Is this abuse of the Irish Passport?

golden lane

Cavehill Red wrote: »

One upside to the bombing campaign is that it made it possible to build a proper motorway and road system right through the city, and create lots of excellent new buildings.
It's about the only upside, mind you.

well for me, i couldn't find short strand.......i am getting old now....just had to see the city, maybe for the last time.....i have always liked belfast....even during it's terrible problems....

in 1989...i did a job in downpatrick...but stayed in belfast....and i used to pick up the local man in the falls road every morning and take him home at night....

he would reassure me it was ok....as i drove an english registered car.....

Cavehill Red

golden lane wrote: »

well for me, i couldn't find short strand.......i am getting old now....just had to see the city, maybe for the last time.....i have always liked belfast....even during it's terrible problems....

in 1989...i did a job in downpatrick...but stayed in belfast....and i used to pick up the local man in the falls road every morning and take him home at night....

he would reassure me it was ok....as i drove an english registered car.....

Sounds right. The hate was always largely internal. Even with the British Army, it was mainly only certain groups (stand up Para scum) who attracted the ire of the locals. And the few tourists who ever made it there during the bad days were treated like royalty.
For sure, Southerners might have got the eye of suspicion from Loyalists. But even that generally was all it was.
As for Short Strand, bottom of the Ormeau. Same place it ever was!
And pop up again soon. It's a better place by the day.

ProudDUB

Cavehill Red wrote: »

In fact, we welcome it because anything that reintroduces them to their Irish nationality and heritage is, to my mind, to be encouraged.

On paper, that sounds great. I too am all for people from both sides of the cultural and political divide embracing common elements of Irishness. It can't but lead to mutual empathy and understanding between the 2 communities.

But if someone from a Unionist/Protestant background shows up at the Irish Embassy/Consulate, ponies up a birth cert to get an Irish passport, gets said Irish passport, uses said Irish passport to bypass paying university fees in Scotland, & then fecks off to Scotland to begin their university education, that shows damm all commitment to "getting reintroduced to their Irish nationality and heritage" imo. If they were using their new found Irishness to get a free ride down South, ok then. But to use it in main land UK, that is just taking the piss.

All that displays to me is a commitment to getting a free ride from the UK educational system, by exploiting red tape loop holes. It doesn't have anything to do with any deeply felt feelings about being Irish. I don't really expect to see these people at the Fleadh Ceol, or going on Irish language courses in the Connemara Gaeltacht any time soon. Do you?

golden lane

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Sounds right. The hate was always largely internal. Even with the British Army, it was mainly only certain groups (stand up Para scum) who attracted the ire of the locals. And the few tourists who ever made it there during the bad days were treated like royalty.
For sure, Southerners might have got the eye of suspicion from Loyalists. But even that generally was all it was.
As for Short Strand, bottom of the Ormeau. Same place it ever was!
And pop up again soon. It's a better place by the day.

i will find it next time.....no markets there confused me.....

yes, i have sat drinking in an east belfast hotel....and been approached by loyalist, attracted by my dub accent....i have had the hate tirade straight into my face......but that was a rare occasion.....

and i admire all you people, i am impressed how life went on.......be proud of yourself.......the friendliest city in the world....

Cavehill Red

ProudDUB wrote: »

On paper, that sounds great. I too am all for people from both sides of the cultural and political divide embracing common elements of Irishness. It can't but lead to mutual empathy and understanding between the 2 communities, right? Yeah, ok, I get that.

Agreed.

ProudDUB wrote: »

But if someone from a Unionist/Protestant background shows up at the Irish Embassy/Consulate, ponies up a birth cert to get an Irish passport, gets said Irish passport & using said Irish passport to bypass paying university fees in Scotland, & then fecks off to Scotland to begin their university education, that shows damm all commitment to "getting reintroduced to their Irish nationality and heritage" imo.

No, it would be a tad mercenary. But Ireland loses out nothing from the exchange. And over the course of a decade, as they look at the harp on their passport every time they travel, it might provoke some thought about the extent to which they are Irish. These are young people, some of the brightest, going to university. I suspect it would make them think a little, which is no bad thing.

ProudDUB wrote: »

All that displays to me is a commitment to getting a free ride from the UK educational system, by exploiting red tape loop holes. It doesn't have anything to do with any deeply felt feelings about being Irish. I don't really expect to see them at the Fleadh Ceol, or going on Irish language courses in the Connemara Gaeltacht any time soon !

Maybe not. I've one NI Protestant friend who was resident in Dublin for two decades before he could bring himself to utter the fact that he was in any way, shape or form Irish. The cultural lie (that they aren't Irish, or that Irish culture is not theirs also) has been ingrained deeply. Anything that might dislodge it is no bad thing in my opinion.

Cavehill Red

golden lane wrote: »

i will find it next time.....no markets there confused me.....

Aye, just Georges left and it's mostly fruit and coffee shops. I'm never near it.

golden lane wrote: »

yes, i have sat drinking in an east belfast hotel....and been approached by loyalist, attracted by my dub accent....i have had the hate tirade straight into my face......but that was a rare occasion.....

