Fergal Quinn urges use of anti-terrorist software to monitor welfare claimants

Run_to_da_hills

"That money grubbing clown Senator Fergal Quinn now wants to use anti terrorist methods to monitor welfare claimants.The software would look for words like holiday or new car. This is the same crook who set up a separate company to get around hello money legislation. Full text at link.

Senator Feargall Quinn moments ago in the Seanad has suggested that the Government consider monitoring the use of the internet by social welfare recipients to detect instances of fraud. Keywords such as "holiday" and "new car" could indicate instances of fraud, according to Senator Quinn".

What a distasteful individual and yet another member of the freeloading class attempting to scapegoat the most vulnerable in society.

Why doesn't he start with the real criminals first IE corrupt bankers, property developers, politicians and public servants.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/101773

Richard Hillman

1. Indymedia, really?

2. even if this is true (which by indymedia standards, it probably isnt) what is wrong with what he is doing?

Fromthetrees

I want to live in a police state.

Born to Die

Who elected him?

suicide_circus

Welfare terrorism?
If the same software is used to monitor his golf club buddies for worlds like; avoidance, loophole and donation, I see no problem

Run_to_da_hills

Richard Hillman wrote: »

1. Indymedia, really?

2. even if this is true (which by indymedia standards, it probably isnt) what is wrong with what he is doing?

They got it from P.ie

http://www.politics.ie/news/senator-quinn-suggests-counter-terrorist-software-should-used-monitor-social-welfare-recipients-use-social-media-290-comments4.html#comments

Thrill

Why not test something like that out on say, politicians and bankers first. Keywords like "brown envelope" would automatically expose the corrupt.

ilovesleep

What an entire load of crap.

So someone on SW wouldn't be allowed to take a holiday within Ireland?

The DCA is a social welfare payment paid out once a year to parents and carers who have someone who needs full time caring. The payment is for respite, to allow them a break/a holiday.

Someone on SW could be googling holidays for someone else.

Let's say you have family abroad, older and settled. Perhaps aunts or uncles who emirgrated back in the 80s. What happens when they die and you go googling for a plane ticket to get you abroad for his/her funeral? Will a few days abroad be considered a holiday?

Just some ideas of the top of my head.

Logical Fallacy

People on SW should be limited to holidaying within Ireland, keep the cash within the economy.

Fergal Quinn's idea is sheer idiocy though.

Born to Die

I would have thought the AH regulars would be all for this. What with the dolers ruining the country with their money grabbing ways.

It is early I suppose.

suicide_circus

"Unelected millionaire tycoon stamps out any last bit of enjoyment of life for the poorest in society"

starbelgrade

Richard Hillman wrote: »

1. Indymedia, really?

2. even if this is true (which by indymedia standards, it probably isnt) what is wrong with what he is doing?

It is actually true. The full text of what he said is available here (as is the text of all Seanad debates);

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/2012/04/27/00003.asp

Indymedia however, have put a ridiculous spin on it - it was a debate & he was talking about different methods other countries use to monitor welfare fraud.

I don't like the man, but he's done absolutely nothing wrong here.

tfitzgerald

I really don't think many people on welfare payments are going on foreign holidays. . As well as that the welfare offices can't cope with the work they have now never mind giving them extra . I can think of one way of saving money immediately and that is to get rid of the gravy train called the Seanad . With their expense accounts ect

Logical Fallacy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

SW are allowed 12 days a year holidays in which they must apply for permission if they wish to leave the jurisdiction of the state.

I know this, I am saying they shouldn't be allowed to leave the state unless it's a wedding or a funeral or something like that.

A simple holiday should be taken within Ireland to help bolster our home tourist trade.

Run_to_da_hills

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

People on SW should be limited to holidaying within Ireland, keep the cash within the economy.

Fergal Quinn's idea is sheer idiocy though.

SW allow 12 days a year holidays in which reciprients must apply for permission if they wish to leave the jurisdiction of the state for that period. The day that they leave the country and return is not covered in this.

starbelgrade

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

A simple holiday should be taken within Ireland to help bolster our home tourist trade.

