Sir Patrick Moore attacks Germany he still HATES it after 70 years

Dr Bolouswki

I think it's reasonable to dislike the stereotype of "a people", without actually using that as a reason to hate "a person". Its important to recognise the cartoon generalisations though - so its more a postmodern ironic recognition of your own failings and limitations.

Saying you would let them all drown or whatever is a bit extreme, but sure what would life be like without a bit of hyperbole. I consider it poetic license.

St.Spodo

Show Time wrote: »

But still his own views no one else's.

In this mad PC world it is a breath of fresh air to see a person being so honest. It must kill the poor fella to see the Germans finally ruling Europe after the effort Sir Patrick and so many other brave young men made to fight the the Germans in not one but two world wars.

Political correctness is essentially treating people with respect. I don't know why it is so lamented; people just oppose it because they want to say nasty things.

It is also unfair to compare decent Germans of today with the Nazis. Grossly unfair, in fact.

Earthhorse

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No, we're not. That doesn't mean this is okay. The illogical nature of it makes it all the more worth challenging.

Never said it was okay. In fact, I explicitly said it was racist and bigoted. The fact that some people can't grasp that people hold opinions that are based in emotion rather than logic is what confounds me.

Dudess wrote: »

Sigh, people are actually defending his irrational hate. Basic - really basic - intelligence would dictate that you don't hate the country a person is from based on that person's action.
There is nothing "understandable" about it whatsoever. It's the same kind of hatred that caused what happened.

I love the way you put the word understandable in inverted commas as though it were special in some way. It is understandable, in that we can understand the roots of his biased views. That's not a defence of them, it's an explanation for them.

tfitzgerald

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Wait until he finds out about the Nazi bases on his precious Moon.

Made me LOL . this is the post of the year for me

Show Time

St.Spodo wrote: »

Political correctness is essentially treating people with respect. I don't know why it is so lamented; people just oppose it because they want to say nasty things.

It is also unfair to compare decent Germans of today with the Nazis. Grossly unfair, in fact.

The world has long since gone PC mad which is more the pity.

LH Pathe

Media whore...

catch a falling star

Dudess

Earthhorse, that wasn't aimed at you, honest. I'm not disputing people who offer an explanation as to why he says this stuff - just those who are essentially saying "well he's right" and isn't it great he's going against political correctness etc.
But while it's not hard to see why he holds such views and it's true we don't know what things were like for him, doesn't mean it can't be argued he's being absolutely hateful.

Show Time

Dudess wrote: »

Earthhorse, that wasn't aimed at you, honest. I'm not disputing people who offer an explanation as to why he says this stuff - just those who are essentially saying "well he's right" and isn't it great he's going against political correctness etc.
But while it's not hard to see why he holds such views and it's true we don't know what things were like for him, doesn't mean it can't be argued he's being absolutely hateful.

What way would you feel if you lost loved ones to a force of evil like the Nazis?

Would you be willing to forgive and forget??

Dudess

Show Time wrote: »

The world has long since gone PC mad which is more the pity.

To say this is one in the neck for political correctness is silly. Political correctness is tiptoe-ing around for fear of even slightly offending someone; it's not the avoidance of making baseless, hate-filled statements agains millions of people you've never met, including people who weren't even alive for WWII. Speaks volumes that you'd endorse the likes of his views. "You can't yell racist abuse without the PC brigade jumping on you" type bollocks tbh.

If a British person said similarly violent stuff against Irish people because of the IRA, would you deem it a victory against political correctness?

DonQuay1

Gnobe wrote: »

The guy who does the Sky at Night on the bbc.

Is he out of order here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137652/Patrick-Moore-says-hates-Germans-70-years-Nazi-bomb-killed-fianc-e.html

'The only good Kraut is a dead Kraut'

"if I saw the entire German nation sinking into the sea, I could be relied upon to help push it down."

I understand there's grieving and living with a lost relative (lost his wife in a Nazi bombing) and maybe thats his way with coping with it, but its still a bit pathetic.

I'm sure there are plenty of Irish people who think the same way about English people, I know I live up in the north and know some people judge me on my English accent and think twice about me, older people mainly, not younger.

Do you hold angst against any one particular nation?? Do hold those feelings towards protestants from the north or British people (or French people or German people?)

I know some Irish people still haven't gotten over Thierry Henry's handball, refuse to go on holiday there etc.

Coping?? Have YOU ever had someone you really loved .... murdered?? And then to equate that act with a soccer game and an .... accent? You need to become acquainted with RELEVANCE!!

