Provincial Schools thread 2012-2013 *MOD WARNING POST 1*

Oldboy 92

ormond lad wrote: »

You have a point about their being a multitude of reasons for someone moving school but in the vast vast majority of cases it is rugby that is the driving point behind the kids moving esp those who move just for 6th year or to repeat their leaving cert. Look at danny barnes, donnacha ryan as just a few examples and they are just some of the lads who made it to pro who moved for rugby reasons. there has been many more as well as those 2
I could be wrong and naming a player is unfair is something i shouldn't have done but its clear to quite a few people IMO that the schools do "recruit" talented players from the youths system after watching them play at provincial or the sub provincial regional level.

Agree with you, if any player has talent then why not improve the environment in which you train and play. Did some snooping re that one player, apparently he is heading down the medicine route so I can see the appeal of the boarding school for him. Are there any other Youths players or pupils who have moved schools that you know of??? Are repeat students eligible for SCT?

ormond lad

rugby_fan wrote: »

I would agree with you Ormond Lad that the gap between the youths and schools is closing due to more resources being put in place for the youths etc however it's is still clear too see that not many make the break through when the two come together, with only two from the youths starting on the Leinster 19s blue team and one more starting with a year in a rugby school behind him

Yes theres only 5 on the 19s blue team(the guy in clongowes doesnt have a year of schools rugby behind him as he played irish youths last march/april so hasnt been in a rugby school that long) and on the 19s white side there is 8/9 youths players and over the next few years more and more youths players will make these combined squads and go on to make the breakthrough and play 20s and further.

ormond lad

Oldboy 92 wrote: »

Agree with you, if any player has talent then why not improve the environment in which you train and play. Did some snooping re that one player, apparently he is heading down the medicine route so I can see the appeal of the boarding school for him. Are there any other Youths players or pupils who have moved schools that you know of??? Are repeat students eligible for SCT?

yes repeat students are eligible for SCT though not for long in Munster if new rules are put in place as you'll have to be in school a full school year before playing SCT
There has been plenty of youths players who moved schools, i could name plenty in munster who moved for 6th year/repeated 6th year after schools off the top of my head but not as many off the top of my head who moved to schools in leinster
Yes i can see the appeal of moving to a boarding school system but saying its great that talented youths players should def move to a rugby school, in the most part a fee paying boarding school, to progress their rugby career sends out the wrong image.
Schools rugby has many benefits but the fascination with it is ridiculous and many players can, have done and will make it to pro level, top club level without going anywhere near a rugby playing school and playing in the Leinster Schools Cup
Anyway this is going off topic and this discussion could go on and on and nearly deserves its own thread
Will 'nure's and all the other u18/19 interpros be playing in the friendlies this week?

rugby_fan

Player from clongowes wasn't on the Irish youths as he wasn't eligible cause of being in school!

Wouldn't say the 19s inter pro players will be in action anyway cause still have one more match with Leinster to play!

clubrug

ormond lad wrote: »

Yes theres only 5 on the 19s blue team(the guy in clongowes doesnt have a year of schools rugby behind him as he played irish youths last march/april so hasnt been in a rugby school that long) and on the 19s white side there is 8/9 youths players and over the next few years more and more youths players will make these combined squads and go on to make the breakthrough and play 20s and further.

That Clongowes lad did not play Irish youths 2012 Ormond lad, moved to Clongowes 2011, don't believe he was recruited, father is connected there as far as I know.
In Munstert school "Recruiting" is certainly alive and well, would be great to see more resources going to clubs, they are really struggling with 19s age group.

Last weekend for 19s next weekend, hopefully munster 18s club go well today

themont85

ormond lad wrote: »

more numbers playing, better coaching, more and more resources being spent on youths rugby. provincial u18 clubs sides are getting as good as u18provincial schools sides in many cases.
The club sides are also improving to a great extent
Shannon-St Marys, last seasons u19 all ireland youths champions played st munchin, munster schools cup finalists and lost to them by a score or two. In the past the schools side would have won by 40-50 points
It may be the way the system is built at the moment but the total fascination on schools rugby is crazy especially considering only half the number of 13-19 year olds playing rugby in ireland play in rugby playing schools.

