Alien Abduction

mr big boy

No wonder people don't bother telling their experiences much. But to be fair i would probably think the same before i had mine. In a way i am glad though because once your mind is opened you see things differently.

King Mob

mr big boy wrote: »

Because it was my experience, i felt it and i know what i felt. Intuition comes into it and if someone had my experience and wants to call it sleep paralysis well then good for them.

But this can't allow you to tell the difference. You're assuming that sleep paralysis cannot produce the sensations you are reporting, even though the research show that it very much can.

Intuition is not reliable. People make many claims about a whole mess of things based on intuition and they are very rarely right.
And you have to agree that your intuition is fallible and is subject to being tricked and confused. And further that your memories of the event are also subject to be being misremembered and embellished.

Can you really honestly, objectively say that none of these things played a role?

dyer

mr big boy you might consider posting your experience here : http://www.ufoi.org/

i've had my share of ufo experiences over the years, if i could tell you anything, it would be not to waste your time arguing with people about it online. if someone hasn't had a valid encounter/experience.. they will simply never get it.

al28283

mr big boy wrote: »

No wonder people don't bother telling their experiences much. But to be fair i would probably think the same before i had mine. In a way i am glad though because once your mind is opened you see things differently.

People do tell alot about their experiences. You are ignoring and dismissing them. And you are not at all open minded, you are ignoring everything anyone is saying that disagrees your view, even those of people who have had the same experience, this is the complete opposite of being open minded

al28283

dyer wrote: »

if someone hasn't had a valid encounter/experience.. they will simply never get it.

but many of the posters here have already said they have had similar experiences

King Mob

dyer wrote: »

mr big boy you might consider posting your experience here : http://www.ufoi.org/

i've had my share of ufo experiences over the years, if i could tell you anything, it would be not to waste your time arguing with people about it online. if someone hasn't had a valid encounter/experience.. they will simply never get it.

And mr big boy, not questioning what you experienced and what you know and dismissing other ideas and other people's experiences as dryer is suggesting because they don't agree with yours, is the definition of being closed minded.

mr big boy

King Mob wrote: »

But this can't allow you to tell the difference. You're assuming that sleep paralysis cannot produce the sensations you are reporting, even though the research show that it very much can.

Intuition is not reliable. People make many claims about a whole mess of things based on intuition and they are very rarely right.
And you have to agree that your intuition is fallible and is subject to being tricked and confused. And further that your memories of the event are also subject to be being misremembered and embellished.

Can you really honestly, objectively say that none of these things played a role?

Honestly pal i can only be honest about it, i know paralysis might seem the only correct explanation but it doesn't sit right with me.I really can't find the words to fully explain how i feel. Eh it's hard stuff to get out and i am in a state of confusion as i type this. I will sleep on it and will try to read and answer your points more clearly tomorrow . I ain't trying to dodge your questions but even just thinking back about it is very draining.

dyer

you're throwing like with like.. just because there are some similiar aspects doesn't necessarily mean they are the same thing does it?

i have had sleep paralysis myself so i know what it's like.. but the OP mentioned a light entering the room which lifted him from his bed and that he was being communicated with telepathically. perhaps it is a case of sleep paralysis.. but, maybe it isn't?

mr big boy

dyer wrote: »

mr big boy you might consider posting your experience here : http://www.ufoi.org/

i've had my share of ufo experiences over the years, if i could tell you anything, it would be not to waste your time arguing with people about it online. if someone hasn't had a valid encounter/experience.. they will simply never get it.

Thank you. Yea they are firing so many things my way it is making me uneasy and i am struggling to think straight. Kinda wierd recalling this because it opens up feelings that are hard to control.

al28283

dyer wrote: »

but the OP mentioned a light entering the room which lifted him from his bed and that he was being communicated with telepathically

these are all characteristics of sleep paralysis, along with being terrified of something in the room which you cannot see

charlemont

Lisandro wrote: »

"Iv seen UFO's over Cork"

UFOs over Cork! That'll be the day!