Morlar

Dudess wrote: »

Sigh, people are actually defending his irrational hate. Basic - really basic - intelligence would dictate that you don't hate the country a person is from based on that person's action.
There is nothing "understandable" about it whatsoever. It's the same kind of hatred that caused what happened.

Really? Thought Bogarde was a bit of a fan of Germany, seeing as he starred in a couple of German films - he always played a nazi too. Maybe he liked playing the role of someone he really hated.

Nope not a fan at all. You could argue that playing those roles even made his career. He was in 2nd world war & claimed to have been there for the liberation of Bergen Belsen (though this was later discredited). I believe he was once* forced to shoot a grievously wounded allied soldier for whom nothing could be done. I wouldn't agree with Moore or Bogarde but it's not hard to imagine why deeply unsettling personal experiences would cause people to express such mass hatred. How true it actually is and how much of it is venting is another question.

* = Almost forced to shoot.

Dudess

Show Time wrote: »

What way would you feel if you lost loved ones to a force of evil like the Nazis?

Would you be willing to forgive and forget??

You appear to have gotten the wrong end of the stick - he says he hates all Germans, any of them, not just the nazis. Obviously it'd be completely different if he just said he hated the nazis - many of whom weren't German btw.

steddyeddy

Well as regards hating a person or nation its an emotions and I cant see how he can help how he feels. I never had anyone killed close to me by another nation so I cant imagine how it feels. Saying that his hatred probably is causing him more hurt than germans.

Delancey

Patrick Moore served as a navigator on a Lancaster with RAF Bomber Command in WW2 , indeed it was the use of celestial navigation techniques that gave him his first introduction to Astronomy ( I think his degree was Biology or something like that ).

When asked why he never married he tells the story that he was engaged to a Nurse who was killed in a German air raid and that marrying anyone else would be marrying '' second best '' - touching if true though the cynical bastard in me wonders if its not a convenient cover for a more , ahem , shall we say.....' controversial ' reason ?

Dostoevsky

Domo230 wrote: »

He saw his country bombed into oblivion....

What, was he Russian? Really?

Blitz and Battle of Britain combined death toll: 40,000 - 60,000 persons
Operation Barbarossa (Nazi invasion of Russia) death toll: c. 20 million persons

Somebody's been accepting far too many British nationalist myths of World War II as historical facts.

Dostoevsky

Show Time wrote: »

I like the fact he is not afraid to speak his mind.

Unsurprisingly, it didn't take long either.

hooradiation

Show Time wrote: »

The world has long since gone PC mad which is more the pity.

It's understandable, personal computers are very useful devices.

I'm assuming that's what you mean, because any other interpretation I could come up with would be mindbogglingly cretinous.

KyussBishop

Ah well, shít; always liked the guy and admired his enthusiasm in astronomy (much in the league of Attenborough's enthusiasm for nature), but that kind of taints it now. Hope it's just old-age senility; sad story all the same.

Wibbs

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's very easy for people to think that, had they grown up in Nazi Germany they wouldn't have ended up a Nazi themselves, however unwillingly.

Indeed. I'd put bloody good money down that the majority reading this, growing up in that time would be happily craning their arms in salute to the Austrian corporal. People of all cultures, outside of their own personal shít tend to be sheep. Well sheep is too strong a word, more like socially compliant, following whatever leader asserts themselves enough to earn majority respect and a title, especially if they think he(or she) is one of them, fighting for them and the compliant whole. People tend to forget when looking at the Nazi rallies, that the German people were among the most educated and civilised in Europe, never mind the world. Their engineering* and scientific achievements were unreal, achievements that many like the Americans and the British now erroneously often claim for themselves. You could say similar of their design and arts too. Straw chewing dribbling peasants they most certainly were not. Actually IMHO such as it is, that's what makes the world really go WTF happened.

Delancey wrote: »

When asked why he never married he tells the story that he was engaged to a Nurse who was killed in a German air raid and that marrying anyone else would be marrying '' second best '' - touching if true though the cynical bastard in me wonders if its not a convenient cover for a more , ahem , shall we say.....' controversial ' reason ?

Maybe, though I have two rellies, one male, one female who lost a fiance through illness when young, their hearts "broke" and neither ever married. Yes they had brief dalliances, but it was never the same for them. I must dig up a link for a study I read(if it's online) which tested a bunch of people for this. Rather they tested if they still retained that "in love" feeling for longer than most. Apparently most of us only keep that intense in love feeling going for 3 to 4 years of a relationship, to be replaced by the more consistent "mature love" feelings of a shared life together. It seems a minority don't lose that. Their brain scans and chemistry look like people in the throes of being in love many decades later, if slightly lessened. So while it might be a cover up for "I like shagging pythons in the reptile house of the zoo", it may well be the truth.




