Sir Patrick Moore attacks Germany he still HATES it after 70 years

foxyboxer

So he's advocating a genocide of the entire German race?

That's what I take from his views on the Germany sinking analogy.

What's really happening is that the DM reporters are using such an iconic figure
and used his outdated views to fuel it's anti-european agenda.

Sound of Silence

If you forgive Moore for his outburst, then you're pretty much forgiving every other class A bigot out there for their antiquated views.

It's possible to be old and rational...

mikemac1

Probably some elderly Germans in Dresden thinking the same about him seeing as he was in the bomber section of the RAF

Morlar

Stinicker wrote: »

Wow, political correctness has gone full circle it seems it is now not ok to hate the Nazis anymore. Moore is a legend and is not afraid of the liberals and speaks his mind, fair play to him, he maybe 89 but he is lightyears ahead of this generation of people.

He was talking about Germans.

My name is URL

Sound of Silence wrote: »

If you forgive Moore for his outburst, then you're pretty much forgiving every other class A bigot out there for their antiquated views.

It's possible to be old and rational...

So he should never be forgiven for never forgiving?

foxyboxer

mikemac1 wrote: »

Probably some elderly Germans in Dresden thinking the same about him seeing as he was in the bomber section of the RAF

My point exactly. Dresden and the war crimes committed by Bomber command are for another thread entirely.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Thrill

The Germans wont give a toss what he thinks, their too busy with their current attempt to control all of Europe.

Stinicker

Morlar wrote: »

He was talking about Germans.

Angela Merkel, Joseph Ratzinger..... same same to me

foxyboxer

Sound of Silence wrote: »

If you forgive Moore for his outburst, then you're pretty much forgiving every other class A bigot out there for their antiquated views.

It's possible to be old and rational...

It's like some British family who lost a loved one during the 'Troubles' in an IRA bomb attack, absolutely despising every fibre of my or your being simply because we're Irish.

Reminds me of a sports journalist who became somewhat addicted to the Championship Manager game. One of the players (Micah Richards iirc) was on one of the teams he was 'managing'. Now the virtual Micah was going through a bad patch of form, being undisciplined, asking for transfer requests. Being a classic pima donna. The journalist subsequently met the real Micah Richards at some event or other and mentioned that while he couldn't have been a nicer guy, he just couldn't bring himself to forgive him because of his virtual antics!

NinjaK

Senile old fart, not surprising at the boards west brits not condemning it.

Sound of Silence

My name is URL wrote: »

So he should never be forgiven for never forgiving?

Are you trying to create a strawman?

So, you're arguing that I'm the intolerant one for expressing my distaste at Moore's clearly abhorrent views?

John Doe1

Who actually likes the germans anyway?

Zebra3

Ah, a British person hating another nation because they invaded other countries and had concentration camps.
:rolleyes:

Sound of Silence

John Doe1 wrote: »

Who actually likes the germans anyway?

You've met them all?

John Doe1

Sound of Silence wrote: »

You've met them all?

*Tongue in cheek* :rolleyes:

dan1895

I'm sure the citizens of Dresden feel the same towards him. or maybe they're not a bunch of bigoted morons. I don't know.

bwatson

Zebra3 wrote: »

Ah, a British person hating another nation because they invaded other countries and had concentration camps.
:rolleyes:

Did you read the article? He hates the Germans because he holds them responsible for killing the only woman he has ever loved. I can't understand the way he feels (and hopefully never will have to) but I certainly won't come here and start calling him a loser, a fool, a senile old man etc when he had to suffer the most horrific of personal losses and yet went of to become such a prominent and respected figure in his field. A British icon.

bwatson

NinjaK wrote: »

Senile old fart, not surprising at the boards west brits not condemning it.

Slightly ironic post, no?

It wasn't me!

You know, it's possible to judge what he says without criticising his achievements, right? Holding the descendants or geographical origin of the people who wronged you responsible 70 years after the fact is fúcking stupid, no matter who you are. Any rational person would recognise this and escape the blinkers of personal tragedy. It's not logical or sensible.

My name is URL

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Are you trying to create a strawman?

So, you're arguing that I'm the intolerant one for expressing my distaste at Moore's clearly abhorrent views?