What the original poster describes sounds a lot like sleep paralysis. The human mind's capability to hallucinate is truly spectacular. Influenced by fear, doubt, outright uncertainty, it's very easy for the mind to become vulnerable to illusions and numerous psychological studies confirm this. Wait until you've subjected the experience to the full blade of science before you declare such a spectacular conclusion.

Yea Saturday 29th August 2009, I remember it well and I had three friends with me, Its on the internet too and you can check it out with 96fm and ask them what song they played around 11 that night if you think I'm childish enough to go posting lies here.


BTW I'v had sleep paralysis for as long as I remember so does my Dad and my teenage son and not one of us have ever seen Aliens or anything else during it.

dyer

al28283 wrote: »

these are all characteristics of sleep paralysis, along with being terrified of something in the room which you cannot see

i would see them rather, as subjective characteristics of sleep paralysis that attempt to explain away abductions, a phenomenon that people otherwise cannot accept. i can't personally speak for or against alien abductions but i wouldn't be quick to rule them out because of the things i've seen and the research i've done myself.

someone mentioned john mack earlier, i dug up this docu :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xTQ2-S1n-Q

King Mob

dyer wrote: »

you're throwing like with like.. just because there are some similiar aspects doesn't necessarily mean they are the same thing does it?

i have had sleep paralysis myself so i know what it's like.. but the OP mentioned a light entering the room which lifted him from his bed and that he was being communicated with telepathically. perhaps it is a case of sleep paralysis.. but, maybe it isn't?

And just because it looks, sounds and walks like a duck doesn't mean it's not a magic space duck instead of a regular duck right?

Even if we all accept that aliens are visiting us, sleep paralysis is the most likely explanation. It accounts for everything that was reported and the op has not outlined anything that cannot be account for by it. Nor has he produced any reason or evidence to indicate that it was anything other than sleep paralysis.

Daffodil.d

why specifically aliens? why not ghosts or demons. if i come across condescending I am sorry but you're describing feelings and have picked an entity but there is no proof its aliens.I have had the exact same experience and originally thought I was being haunted, that's how sacred I was but eventually after a lot of research realised it was sleep paralysis. like I said earlier. and there was a question about other people experiencing this and how they would feel. its o scary it affects you for weeks after.

Torakx

Thats what i ment when i mentioned metaphysical forms.
Demons back in biblical days could have been aliens from another dimension/plane,phasing in and out.

I think it highly unlikely they are in any way communicating with us in any shape or form.
But if they were, thats maybe one way it can be explained.

So when you say aparitions etc could be demons, i still consider those demons to be aliens from another dimension.
personally i dont believe any aliens are in contact at all and i dont believe ghosts or demons,including god/satan exist..unless you count them as planets,with some kind of consciousness or symbolism to mankind.

If the bible is anyway real at all (which i think not) then God is an alien.

mr big boy

dyer wrote: »

i would see them rather, as subjective characteristics of sleep paralysis that attempt to explain away abductions, a phenomenon that people otherwise cannot accept. i can't personally speak for or against alien abductions but i wouldn't be quick to rule them out because of the things i've seen and the research i've done myself.

someone mentioned john mack earlier, i dug up this docu :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xTQ2-S1n-Q

Just got serious flashbacks watching this. Spine tingling

Torakx

While researching outer body experiences i read about how to try do it.
apparently when you achieve it, at a point just before..you get a jolt like electricity running up into the back of your skull.

Later i read that this OBE's should not be attempted through meditation as you sleep, as this can cause sleep paralysis.

The descriptions of alien abductions many times seem to have similar signs that it may be an OBE or sleep paralysis.
Since the rational mind is awakened during sleep paralysis and not OBE's afaik,it may be that it creates an alternative scenario to explain that scary situation.
Some people have been known to wake up paralysed with a succubus type demon literally sitting on their chest face close to theirs paralyzing them with fear as it drains energy from them.

