Landlord lost tenants property

Piriz

My landlord moved me into a different apartment in a complex while I was temporarily away for a few months without informing me. The agreement was for me to leave personal belongings in the apartment as I was returning. Upon my return, the landlord had moved me to a different apartment in the same complex and lots of my personal belongings were lost in the transfer, some items were damaged too. I have requested compensation in writing however my request has not been answered. I have not paid rent for the last 2 months as a result of this and I plan on moving out next week without paying, they can keep my deposit!

This is fair right? What do you advise?

StillWaters

Were you paying rent whilst you were away?

Solair

Was the lease still in effect while you were away ?
i.e. were you still paying rent as normal.

If a normal lease was in effect, it's really none of the landlord's business whether you were there or not and it would be totally irrelevant to the situation.

Save a genuine emergency, like a burst pipe, a gas leak, a fire or a serious maintenance issue, a break-in or something like that, the landlord would not have had any business entering the premises without your permission.

Moving you into another unit, without legal agreement from you, would probably nullify the lease anyway as the lease would be specific to the address and the apartment that you signed it for!

If I were you I would contact Threshold and the PRTB.

As for losing your belongings, I would say seek legal advice. If there is significant loss of valuables, you might need to consider recovering those costs.

However, if you had terminated the lease and had some kind of a loose agreement to store your furniture in the apartment, you would not really have the same level of protection as it would not be a rental agreement for a residential property i.e. it would be just renting storage space. It would depend on what you had agreed to!

quietsailor

Piriz wrote: »

My landlord moved me into a different apartment in a complex while I was temporarily away for a few months without informing me. The agreement was for me to leave personal belongings in the apartment as I was returning. Upon my return, the landlord had moved me to a different apartment in the same complex and lots of my personal belongings were lost in the transfer, some items were damaged too. I have requested compensation in writing however my request has not been answered. I have not paid rent for the last 2 months as a result of this and I plan on moving out next week without paying, they can keep my deposit!

This is fair right? What do you advise?

Fair - possibly - without meaning to be insulting we've only your side of the story. The items damaged or missing might only come to 50% of the value of 1 months rent - we don't know.

However - moving your items even ENTERING your property (except for an emergency eg leaking pipe) is a complete no-no in Ireland. There's no ambiguity about it, unless there was an emergency the LL can't enter without your permission. That's point 1 against the LL

BUT;
you've confused issues with the statement "The agreement was for me to leave personal belongings in the apartment as I was returning"

1. Is this written down anywhere/recorded/emailed. If it isn't recorded/written and signed there is no real agreement.
2. Did the written agreement state that the property would be left vacant and your belongings left there.
3. Did the written statement allow the LL to move your property if necessary?

Depending on your answers to those the LL can stand up in front of the PRTB and say that he had your permission to move the belongings and he never saw anything being damaged - he'd need a brass neck but it's possible - it could be your word against his. Do you have any receipts for those belongings? You can prove that way you owned them before you left.


Upon my return, the landlord had moved me to a different apartment in the same complex and lots of my personal belongings were lost in the transfer, some items were damaged too
Are you saying that the LL moved your property once while you were away and then a second time when you came back? Was the second move carried out with you there? If it was how did the items get damaged? Again he can say that he never touched them; that you/your friends damaged them yourself/selves and he's not responsible.


I have not paid rent for the last 2 months as a result of this and I plan on moving out next week without paying, they can keep my deposit!
This is your major mistake, if it comes before the PRTB they will look badly on you not paying rent, no matter what the arguements between you and the LL. The only time you can hold back rent money is;

1. If the LL is living abroad and your paying the 20% tax for him to the revenue
2. If there is a major safety issue in the property, you've repeatedly contacted the LL (by registered letter, email, text - it has to be verifiable) and the LL has done nothing. There seems to be a rule of thumb of a week for this being put forward on boards. - Unless it's one of those 2 reasons then no, you can't hold back rent

All-on-all unless your majorly down money for the items lost/damaged I would just leave things as you are. Unless you've proof he moved you and that he damaged goods the only verifiable thing in the argument is that you didn't pay 2 months rent - there will be no lodgement into this bank account.

One more thing, you can't value your belongings at their "new" price - you have to reduce their value according to their age - usually you knock off 20% for each year you've owned them (depreciation)

Solair

If it's outside the scope of a residential lease, you might be able to look at getting a solicitor involved.

However, you'd really want to be able to justify the outlay i.e. it'd want to be a lot of damaged goods.

Piriz

thanks for the replies everyone, i tried to just keep the story brief in my first post as i didn't want to make people read a too detailed story.

The agreement to leave my belongings was only verbal and has since been denied by the person who gave it.

I was not paying rent while I was away for the few months however they did retain my deposit.

They moved my belongings while I was away and placed them in storage in the complex. They did not notify me of the movement of my goods.

They accepted lots of my belongings were missing and replaced some items.

