtesy not to when you're causing a tail back.

From ROTR


Only use a horn to:

• warn other road users of on-coming danger, or
• make them aware of your presence for safety reasons when reasonably necessary.

Remember, the horn does not give you the right of way.




You must not overtake when

• You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
• A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
• You are approaching a junction.
• You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
• You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.

seamus

smash wrote: »

I know the rules of the road. I know cyclists are allowed to travel side by side but it's common courtesy not to when you're causing a tail back.

That's condition dependent. Singling out may serve no additional purpose except to encourage a car to overtake dangerously.

smash

SleepDoc wrote: »

From ROTR

Only use a horn to:

• warn other road users of on-coming danger, or
• make them aware of your presence for safety reasons when reasonably necessary.

Safety reason: I wanted to pass them. So did everyone behind me.

SleepDoc wrote: »

Remember, the horn does not give you the right of way.

Never said it did.

SleepDoc wrote: »

You must not overtake when

• You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
• A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
• You are approaching a junction.
• You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
• You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.

None of these apply. Like I said earlier, when I overtook a light turned red after a few yards. I'm talking about 50/60 yards here.

The basic point is that I gave them a beep after a few minutes of holding up traffic, I didn't blast them out of it. And as a result they decided to try and damage my car and then proceeded to break the law to get away with it.

As far as I can recall it's the only time I've had an issue with a cyclist. I've seen plenty weave in an out of traffic dangerously and break red light but I don't really care about them. They're not directly affecting me.

omega666

drdeadlift wrote: »

More like common sense

anyone that's going to block half the road and impede traffic is not going to have much common sense anyway.