So if you believe in aliens or god it might be more likely that is whats happening.Or even without prior belief,the mind may take one of these concepts as a back up reality to save a complete shutdown.

If you go into an OBE it seems to me its not fully awake but nearly. so you can fly about and even go to other worlds.But since it may be so close to waking the mind that might be why it runs the risk of causing sleep paralysis.
Oh and maybe also why sleep paralysis victims remembr so much of their experience..as they would be nearly fully awake i think.
And OBE's are ment to be very hard to rmemeber..almost like a dream that dissapates soon after waking.
Many people who do astral travel through OBE's need to keep a journal by their bed so they can quickly write down what happened before they forget.

My thoughts anyway.

Lefticus Loonaticus

King Mob wrote: »

No, I'm saying that explanations that rely on magical creatures or aliens or things to that effect are unreasonable and ridiculous.
Doubly so when there is a much more plausible, supported and mundane explanation that fits the bill.

You say aliens are unreasonable and ridiculous. If so, can you please explain to me what these people are talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk.

Also, many years later, these guys basically seem to be saying the same thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUU4Z8QdHI.

All of the these people are highly qualified and have previously held postions in military, public and civilian sectors. Many of them have had very high level positions.

Can you explain what these people are talking about? Or are they completely delusional?

luckyfrank

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

You say aliens are unreasonable and ridiculous. If so, can you please explain to me what these people are talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk.

Also, many years later, these guys basically seem to be saying the same thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUU4Z8QdHI.

All of the these people are highly qualified and have previously held postions in military, public and civilian sectors. Many of them have had very high level positions.

Can you explain what these people are talking about? Or are they completely delusional?

off the head pal

al28283

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

You say aliens are unreasonable and ridiculous. If so, can you please explain to me what these people are talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk.

Also, many years later, these guys basically seem to be saying the same thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUU4Z8QdHI.

All of the these people are highly qualified and have previously held postions in military, public and civilian sectors. Many of them have had very high level positions.

Can you explain what these people are talking about? Or are they completely delusional?

That's beside the point, whether these people are telling the truth or not, this has no connection to what the OP described.

Ninjamonkey

luckyfrank wrote: »

off the head pal

/me sighs ....

luckyfrank

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

/me sighs ....

me lifts pint ........ swallows

Ninjamonkey

luckyfrank wrote: »

me lifts pint ........ swallows

Now THAT I can appreciate , great to see a common line of thinking on this thread ..

Sláinte

King Mob

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

You say aliens are unreasonable and ridiculous. If so, can you please explain to me what these people are talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk.

Also, many years later, these guys basically seem to be saying the same thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUU4Z8QdHI.

All of the these people are highly qualified and have previously held postions in military, public and civilian sectors. Many of them have had very high level positions.

Can you explain what these people are talking about? Or are they completely delusional?

So since they all held "very high level positions" I should just believe them without question?
Do these positions somehow make these people immune to the stuff that can make other people believe in something that isn't true?

And what, other than the unsupported assumptions that aliens abduct people connect those guys with the OP?

shamrock55

mr big boy wrote: »

No wonder people don't bother telling their experiences much. But to be fair i would probably think the same before i had mine. In a way i am glad though because once your mind is opened you see things differently.

mate you have really been taken in by this alien abduction thing but as i said before the same thing that happened to you happened to me except for the bright light take it from me its sleep paralysis this is an actual condition and is not a made up thing to cover up alien abductions

Ninjamonkey

King Mob wrote: »

So since they all held "very high level positions" I should just believe them without question?
Do these positions somehow make these people immune to the stuff that can make other people believe in something that isn't true?
And what, other than the unsupported assumptions that aliens abduct people connect those guys with the OP?

Yep, I have to agree with King Mob on this point.
One should never believe these guys without question. remember the Alien machine is a huge money-spinner, and one which you do not need a degree in to lecture on. - (excuse the cynic in me) However, After listening to hours of testimony, and also knowing personally pilots who have seen unusual objects when flying cargo runs, Who I know to be of sound mind, and who would never report such a sighting, I am of the opinion that there is the possibility of " something" happening. I do not profess to know what that something is.

