Airport Police - Dublin Airport

kub

An Udaras wrote: »

This thread is soon becoming a laughing stock KUB you clearly have no operation knowledge of how Aviation Security & Policing works and I for one won't be educating you on it. Operational information & SOPs are confidential for a reason. The Airport Police have their own rank structure of Sergeants & Inspectors so its irregardless of what a "Certain Members" says.. theres processes in place for a reason. By the way your above story is totally inaccurate.

Well An Udaras, I really could not give two hoots about the Airport Security/ Fire / Traffic Wardens or whatever else their job description is. I would by all means be glad of them if someday some aircraft I am in goes on Fire or whatever else.
If I am however in an Airport and for whatever reason need police assistance, I will call the professionals, that is The Gardai, not some wana be, security guard. Granted I may be on Airport property, but the airport is on Irish soil and is owned by, afterall the tax payer.
I as a civilian have indeed no knowledge, neither do I need any knowledge of Aviation Security & Policing, it is something that will not really keep me up at night, so I wouldn't be requiring you to inform me on these big impressive secrets that you posses.
I would also expect the Airport security organisation to have a rank structure, sorry though, that still does not do much for me, even if they are ' Sergeants and Inspectors' :rolleyes:.

BY THE WAY my story........which it isn't, is fact.

Zambia

kub wrote: »

Does anyone know what actually happened that day in Cork Airport when that guy stole a traffic corp 4x4 and drove it onto the apron.

Why ask if its fact.

An Udaras

kub wrote: »

Well An Udaras, I really could not give two hoots about the Airport Security/ Fire / Traffic Wardens or whatever else their job description is. I would by all means be glad of them if someday some aircraft I am in goes on Fire or whatever else.
If I am however in an Airport and for whatever reason need police assistance, I will call the professionals, that is The Gardai, not some wana be, security guard. Granted I may be on Airport property, but the airport is on Irish soil and is owned by, afterall the tax payer.
I as a civilian have indeed no knowledge, neither do I need any knowledge of Aviation Security & Policing, it is something that will not really keep me up at night, so I wouldn't be requiring you to inform me on these big impressive secrets that you posses.
I would also expect the Airport security organisation to have a rank structure, sorry though, that still does not do much for me, even if they are ' Sergeants and Inspectors' :rolleyes:.

BY THE WAY my story........which it isn't, is fact.

Ok Kub,you've answered my previous posts question and your entitled to your own personal opinion from whatever evidence/knowledge you've based it off.

kub

Zambia wrote: »

Why ask if its fact.

Easy, I just want to know the full details, although I feel i might be better off asking elsewhere though, I feel a lot of folk here are in the Airport Security fan club.

kub

An Udaras wrote: »

Ok Kub,you've answered my previous posts question and your entitled to your own personal opinion from whatever evidence/knowledge you've based it off.

Thank you, I feel though that I also need to mention that I have never had a run in with one of these guys, actually I do not recall ever even speaking with one for that matter.
But I get the pleasure of meeting quite a lot of security guards in my job, in general they are nice guys but I do come across quite a lot of Walter Mitty type characters, it must be from the boredom of their occupation.
I suppose what really gets me is when a security officer thinks he has more power than a Garda and sometimes I think the word Police on a civilians uniform could go to a chaps head.

fasttalkerchat

kub wrote: »

But I get the pleasure of meeting quite a lot of security guards in my job, in general they are nice guys but I do come across quite a lot of Walter Mitty type characters, it must be from the boredom of their occupation.
I suppose what really gets me is when a security officer thinks he has more power than a Garda and sometimes I think the word Police on a civilians uniform could go to a chaps head.

You're right there but you get people on a power trip everywhere. IMO the word police should be a protected term. Ireland is a special case since the police are called guards but it could be deceiving.

Another point. I read somewhere that they aren't actually registered security guards (or don't have to be) because that is not needed at an airport. Is this right?

An Udaras

All Security Guards in Ireland are regulated under the auspices of the Private Security Authority Act 2004.

its quite simple really:

Security Guards are required under that act to carry PSA IDs and complete mandatory course etc.. before working in the security industry.