*My dad was an engineer, learning his trade or profession if one is pretentious before and during the war and he could read German. It was pretty much a requirement as the Germans had damn near cornered the market in the field.

H2UMrsRobinson

Dostoevsky wrote: »

What, was he Russian? Really?

Blitz and Battle of Britain combined death toll: 40,000 - 60,000 persons
Operation Barbarossa (Nazi invasion of Russia) death toll: c. 20 million persons

Somebody's been accepting far too many British nationalist myths of World War II as historical facts.

What are you on about, you might as well just say that the Irish famine was just propaganda and was blown out of all proportion, when you compare it to all the Chinese people who died in the famine in the late 50's.

I think 40,000 people dying and 1 million homes destroyed in 9 months, is plenty for anyone to cope with, don't belittle it, that's completely disrespectful and makes you just as bad as Mr Moore.

Dostoevsky

H2UMrsRobinson wrote: »

What are you on about, you might as well just say that the Irish famine was just propaganda and was blown out of all proportion, when you compare it to all the Chinese people who died in the famine in the late 50's.

I think 40,000 people dying and 1 million homes destroyed in 9 months, is plenty for anyone to cope with, don't belittle it, that's completely disrespectful and makes you just as bad as Mr Moore.

It doesn't constitute "He saw his country bombed into oblivion" which is what the poster claimed. If it does how do you describe the death of 20 million plus Russians as a result of the Nazi invasion? The British death toll was very little compared to that, yet for sheer nationalistic reasons British nationalists rarely acknowledge it. Nazi Germany certainly didn't bomb Britain into "oblivion".

Jimoslimos

I wonder if he holds his own people culpable as well, since it was Britain that declared war on Germany after all.

It's sad to see what bitterness can do to a person.

bwatson

Dostoevsky wrote: »

It doesn't constitute "He saw his country bombed into oblivion" which is what the poster claimed. If it does how do you describe the death of 20 million plus Russians as a result of the Nazi invasion? The British death toll was very little compared to that, yet for sheer nationalistic reasons British nationalists rarely acknowledge it. Nazi Germany certainly didn't bomb Britain into "oblivion".

So, so ignorant.

Dostoevsky

bwatson wrote: »

So, so ignorant.

Please do enlighten us.

Delancey

bwatson wrote: »

So, so ignorant.

How can you say that ? More people died in the siege of Leningrad than the combined British and US losses for the entire War.

Living in Ireland we naturally are far more more exposed to British TV and media in general and thus we think of the Normandy ( D-Day ) landings as the decisive point in the war - pure nonsense , a thought -provoking statistic : 90% of German causalties were suffered on the Eastern front - Russia defeated Germany and paid a huge price in so doing.

Mickey Dazzler

tenandtracer wrote: »

His pants are a bit snug under the oxters:)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/01/article-2137652-0531ECF7000005DC-907_634x409.jpg

What the **** is the story with his bags??

Nodin

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

What the **** is the story with his bags??

Ye get to that age, ye can do wtf ye want with the fucken things.

steddyeddy

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

What the **** is the story with his bags??

By bags do you mean testicles?

Palytoxin

Sure auld lads do and say what they like, they just don't give a fack, some trousers as well, how you would have a slash in those I do not know:D

Nodin

bwatson wrote: »

So, so ignorant.

If the place was bombed to oblivion, how did they win the "battle of Britain"? Prepare and launch the invasion of France from there...? It doesn't negate anyones sacrifice or suffering to try to see things on their true scale and speak of them in language commensurate to their size.

Nodin

Domo230 wrote: »

What you posted was highly disrespectful and makes light of the suffering they went through.

How?

H2UMrsRobinson

Palytoxin wrote: »

Sure auld lads do and say what they like, they just don't give a fack

Yep my nan still calls black people "nig-nogs" and gay people "woolly woofters" we all just cringe a little inside and raise our eyes to the heavens..she doesn't mean any harm she just comes from a different era. We'll miss her when she's gone.

Born to Die

Germany started 2 world wars, you can't speak ill of the present 80 million :eek:, bullsh1t, they just haven't got around to starting number 3.

They are waiting to see how their drive towards a federal Europe goes first.











:pac:

Nodin

Born to Die wrote: »

Germany started 2 world wars, you can't speak ill of the present 80 million :eek:, bullsh1t, they just haven't got around to starting number 3.

They are waiting to see how their drive towards a federal Europe goes first.

..quite well if they're in a beamer, I'd say.

efb

Hows the Irish hatred for the brits holding up???

Show Time

Dudess wrote: »

You appear to have gotten the wrong end of the stick - he says he hates all Germans, any of them, not just the nazis. Obviously it'd be completely different if he just said he hated the nazis - many of whom weren't German btw.