It may be alien, it may be inter-dimensional, it may be a manifestation of the sub conscious, creating its own reality, which the brain interprets as "real". Quantum theory is now questioning the validity of what we determine to be "real" However, it would seem when all the evidence is weighed up, that something is occurring.
Also to note. The professionals who are reporting these occurrences, have been through rigorous psychological screening, and personality tests. They are deemed to be of sound mind, and are tasked with authority over a nuclear arsenal. They are not usually people who would seek attention through fabrication of such stories.

King Mob

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

It may be alien, it may be inter-dimensional, it may be a manifestation of the sub conscious, creating its own reality, which the brain interprets as "real". Quantum theory is now questioning the validity of what we determine to be "real" However, it would seem when all the evidence is weighed up, that something is occurring.
Also to note. The professionals who are reporting these occurrences, have been through rigorous psychological screening, and personality tests. They are deemed to be of sound mind, and are tasked with authority over a nuclear arsenal. They are not usually people who would seek attention through fabrication of such stories.

So why can't it be a case of sleep paralysis? We know it exists and that it is common. We know that it happens to pretty much anybody and it doesn't require you to be 'mentally unsound'.

Similarly there's plenty of reasons that people can be fooled into believing something that isn't true.
They can misremember or misrecall their experiences. They can misidentify normal stuff. They can be influence by being interested, or becoming interested in the UFO community. Their testimony could be altered, or misremembered by less honest researchers.
Or one of a thousand other explanations that don't require them to be any less mentally deficient that the rest of us.

So unfortunately, simply stating that they can't be mistaken or lying doesn't amount to evidence.

Ninjamonkey

King Mob wrote: »

So why can't it be a case of sleep paralysis? We know it exists and that it is common. We know that it happens to pretty much anybody and it doesn't require you to be 'mentally unsound'.

Similarly there's plenty of reasons that people can be fooled into believing something that isn't true.
They can misremember or misrecall their experiences. They can misidentify normal stuff. They can be influence by being interested, or becoming interested in the UFO community. Their testimony could be altered, or misremembered by less honest researchers.
Or one of a thousand other explanations that don't require them to be any less mentally deficient that the rest of us.

So unfortunately, simply stating that they can't be mistaken or lying doesn't amount to evidence.

Well, first off I personally never said it could not be sleep paralysis, of course it could be. However from the OP's account, I believe him inasmuch as there seems to be more to it than that.

I have experienced sleep paralysis many years ago. In this case the mind was perfectly awake, but the body was too tired to respond to commands. I simply relaxed adn went back to sleep until the body was ready to wake.

The floating/ light etc as described by the OP, was never experienced, and I cannot comment on that

Just to be clear, I did not link the OP's post or experience to UFO's, my point was merely to highlight that the notion of Alien or Extraterrestrial is no longer seen as Ridiculous, or impossible.

Also, it has to be noted that it is VERY easy to deny all evidence, and come up with another excuse not to accept there may be something unusual happening.

Personally, my money is on the flying spaghetti monster !

talking of which , this is fun ..

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/165654-do-you-believe-flying-spaghetti-monster.html

King Mob

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

Well, first off I personally never said it could not be sleep paralysis, of course it could be. However from the OP's account, I believe him inasmuch as there seems to be more to it than that.

I have experienced sleep paralysis many years ago. In this case the mind was perfectly awake, but the body was too tired to respond to commands. I simply relaxed adn went back to sleep until the body was ready to wake.

The floating/ light etc as described by the OP, was never experienced, and I cannot comment on that

Well then since it is possible that it was a case of sleep paralysis, why do you assume the other, less likely explanations are somehow more plausible?

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

Just to be clear, I did not link the OP's post or experience to UFO's, my point was merely to highlight that the notion of Alien or Extraterrestrial is no longer seen as Ridiculous, or impossible.