Members of the Airport Police who are all Authorised Officer under legislation are exempt from the above act which regulates all private security staff, Other groups that are also exempt include members of the Gardai, Customs & the Defence Forces. So referring to a member of the Airport Police Service as a security guard is clearly inaccurate if you go by what the state recognizes as one.

The DAA/Aer Rianta are the organization that decided to maintain & fund its own Airport Police force, if they provide a POLICE service within a AIRPORT does this not reflect their current function & role accurately?

First Aid Ireland

kub wrote: »

If I am however in an Airport and for whatever reason need police assistance, I will call the professionals, that is The Gardai, not some wana be, security guard. Granted I may be on Airport property, but the airport is on Irish soil and is owned by, afterall the tax payer.

Dude, chill out a bit.

If some terrible is happening in the airport any sane person is gonna let the airport police turn up and do their job. i can't think of a single example of a situation where a sane person would refuse airport police help and wait for the gardai instead.

I don't imagine anyone in civvie land makes and differentiation between the two. I'm fascinated by your reaction. I really am. I always assumed they were actually police,and I think the vast majority of people would.

source

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

Dude, chill out a bit.

If some terrible is happening in the airport any sane person is gonna let the airport police turn up and do their job. i can't think of a single example of a situation where a sane person would refuse airport police help and wait for the gardai instead.

I don't imagine anyone in civvie land makes and differentiation between the two. I'm fascinated by your reaction. I really am. I always assumed they were actually police,and I think the vast majority of people would.

They are actual police, the issue that most people (not me by the way) have is that they are a private police force, of the department of transport. This coupled with a lack of knowledge as to what they actually do leads to people calling them security guards, or plastic coppers.

APOs do an important job in our airports and I for one have the utmost respect for them. They police a tough, busy and demanding environment, and they do it well.

It is unfortunate that they don't prosecute their own cases, but I believe this is down to manpower issues. The airport police service has approximately 300 personnel, a fraction of what AGS has (14,000). So unlike AGS it cannot afford to have people sitting around all day in court when they have very low staffing levels in the first place, so unless it becomes a transport police service similar to the UK model (which I believe it should) with a decent staffing level, or unless it becomes absorbed into AGS, it will continue to hand cases over to AGS for prosecution.

Delancey

source wrote: »

It is unfortunate that they don't prosecute their own cases, but I believe this is down to manpower issues. The airport police service has approximately 300 personnel, a fraction of what AGS has (14,000). So unlike AGS it cannot afford to have people sitting around all day in court when they have very low staffing levels in the first place, so unless it becomes a transport police service similar to the UK model (which I believe it should) with a decent staffing level, or unless it becomes absorbed into AGS, it will continue to hand cases over to AGS for prosecution.

Given the financial position of the DAA it may prove a challenge to even maintain the current numbers much less add to them.

An Udaras

Recruitment into the Wardens is being mooted for later this year. There is a requirement to keep both forces strength at a certain level so its likely a recruit class will be taken on this year.

CaseyRyback

My own view on the Aiport Police is that it should either be disbanded or rebranded.

The term 'Police' to my mind implies a body of sworn men/women empowered to enforce the law of the land, swear warrants in front of a Judge, arrest without warrant anywhere within the jurisdiction on or off duty, in uniform or in plain clothes. The Airport Police Service does not, as an organisation, meet these criteria. It is instead a security department of a State body, the DAA, empowered to enforce byelaws and detain persons pending processing by An Garda Siochana.

I would support the above view by adding that the Airport Police cannot engage in vehicle pursuits, carry firearms or operate outside of their very limited jurisdiction without support of the actual Police, AGS. Within their own jurisdiction they do not enjoy full Police powers.

Either rebrand them airport security, or disband them and let AGS take over the job, deploying armed officers overtly as is the case everywhere else in the world. In aviation policing there is no such thing as 'no threat'. The airport environment is an attractive one for all sorts of criminality, from petty thieves dipping purses, stealing bags, skimming ATM machines up to international terrorists plotting to use planes as missiles or conducting suicide attacks to raise the profile of their organisation. An airport is always a potential target for criminals.