This statement has little basis of reality behind it. For example, the Irish u18 clubs team were beaten by Italy last year. The same Italy afaik were second last at the 18s European Championships, where the Irish schools side came second.

I have no doubt that certain Youth teams every year have good teams but in the main, they cannot compete with teams training 4/5 times a week and who have all the ancillary benefits of being effectively full time. Add to that the schools bias in rules and the clubs can't compete.

My cousins club team who were great at 12-13-14 were stripped apart by the time they all entered school. The standard dropped significantly around their age group. Some clubs, where schools aren't as embedded benefited from this. The standard of club age grade rugby in mid to late teens is pretty bloody awful in Leinster anyway.

ormond lad

themont85 wrote: »

This statement has little basis of reality behind it. For example, the Irish u18 clubs team were beaten by Italy last year. The same Italy afaik were second last at the 18s European Championships, where the Irish schools side came second.

I have no doubt that certain Youth teams every year have good teams but in the main, they cannot compete with teams training 4/5 times a week and who have all the ancillary benefits of being effectively full time. Add to that the schools bias in rules and the clubs can't compete.

My cousins club team who were great at 12-13-14 were stripped apart by the time they all entered school. The standard dropped significantly around their age group. Some clubs, where schools aren't as embedded benefited from this. The standard of club age grade rugby in mid to late teens is pretty bloody awful in Leinster anyway.

Irish youths did lose by a score or so to Italy and schools did win but Irish youths didnt get same level of attention as they had less games etc to prepare.
Youths clubs sides are nowhere near the schools in many ways and never really will as the schools game totally dominates but in Munster the top clubs are as good as the schools. As regional sides get more and more resources put into them the regional youths sides will compete with and beat several of the schools when/if they play each other
You dont see a lot of youths rugby if you think the standard of u16-19 rugby in Leinster is "pretty bloody awful"

ormond lad

clubrug wrote: »

That Clongowes lad did not play Irish youths 2012 Ormond lad, moved to Clongowes 2011, don't believe he was recruited, father is connected there as far as I know.
In Munstert school "Recruiting" is certainly alive and well, would be great to see more resources going to clubs, they are really struggling with 19s age group.

Last weekend for 19s next weekend, hopefully munster 18s club go well today

Fergal Cleary who has started on the leinster u18 schools this month was an irish youth in 2012. see http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/25665.php
Some clubs are struggling with 19s but they are fielding. Slight changes have been made to ensure teams can field at 19s

rugby_fan

Talking about youths players that makes the cut when it comes to u19 where both clubs and schools combine, so we werent talking about Fergal Cleary as he is still u18, Stephen Keelan being the player playing with the u19s

ormond lad

rugby_fan wrote: »

Talking about youths players that makes the cut when it comes to u19 where both clubs and schools combine, so we werent talking about Fergal Cleary as he is still u18, Stephen Keelan being the player playing with the u19s

sorry got slightly mixed up. Keelan played leinster youths in sept/oct 2011 and played senior cup last feb/march
Schools Leagues in Leinster start wednesday week

ormond lad

Intouch rugby magazine does a good weekly update on how the ulster schools do in their games every week. See here.
There isnt anywhere that does something similar for any of the other provinces?

themont85

ormond lad wrote: »

Irish youths did lose by a score or so to Italy and schools did win but Irish youths didnt get same level of attention as they had less games etc to prepare.
Youths clubs sides are nowhere near the schools in many ways and never really will as the schools game totally dominates but in Munster the top clubs are as good as the schools. As regional sides get more and more resources put into them the regional youths sides will compete with and beat several of the schools when/if they play each other
You dont see a lot of youths rugby if you think the standard of u16-19 rugby in Leinster is "pretty bloody awful"

I've played it, I've coached it. It isn't good. Struggle to get numbers and it's a struggle to find time to train. There's a few clubs, mainly outside of Dublin who do give it a decent fist, but mainly it's poor. I know of a few guys from North Kildare for instance, they had an excellent Youths team. They battered all just 3 or 4 seasons ago. They all pretty much went to the same, non Rugby, GAA school and it took them an age to convince the school to let them enter the school's cup. They ended up in the Vinny Murray which was the school's first ever year, a great achievement and it could have been better with more years and more chances at coaching.