And even if we accepted that, which I don't, the idea that aliens are an explanation is based solely on the totally assumed and unsupported idea that aliens abduct people. This, even aside from the total lack of evidence and sense from the claims of the UFO crowd makes the explanation you are proposing ridiculous and unreasonable.

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

Also, it has to be noted that it is VERY easy to deny all evidence, and come up with another excuse not to accept there may be something unusual happening.

And this is just a silly strawman argument. We haven't said that there wasn't anything going on, just that it was mundane.
There's nothing to support and nothing to make any reasonable person think otherwise.

al28283

Whether aliens exist or not is beside the point.

Basically, there is equal evidence to connect the Op's quite common experience to aliens as there is to connect it to ghosts or werewolves. i.e none at all.

But the Op feels it was aliens and so anyone who disagrees with that is close-minded and to be pitied in his view, or so it seems. We just don't get it

He is starting with the assumption that it is aliens and so everything he reads or looks into will only support that feeling and he dismisses any other explanation.

Ninjamonkey

King Mob wrote: »

Well then since it is possible that it was a case of sleep paralysis, why do you assume the other, less likely explanations are somehow more plausible?


And even if we accepted that, which I don't, the idea that aliens are an explanation is based solely on the totally assumed and unsupported idea that aliens abduct people. This, even aside from the total lack of evidence and sense from the claims of the UFO crowd makes the explanation you are proposing ridiculous and unreasonable.


And this is just a silly strawman argument. We haven't said that there wasn't anything going on, just that it was mundane.
There's nothing to support and nothing to make any reasonable person think otherwise.

Hmm... Maybe I am not making this clear enough, though I have stated it several times, I am happy address is again, let me clarify piece by piece

1)
Why do you assume the other, less likely explanations are somehow more plausible?

A: I do not, and never have. I have only said I would not instantly dismiss them, as ridiculous and unreasonable, as only a closed minded person would do. I have no idea what the OP experienced. It could have been anything from Sleep paralysys to an unknown type of event. - I make no assumtions

2)
And even if we accepted that, which I don't, the idea that aliens are an explanation is based solely on the totally assumed and unsupported idea that aliens abduct people. This, even aside from the total lack of evidence and sense from the claims of the UFO crowd makes the explanation you are proposing ridiculous and unreasonable.

A: I have not, did not and will not propose any explanation, I simply do not discount the OP's explanation as rediculous and unreasonable. I could not possibly propose an explanation, because I did not witness the event.

3)
And this is just a silly strawman argument. We haven't said that there wasn't anything going on, just that it was mundane. There's nothing to support and nothing to make any reasonable person think otherwise.

A: This is a very fair and valid comment. I support you on this.

I believe the OP experienced an unusual event. I have no idea what it was, but I do beleve the Op is sincere in his posting. I for one believe his account of what he witnessed. I would not discount the idea of extraterrestrials, simply because the universe is such an unkown.

However, we may rest easy that with the sheer arrogance of the human race , where many people think Humans are the only lifeform, and any other notion is simply ridiculous, we will never get to know, because there are those who will always simply dismiss it rather than open their limited blinkered minds to the possibility that the universe might be bigger than their belief system

al28283

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

However, we may rest easy that with the sheer arrogance of the human race , where many people think Humans are the only lifeform, and any other notion is simply rediculous, we will never get to know, because there are those who will always simply dismiss it rather than open their limited blinkered minds to the possibility that the universe might be bigger than their belief system

But there is no reason at all to connect his experience to aliens, absolutely none. There may well be aliens, probably is, but there is no reason to believe they had anything to do with this. There is no connection

Ninjamonkey

al28283 wrote: »

But there is no reason at all to connect his experience to aliens, absolutely none. There may well be aliens, probably is, but there is no reason to believe they had anything to do with this. There is no connection

Thank you - finally someone understands what I am saying.

i do agree, as I said I never did connect this to aliens, but I beleive the OP. If he feels there was more to it than sleep paralysis, and if the event was very unusual, I believe he is being honest and truthful with the post. - My main point, is to instantly dismiss it as unreasonable and ridiculous is equally as incorrect as to instantly attribute it to aliens.

al28283

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

My main point, is to instantly dismiss it as unreasonable and rediculous is equally as incorrect as to instantly attribute it to aliens.