It's not really a strawman. You suggested that forgiving him for holding such abhorrent views is tacit acceptance of those same views. You don't have to accept or agree with them in order to forgive the person for holding them.

Eggonyerface

RGDATA! wrote: »

link?

It's a well know fact that "pearl harbour" was trending the day of the earthquakes in Japan..

A quick google...
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/03/facebook_imbeci.php

golden lane

a very sad rant from an old man........shame that he could not forgive and forget, and go on to lead a happy life without hate....

i hope he does not set an example to others.......time should always be a great healer.....and what a burden to carry for all those years.....

Sound of Silence

My name is URL wrote: »

It's not really a strawman. You suggested that forgiving him for holding such abhorrent views is tacit acceptance of those same views. You don't have to accept or agree with them in order to forgive the person for holding them.

Moore is a highly intelligent public figure.

With that in mind, I can't simply forgive him for his irrational views, as I would personally expect a lot more from him.

Pushtrak

RGDATA! wrote: »

link?

A link about people comparing the tsunami to pearl harbour? Well, there was a lot of people on facebook saying (or asking if) it was.
http://digg.com/news/technology/facebook_imbeciles_think_japan_tsunami_is_karmic_payback_for_pearl_harbor

Thrill

He admitted there ‘can be good, free, honourable, decent Germans’ only to add: ‘I haven’t met them myself, but I’m sure they exist.’


He continued: ‘I’m no European. Why? Go to Europe and look around. The Germans tried to conquer us. The French betrayed us. The Belgians did very little and the Italians made us our ice cream.


‘Just look at the world now and look at it when we had a bigger say in it. The English are best. Stand up for England!’

Fcuk, this guy seems to be bitter at everyone, not just Germans.

He's in dire need of a chill-pill enema.

smellslikeshoes

He's 89 years old, once you get to that age you're allowed to be an old crank.

comeback_kid

golden lane wrote: »

a very sad rant from an old man........shame that he could not forgive and forget, and go on to lead a happy life without hate....

i hope he does not set an example to others.......time should always be a great healer.....and what a burden to carry for all those years.....

easier said than done , be thankfull you were never placed in such a possition , cliches dont apply to every scenario and outcome

goose2005

Shryke wrote: »

He has an actual real personal grievance and it isn't unjustified.

So if the Nazis had only killed people who he didn't know personally, he wouldn't be so angry?

Because it seems like history to most doesn't make it so for him.

Yes, it does make it so.

Without getting into the nitty gritty the war was with the state if Germany, not just some German guy and I don't think it is in any way pathetic for him to be angry or hateful.

But if he had happened to be born a German citizen he'd have been forced to join the Wehrmacht

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

He's also not the only one - Senator John McCain has a fairly healthy lack of respect against Vietnam seeing as he was a guest in one of their torture centers.

Against the Viet Cong, maybe, which is not the same thing as Vietnam, or ordinary Vietnamese people. About a million Vietnamese fought on the same side as the US

Dangerous Man

People will argue about anything.

Show Time

I like the fact he is not afraid to speak his mind.

Xivilai

I really think he went a bit too far with the whole kill all krauts thing

Earthhorse

It's very easy for people to think that, had they grown up in Nazi Germany they wouldn't have ended up a Nazi themselves, however unwillingly. And it's easy to think if you lost a loved one to them that you'd be able to move on, to forgive and forget, but the truth is you wouldn't have a clue how you'd behave in such circumstances unless they actually happened because there's nothing really analogous to them.

Moore is dead wrong, of course; his view is bigoted and racist, plain and simple. But it is also understandable.

Dermighty

Let him be bitter, there's not much harm in it.

The only thing that's incredulous about that whole scenario is that he managed to make it national news.

foxyboxer

Domo230 wrote: »

He saw his country bombed into oblivion, his friends,family and fellow RAF members dying around him and he lost his fiancée. The nerve of people on here judging him. None of us have even the slightest notion of what it must have been like to go through such horrors. Those who judge him should kindly keep their mouths shut and be glad they never had to experience those dark and terrible days.

German mothers lost sons.
A British man lost his fiancee.
Italian fathers lost daughters.
Japanese children were lost in atomic explosions.

etc

foxyboxer

Icepick wrote: »

Just goes to show that you can be both intelligent and a moron.