Don't think it would happen now. Too much of the East Belfast is owned by Dubliners!

golden lane wrote: »

and i admire all you people, i am impressed how life went on.......be proud of yourself.......the friendliest city in the world....

I'm proud we finally found a way to get beyond the hate. And while it is a friendly city, with its own unique dark humour, I spend most of my time these days in what really is the friendliest city in the world, which is Dublin.

golden lane

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Aye, just Georges left and it's mostly fruit and coffee shops. I'm never near it.



Don't think it would happen now. Too much of the East Belfast is owned by Dubliners!



I'm proud we finally found a way to get beyond the hate. And while it is a friendly city, with its own unique dark humour, I spend most of my time these days in what really is the friendliest city in the world, which is Dublin.

i left dublin 52 years ago.....and have spent more time in ni...than i have back in dublin........but i went there last year for a few days...great time.....

i am origionally from just beside dublin castle...golden lane, as my username shows.....i have got no family there now...

IrishAm

Charming people, these "new Irish" citizens.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/missfitz/781359716/

The best idea Sinn Fein ever came up with was their repatriation policy in the 80s.

Repatriate, repatriate, repatriate.

These people do not deserve to be called Irish.

Pherekydes

woodoo wrote: »

They could be at a 12th bonfire cheering on the burning of the Irish flag one day and then off to University in Glasgow with an Irish passport the next to get free fees.

I don't know why people get upset by burning the flag. This summer, our sports stars will be dragging the flag around in the muck, should they win anything, and patriotic fans will be defacing the flag with the names of soccer clubs, native and foreign. Sure, even the guy taking down the flag at the local shopping centre drags in on the ground in the rain, before rolling it up and dumping it in a trolley.

It's never supposed to touch the ground, or have anything written on it. If these simple rules aren't observed why should we care if others want to burn it?

IrishAm

Pherekydes wrote: »

I don't know why people get upset by burning the flag. This summer, our sports stars will be dragging the flag around in the muck, should they win anything, and patriotic fans will be defacing the flag with the names of soccer clubs, native and foreign. Sure, even the guy taking down the flag at the local shopping centre drags in on the ground in the rain, before rolling it up and dumping it in a trolley.

It's never supposed to touch the ground, or have anything written on it. If these simple rules aren't observed why should we care if others want to burn it?

The Irish tri-colour is just a piece of cloth.

But when people burn it, especially when they have an ulterior motive behind it, it grates me.

It grates me deeply.

I wish these people a happy and prosperous life in their homeland. Scotland, isnt it?

Repatriate them all.

MajorMax

woodoo wrote: »

They could be at a 12th bonfire cheering on the burning of the Irish flag one day and then off to University in Glasgow with an Irish passport the next to get free fees.

They should have to have the passport for years before hand.

Don't be silly there's no University open on the 13th of July. Tut

It wasn't me!

IrishAm wrote: »

Charming people, these "new Irish" citizens.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/missfitz/781359716/

The best idea Sinn Fein ever came up with was their repatriation policy in the 80s.

Repatriate, repatriate, repatriate.

These people do not deserve to be called Irish.

Speaking as someone whose family is from NI and who has plenty of stories from the times as a result, this bigoted shíte is exactly what's prolonged the divide as long as it has been.

Augmerson

Have we really gotten to page 5 of this without KeithAFC taking part?

Cee-Jay-Cee

They should all be made attend irish classes and pass exams in order to get an Irish passport...that'll learn them!

forfuxsake

IrishAm wrote: »

Charming people, these "new Irish" citizens.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/missfitz/781359716/

The best idea Sinn Fein ever came up with was their repatriation policy in the 80s.

Repatriate, repatriate, repatriate.

These people do not deserve to be called Irish.

As an Irish Nationalist I find such comments anti-Irish, anti-republican abhorrent, repugnant and I think any repatriation policy deserves to be printed on bog-roll.

Catholic, Protestant, dissenter - abolish the hatred, not the hater.

Fratton Fred

bbk wrote: »

Indeed, I was under the impression it was an EU requirement for EU member states not to charge EU students the full fees on grounds of discrimination. It is in the BBC article posted anyway.

What has happened is that the countries that make up the UK are not bound by this when accepting other UK students into their educational institutions because they are a UK student before they are an EU student when they are being educated in their home country.

This is the same as me being considered an Irish student to the Irish educational grant system but EU to anywhere else in the EU.

As a vote grabber, Alex Salmond offered free education for Scottish Students. however, he can't then charge non Scottish students fees because under EU law, you cant discriminate against people from another state.

However, the English, Northern Irish and Welsh aren't from another state, so it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate against them.

the sooner Scotland is independent the better, then England will be able to afford to give it's own citizens free university places rather than pay for Mr Salmond's gimmicks.

swimming in a sea

plenty of it the other way to, met a die hard northern gaa man in Singapore, who carried a UK passport as it was easier to get a visa with.