In Munster, yeah the gap is certainly narrower. Still though, Munster haven't exactly been excelling at age grade in recent years so hardly a good indication.

mogwai81

How would Greg O'Shea of Munster compare with Harrison Brewer and Billy Dardis. In regards ability
and potential. Brewer and Dardis are always spoken of very highly. I know O'Shea is regarded to have
serious speed.

ormond lad

themont85 wrote: »

I've played it, I've coached it. It isn't good. Struggle to get numbers and it's a struggle to find time to train. There's a few clubs, mainly outside of Dublin who do give it a decent fist, but mainly it's poor. I know of a few guys from North Kildare for instance, they had an excellent Youths team. They battered all just 3 or 4 seasons ago. They all pretty much went to the same, non Rugby, GAA school and it took them an age to convince the school to let them enter the school's cup. They ended up in the Vinny Murray which was the school's first ever year, a great achievement and it could have been better with more years and more chances at coaching.

In Munster, yeah the gap is certainly narrower. Still though, Munster haven't exactly been excelling at age grade in recent years so hardly a good indication.

Where have you coached if you dont mind me asking?
Most Youths sides are not near schools sides but the top sides are as good as or very damn near.
Munster havent been the greatest in recent years but we havent ever really had had huge numbers on irish u/age squads.

mogwai81 wrote: »

How would Greg O'Shea of Munster compare with Harrison Brewer and Billy Dardis. In regards ability and potential. Brewer and Dardis are always spoken of very highly. I know O'Shea is regarded to have serious speed.

G O Shea is a top class winger and isnt just a speedster. Has great potential. Himself and Munsters other u18 schools winger Steve McMahon(orig from dungarvan and in youths set up) are the 2 id pick out from the munster u18 schools side to go further. Though id pick eoin o carroll from tralee who is on the youths side as better

ormond lad

On Wednesday Clongowes host Cistercian Roscrea and St Marys host Newbridge

How did the 'nure game against the argentinian school go today? Were any u18 interpros playing?

fox_1973

ormond lad wrote: »

On Wednesday Clongowes host Cistercian Roscrea and St Marys host Newbridge

How did the 'nure game against the argentinian school go today? Where any u18 interpros playing?

Terenure lost 10 8, no interpros played

ormond lad

Leinster A schools beat Munster A schools in the first game today in Musgrave Park
Leinster won 22-13 in an excellant game
Leinster were better upfront but Munster were stronger out in the backs

ormond lad

19s interpro playoffs are on in ashbourne rfc saturday
12.30pm Exiles v Ulster
2.30pm Munster v Leinster White
4.30pm Leinster Blue v Connacht

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

On Wednesday Clongowes host Cistercian Roscrea and St Marys host Newbridge

Roscrea beat Clongowes 20-17
Newbridge beat Marys 29-12

Quint2010

ormond lad wrote: »

Where have you coached if you dont mind me asking?
Most Youths sides are not near schools sides but the top sides are as good as or very damn near.
Munster havent been the greatest in recent years but we havent ever really had had huge numbers on irish u/age squads.


G O Shea is a top class winger and isnt just a speedster. Has great potential. Himself and Munsters other u18 schools winger Steve McMahon(orig from dungarvan and in youths set up) are the 2 id pick out from the munster u18 schools side to go further. Though id pick eoin o carroll from tralee who is on the youths side as better

O'Shea is a super player but he got burned badly by the Leinster right winger in the interpro for Leinster's second try

profitius

Quint2010 wrote: »

O'Shea is a super player but he got burned badly by the Leinster right winger in the interpro for Leinster's second try

By "burned" do you mean outpaced? I ask because O'Shea is extremely fast. 100m time of about 10.6/7 seconds as a 16 year old. He has great acceleration.