But it's not, all the evidence points to it being sleep paralysis, it sounds exactly like it, all the signs point to it being that. It's quite a common occurence and it's well documented.

To suggest it is sleep paralysis is not the same as suggesting it is alien abduction

Ninjamonkey

al28283 wrote: »

But it's not, all the evidence points to it being sleep paralysis, it sounds exactly like it, all the signs point to it being that. It's quite a common occurence and it's well documented.

To suggest it is sleep paralysis is not the same as suggesting it is alien abduction

Ok, I can see that point of view, in that the more likely explanation would be sleep paralysis. However there are some key differences, which if you read the accounts of alien abduction are also present. - ( this is the differential which is being conveniently ignored)

For example the bright light, the communication, Sitting up awake in bed, and seeing the light recede through a wall. - these things may not typically happen with Sleep paralysis.

Of course, again I go to pains to point out, that I am not offering any explanation for the experience, i am simply saying that I am more open to other possibilites than some folks.

al28283

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

For example the bright light, the communication, Sitting up awake in bed, and seeing the light recede through a wall. - these things may not typically happen with Sleep paralysis.

They are all actually quite common during sleep paralysis

al28283

Take a look at this, it describes the OP's experience almost perfectly.
Even the picture of a creature sitting on the womans chest is just like the OP's description of "some kinda force that feels like it is kneeling on your chest" and the mentions of hallucinations and the feeling of something evil being in the room. The Op's experience is almost a textbook description of sleep paralysis

http://www.wikihow.com/Cope-with-Sleep-Paralysis

al28283

Here's another description of it, exactly describing everything the OP did

"Although sleep paralysis is a symptom of narcolepsy, it is also common in healthy people. Surveys from different countries show a wide range of estimates: 20 to 60 percent of the normal adult population has experienced sleep paralysis at least once. Around 5 percent of the population has experienced one or more of other disturbing symptoms associated with the disorder. The most common effects include visual hallucinations, such as shadows and light or a human or animal figure in the room, and auditory hallucinations, such as hearing voices or footsteps. A person often also feels pressure on his or her chest and has difficulty breathing.
The reason sleep paralysis may explain tales of ghosts and aliens is the strong sense of a presence, usually harmful, that victims commonly feel during an attack. They also report unusual kinesthetic sensations, such as feelings of being dragged out of bed, vibrating, flying or falling. These episodes can sometimes lead to full-blown out-of-body experiences. Sleep paralysis may be frightening, but it is never dangerous, and thankfully, episodes usually last only a few seconds."


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ask-the-brains-sleep-paralysis

Ninjamonkey

Hmm..

So how do we have sleep paralysis while driving, or while a police officer is on duty, or driving a tractor .... and not lying asleep in bed.

http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/junk_science_paralysis.html

Again, the now mandatory disclaimer : - i am not offering explanations, simply accepting other possibilities.

al28283

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

Hmm..

So how do we have sleep paralysis while driving, or while a police officer is on duty, or driving a tractor .... and not lying asleep in bed.

http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/junk_science_paralysis.html

Again, the now mandatory disclaimer : - i am not offering explanations, simply accepting other possibilities.

well personally I've never heard of sleep paralysis happening like mentioned there, and I don't believe it would be possible as I understand it. but I would have to question the source of that report as its clearly from a pro-UFO standpoint and is going to great lengths to discredit science.

Ninjamonkey

al28283 wrote: »

well personally I've never heard of sleep paralysis happening like mentioned there, and I don't believe it would be possible as I understand it. but I would have to question the source of that report as its clearly from a pro-UFO standpoint and is going to great lengths to discredit science.