Zambia

In the UK there is a Civil Nuclear Constabulary Called the Civil Nuclear Police Authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Nuclear_Constabulary

In large paid for by the Companies that run plants. They would not partake in the above police activity's and are routinely if not always armed.

The term Police is pretty much only used at the airport in Ireland and what better term to be used for a place where people arrive from all over the world.

It saddens me the effort some people are going to here to run down the Airport Police.

To me its pretty simple they police the Airport, I dont see any off them coming on here saying they want or require any more involvement with the outside world.

CaseyRyback

Zambia wrote: »

In the UK there is a Civil Nuclear Constabulary....In large paid for by the Companies that run plants. They would not partake in the above police activity's and are routinely if not always armed.

The CNC are actual Police though. They enjoy full police powers within their jurisdiction and full police powers anywhere in the UK in connection with matters concerning nuclear security or materials.

Though the CNC's ordinary jurisdiction is limited to a radius of 5k of nuclear power stations, as above, they can operate outside of this with the same powers as a Home Office Constable in relation to their primary role and even under unrelated circumstances, such as the hunt for gunman Derrick Bird where CNC provided armed support to local Police.

CNC Constables training mirrors that of Home Office Police and officers from the Home Office can transfer into CNC and vice versa and CNC uniform and vehicles are indistinguishable from local Police save for the Force name.




The DAA Aiport Police bear no semblance to the CNC in training, capability, authority or equipment.

As far as using the term Police at an airport for tourist purposes, well what better way to confuse people than labelling a uniformed guard force as Police?

Pfft, anyone who has a problem with AP being called "police" *really* needs to find something else to complain about.

It works. That's it. Get over it.

Zambia

CaseyRyback wrote: »

The CNC are actual Police though. They enjoy full police powers within their jurisdiction and full police powers anywhere in the UK in connection with matters concerning nuclear security or materials.

I know however they dont turn up at domestics do they? They have a group of responsibility's and they stick to that. That is what I am getting at.

CaseyRyback wrote: »

As far as using the term Police at an airport for tourist purposes, well what better way to confuse people than labelling a uniformed guard force as Police?

Tell me how this would confuse a member of the Public at the airport?

What would a member of the public ask an airport Policeman and be saddened to find they are not a State Policeman?

An Udaras

CaseyRyback wrote: »

The DAA Aiport Police bear no semblance to the CNC in training, capability, authority or equipment.

As far as using the term Police at an airport for tourist purposes, well what better way to confuse people than labelling a uniformed guard force as Police?

So Casey what knowledge do you have of the modern day Airport Police Service's training syllabus & could you also share your appartent in depth knowledge of their function,roles & structure which certainly not limited to "Uniformed Guarding", it seems you know a lot about what there capability is?

Please feel free to share this with us..

Airport Police carry their title as it quite simply defines their role to a Airport user. I don't know of any Security Guard that has statute powers like them?

Of course if they had no police powers I would see no issue with the name being changed to reflect this. The APS has specific legislation at their disposal which is both relevant and necessary to the job they do.

CaseyRyback

An Udaras wrote: »

...could you also share your appartent in depth knowledge of their function....

Please feel free to share this with us..

Sure.

Without wanting to identify myself, a relative of mine worked for the APFS following their leaving a 999 emergency service. They did not enjoy it and found it very limited.

Security in an airport environment is a vital function, of that there is no doubt, but why label security staff as Police when they are clearly not Police Officers?

Elessar

Delancey wrote: »

Given the financial position of the DAA it may prove a challenge to even maintain the current numbers much less add to them.

The DAAs financial position is excellent and they still made over €33 million profit in 2010 - in one of the worst recessions to ever hit the state. Make no mistake the DAA has plenty of money.