Quint2010

profitius wrote: »

By "burned" do you mean outpaced? I ask because O'Shea is extremely fast. 100m time of about 10.6/7 seconds as a 16 year old. He has great acceleration.

Well he was beaten on the outside. In fairness to him the winger running at him was running at pace but he stood O'Shea up and got around him and had enough momentum to make it to the line.

fox_1973

Leinster lost 20 15 to connacht in the 19s pro final. A nail biting game! Leinster whites beat munster for 3rd place

Hagz

fox_1973 wrote: »

Leinster lost 20 15 to connacht in the 19s pro final. A nail biting game! Leinster whites beat munster for 3rd place

Can't find the Leinster XV anywhere, very frustrating, do you know what the XV was?

Hagz

On a side not, I know that Peter Robb was playing for the u19 side, as there's a picture of him scoring a try. This kid is absolutely frickin massive! He's a centre who plays for Old Belvedere and played for Blackrock College. He is genuinely a tank. I would not be at all surprised to see him involved with the u20s next year.

fox_1973

Hagz wrote: »

Can't find the Leinster XV anywhere, very frustrating, do you know what the XV was?

The link is gone from the leinster site but they were -

1. Peter Dooley Landsdowne FC
2. Dylan Donnellan CWC
3. Shane Delahunt UCD RFC
4. Ross Moloney St. Michaels
5. Robert Somerville Terenure College
6. Jack O Neill Castleknock
7. Stephan Keelan CWC
8. Sean Coughlan Blackrock
9. Dermot Lavelle Gonzaga
10. Conor Mckeon Gonzaga
11. Daniel Jordon Monkstown
12. Mark O Keefe St. Michaels
13. Adam Byrne UCD RFC
14. Jack Keating Pres Bray
15. Cian Kelleher St. Michaels

fox_1973

Hagz wrote: »

On a side not, I know that Peter Robb was playing for the u19 side, as there's a picture of him scoring a try. This kid is absolutely frickin massive! He's a centre who plays for Old Belvedere and played for Blackrock College. He is genuinely a tank. I would not be at all surprised to see him involved with the u20s next year.

was a lovely try, came on as a sub 10 minutes into the second half

Hagz

fox_1973 wrote: »

The link is gone from the leinster site but they were -

1. Peter Dooley Landsdowne FC
2. Dylan Donnellan CWC
3. Shane Delahunt UCD RFC
4. Ross Moloney St. Michaels
5. Robert Somerville Terenure College
6. Jack O Neill Castleknock
7. Stephan Keelan CWC
8. Sean Coughlan Blackrock
9. Dermot Lavelle Gonzaga
10. Conor Mckeon Gonzaga
11. Daniel Jordon Monkstown
12. Mark O Keefe St. Michaels
13. Adam Byrne UCD RFC
14. Jack Keating Pres Bray
15. Cian Kelleher St. Michaels

Woah, that's basically the first string side, fair play Connacht. They must have been rallied by the performance of the seniors.

fox_1973

Hagz wrote: »

fox_1973 wrote: »

The link is gone from the leinster site but they were -

1. Peter Dooley Landsdowne FC
2. Dylan Donnellan CWC
3. Shane Delahunt UCD RFC
4. Ross Moloney St. Michaels
5. Robert Somerville Terenure College
6. Jack O Neill Castleknock
7. Stephan Keelan CWC
8. Sean Coughlan Blackrock
9. Dermot Lavelle Gonzaga
10. Conor Mckeon Gonzaga
11. Daniel Jordon Monkstown
12. Mark O Keefe St. Michaels
13. Adam Byrne UCD RFC
14. Jack Keating Pres Bray
15. Cian Kelleher St. Michaels

Woah, that's basically the first string side, fair play Connacht. They must have been rallied by the performance of the seniors.

