stream joining my lands - who owns it

jocotty

Hi,

I have a farm in 2 lots, and the only thing joining them (other than a very busy main road) is a stream of about 100metres... ie : there is 100metres distance between a field in one lot and a field in the other lot - the land between the 100metres owned by a neighbour, but there is a stream within the 100metres. (stream about 2 metres wide and 2 metres deep)

my question is - who owns this stream? am i entitled to hunt a cow or 2 along this stream, so as to get between lots without having to use the public road? would i be entitled to pipe this stream, cover the pipe with soil / gravel,and hunt my cows on top of the piped stream??

it would make my life a whole lot easier. i asked my neighbours - but they wont let me cross there lands - due to valid reasons.

any one know anything about this?

jo

joe17

as far as i know you own half the steam because there is a small steam going through most of our land and some of our neighbors land and we own half and they own half and that all i know hope it helps

uberwolf

joe17 wrote: »

as far as i know you own half the steam because there is a small steam going through most of our land and some of our neighbors land and we own half and they own half and that all i know hope it helps

My understanding is that as a boundary it's halfway.

This is different though, and I would have thought that he has no rights to the lands (and the stream that runs over the land, albeit that land is a little lower than the rest of the land.)

pakalasa

Normally the centre of the stream is the division, with both land owners owning right up to the centre of the stream.
In your case, if I understand right, this may be the person that owns the land at the other far side of the road. Strange as it may sound.

brian_t

uberwolf wrote: »

I would have thought that he has no rights to the lands (and the stream that runs over the land, albeit that land is a little lower than the rest of the land.)

This would be my understanding too. The stream doesn't appear to act as a boundary between the OP and his neighbour and therefore he doesn't have any rights to it.

jocotty wrote: »

Hi,
am i entitled to hunt a cow or 2 along this stream

This wouldn't be Good Agricultural Practice.

LostCovey

brian_t wrote: »

This wouldn't be Good Agricultural Practice.

Now there's a phrase I will rob!

Bizzum

jocotty wrote: »

Hi,

I have a farm in 2 lots, and the only thing joining them (other than a very busy main road) is a stream of about 100metres... ie : there is 100metres distance between a field in one lot and a field in the other lot - the land between the 100metres owned by a neighbour, but there is a stream within the 100metres. (stream about 2 metres wide and 2 metres deep)

my question is - who owns this stream? am i entitled to hunt a cow or 2 along this stream, so as to get between lots without having to use the public road? would i be entitled to pipe this stream, cover the pipe with soil / gravel,and hunt my cows on top of the piped stream??

it would make my life a whole lot easier. i asked my neighbours - but they wont let me cross there lands - due to valid reasons.

any one know anything about this?

jo

Given the dimentions you quoted this is a fairly major watercourse.

The stream is 6' deep? It can be an awful ordeal (or indeed impossible)to get permission to culvert a watercourse , as well as being expensive.
It's unlikely to be feasible.

bbam

jocotty wrote: »

Hi,

I have a farm in 2 lots, and the only thing joining them (other than a very busy main road) is a stream of about 100metres... ie : there is 100metres distance between a field in one lot and a field in the other lot - the land between the 100metres owned by a neighbour, but there is a stream within the 100metres. (stream about 2 metres wide and 2 metres deep)

my question is - who owns this stream? am i entitled to hunt a cow or 2 along this stream, so as to get between lots without having to use the public road? would i be entitled to pipe this stream, cover the pipe with soil / gravel,and hunt my cows on top of the piped stream??

it would make my life a whole lot easier. i asked my neighbours - but they wont let me cross there lands - due to valid reasons.

any one know anything about this?

jo

Would I be right in saying that for the 100 meters you don't own the land either side of the stream? That's what I took from your description.
If that's the case you have no rights whatsoever over the stream, which sounds like a river to me.
If there is road one side of the stream and your neighbour on the other then I'd still say you have no rights to it either.

It would be unusual at a time when improving water quality and fencing out cattle is the norm that your neighbour would agree for you to drive cattle up the river. I know I wouldn't be on for it.

mikeoh

came across something like this once with regards to fishing rights ie. a farmer claiming exclusive fishing rights to a strech of stream going through his land as he owned both banks ...turned out the fishery board owned the stream not the farmer ............he would have had to owned both banks going back to landlord times to own the waterway too as in big old estates nowadays but one side of the river had been bought in over 80yrs ago

jocotty

bbam wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that for the 100 meters you don't own the land either side of the stream? .

yes, Thats correct. not looking good for me so!! :rolleyes:

1chippy

would you not approach one of the farmers to see if they would sell you a strip for a pass.

Tipp Man

mikeoh wrote: »

came across something like this once with regards to fishing rights ie. a farmer claiming exclusive fishing rights to a strech of stream going through his land as he owned both banks ...turned out the fishery board owned the stream not the farmer ............he would have had to owned both banks going back to landlord times to own the waterway too as in big old estates nowadays but one side of the river had been bought in over 80yrs ago

Are you sure you don't mean the fisheries owned the rights to fish as opposed to the stream itself,???

brian_t

Tipp Man wrote: »

Are you sure you don't mean the fisheries owned the rights to fish as opposed to the stream itself,???

I think you're probably right.

In Ireland, there are no laws dictating that the ownership of fishing rights may not be severed from that of the bed and soil or the adjoining land, meaning that one person can own the bed and soil and another the fishing rights..

http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/State-Fisheries/history-of-fishing-rights-in-ireland.html

whelan1

we have a river going the whole way through our farm, opw clean it every few years and fisheries board- or whatever they are called now- walk it every so often, i never ever thought of the river as mine for some reason. I would never try to bring cattle up or down the river, there are afew drinking holes in it for cattle but in my eyes for some reason i dont own it....

milkprofit

Post the map of bounderys

49801

know of a situation where some1 wanted to create a gap accross a narrow strip of land to access his field from the road to make life simplier. For some reason the owner of the strip wounld only agree to lease it. Not sure why that was preferable to a buy/sell transaction but that is what worked for them

lakill Farm

i know a farmer who owned landed on both sides of a river, (6/8ft wide and maybe 2 ft of water. We looked for permission to build a permanent bridge as the field the far side of the river involved a 3 mile detour throught a village. In the end he was granted permission to build 2 permanent walls (1 either side) and build a temporary bridge using real heavy rsj and heavy timbers. He managed to use it to move cattle across etc and i dont think it has ever been moved . The opw clean around it every few years. saves him some time as he goes the road with full loads of slurry but comes back over the bridge empty. Reverse with silage trailers. I crossed it while drawing silage (empty) and it was real solid under the tractor and trailer.

Cheap option and its not changing the river course, it just means alterations to the banks and pouring 2 mass concrete walls.

jocotty

1chippy wrote: »

would you not approach one of the farmers to see if they would sell you a strip for a pass.

yes..........they wont sell!!!