Eden Hazard signs for Chelsea........ Or does he? *shifty eyes*

Blatter

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Yeah, it's an assumption, but I don't think it's far fetched to be honest. The guy is quality and with those two behind him he will be a serious threat to any defence. If Chelsea want rid, I would love to see him at City.

He's been at Chelsea 18 months now and has yet to score a decisive goal in a game (yes, the Barcelona one was important but not decisive) and has managed 12 goals in 67 appearances which include 3 v QPR, 2 v Leicester and 2 v Genk. That is a pretty appalling record and I'd have to say that the chances of him returning to anything like his best form on a consistent basis are extremely slim at this stage.

GavRedKing

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

It's been two years since he was any good, bar brief flashes of genius against Chelsea (for Liverpool) and Leicester...

This is why I love opinions, so you've seen every game hes played?

How do you define a flash of genuis? I can think of a few off the top of my head from this year alone.

Red Crow

Chelsea

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Are they really though? I thought alot of Chelsea's form last year had to do with the whole AVB debacle. What do they need? A RB and a CM maybe? I'm a little amazed at how everyone has completely written off Torres too, but I'm sure nobody will have doubted him next year when he starts to score for fun. My opinion obviously.

Their 'form' didn't turn around under Di Matteo either. It improved but didn't turn around.

I'd have serious question marks over Luiz, Terry and Cahill forming a partnership that is part of a side that wins the Premier League. Ashley Cole was poor for a lot of this season too but turned into a big game player against Barcelona and Bayern Munich. But he was poor against the lesser teams.

Personally I don't rate Mikel at all and Essien is a shadow of his former self. I think it's in the bottom half of the pitch Chelsea should be looking to strengthen.

Although if Spurs lose some of their key players then the top four should be an easy guess, including Chelsea.

DoctorGonzo08

Blatter wrote: »

He's been at Chelsea 18 months now and has yet to score a decisive goal in a game (yes, the Barcelona one was important but not decisive) and has managed 12 goals in 67 appearances which include 3 v QPR, 2 v Leicester and 2 v Genk. That is a pretty appalling record and I'd have to say that the chances of him returning to anything like his best form on a consistent basis are extremely slim at this stage.

Yet how many games has he set up decisive goals for chelsea? He was not given the service that suits his style of play and neither Drogba or Sturridge partnered him, instead both played the spearhead role. Be this manager instructions or not. He was forced out wide to recieve the ball and was instrumental in setting up plays in the same light as Modric did at Spurs. He may not get the assist all the time he is the 2nd last pass.

I think service to him is the key, which he didn't recieve at Chelsea thus far. But with Mata and Hazard playing with him, you will se a much different Torres.

Of course there is always the chance that this won't happen, but you'd be foolish to undermine the pedigree of Torres as a striker.

thebison

Looking forward to seeing Torres next season.

**** or Bust!

DoctorGonzo08

Eli Manning wrote: »

Their 'form' didn't turn around under Di Matteo either. It improved but didn't turn around.

I'd have serious question marks over Luiz, Terry and Cahill forming a partnership that is part of a side that wins the Premier League. Ashley Cole was poor for a lot of this season too but turned into a big game player against Barcelona and Bayern Munich. But he was poor against the lesser teams.

Personally I don't rate Mikel at all and Essien is a shadow of his former self. I think it's in the bottom half of the pitch Chelsea should be looking to strengthen.

Although if Spurs lose some of their key players then the top four should be an easy guess, including Chelsea.

While I agree with you about Luiz, Terry and Cole are proven top quality defenders. The main downside to Terry being he is hateful. Everyone suffers from a dip in form, but to write them off after consistantly producing at the top level for years is ridiculous.

Mikel is hit and miss, but started the season excellent for Chelsea. Essien is coming back of lengthy injury so can you be suprised he is a 'shadow of his former self'? See what he is like after a pre season fully fit. Romeu is another replacement they have in that position who looks very good.

Ramires has been excellent this year, as has Meireles.

So I go back to my original statement. What do they need apart from a RB and/or CM?

Blatter

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Yet how many games has he set up decisive goals for chelsea? He was not given the service that suits his style of play and neither Drogba or Sturridge partnered him, instead both played the spearhead role. Be this manager instructions or not. He was forced out wide to recieve the ball and was instrumental in setting up plays in the same light as Modric did at Spurs. He may not get the assist all the time he is the 2nd last pass.

I think service to him is the key, which he didn't recieve at Chelsea thus far. But with Mata and Hazard playing with him, you will se a much different Torres.