Of course, and a healthy skepticism, is what is needed. We can never believe blindly, and must question,question, research and question. But if so much as one in all the many thousands of reported accounts are in fact true, then it blows away the paradigm that Extraterrestrial or interdimensional existance is ridiculous and unreasonable.

King Mob

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

Hmm..

So how do we have sleep paralysis while driving, or while a police officer is on duty, or driving a tractor .... and not lying asleep in bed.

http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/junk_science_paralysis.html

Again, the now mandatory disclaimer : - i am not offering explanations, simply accepting other possibilities.

None of us are using the idea of sleep paralysis to explain every single claim regardless of circumstance. Suggesting that anyone is, like the article does is a very silly, dishonest strawman.

To use the example of the Hill abduction quoted in the article, skeptics do not suggest sleep paralysis as an alternative explanation. We suggest other things such as them embellishing their report or them being influenced while they were "remembering" under hypnosis.

However the Op was in bed and asleep, exactly like in every instance of sleep paralysis.

Ninjamonkey

King Mob wrote: »

None of us are using the idea of sleep paralysis to explain every single claim regardless of circumstance. Suggesting that anyone is, like the article does is a very silly, dishonest strawman.

To use the example of the Hill abduction quoted in the article, skeptics do not suggest sleep paralysis as an alternative explanation. We suggest other things such as them embellishing their report or them being influenced while they were "remembering" under hypnosis.

However the Op was in bed and asleep, exactly like in every instance of sleep paralysis.

I think it is slightly disengenuous of you to suggest the article "does is a very silly, dishonest strawman". In the context of the NYT article, the headline was

ALIEN ABDUCTION? SCIENCE CALLS IT SLEEP PARALYSIS

This was attributing that all reported alien abduction cases are sleep paralysis. the reference to the Hill case among others, was simply to point out that not all cases CAN be attributed to that explanation. But like so many other debunkers, the key points are always omitted.

Also the Travis Walton case, i am sure the explanation there is delusional, embelishment, hallucination . Along with the other thousands of cases. If 10,000 more cases are reported, the debunkers (*note I dont use skeptics) will attribute them to another 10,000 explanations of delusion, embelishment, & hallucination.

King Mob

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

I think it is slightly disengenuous of you to suggest the article "does is a very silly, dishonest strawman". In the context of the NYT article, the headline was

ALIEN ABDUCTION? SCIENCE CALLS IT SLEEP PARALYSIS

This was attributing that all reported alien abduction cases are sleep paralysis. the reference to the Hill case among others, was simply to point out that not all cases CAN be attributed to that explanation. But like so many other debunkers, the key points are always omitted.

And none of us, nor even the article your article is attacking makes the claim that all instances can be explained with sleep paralysis.

Ninjamonkey wrote: »

Also the Travis Walton case, i am sure the explanation there is delusional, embelishment, hallucination . Along with the other thousands of cases. If 10,000 more cases are reported, the debunkers (*note I dont use skeptics) will attribute them to another 10,000 explanations of delusion, embelishment, & hallucination.

And you seem to have forgotten and left out the other explanations I pointed to that can lead people to believe something that isn't true.

It doesn't matter how many cases they are, they have to be judged on their own merits. And each time they are, they've all had much more likely more reasonable explanations.

Lefticus Loonaticus

King Mob wrote: »

So since they all held "very high level positions" I should just believe them without question?
Do these positions somehow make these people immune to the stuff that can make other people believe in something that isn't true?

And what, other than the unsupported assumptions that aliens abduct people connect those guys with the OP?

Your argument is assuming that alien abduction is ridiculous and unrealistic on the basis that such 'aliens' or other things related simply dont exist.

I was pointing out that theres plenty of credible evidence and research to show that such things do exist.

Alien abduction is only one issue in the broader field of ufology. All the different issues in ufology are related in some way.