I requested compensation of 250euro for the items missing and damaged.

I made this request verbally twice, and was directed to email the manager and was given the email address which i did and never received a reply.

They have not followed this up for over a month.

What is the consequences of me not paying?

StillWaters

The landlord can pursue you for 2 months rent, and if you are leaving before the end of the tenancy, possibly for more.

As I see it, the landlord did not have a duty of care towards your goods.

What is likely to happen, is he won't bother pursuing you, wont compensate you further for lost goods, will keep the deposit, and a lesson learned on both sides.

Piriz

I am not leaving before the tenancy, I will be leaving them with my deposit however there will be aprox 6 weeks rent unpaid, I appreciate all the replies, i'm unsure of what to do...

edellc

dont think there is anything you can do, you were not living in the apartment nor where you paying rent, the apartments is not your personal storage place when you want to disappear for a few months nor is it the responsibility of the landlord to take care of your goods

if you wanted to leave your stuff there you should have been paying rent for the two months you where away end of

learn a lesson and move on if your not paying rent and not living there you cant leave your stuff there

the_syco

Piriz wrote: »

I was not paying rent while I was away

So you didn't pay rent but thought they would keep your apartment unoccupied? I think that there was miscommunication over the wording of this, as

Piriz wrote: »

They moved my belongings while I was away and placed them in storage in the complex.

which sounds like they moved your stuff to storage in the complex when you moved out.

FYI; many landlords would just dump everything into a skip if you went away and didn't pay rent.

djimi

I actually havent got the slightest clue what is going on here...

From my reading of this the OP basically buggered off for a couple of months without paying rent and then came back expecting their stuff to still be in the apartment; am I misunderstanding something or is this how its actually gone down?

Piriz

hi,
i am a student and this is private purpose built student accommodation , the amount of rent i pay weekly is based on the fact that i am not there for the full term, i pay slightly more per week based on the fact that i am not staying in the place for the full college year.
When i moved out temporarily for 2.5 months this was expected by the company and they knew I was returning. As i was returning I sought and was granted permission (verbally) to leave some belongings in the apartment. They kept my deposit while i was away...Upon my return they had put another person in my room, put my stuff in storage and did not inform me of this until I returned..at this point i noticed items had been lost and damaged..

I hope this helps clear things up..

Icepick

Lesson learned - you need proof of agreement, so it's best to have it in writing.

odds_on

Any leases of any worth specify that tenants should always insure their personal belonging and effects. Did you have your possessions insured?

The_Conductor

Piriz wrote: »

hi,
i am a student and this is private purpose built student accommodation , the amount of rent i pay weekly is based on the fact that i am not there for the full term, i pay slightly more per week based on the fact that i am not staying in the place for the full college year.
When i moved out temporarily for 2.5 months this was expected by the company and they knew I was returning. As i was returning I sought and was granted permission (verbally) to leave some belongings in the apartment. They kept my deposit while i was away...Upon my return they had put another person in my room, put my stuff in storage and did not inform me of this until I returned..at this point i noticed items had been lost and damaged..

I hope this helps clear things up..

Ok- you weren't there for the full term- however, if you seriously expected to leave belongings there while you were away- there would be an equal expectation on the part of the landlord/Management Company- that you would pay rent for the duration. It is unheard of for someone to leave for a couple of months, to come back- and expect their belongings to still be there. The landlord did more than they had to do moving your belongings into storage- most landlords would have dumped them. I don't mean to be harsh- but why on earth would they allow you to leave belongings there- leave for 2-3 months to where-ever, without paying rent, and then come back again? Perhaps I'm missing something here- but I am having trouble understanding why you think this would be allowed by anyone?

Piriz

hi smccarrick

please read post number 12 for further clarification...

I accept this arrangement is not the norm; nevertheless, they granted me permission to do this, and they charged me more money to have the ability to move out for 2 months and return. In effect I did pay for this.

Sorry I should have composed the first post with greater detail..

djimi

If you have something in writing to back up the agreement then you have grounds to go after them.

If you have nothing in writing them Im afraid its going to be very hard to prove your case.

Piriz

hi,

I don't have anything in writing but the rental agreement I was on entitles me to leave for up to 3 months per college year and come back. I dont intend to go after them, i owe them money, they havn't come after me since I requested compensation and I reckon i'll just leave letting them keep my deposit and the outstanding sum owed will be sufficient compensation for the loss of my goods..

djimi

You owe them money, yet you are looking for compensation from them?

Im sorry but I am utterly confused by this situation. If you owe them two months rent and they have your deposit (presumably a months rent?) then why on earth would you try and persue them for €250 in compensation when you probably owe them more than that for the second months rent which you owe? What exactly do you hope to gain from this?

If you want to sort this out properly then pay your rent up to date, which takes you out of being in the wrong in this situation, then discuss the lost property. Right now they hold the cards and you owe them money regardless.