Of course there is always the chance that this won't happen, but you'd be foolish to undermine the pedigree of Torres as a striker.

Well tbh I couldn't really care less about his assists or assists of assists. We're discussing the possibly of him returning to the Torres of old, which was primarily a goal scoring machine.

But while we're at it, I think Torres general play at Chelsea has been awful for the most part. More often than not he's had his head down and ran into dead ends or lost possession with awful passes. He has had a few spells where his general play has been good/very good, maybe around 3 months ago for around a 6 week period and another few patches here and there. Other than that, it has been pretty diabolical.

I'm not completely writing him off, there is a possibility that he does return to somewhere near his best but all I'm saying is that the chances of that are pretty remote as things stand.

Red Crow

Chelsea

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

While I agree with you about Luiz, Terry and Cole are proven top quality defenders. The main downside to Terry being he is hateful. Everyone suffers from a dip in form, but to write them off after consistantly producing at the top level for years is ridiculous.

Mikel is hit and miss, but started the season excellent for Chelsea. Essien is coming back of lengthy injury so can you be suprised he is a 'shadow of his former self'? See what he is like after a pre season fully fit. Romeu is another replacement they have in that position who looks very good.

Ramires has been excellent this year, as has Meireles.

So I go back to my original statement. What do they need apart from a RB and/or CM?

What do they need? They need a DM and two solid CB. Calling Meireles excellent is loltastic. Also they don't have a striker scoring goals now Drogba is gone. Cech, Ivanovic, Cole, Mata and Hazard. They rest is largely replaceable. I don't see how a trio of Hazard, Mata and Ramires works seeing how Ramires plays for Chelsea.

Through the middle of the pitch Chelsea are weak.

DoctorGonzo08

Blatter wrote: »

Well tbh I couldn't really care less about his assists or assists of assists. We're discussing the possibly of him returning to the Torres of old, which was primarily a goal scoring machine.

But while we're at it, I think Torres general play at Chelsea has been awful for the most part. More often than not he's had his head down and ran into dead ends or lost possession with awful passes. He has had a few spells where his general play has been good/very good, maybe around 3 months ago for around a 6 week period and another few patches here and there. Other than that, it has been pretty diabolical.

I'm not completely writing him off, there is a possibility that he does return to somewhere near his best but all I'm saying is that the chances of that are pretty remote as things stand.

At the end of the day it's just opinions, and both ours are differeing. You have said there was a 'spell' where he was very good. Was this the same spell where he was consistantly strated? Your argument is very vague.

DoctorGonzo08

Eli Manning wrote: »

What do they need? They need a DM and two solid CB. Calling Meireles excellent is loltastic. Also they don't have a striker scoring goals now Drogba is gone. Cech, Ivanovic, Cole, Mata and Hazard. They rest is largely replaceable. I don't see how a trio of Hazard, Mata and Ramires works seeing how Ramires plays for Chelsea.

Through the middle of the pitch Chelsea are weak.

Cech
RB Ivanovic Terry Cole
Ramires CM Essien
Hazard Torres Mata

I have added a 'picture' to back up what I have said twice already. How is Terry not a solid CB? Who will you replace him with? You ignored my comments about Essien. And Torres and Sturridge won't score goals? If you are being realistic they have quite a strong team.

Then again you can be unrealistic and say:

Cech
Ivanovic Silva Hummels Cole
Iniesta Yaya Snejder
Hazard Messi Mata

Dempsey

Man City

After reading about the 'burger incident', its clear that he has a bigger ego problem than I thought. Still, its not a patch on Islam Feruz. Ambramovich likes to make life as difficult as possible for his managers!

Sgt Pepper 64

Blatter wrote: »

Well tbh I couldn't really care less about his assists or assists of assists. We're discussing the possibly of him returning to the Torres of old, which was primarily a goal scoring machine.

But while we're at it, I think Torres general play at Chelsea has been awful for the most part. More often than not he's had his head down and ran into dead ends or lost possession with awful passes. He has had a few spells where his general play has been good/very good, maybe around 3 months ago for around a 6 week period and another few patches here and there. Other than that, it has been pretty diabolical.

I'm not completely writing him off, there is a possibility that he does return to somewhere near his best but all I'm saying is that the chances of that are pretty remote as things stand.