The Dublin APS recently balloted for industrial action based on a dispute over the allocation of holidays and the shortage of manpower. Due to their contracts I believe that before any "strike" can happen they must go through the industrial relations process with the LRC/Labour court.

There is no sign of recruitment. I work in the airport and the place is a melting pot for rumors. I cannot validate any of this but, the DAA wanted to recruit new airport police on much lower pay (€12.50/hr or thereabouts) and poorer contracts. The unions refused to co-operate in order to protect their current members, among other things. There was also a plan to have a separate airport police unit covering Terminal 2 only. This was also rejected.

Again, this is just the word in the airport. It will be interesting to see what happens, as APS is a coveted job (almost everyone I speak to in the airport wants it) but any new recruits, whenever they are taken on, will undoubtedly be on much lower pay and worse contracts than current members. There will be significant gaps in renumeration and working conditions, like there is currently between T1 and T2 general staff. Almost every new post in the airport is on a much lower wage package since the cost recovery program kicked in.

If they manage to keep current pay and contracts for new members all well and good, but what does that say for everyone else in the airport who were taken on doing the same job but on lower pay?

I can't see the DAA relenting on this one.

Eru

Zambia wrote: »

I know however they dont turn up at domestics do they? They have a group of responsibility's and they stick to that. That is what I am getting at.

ANd my point and Caseys is that they can actually arrest, detain, question and prosecute the criminals that commit crimes within their remit. AP do not. For a prime example, look at the Cork incident. Who actually caught the guy, cuffed him, led him away, charged him, brought him to court and prosecuted the case? AP or AGS? Heres a hint: https://emergencyservicesforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=448&fullsize=1

Zambia wrote: »

What would a member of the public ask an airport Policeman

Well off hand what do most people ask policemen? To take their complaint as a victim of crime, investigate it, catch the criminal, maybe get their stuff back or compensation and provide victim support and a crime reference number for the embassy to replace travel documents or to claim on insurance

Zambia wrote: »

and be saddened to find they are not a State Policeman?

When they find out on returning home or to their embassy that the policeman they spoke to cant investigate the crime, cant prosecute the criminal, cant provide the embassy with a crime reference number as they have no access to the national crime database aka PULSE and the report made to the 'policeman' does not satisfy their insurance companies requirements.

Other than that though I'm sure it will be peachy.

CaseyRyback

Zambia wrote: »

What would a member of the public ask an airport Policeman and be saddened to find they are not a State Policeman?

Well they might be a little miffed that any serious offence committed on the Airport Police's patch won't be investigated by the Airport Police.

Serious criminal offences such as child abduction/kidnap, rape, serious assault, murder etc taking place on DAA property will not even be looked at by Airport Police. They will simply be uniformed civilians charged with preserving the scene until actual Police investigators arrive.

Zambia

CaseyRyback wrote: »

Serious criminal offences such as child abduction/kidnap, rape, serious assault, murder etc taking place on DAA property will not even be looked at by Airport Police. They will simply be uniformed civilians charged owith preserving the scene until actual Police investigators arrive.

In a lot of serious offences the initial Police on scene preserves the scene for further investigation by other Police.

Listen no one lives at the airport.
The investigation wont take place there.
The airport police even if they had the power should not be bringing offenders into the airport for interview. The airport is for flying in and out of.


Godamn it I got f&&king sucked into this didnt I...:(

An Udaras

DAA are statutorily respnsible for the safety & security of its Airports.

The Minister of Transport,Tourism & Sport and his department has overall ownership for both the DAA and the implementation & regulation of Aviation Security in Ireland.

Obviously they are more then happy with current situation in relation to its policing requirements otherwise it would have changed it before now.

Airport Police deal with the problem at source then it's transferred over to the Gardai to process it. The threat/incident has been dealt with and removed from the Airport which is all the DAA is concerned about.

The DAA wants to provide its customers and the Airports staff with A safe environment to come to and if a person attempts to endanger the safety or security of others they can respond and deal with quickly and efficiently. Hence why the Airport has its own Police Service.