And then all the double dipping that goes on for oz visas using Irish passport one year and UK passport the next, there was an episode of border control in oz where they caught one northerner with is gaa shirt on and trying to get through on a UK passport but they found him on the system 12 months earlier coming through on a Irish passport, so they packed him off back to the UK or Ireland or where ever it was he thought he was from.

for 99% of the population nationalism is only an after thought :rolleyes:

NiallFH

Can't say I agree with it myself, I'm from the north and have (and only ever will have) an Irish passport, all my family are the same.

But then if its saving you thousands a year I dont think too many could justify spending that money when it is so easily avoided.

golden lane

IrishAm wrote: »

Charming people, these "new Irish" citizens.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/missfitz/781359716/

The best idea Sinn Fein ever came up with was their repatriation policy in the 80s.

Repatriate, repatriate, repatriate.

These people do not deserve to be called Irish.

what is the criteria........for a deserving to be called irish..person......??????

Cavehill Red

IrishAm wrote: »

Charming people, these "new Irish" citizens.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/missfitz/781359716/
The best idea Sinn Fein ever came up with was their repatriation policy in the 80s.
Repatriate, repatriate, repatriate.
These people do not deserve to be called Irish.

I see sleep has not mellowed you. That's a pity. Where would you repatriate them to, pray tell? Their ancestors have been in Ireland for centuries. They have interbred conclusively with those who were already here, to the extent that an examination of surnames shows as many Gaelic names among Protestants as it shows English and Scottish names among Catholics.
They are Irish, whether you believe they deserve to be, and indeed whether they actually even acknowledge it or not.
Furthermore, I repeat what I wrote last night: it is highly unlikely that 18 year olds from middle class Belfast grammar schools seeking to pursue a university education are responsible for placing genocidal banners on 12th July bonfires.

Cavehill Red

CJC999 wrote: »

They should all be made attend irish classes and pass exams in order to get an Irish passport...that'll learn them!

Wanna try that with the 'new Irish' Nigerians and Chinese too? What about the local indigenous populace of the Republic? Might be fun to see how many people would retain their nationality if that were the requirement.

COYW

CJC999 wrote: »

They should all be made attend irish classes and pass exams in order to get an Irish passport...that'll learn them!

Most of the people "born and bred" in the Republic would fail. Is it true the an Irish passport holder from the Republic can get a British passport if one of their parents was born in the Republic pre 1956?

forfuxsake

Having two passports is great. I know many people in the republic, mostly protestants mind, with a British passport.

If you can get two, get two. My children are entitled to Irish, British and Polish and I will tell them to get all three. For the sake of a few quid it can be really useful to have a couple of spares should you lose one or accidently murder a hooker.

forfuxsake

COYW wrote: »

Most of the people "born and bred" in the Republic would fail. Is it true the an Irish passport holder from the Republic can get a British passport if one of their parents was born in the Republic pre 1956?

A British Subject is a person who was born in Ireland prior to 01.01.1949 and are required to complete an additional form when submitting a passport application. Please refer to our Passport further guidance section.

so if your father meets this condition, then you can get one. I thinks.

Richard

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Most of the NI students who go to Scottish universities are from the Protestant community. I am delighted to see that they are realising what benefits can be obtained from embracing their Irish nationality wholeheartedly, and hope to see more of this in future.

If they were eligible for any other EU passport the same would apply.

There are also many English people entitled to Irish citizenship, so they can do the same.

Richard

IrishAm wrote: »

I wish these people a happy and prosperous life in their homeland. Scotland, isnt it?

It isn't.

Repatriate them all.

You can repatriate someone from his own country.

Unfortunately there are extremists like those you describe from Northern Ireland and their home is... Northern Ireland.

Though in terms of the passport issue, the Irish government could surely remove their Irish nationality if they were found to be bringing it into disrepute. Though I don't think many of those people would be going to university in Scotland or elsewhere.

Ellis Dee

There's nothing wrong with using any passport to gain whatever benefits are going, as long as one is entitled to the passport.:)

Eamon De Valera would have been "executed" (i.e. murdered) by the British along with the other heroes of 1916 were it not for his American passport. But, since he wasn't deemed to be a British citizen, he couldn't be found guilty of the high treason rap that they tried to pin on him.:D:D

Rented Mule

woodoo wrote: »

I'm a little uncomfortable with it. If they wanted an Irish passport because they are happy to identify as Irish than fine. But not if its just a ticket to free fees.

Tiocfaidh ar passport

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

those fees don't have to be paid up front......and are only paid back when the student reaches a certain level of earnings......

the drop out rate, when students paid no fees,,,was nearly fifty percent......disgracefull really...also nine thousand is the higher end..

And how much did you pay in fees? I'm guessing nothing. The idea that you only pay your fees back when you can afford to is silly. It's actually quite a sizeable chunk of your income that gets taken out automatically as soon as you're earning anything over the poverty wage. I had £160 taken out of my last pay packet and I couldn't really afford to lose it. The last thing graduates need when they're graduating into a sh*tty job market with low paid, dead end jobs is to start paying back ridiculously high loans.

The fees situation in the UK is an absolute disgrace. No other EU country charges anything like 9K a year for a basic undergrad degree in a PUBLIC university. Considering you practically need a degree to work in McDonald's now, it's just unethical to charge such high fees that people really have no choice about paying. I applaud anyone who finds a way around the system.