Connacht had a good game, leinster were better on the breaks but gave away far too many stupid mistakes, the winning try for them from a fummbled ball from leinster, well done connacht, last nights show defo rubbed off

ormond lad

Hagz wrote: »

Woah, that's basically the first string side, fair play Connacht. They must have been rallied by the performance of the seniors.

Yeah thats the leinster side that competed in group A.
Connacht have been increasing at all age groups the past few years and are doing great work u/age
Michaels beat Nure 20-10 on saturday. Any score from saturdays game between Pres Cork and Marys?
Nure host Belvedere next saturday and Marys travel to Blackrock.

ormond lad

Any results from the terenure belvedere, PBC Cork michaels, crescent comp rockwell, blackrock marys games today?

fox_1973

ormond lad wrote: »

Any results from the terenure belvedere, PBC Cork michaels, crescent comp rockwell, blackrock marys games today?

Terenure beat Belvo 34 5

ormond lad

intouchrugby.com review of games played over the last week or so
Of Leinster/Munster sides who played games up in Ulster, Blackrock lost 33-8 to Royal School Armagh and Crescent Comp Limerick beat Wallace High School and Royal School Armagh
Blackrock hammered St Marys
Michaels beat PBC Cork

ormond lad

Senior League round 2 is tomorrow. Always interesting to see who is looking strong out of the sides that compete in the league as they're often forgotten here to a degree
Castleknock College top table of section A after round 1 where they beat High School 81-5. Newbridge beat Pres Bray 37-0 and Wesley beat Gerards 17-8.
tomorrow High School play Pres Bray, Newbridge play Cistercian-Roscrea and
Wesley College play Castleknock.

In section B in last weeks games CBC Monkstown beat Kings Hospital 15-8 and 'zaga beat Andrews 13-9. Tomorrow
C.U.S host CBC Monkstown, Gonzaga host Kilkenny and Kings Hospital host St Andrews

ormond lad

RugbyHead15 wrote: »

Does anyone have any results from Division B, any teams with big results? I hear Newbridge and Roscrea are impressive.

Roscrea and Newbridge are in Section A.
results from 1st 2 rounds of Section A are below
03/10/2012
Castleknock 81 High School 5
Pres Bray 0 Newbridge College 37
Wesley College 17 St Gerards 8
10/10/2012
High School 16 Pres Bray 20
Newbridge College 21 Cistercian-Roscrea 17
Wesley College 17 Castleknock 19
And Section B results are here
03/10/2012
C.B.C 15 Kings Hospital 8
St Andrews 9 Gonzaga 13
10/10/2012
C.U.S 7 C.B.C 63
Gonzaga 39 Kilkenny College 17
Kings Hospital 10 St Andrews 6

ormond lad

Gerards played Blackrock House 1sts on wednesday.
what exactly is the house team? Is it boarders or what exactly?
Tomorrows senior games
Terenure v Blackrock
Methody Belfast v St Marys
St. Munchin's v Crescent Comp
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
and Tomorrows junior games
P.B.C. v Blackrock College
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
Terenure v St Marys

rugbyman2015

ormond lad wrote: »

Gerards played Blackrock House 1sts on wednesday.
what exactly is the house team? Is it boarders or what exactly?
Tomorrows senior games
Terenure v Blackrock
Methody Belfast v St Marys
St. Munchin's v Crescent Comp
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
and Tomorrows junior games
P.B.C. v Blackrock College
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
Terenure v St Marys

What time is Ternure/Rock senior match at? Definitely in Terenure I presume

rugbyman2015

ormond lad wrote: »

Gerards played Blackrock House 1sts on wednesday.
what exactly is the house team? Is it boarders or what exactly?
Tomorrows senior games
Terenure v Blackrock
Methody Belfast v St Marys
St. Munchin's v Crescent Comp
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
and Tomorrows junior games
P.B.C. v Blackrock College
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
Terenure v St Marys