Yes Airport Police are integral part of security within an airport just as the Gardai are integral to security of other infrastructure such as when they go out protecting the Dail or Shell to Sea oil depot etc...

Eru

CaseyRyback wrote: »

They will simply be uniformed civilians charged with preserving the scene until actual Police investigators arrive.

Would you believe they don't actually have the authority to preserve a scene based purely on the fact that its a crime scene? only Gardai can, probable because Gardai are police. It would need the additional requirement of being unsafe for the victim or person trying to enter it.

A, as for the post above me, blah blah blah blah blah. More waffle that does not address the issue being raised because he knows myself and Casey have made completely accurate statements.

B, It does amaze me that if a person is raped, assaulted seriously or murdered in the airport the AP will only be concerned with removing the victim and suspect from the airport then dust their hands with a smile and a contented 'job done' round of applause from the daa and the poster thinks thts a grand way for a 'police' force to handle it.

An Udaras

I think you will find that the a member of the Airport Police has ample power to refuse/forbid/remove a person/s from entry to any part of an Airport, this power is given under the Airport Byelaws. So of course they can seal off any crime scene,scene of a crime, incident site call it what you will from any member of the public until its handed over to a member of the AGS.

I point you towards the murder at back of the airport when an eastern european national was murdered in the lay by and the APS & Airport Fire & Rescue where first on the scene and where commended highly in the subsequent court case by the Judge & Senior Garda management for taking control and their actions & professionalism at the scene & for the securing of vital evidence.

Read the news paper or court files if you so wish.

hjs007

What can the 'Joeys' actually do without having to call the Gardai in to deal with and take over ! Even the Airlines don't enlist there services, they just by pass them and call the Gardai because they know calling the Joeys is a waste of time and that they more than likely wont be able to deal with the issue without having to 'hand' it over to the Gardai !!!

An Udaras

hjs007 wrote: »

What can the 'Joeys' actually do without having to call the Gardai in to deal with and take over ! Even the Airlines don't enlist there services, they just by pass them and call the Gardai because they know calling the Joeys is a waste of time and that they more than likely wont be able to deal with the issue without having to 'hand' it over to the Gardai !!!

Sigh... Evidence please???

What type of Air line matters are you talking about?

hjs007

Can the Joeys actually enforce any Air Navigation Act Offences without having to 'hand' it over to the AGS !

An Udaras

Yes of course they can.

Now back to your previous point what evidence do you have to state that Airlines don't contact the APS?

hjs007

Well i cant disclose individual cases ! But it just shows that even Airlines know not to waste there time with the 'middle man' !!!

So what Offences can you enforce then without calling the gardai to prosecute the case !!!

An Udaras

hjs007 wrote: »

Well i cant disclose individual cases ! But it just shows that even Airlines know not to waste there time with the 'middle man' !!!

So what Offences can you enforce then without calling the gardai to prosecute the case !!!

Section 8 of Air Navigation & Transport Act 1998

Proceedings.

8.—(1) Summary proceedings for an offence under this Act may be brought and prosecuted by the company.

(2) Summary proceedings for an offence under section 34 may be brought and prosecuted by the Minister.

(3) Notwithstanding section 10(4) of the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act, 1851, summary proceedings for an offence under this Act may be instituted within 12 months from the date on which the offence was committed.

(4) Where a person is convicted of an offence under this Act, the court shall, unless it is satisfied that there are special and substantial reasons for not so doing, order the person to pay to the company the costs and expenses, measured by the court, incurred by the company in relation to the investigation or prosecution of the offence.

(5) References in section 382 of the Act of 1963 to a “company” shall, for the purposes of this Act, be construed as including references to a body corporate (whether or not a company within the meaning of that section) charged on indictment with an offence under this Act.

As amended by State Airport Act 2004

2. In section 8—

(a) by substituting for subsection (1) the following:

“(1) Proceedings for an offence may be brought and prosecuted summarily by—

(a) where the offence relates to Dublin Airport, Dublin Airport Authority,

(b) where the offence relates to Cork Airport, before the Cork appointed day, Dublin Airport Authority, and from that day, Cork Airport Authority, or

(c) where the offence relates to Shannon Airport, before the Shannon appointed day, Dublin Airport Authority, and from that day Shannon Airport Authority.”,

and

(b) in subsection (4), by substituting “the company concerned” for “the company”.