Send the fuckers to Mosney.

Logical Fallacy

starbelgrade wrote: »

Send the fuckers to Mosney.

I think Mosney is basically our version of Guantanamo Bay now.

MungBean

Should all purchases be monitored too to make sure they aint getting the quilted jacks roll and fancy biscuits ?

Fcuk off, more bullshít time wasting crap from an ignorant cnut.

starbelgrade

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I think Mosney is basically our version of Guantanamo Bay now.

Apart from the bumper cars.

paddyandy

What ever it takes to do the job and save many millions of euros .

MungBean

paddyandy wrote: »

What ever it takes to do the job and save many millions of euros .

Hitman to weed out the time wasters and clowns from prominent positions.

mikemac1

starbelgrade wrote: »

Send the fuckers to Mosney.

It's Mosnia these days

Turtyturd

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I know this, I am saying they shouldn't be allowed to leave the state unless it's a wedding or a funeral or something like that.

A simple holiday should be taken within Ireland to help bolster our home tourist trade.

Stupid idea.

People should be entitled to go where they like rather than forced into paying the extortionate prices in this country.

44leto

I honestly don't see why not, any measure that cuts out fraudulent welfare claims are fine by me. The softy softy approach just does not work.

bleg

Completely reasonable and should also be applied to medical card holders.

Logical Fallacy

Turtyturd wrote: »

Stupid idea.

People should be entitled to go where they like rather than forced into paying the extortionate prices in this country.

Stupid post tbh.

Think harder, then come back to me.

44leto

bleg wrote: »

Completely reasonable and should also be applied to medical card holders.

I know a taximan that got one of them.

Kalel

The software to do this is very very expensive and then you have the storage(hard drive capacity) cost which would also be massive..I'm talking in the 10's of millions..no chance of this coming into play

MungBean

Fackebook - Profile settings - Private. 30 seconds.

No way it would work, any attempt to do it would be an utterly stupid waste of resources.

Peetrik

Yep let's focus on making things harder on the people who lost their jobs and let the people in power who were responsible for the jobs being lost continue getting back handers and avoiding paying tax whenever possible, smart.

It will never pass but that is never the intention when things like this are made public.
Firstly it's to distract people from looking up the ladder to demand answers, it's a lot easier to look down the ladder and cast blame.
Secondly it's to get people used to thinking about worst case scenarios so that it's easier to take smaller chips away from our rights as citizens.


Thats what I see.

Kalel

MungBean wrote: »

Fackebook - Profile settings - Private. 30 seconds.

No way it would work, any attempt to do it would be an utterly stupid waste of resources.

You are completely wrong there..it is very possible and is used by quite a few governments..

Thrill

44leto wrote: »

I honestly don't see why not, any measure that cuts out fraudulent welfare claims are fine by me. The softy softy approach just does not work.

Then monitor all of society. All fraud costs the state money.

Pherekydes

MungBean wrote: »

Should all purchases be monitored too to make sure they aint getting the quilted jacks roll and fancy biscuits ?

Nah, they're spending it on drink and cigs instead of school books for their kids.

paddyandy

In Ireland Great Ideas take years to catch on and must be tested first elsewhere and as usual the Lefties are AGIN it .

ballinteerguy

ok, maybe its a step too far to monitor people all the time, but I do think that Social welfare should have an elite squad to occasionally monitor consistent and previous fraudsters who are still on the dole - this could be something they should have an a weapon in their fight against us, (the tax payer) wasting public money on serial offenders. But if they tell everyone about it that it exists, then people would be more careful of their postings..

Biggins

Its bad enough that the Chinese have to skirt words to talk about common ordinary things, now the Irish people might have to if the story is true?

Daftness of the highest order, if so!

WoollyRedHat

How do they distinguish if they are really going on a holiday... what if they're just saying how they just wish they could go on holiday? Is this being used against social media?