Would that be an Oxymoron perhaps?

Intelligently stupid.

St.Spodo

Domo230 wrote: »

He saw his country bombed into oblivion, his friends,family and fellow RAF members dying around him and he lost his fiancée. The nerve of people on here judging him. None of us have even the slightest notion of what it must have been like to go through such horrors. Those who judge him should kindly keep their mouths shut and be glad they never had to experience those dark and terrible days.

His argument has no logic. He hates a people for what their ancestors did. This holds no merit and no rational basis.

Earthhorse

St.Spodo wrote: »

His argument has no logic. He hates a people for what their ancestors did. This holds no merit and no rational basis.

This may come as a shock to you; but people are not purely logical.

My name is URL

St.Spodo wrote: »

His argument has no logic. He hates a people for what their ancestors did. This holds no merit and no rational basis.

He's not really making an argument though. It's just his deep-seated and personally held view.

Show Time

My name is URL wrote: »

He's not really making an argument though. It's just his deep-seated and personally held view.

More power to him for not being afraid to air his views.

St.Spodo

My name is URL wrote: »

He's not really making an argument though. It's just his deep-seated and personally held view.

Alright then, his 'views', which are shít.

It wasn't me!

Earthhorse wrote: »

This may come as a shock to you; but people are not purely logical.

No, we're not. That doesn't mean this is okay. The illogical nature of it makes it all the more worth challenging.

St.Spodo

Show Time wrote: »

More power to him for not being afraid to air his views.

His repugnant, racist views.

Dudess

Sigh, people are actually defending his irrational hate. Basic - really basic - intelligence would dictate that you don't hate the country a person is from based on that person's action.
There is nothing "understandable" about it whatsoever. It's the same kind of hatred that caused what happened.

Morlar wrote: »

Dirk Bogarde was the same, only without the dead fiancee. I believe he even refused to travel in the same elevator as a German.

Really? Thought Bogarde was a bit of a fan of Germany, seeing as he starred in a couple of German films - he always played a nazi too. Maybe he liked playing the role of someone he really hated.

My name is URL

Show Time wrote: »

More power to him for not being afraid to air his views.

I wouldn't go that far. He may have been better off keeping them to himself! If everybody aired all of their views, I reckon the world would be a tougher place to live. You wouldn't say 'more power' to that insane racist woman that lost it on a bus in Manchester!

golden lane

Domo230 wrote: »

He saw his country bombed into oblivion, his friends,family and fellow RAF members dying around him and he lost his fiancée. The nerve of people on here judging him. None of us have even the slightest notion of what it must have been like to go through such horrors. Those who judge him should kindly keep their mouths shut and be glad they never had to experience those dark and terrible days.

as i have lived with both sides ......forgiveness......or a least an acceptance, was the best thing to do.....

Dudess

My name is URL wrote: »

You wouldn't say 'more power' to that insane racist woman that lost it on a bus in Manchester!

Er... let Show Time answer that maybe... :pac:

FloatingVoter

Ever occur to anyone that he might be taking the piss ? This is AH after all, we should know a troll when we see one.

Ellis Dee

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

He's also not the only one - Senator John McCain has a fairly healthy lack of respect against Vietnam seeing as he was a guest in one of their torture centers.

I somehow don't expect the Vietnamese were all that gone on him or his ilk, either, considering that they were bombing the shit out of Vietnamese cities in an undeclared war of aggression and killing lots of woman and children in the process.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

As for Vietnamese "torture centers (sic)", that's what he claimed he was in - and built a lucrative political career on it - but he seems to be in pretty good physical shape nevertheless and is still going strong at a ripe old age. I'd say he was treated a hell of a lot better than a Vietnamese pilot who was shot down bombing Los Angeles would have been. Not to mention the poor buggers in Guantanamo. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Show Time

St.Spodo wrote: »

His repugnant, racist views.

But still his own views no one else's.

In this mad PC world it is a breath of fresh air to see a person being so honest. It must kill the poor fella to see the Germans finally ruling Europe after the effort Sir Patrick and so many other brave young men made to fight the the Germans in not one but two world wars.