So the DAA who the APS report into, can bring prosecution for various offenses with out the need to go to the Gardai if they wished too.

Now going back to your previous point. it is scandalous at best if you do not intend to provide evidence to support it?

Are you saying that Airline staff or an Airline itself is advising its staff not to contact the APS in relation to a Security Breach or to report a crime that is occurring to them?

Am i to take this as what you are implying?

Eru

hjs007 wrote: »

What can the 'Joeys' actually do without having to call the Gardai in to deal with and take over ! Even the Airlines don't enlist there services, they just by pass them and call the Gardai because they know calling the Joeys is a waste of time and that they more than likely wont be able to deal with the issue without having to 'hand' it over to the Gardai !!!

Too be fair your being pretty vague about what issues they would call for, if you mean air rage then yes your correct, Gardai attend and arrest for public order.

An Udaras wrote: »

Yes of course they can.

Evidence of prosecutions undertaken? I keep asking but don't get an answer.

An Udaras wrote: »

I think you will find that the a member of the Airport Police has ample power to refuse/forbid/remove a person/s from entry to any part of an Airport, this power is given under the Airport Byelaws. So of course they can seal off any crime scene,scene of a crime, incident site call it what you will from any member of the public until its handed over to a member of the AGS.

You have absolutely no idea of law nor does it appear you can read links that are supplied for you. The act clearly states only GARDAI can declare a crime scene. its in the law that I posted to so PLEASE with suger on top. post a link that gives AP permission to refuse me entry to the airport for absolutely no reason whatsover as your suggesting. PLEASE

An Udaras wrote: »

I point you towards the murder at back of the airport when an eastern european national was murdered in the lay by and the APS & Airport Fire & Rescue where first on the scene and where commended highly in the subsequent court case by the Judge & Senior Garda management for taking control and their actions & professionalism at the scene & for the securing of vital evidence.

Read the news paper or court files if you so wish.

A, being first has nothing to do with preserving a crime scene, Ambulances are frequently first at a scene, they dont declare and preserve them. Again, lack of knowledge on how the law operates.

B, That link provides no information that the AP were praised or declared a crime scene.

as for court cases, again I will ask YOU to provide YOUR proof of AP conducting prosecutions in court. Must be the 5th or 6th time now. Why no court cases?????

(and for the love of god will someone explain to this guy that a ticket is not a criminal conviction)


oh wow I just saw your last post, your really trying to hide now arent you? Considering the fact that I already pointed out that that section only allows civil prosecution against companies, airlines and staff for civil aviation offences and NOT criminal cases of any type by the DAA as a corporate enforcer. Go on, post what offences that relates to

hjs007

So the APS is to prosecute a summary offence ? How do you propose confirming someones true identity ?

Oh you cant can you ! Hi im Joe Bloggs from 1 Main Street ! ha .....

hjs007

Eru wrote: »

Too be fair your being pretty vague about what issues they would call for, if you mean air rage then yes your correct, Gardai attend and arrest for public order.


Yes pretty vague but cant nor do i want to disclose individual cases, but in general most Offences of a criminal nature they just call the Gardai and i dnt think the Joeys like being kept outside the loop....

An Udaras

Eru wrote: »

Too be fair your being pretty vague about what issues they would call for, if you mean air rage then yes your correct, Gardai attend and arrest for public order.



Evidence of prosecutions undertaken? I keep asking but don't get an answer.

I don't have any way of doing this I've said that, all I've done is show you that there is a mechanism to do so.