WoollyRedHat

Like if I write Nuclear bomb on twitter or whatever, does that make me a terrorist?

Eric Cartman

indymedia = left wing equivalent of the daily mail

nothing wrong with it at all. Thats a brilliant idea

Eric Cartman

suicide_circus wrote: »

"Unelected millionaire tycoon stamps out any last bit of enjoyment of life for the poorest in society layabouts spending money that could be used to help people who actually need it"

FYP

Mr. Presentable

Biggins wrote: »

Its bad enough that the Chinese have to skirt words to talk about common ordinary things, now the Irish people might have to if the story is true?

Daftness of the highest order, if so!

If anyone had bothered to read the actual source of the comments they would have found he was describing how things are done in other countries. This was just one of many examples he gave of how other countries track fraud.

It was not a proposal.

Bandana boy

How effective this particular method would be is a topic worthy of debate.
But surely everybody here (except criminals defrauding the state) is in favour of a means of catching Dole Cheats.
Your either paying into the pool and do not like seeing your money going to criminals.
Or your taking from the Pool and in todays Ireland are either getting less money as there is a limited supply or your being painted with the same brush as those who are defrauding the state.

Now personally I feel the amount that is actually being defrauded is probably smaller than most people imagine, but I am for investigating new methods to catch out all criminals and bring them to justice.

For those saying we should not investigate these crimes while white collar crime exists ,thats a bit daft ,should we stop investigating murder as well !

Thrill

Bandana boy wrote: »

For those saying we should not investigate these crimes while white collar crime exists ,thats a bit daft ,should we stop investigating murder as well !

For those saying we should only spy on those on Welfare and not all of society ,should we stop investigating murder as well !

Bandana boy

Thrill wrote: »

For those saying we should only spy on those on Welfare and not all of society ,should we stop investigating murder as well !

I dont believe anybody suggested that all our resources should be put into catching welfare cheats.Just that this is a possible solution to that problem.

Run_to_da_hills

This is the main reason why I have always shown concerns down through my years of posting on privacy issues with new technological developments such as smart cards and electronic toll plazas when you have guys like this about.

He should go back to stocking shelves.

Thrill

Bandana boy wrote: »

I don't believe anybody suggested that all our resources should be put into catching welfare cheats.Just that this is a possible solution to that problem.

The suggestion is monitoring SW recipients internet use to root out fraud. Should a blind eye be turned to the rest of society? Give them a free pass?

Are all SW recipients potential fraudsters and as such their right to privacy is less than that of everyone else?

Who is likely to cost the state the most when it comes to fraud, a welfare recipient or a banker/business man/politician?

Why not monitor them?


The stupidest thing of all though, is that after all the ranting and raving over Sean Sherlock, people here are ready to welcome the monitoring of over half a million peoples internet use with open arms.

shampon

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/101773

:rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

shampon wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Its linked to P.IE.

http://www.politics.ie/news/senator-quinn-suggests-counter-terrorist-software-should-used-monitor-social-welfare-recipients-use-social-media-290.html

MungBean

Who do they expect to catch using this method people going on holiday for a few days instead of looking for work ? What will the outcome be ? Cut their dole for a week ?

Why cant they try to tackle the real fraudsters with multiple claims and using fake documents ? Why not try fix the fcukin problems rather then poke at it with all these time wasting bullshít solutions that wont do fcuk all ?

MetalDog

Whens the referendum to abolish the Senate? - the sooner the better. What an utter wanker.

Bandana boy

Thrill wrote: »

Should a blind eye be turned to the rest of society? Give them a free pass?

I don't believe our law system works on an either or scenario
There is nothing in tackling this that suggest we will not tackle other crimes, but even if they only plan to bring in new methods to tackle welfare fraud, it is still a crime and on its own merits is worth pursuing.
Now I admit we are a long way from any decisions being made but I would imagine catching welfare fraud has no impact on the vast majority claiming welfare fairly , if anything it might reduce some of the stigma associated with being "on the dole".