Alien abduction does sound ridiculous, i do admit. But when 'ufos' have been proven beyond most reasonable doubt to both exist and to have been interacting with us, then the issue of alien abduction being possible is a greatly increased likelyhood.

Sleep paralysis is defo one of the contributing factors. But this still does not explain why thousands(dont know what the real figures are) of people from across the globe have reported some sort of interaction with what are called the 'grays'.

I doubt these people are all coincidently having the exact same dreams/nightmares.

I dont believe anything at face value and niether should you, but niether should we be ignorant of credible information when theres nothing dodgy about the people divulging it and they appear to be very genuine and without any agenda.

If i was a researcher of potential alien abductions, and i was of a '50/50' 'maybe real / most likely not real' persuation, and i subsequently came across information such as the national press club conferences and other info that has been coming out over the last ten years, i would be daft not to consider that because if this information, a whole lot more weight has been added to the stories of so-called abductees.

Torakx

How many of these coinciding stories are amongst populations without media where they may not be influenced by these ideas?
Its rhetorical in a sense, unless you actually have a rough number.

I just think its more likely the mind is creating these things to explain a terrifying experience.

Now if there were villagers in brazil rainforests and somewhere in africa that had no contact with civilisation, and i mainly mean tv's radios etc then i would be more likely to believe that theory has some merit.

enno99

King Mob wrote: »

And something very similar has happened to me, though my reaction was somewhat less dramatic.
What you are reporting has been reported by many other and has been studied quite thoroughly. And it sounds exactly like you were experiencing sleep paralysis.

So could you have been abducted

And are just misremembering. misrecalling what happened etc

Ninjamonkey

King Mob wrote: »

And none of us, nor even the article your article is attacking makes the claim that all instances can be explained with sleep paralysis.


And you seem to have forgotten and left out the other explanations I pointed to that can lead people to believe something that isn't true.

It doesn't matter how many cases they are, they have to be judged on their own merits. And each time they are, they've all had much more likely more reasonable explanations.

I would suggst this is simply not the case. Again you generalise, with "they've all had much more likely more reasonable explanations." This simply is not the case. There are many cases which defy any rational explanation, and no matter how hard the debunkers try to pigeon hole them into a "reasonable explanation", they simply do not fit.

It is precisely these cases which simply " do not compute" for a certain percentage of the population. they are fundamentally incapable of grasping the concept that they may not be able to explain away everything. its almost akin to a quasi religious fundamentalism of denial.

True skeptics approach each case, with no prejudice, investigate, and research to find the most logical, and rational conclusion. In most cases a logical, rational conclusion is reached, which can adequately explain the phenomenon in question.However, when no logical conclusion is reached, the case is deemed "unsolved", or "unexplained".

A true skeptic does not fear to reach a conclusion that leads them out of their comfort zone. Dr. J Allen Hynek was such a man.

He was originally a skeptic, who went into his investigations ready to disprove the existance of UFO's. Instead he found there was overwhelming evidence to support their existance, and he let the evidence lead him to a conclusion.

King Mob

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Your argument is assuming that alien abduction is ridiculous and unrealistic on the basis that such 'aliens' or other things related simply dont exist.

No, my argument is based on the fact that there is no evidence to support the existence of aliens or that they abduct people.

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Alien abduction does sound ridiculous, i do admit. But when 'ufos' have been proven beyond most reasonable doubt to both exist and to have been interacting with us, then the issue of alien abduction being possible is a greatly increased likelyhood.

So how specifically do you know that aliens abduct people?
Even if they exist, this is a different and separate matter to what their behaviour does. And the only things you can provide to support this connection is a baseless assumption or a useless logical loop.

King Mob

enno99 wrote: »

So could you have been abducted

And are just misremembering. misrecalling what happened etc

Yes, but there's no reason for me or you to conclude that.
There's nothing about my story (or the OPs) that isn't explained by sleep paralysis and there's nothing that requires there to be anything fantastical present.
So barring other evidence, the most likely conclusion is that it was sleep paralysis.