Sixty years ago when the Nazi were winning the second world war you would have had a hard time trying to find a German who was not a Nazi.

Sir Patrick is unwilling to forgive a country who wished to rule the world and that is his call to make.
You might not like him for it but that is his views as he lived through those times which none of us did.

It is very very easy to say forgive and forget if you are not affected by events that happened sixty years ago.

awec

He's lethal on the oul xylophone.

Have caught myself shaking my hips to his tunes many a time.

storker

My name is URL wrote: »

Some of his other views on politics etc are fairly eh.. well, fcuked up too. He once appeared on Room 101 and one of the things he 'banished' was female news readers

He's obviously never seen Melissa Theuriau...

Stork

Born to Die

efb wrote: »

Hows the Irish hatred for the brits holding up???

Alive and Kicking, but a more collective hatred of everyone else hides it nicely.

suicide_circus

How the **** are his trousers so high???

Nodin

Show Time wrote: »

Sixty years ago when the Nazi were winning the second world war you would have had a hard time trying to find a German who was not a Nazi.
.

....actually, no, not that hard a time. You'd still have to shoot them though, but they wouldn't be Nazis.

Show Time wrote: »

Sir Patrick is unwilling to forgive a country who wished to rule the world and that is his call to make.
.

This may come as a shock, but the whole Nazi thing wasn't run along concensus lines....Der Fuhrerprinzip and all that. "Una Duce, Una Voce" to coin a phrase from one of their fellow travellers.

Show Time wrote: »

You might not like him for it but that is his views as he lived through those times which none of us did.

It is very very easy to say forgive and forget if you are not affected by events that happened sixty years ago.

True, true.

fryup

efb wrote: »

Hows the Irish hatred for the brits holding up???

yep, we're right ones to be criticising aren't we

Dudess

Wibbs wrote: »

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's very easy for people to think that, had they grown up in Nazi Germany they wouldn't have ended up a Nazi themselves, however unwillingly.

Indeed. I'd put bloody good money down that the majority reading this, growing up in that time would be happily craning their arms in salute to the Austrian corporal.

It's a fascinating area to study - plenty of good people got bound up in it. Even plenty of good people were nazis. It would be easier to assume they were all crazed maniacs, but lots of them were just normal schmoes like any of us. And when people say "Oh well I'd have stood up to them" balls! If it were as simple as that they'd have been easily toppled.

bwatson

Nodin wrote: »

If the place was bombed to oblivion, how did they win the "battle of Britain"? Prepare and launch the invasion of France from there...? It doesn't negate anyones sacrifice or suffering to try to see things on their true scale and speak of them in language commensurate to their size.

Why are you using inverted commas when referring to the Battle of Britain? Attempting to depreciate the level of sacrifice and resilience of Britain in that particular episode of the war too?

pragmatic1

Tbh no one knows what that man seen in his lifetime. Opinions like that don't just materalise out of thin air.

Nodin

bwatson wrote: »

Why are you using inverted commas when referring to the Battle of Britain? Attempting to depreciate the level of sacrifice and resilience of Britain in that particular episode of the war too?

Yeah, I never come straight out with what I think, I just do the sneaky stuff like that.

What was the other episode of the war I was supposed to be slagging them off over, btw?

~(I need a new henchman to keep track of this shite, I really do...shootin the last fecker was funny at the time though......)

Dudess

fryup wrote: »

efb wrote: »

Hows the Irish hatred for the brits holding up???

yep, we're right ones to be criticising aren't we

Speak for yourself. I don't hate the Brits (and idiots who do, are as bad as Moore) therefore I will criticise him all I like.

Nodin

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Tbh no one knows what that man seen in his lifetime. Opinions like that don't just materalise out of thin air.

...they may drop out of the sky though.

Show Time

Born to Die wrote: »

Germany started 2 world wars, you can't speak ill of the present 80 million :eek:, bullsh1t, they just haven't got around to starting number 3.

They are waiting to see how their drive towards a federal Europe goes first.












:pac:

History 101 time:

Germany did not start the WWI but got dragged into by the system of alliances that were in place to stop such a war. The end of WWI and the TOV which was way to harsh on the German people set off a chain of events which lead to the rise of the Nazi party and than WWII

bwatson

Nodin wrote: »

Yeah, I never come straight out with what I think, I just do the sneaky stuff like that.

What was the other episode of the war I was supposed to be slagging them off over, btw?

~(I need a new henchman to keep track of this shite, I really do...shootin the last fecker was funny at the time though......)

Ok, so why did you make use of inverted commas?