I'm with you Blatter on Torres. Chelsea would be mad to rely on him, and despite what they say publicy, I can see another striker coming in.
Ive heard enough excuses for 1.5 years and if a young lad played out of position can score 13 goals and 7 assists in his first year, then questions need to be asked

We should be backing Danny and giving him the right coaching to curb his "greedy" excesses, but thats not the Chelsea way, we will spend big on another striker. Marin is also one who needs to be coached and accused of being greedy as was Messi in his early days.
We need the right manager to develop these players
Danny is young english, cost only 7 million and is "only" on 70k a week

BTW Danny S outscored Drogba in the league and Drogba only averaged 11-13 goals in 8 of those seasons

A striker is bought to score goals end of.

Next season is Torres last chance saloon and it woud be nice if he could actually reach double figures

aidan24326

I've only seen bits and pieces of this hazard fella. Is he actually that good? Seems to be an awful lot of hyoe about him.

As for Torres, he looks a busted flush to me, and I don't think we'll ever see him back to the form he showed at Liverpool. He looks out of place at Chelsea and it would be in the interests of both parties if he moved on.

GavRedKing

Torres will get until Janaury and if he hasnt improved he'll be sold or loaned out.

He has the Euro's and until January to prove to a lot of people that hes still got it.

BTW, I'd tend to stand by him, he'll come good next year and be our top scorer.

plasmaguy

Torres looked sharp for the few minutes of the CL final.

It's possible with Drogba leaving, he will come into his own. I don't think he can lead the line as well as Drogba though.

Drogba will be a massive loss to Chelsea. His heading ability alone from defending and attacking corners was top notch, also capable of the odd free kick.

GavRedKing

plasmaguy wrote: »

Torres looked sharp for the few minutes of the CL final.

It's possible with Drogba leaving, he will come into his own. I don't think he can lead the line as well as Drogba though.

Drogba will be a massive loss to Chelsea. His heading ability alone from defending and attacking corners was top notch, also capable of the odd free kick.

Ya, I dont think anybody can replace Drogba.

I posted it in the Drogba thread that he was one of our best defenders for free kicks and corners, he cleared his lines very well.

Torres, is everybody knows well doesnt have some of the strengths that Drogba has and vice versa for Drogba.

I hope Torres can do it next year, he wont be looking over his shoulder at the potetinal of Drogba coming in which could ease his fears or make him rest on his laurels, it remains to be seen but from what he was saying after the UCL he really wants to make a stab of it.

Will I Amnt

gavredking wrote: »

I hope Torres can do it next year, he wont be looking over his shoulder at the potetinal of Drogba coming in which could ease his fears or make him rest on his laurels, it remains to be seen but from what he was saying after the UCL he really wants to make a stab of it.

Torres doesn't have any laurels to rest on at Chelsea.
He might have shown some improvement and picked up silverware but he'll know himself he didn't contribute much to it.

It's been a disastrous transfer when you look at it overall,he needs to break his bollox to make up for it this season.

GavRedKing

cambo2008 wrote: »

Torres doesn't have any laurels to rest on at Chelsea.
He might have shown some improvement and picked up silverware but he'll know himself he didn't contribute much to it.

It's been a disastrous transfer when you look at it overall,he needs to break his bollox to make up for it this season.

3 Managers in 18 months didnt help him either. Carlo never loked like he wanted him.

AVB gave him a chance and RDM gave him some opportunities to.

Torres should get to 20 overall goals next season.

Skylinehead

gavredking wrote: »

3 Managers in 18 months didnt help him either. Carlo never loked like he wanted him.

AVB gave him a chance and RDM gave him some opportunities to.

Torres should get to 20 overall goals next season.

Lets be honest, a 50 million pound striker should be expected to get at least that in the league alone.

GavRedKing

Skylinehead wrote: »

Lets be honest, a 50 million pound striker should be expected to get at least that in the league alone.

Easier said then done, no matter what the prices involved, but he has the talent and ability to do it.

LuckyLloyd

If Torres makes 50+ starts next season and gets 20+ goals in all competitions it will have been a brilliant comeback season to be perfectly honest. Yeah, it would be less than he was signed to do - but considering how things have gone so far it would be a massive step in the right direction...

Will I Amnt

gavredking wrote: »

3 Managers in 18 months didnt help him either. Carlo never loked like he wanted him.

AVB gave him a chance and RDM gave him some opportunities to.

Torres should get to 20 overall goals next season.

I'm not too sold on that tbh.
There's players at clubs that don't get on with managers,there's players at clubs that want to be at other clubs and you wouldn't know by their performances.
He was really poor with Spain also.

GavRedKing

cambo2008 wrote: »

I'm not too sold on that tbh.
There's players at clubs that don't get on with managers,there's players at clubs that want to be at other clubs and you wouldn't know by their performances.
He was really poor with Spain also.