You have absolutely no idea of law nor does it appear you can read links that are supplied for you. The act clearly states only GARDAI can declare a crime scene. its in the law that I posted to so PLEASE with suger on top. post a link that gives AP permission to refuse me entry to the airport for absolutely no reason whatsover as your suggesting. PLEASE

Here is the [URL="/http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/si/0425.html"]link[/URL], I refer you to Byelaws 4.1 prohibited acts section 1

"(1) entering an airport, or any part of it, when forbidden to do so by an authorised officer"

You will note I didn't say declare a crime scene I said call it what you want for example a Incident Site if the AP detect foul play what to stop them closing the area and informing the AGS? As in the murder case article I linked you too



A, being first has nothing to do with preserving a crime scene, Ambulances are frequently first at a scene, they dont declare and preserve them. Again, lack of knowledge on how the law operates.

Please see above

B, That link provides no information that the AP were praised or declared a crime scene.

as for court cases, again I will ask YOU to provide YOUR proof of AP conducting prosecutions in court. Must be the 5th or 6th time now. Why no court cases?????

Again see above RE: Mechanism exists

(and for the love of god will someone explain to this guy that a ticket is not a criminal conviction)

Never said issuing a Fixed Penalty Notice is a convictions?? Its actually the opposite its a non endorsable, if someone pays it. Where as failure to pay leads to a criminal prosecution. Please refer yourself to the provisions of Section 27 State Airport Act 2004

oh wow I just saw your last post, your really trying to hide now arent you? Considering the fact that I already pointed out that that section only allows civil prosecution against companies, airlines and staff for civil aviation offences and NOT criminal cases of any type by the DAA as a corporate enforcer. Go on, post what offences that relates to

Byelaws for example can be prosecuted in District Court as criminal prosecution.. Where are you getting the civil part from?

Even a local authority can bring criminal prosecutions./QUOTE]

HJS can you even provide company names or a vague ideas? Other wise its meaningless..

hjs007

HJS can you even provide company names or a vague ideas? Other wise its meaningless..[/QUOTE]

Well we will have to leave it at being Meaningless so ! But dont get too upset because your cut out of the Loop !!!

An Udaras

hjs007 wrote: »

So the APS is to prosecute a summary offence ? How do you propose confirming someones true identity ?

Oh you cant can you ! Hi im Joe Bloggs from 1 Main Street ! ha .....

Section 33 allows for this, You can require a person to provide evidence of their identity to confirm their name & address and can also search a person to look for evidence of it also.

Of course if a person refuses or fails to provide it or provides a false one they can be arrested and passed over to the Gardai who will ultimately receive it at their station.

Now is it worth having your freedom taken away and all the hassle of hours with the Airport Police and subsequently more time with the Gardai for simply failing to provide this information?

I don't think so..

The Gardai will then simply pass the details onto the APS.

An Udaras

hjs007 wrote: »

Well we will have to leave it at being Meaningless so ! But dont get too upset because your cut out of the Loop !!!

"The Loop" sure thing.. :rolleyes:

An Udaras

hjs007 wrote: »

So you require the Gardai ultimately !

People say they should merge the APS with AGS ! Well the the APS would have to go through the Garda recruitment process !

Yawn... Once again PLEASE any evidence to back up your Garda Reject reference?

Otherwise i think your just troll troll troll trolling....

The Gardai are our national police force & have ultimately the facilities & application to manage the national criminal database.

hjs007

An Udaras wrote: »

hjs007 wrote: »

Yawn... Once again PLEASE any evidence to back up your Garda Reject reference?

Otherwise i think your just troll troll troll trolling....

So you want me to start naming off your comrades publicly !!! Id never insult them for been a reject and having to take there 2nd or probably 10th choice in job choice !

An Udaras

hjs007 wrote: »

So you want me to start naming of your comrades publicly !!! Id never insult them for been a reject and having to take there 2nd or probably 10th choice in job choice !

You and your childish comments are no longer going to take up my time.

Good luck with them.

Eru

An Udaras wrote: »

The Gardai will then simply pass the details onto the APS.

The details of arrested persons is confidential until they land in court. We do NOT provide this information to 3rd parties so civil prosecutions.