What time is Terenure/Rock senior match at? Definitely in Terenure I presume

Quint2010

rugbyman2015 wrote: »

What time is Terenure/Rock senior match at? Definitely in Terenure I presume

See The Leinster Schools Rugby thread..

ormond lad

rugbyman2015 wrote: »

What time is Terenure/Rock senior match at? Definitely in Terenure I presume

12.30 kick off in Terenure

Dev5976

ormond lad wrote: »

Gerards played Blackrock House 1sts on wednesday.
what exactly is the house team? Is it boarders or what exactly?
Tomorrows senior games
Terenure v Blackrock
Methody Belfast v St Marys
St. Munchin's v Crescent Comp
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
and Tomorrows junior games
P.B.C. v Blackrock College
Rockwell v Ard Scoil Ris
Terenure v St Marys

The House team is their 4th and 5th Year team, not including those boys who are on the sct.

fox_1973

Dev5976 wrote: »

The House team is their 4th and 5th Year team, not including those boys who are on the sct.

In Terenure, they would be the senior seconds and thirds, each college give their own name to them

ormond lad

fox_1973 wrote: »

In Terenure, they would be the senior seconds and thirds, each college give their own name to them

thanks but after googling it and its as Dev5976 says
think its just blackrock have enough numbers to field different teams for example here - castle sides are 4th/5th years and the house sides are 6th years

fox_1973

ormond lad wrote: »

thanks but after googling it and its as Dev5976 says
think its just blackrock have enough numbers to field different teams for example here - castle sides are 4th/5th years and the house sides are 6th years

I stand corrected

Dev5976

ormond lad wrote: »

fox_1973 wrote: »

In Terenure, they would be the senior seconds and thirds, each college give their own name to them

thanks but after googling it and its as Dev5976 says
think its just blackrock have enough numbers to field different teams for example here - castle sides are 4th/5th years and the house sides are 6th years

Other way around, but right concept. Castle are the 6th year only team and House are the 4th & 5th year team.

ormond lad

Marys lost to Methody College Belfast yesterday 47-0

ormond lad

Just looking at irish age grade calender for the season.
Its only 2 weeks until the irish u18 squads meet up for their 1st training camps of the season(29th october to november 2nd)
The 2 squads will spend 2 days training in cork/limerick, and 3 days in clongowes and while in clongowes the irish youths will play the irish schools.
The irish 19s will also be in Limerick/Cork and Clongowes that week

It'll be interesting to see who and how many make each squad for these sessions

ormond lad

Games on saturday
Snr
Terenure v Rockwell
Belvedere v St Marys
CBC Cork v Crescent Comp
PBC Cork v St Munchins
Jnr
PBC Cork v St Marys

Terenure and Rockwell game should be good as nure are being tipped in Leinster and Rockwell will be very strong in Munster this year

fox_1973

ormond lad wrote: »

Games on saturday
Snr
Terenure v Rockwell
Belvedere v St Marys
CBC Cork v Crescent Comp
PBC Cork v St Munchins
Jnr
PBC Cork v St Marys

Terenure and Rockwell game should be good as nure are being tipped in Leinster and Rockwell will be very strong in Munster this year

Terenure v Rockwell is off, Terenure are now playing Casteknock away

ormond lad

fox_1973 wrote: »

Terenure v Rockwell is off, Terenure are now playing Casteknock away

Why nure rockwell game off?

Results of senior/junior development games from the last 2 weeks
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/newsroom/10461

The draws for the Leinster Schools Duff and McMullen Cup competitions took place in the Leinster Rugby office in UCD on Thursday afternoon...
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/newsroom/10504

Duff and McMullen Cups are the cups for the section A schools

Video highlights of the methody belfast v st marys game that was played last saturday
http://www.intouchrugby.com/magazine/2012/10/18/intouch-tv-presents-methodist-college-rugby-i-xv-scored-47-we-got-it-all-conversions-tries-vid-is-live-v-st-marys-0/