Like?

Will I Amnt

gavredking wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

I'm not too sold on that tbh.
There's players at clubs that don't get on with managers,there's players at clubs that want to be at other clubs and you wouldn't know by their performances.
He was really poor with Spain also.

Like?

Hmmm!!
Man City spring to mind.
Modric springs to mind.

GavRedKing

cambo2008 wrote: »

Hmmm!!
Man City spring to mind.
Modric springs to mind.

So Tevez and Modric, either hardly had excellent seasons.

Will I Amnt

gavredking wrote: »

So Tevez and Modric, either hardly had excellent seasons.

Torres level of incompetence last season doesn't even compare.
I don't want to get bogged down too much more on this,it is a thread about Hazard after all.

DoctorGonzo08

cambo2008 wrote: »

Hmmm!!
Man City spring to mind.
Modric springs to mind.

Course it does. That Norwich game proved Tevez's performances. He did sweet FA for City this year. Comparing the two Torres has contributed far more to Chelsea's season.

Will I Amnt

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Course it does.

?????.
What are you trying to get at there??

Tevez,as much as I despise him didn't spend a season fluffing his lines at every opportunity,missing open goals and generally not being able to hit a cows arse with a banjo.
Torres was not ostracised and didn't have to try and come back from a long lay-off and regain match-fitness.

He may well get back to the form of a couple of seasons ago,I wouldn't bet on it.
The excuses are a little tiresome at this stage.

Lord TSC

Man City

Hmm, Paddy Powers havent paid out on Hazard bets yet. Presuming they are waiting till its 100% official (IE that Chelsea themselves confirm it).

DoctorGonzo08

cambo2008 wrote: »

I'm not too sold on that tbh.
There's players at clubs that don't get on with managers,there's players at clubs that want to be at other clubs and you wouldn't know by their performances.

Your original comment.

cambo2008 wrote: »

Tevez,as much as I despise him didn't spend a season fluffing his lines at every opportunity,missing open goals and generally not being able to hit a cows arse with a banjo.

No, he spent the majority of the season AWOL. Therefore NO contribution to the team. Torres did contribute to the team. There is no comparison there at all.

Torres did have a disappointing season, which I was honestly surprised by. There have been a lot of excuses, but you have to consider some of them are genuine. Writing him off is a bit overkill. Give him an oppurtunity, support and till Christmas anyway. If he can't produce with Mata and Hazard then I'll conceed he has flopped. But it really will take that for me not to believe the guy can't get a 20+ goal season next year.

When you actually compare him to the other Chelsea strikers this season, he's not that far off.

Drogba - 14 Goals & 3 Assists in 36 Games
Sturridge - 14 Goals & 3 Assists in 42 Games
Torres - 12 Goals & 6 Assists in 49 Games

Mata - 12 Goals & 3 Assists in 52 Games
Lampard - 14 Goals & 3 Assists in 36 Games
Ramires - 12 Goals & 8 Assists in 46 Games
Meireles - 6 Goals & 14 Assists in 45 Games

Samich

Chelsea

I thought this was the Hazard thread and not the Chelsea one?

Will I Amnt

@DoctorGonzo.
I'm not arguing their contribution.
I'm talking exclusively form

Forget it anyway,this has gone way off topic and we're getting nowhere with it.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

GavRedKing

Any idea on what number Hazard will get?

You'd pressume its 11?

Flincher

Drogba leaving means 11 is free.

I wonder will Mikel give up 12 for Hulk?

GavRedKing

Flincher wrote: »

Drogba leaving means 11 is free.

I wonder will Mikel give up 12 for Hulk?

Free numbers at the moment are 11, 13, 14, 17, 21, 25, 28, 29, 31-33, 35-39, 41, 42.

Theres a few reserve players that have numbers up to the high 50's also.

So Marin, Hazard, De Bruyne all need numbers, if we take Courtois back he'll need a number.

Hazard -11
De Bruyne -14
Marin - 21/13
Courtios - 13

Paully D

Can't believe he chose Chelsea over Sunderland. No ambition at all. I'm glad we didn't sign him now.

Sgt Pepper 64

gavredking wrote: »

Free numbers at the moment are 11, 13, 14, 17, 21, 25, 28, 29, 31-33, 35-39, 41, 42.

Theres a few reserve players that have numbers up to the high 50's also.

So Marin, Hazard, De Bruyne all need numbers, if we take Courtois back he'll need a number.