I keep refering to civil matters because you keep assuming that going to court = criminal case. Theres civil prosecutions and thats where tickets go. I gave the example before, traffic tickets and byelaw tickets (all byelaw tickets) are civil and not criminal cases regardless of being paid or summoned. Aviation prosecutions under air navigation act is also civil law cases as is fare evading on buses and trains. You do NOT have a criminal record from any of these events.

If you don't believe me about that, well I don't really case to be honest.

As for proof, court cases are public knowledge and are listed on the court service website, if you will insist on saying it happens, provide some proof otherwise as you have told someone else, your assertions are meaningless.

hjs007 wrote: »

So you require the Gardai ultimately

For all criminal matters they do, no matter what spin is put on it, that's the reality.

hjs007 wrote: »

People say they should merge the APS with AGS ! Well the the APS would have to go through the Garda recruitment process

They could make the AP a fully fledged police force with full powers or at least the full power of prosecution and investigation for anything that happens in the airport as well

hjs007 wrote: »

Isnt that why the APS are working for the DAA because they went through the Garda recruitment process and were rejected ! Well most of them anyways ! Apart from the Dogs, id say they will take them !

I appreciate An Udarus getting up your nose but he isn't AP so there's no need to insult them, they haven't said anything or made any false claims about themselves here. Some may have failed but likewise theres many that have gone on to join AGS after the airport.

I think this is getting pointless now and in a last attempt to bail out I will leave it at that, if people believe me so be it, if not well I don't think I can make the case anymore.

hjs007

I appreciate An Udarus getting up your nose but he isn't AP so there's no need to insult them, they haven't said anything or made any false claims about themselves here. Some may have failed but likewise theres many that have gone on to join AGS after the airport.


How do you know An Udarus isnt a Joey (AP) ? I would say that they are.....

Well An Udarus are you a Joey ???

kub

hjs007 wrote: »

An Udaras wrote: »

So you require the Gardai ultimately !

People say they should merge the APS with AGS ! Well the the APS would have to go through the Garda recruitment process !

Isnt that why the APS are working for the DAA because they went through the Garda recruitment process and were rejected ! Well most of them anyways ! Apart from the Dogs, id say they will take them !

Lol, excellent reference to the dogs

kub

hjs007 wrote: »

I appreciate An Udarus getting up your nose but he isn't AP so there's no need to insult them, they haven't said anything or made any false claims about themselves here. Some may have failed but likewise theres many that have gone on to join AGS after the airport.


How do you know An Udarus isnt a Joey (AP) ? I would say that they are.....

Well An Udarus are you a Joey ???

I'd say he is one as well, or at least wishes he was, the way he has gone on about them......they have hero status.

CB19Kevo

Lads will you cop yourselves on.
APFS do not operate outside the airport so why is there so much aggression.
To be honest this just reminds me of the HSE vs VOL rubbish that went on for years.

My only issue with policing at the airport is the lack of Armed officers.

Tango Alpha 51

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Lads will you cop yourselves on.
APFS do not operate outside the airport so why is there so much aggression.
To be honest this just reminds me of the HSE vs VOL rubbish that went on for years

Totally agree with the above. Any of the dealings I've had with the APS in Cork or Shannon have been very professional. I've never had any dealings with Dublin. I have found them to be polite, pleaseant & professional. As CB19 has pointed out, this is like the NAS vs VOL or DFB vs ERAS ****e that has gone on for years.

The comment about members of the APS being Garda rejects is just childish

Eru

kub wrote: »

I'd say he is one as well, or at least wishes he was, the way he has gone on about them......they have hero status.

if memory serves he works in the airport but is not Joey, wants to be and idolises them without doubt but is a fanboy not a Joey.

fasttalkerchat

Out of interest, at the other airports that aren't under the DAA, do they just have a mixture of guards and private security or are they called Airport Police too?

hjs007

Eru wrote: »

if memory serves he works in the airport but is not Joey, wants to be and idolises them without doubt but is a fanboy not a Joey.

Well An Udaras by the sounds of it is all set to sit the Joey exams ! Id say he collects the trolleys......