Hazard -11
De Bruyne -14
Marin - 21/13
Courtios - 13

He can have Malouda's

Courtois will stay on loan IMO but cant play in the super cup against us

kryogen

Chelsea

Strange that he didn't actually go to City really, I'd have to draw the conclusion that City refused to meet some of his agents demands, not out of the question considering City don't need him as much as Chelsea, he was clearly under the impression himself that he would be plying his trade in Manchester, but refusing to say which one in his always cute way of dealing with the media. (Was always going to be City)

There is a theory that maybe due to the media crap and his demands that he kinda painted himself into a corner and was left with little option but to go to Chelsea. His media interviews since have been quite funny

Having said that I am sure he will be a very good signing for Chelsea and they have done quite well to get him.

DARK-KNIGHT

Man City

He went for the money that is all and it says it all about his character!!!



KAGAWA

homer simpson

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

He went for the money that is all and it says it all about his character!!!



KAGAWA

Simple question, who is the better player? Kagawa or Hazard....

willmunny1990

homer_simpson wrote: »

Simple question, who is the better player? Kagawa or Hazard....

At the moment Kagawa is better. He's been consistently good in the Bundesliga which is imo a higher quality league than Ligue 1.

homer simpson

willmunny1990 wrote: »

At the moment Kagawa is better. He's been consistently good in the Bundesliga which is imo a higher quality league than Ligue 1.

I guarantee you if the roles were reversed it would be the other way around. We will see at the end of the season I suppose but Hazard >>>>Kagawa IMO.

kryogen

Chelsea

I don't think Hazard is streets ahead of Kagawa tbh, I am more then happy with the signing, Hazard is an incredibly talented player but the only reason I can see for people to think he is so much better then Kagawa is the hype machine.

Kagawa has performed brilliantly for Dortmund in a tough division consistently, some would say he has performed on a higher level consistently better then Hazard, I have watched a lot of him and he does have something special about him, same as Hazard, suppose time will tell, but I am delighted to have the player with the better attitude and not as much of an ego coming.

Both have the tools needed to be superstars. There is not much between them right now either way though tbh

Sgt Pepper 64

kryogen wrote: »

I don't think Hazard is streets ahead of Kagawa tbh, I am more then happy with the signing, Hazard is an incredibly talented player but the only reason I can see for people to think he is so much better then Kagawa is the hype machine.

Kagawa has performed brilliantly for Dortmund in a tough division consistently, some would say he has performed on a higher level consistently better then Hazard, I have watched a lot of him and he does have something special about him, same as Hazard, suppose time will tell, but I am delighted to have the player with the better attitude and not as much of an ego coming.

Both have the tools needed to be superstars. There is not much between them right now either way though tbh

I agree with your main point about how close both players are in talent.
However I dont agree about your assumption that Hazard has a big ego.
He is known for having a sense of humour and I think that his self generated publicity was more humour than ego. Certainly in his subsequent interviews, he comes across as anything but.

Both players are weak defensively and thats something that is expected in the league they are coming.

Kagawa, for me, presents more problems for Utd than Hazard.
For Utd to get the best from him , they will have to change their formation and style of play, and play him in the position that Rooney generally plays best in.

Hazard does have some overlap with Mata, but will get a lot more games I think, basically because we need to rest Mata and we dont have enough creative winger attacker types like Utd.

Theres no doubt that Hazard was Utd's No 1 choice, Utd put a lot into meeting and watching him, but Kagawa could prove a shrewd move

I think Ferguson has been planning a change of formation/tactics and Kagawa has been recruited to be an integral part of it.

djPSB

Sacramento wrote: »

I think Ferguson has been planning a change of formation/tactics and Kagawa has been recruited to be an integral part of it.

Ferguson has used the same formation for the past 20 years. Can't see him changing now.

Sgt Pepper 64

djPSB wrote: »

Ferguson has used the same formation for the past 20 years. Can't see him changing now.

After he lost to Barca, he did say something about a change - after watching Chelsea, maybe he figures Kagawa is good in defence!

djPSB

djPSB wrote: »

Ferguson has used the same formation for the past 20 years. Can't see him changing now.

You could be right, though he did mention a possible change in how European games will be approached so we'll see. Also, he hasn't just employed one formation for every single game he's played for the past 20 years.

djPSB

Sacramento wrote: »

You could be right, though he did mention a possible change in how European games will be approached so we'll see. Also, he hasn't just employed one formation for every single game he's played for the past 20 years.

He did try Rooney in mid field last season for a few games.