worried about a suck calf

lakill Farm

4 week old suck calf. Was fine at 8pm last night, drank usual milk and was eating crunch and hay. Went out at 8am to feed and this lad was panned out. No temp. a bad rattle when he breaths. I have him 8ml Resflor (1ml for every 15kg) at 815am and at 830 i gave him 1 litre of "lifeline" for weak/scoury calf as he didnt even try to feed. He does have scour. GOing to give him 1litre more of lifeline now.

Anything else i can try apart from the vet. I text the vet and he said not much more i can do. He is in a clean shed and looks brighter than this morning.

bbam

Ah crap.. Sorry to hear that...

He're's what we try to do for a bad scour...
Isolate them from the rest, you don't know what it could be..

Fluids, milk and electrolyte total for the day needs to be 4-6 litres.
Broken into 3 feeds if you can..
1 litre electrolyte followed 30 minutes later by 1 litre milk. The 30 minutes allows the electrolyte to be absorbed and balances the electrolytes in the blood, now the milk will be better absorbed into the calf's system, better results.

If I'm round during the day I'd even throw extra 1 or 2 electrolyte in to be sure.

We mix natural youghert into the milk along with a spoonful of binding agent used in the scour tablets, (for the life of me I can't think of the name but I'll check later). We find in all but severe cases this will get them back on their feet in 3-4 days.. Call the vet if it doesn't

Keep a check it's not coccidosis, contact vet if there is any chance it is..

If they dehydrate at all their blood pressure drops, they feel less like drinking/feeding and so get more dehydrated and weaker.. This goes on into a viscous circle.

We make up our own electrolyte powder from a recipe from the internet and then mix in a sachet of commercial stuff as there are a few extras in it.. (but we are from Cavan so that might explain that)

sh1tstirrer

bbam wrote: »

Ah crap.. Sorry to hear that...

He're's what we try to do for a bad scour...
Isolate them from the rest, you don't know what it could be..

Fluids, milk and electrolyte total for the day needs to be 4-6 litres.
Broken into 3 feeds if you can..
1 litre electrolyte followed 30 minutes later by 1 litre milk. The 30 minutes allows the electrolyte to be absorbed and balances the electrolytes in the blood, now the milk will be better absorbed into the calf's system, better results.

If I'm round during the day I'd even throw extra 1 or 2 electrolyte in to be sure.

We mix natural youghert into the milk along with a spoonful of binding agent used in the scour tablets, (for the life of me I can't think of the name but I'll check later). We find in all but severe cases this will get them back on their feet in 3-4 days.. Call the vet if it doesn't

Keep a check it's not coccidosis, contact vet if there is any chance it is..

If they dehydrate at all their blood pressure drops, they feel less like drinking/feeding and so get more dehydrated and weaker.. This goes on into a viscous circle.

We make up our own electrolyte powder from a recipe from the internet and then mix in a sachet of commercial stuff as there are a few extras in it.. (but we are from Cavan so that might explain that)

+1 As for the worrying it won't make the situation any better only put a few more grey hairs on your head, that's assuming you already have a few.

pakalasa

bbam wrote: »

...... (but we are from Cavan so that might explain that)

Coming from there, that must be something that's always at the back of your mind..........:D

LostCovey

bbam wrote: »

We make up our own electrolyte powder from a recipe from the internet and then mix in a sachet of commercial stuff as there are a few extras in it.. (but we are from Cavan so that might explain that)

The only bit I'd quibble with as first aid - I think it is very important to get the ratio of electrolytes and water spot-on, so I would go with one or the other - home-made, or commercial. If you just add dry commercial electrolyte salts to a reasonably well made up home-made mix, its too concentrated and runs the risk of making things worse. So I would go with the home-made or the commercial, just making it up as per instructions.

I think kaolin is the 'binding agent' you are trying to think of.

Best of luck with the calf.


LC

lakill Farm

well its late evening and he is still going. i have him more lifeline at 8pm and ill give him more in about 2 hours. i have no where to isolate him to. It almost sunds like he has something stuck in his throat but i checked and all is clear. Upside , he is standing and moving around so ill keep the efford up

whelan1

some one on here a few weeks ago was saying milk of magnessia, cant remember who it was but might be worth a shot... good luck with calf, keep it warm

bbam

LostCovey wrote: »

I think kaolin is the 'binding agent' you are trying to think of.

Yep.. Thats the stuff...
Mixing the electrolyte works a treat, but as you said never too concentrated..

sh1tstirrer

bbam wrote: »

LostCovey wrote: »

I think kaolin is the 'binding agent' you are trying to think of.

Yep.. Thats the stuff...
Mixing the electrolyte works a treat, but as you said never too concentrated..

Kaolin power would dry up an elephant. Before any one replies about the username connection got there before you.

whelan1

bimastat is a great product might be worth getting some from your vet, might be worth asking him for some

tim04750

If he is rattlin' in the lungs keep some strong antibiotics in him. neuflor, baytril or marbocyl and keep an eye that his temp isn't below normal

PatQfarmer

How's the calf, lakill?
Had a poorly one last week myself.
Make an isolation box. Best investment ever.
Both to stop spread and to allow sickie it's own space, heat lamp etc.
For scour vet recommends Synulox tabs. Great treatment!
So is Bimastat.
Some of our younger ones got a chill earlier in year and this caused scours.uckily we got treatment into them to ward off pneumonia.
Gotta be ever watchful.
Hope it recovers soon.

spt88

whelan1 wrote: »

bimastat is a great product might be worth getting some from your vet, might be worth asking him for some

ya its very good, although a vet was saying to me when its working for you its gr8 but when it stops working for you dont touch it for 5 or 6 yrs dunno what her reason was for it. also she maintained that sulphar no.2 powders were the only thing working for scour in calves under a week old..

ddogsbollix

Them synolox tablets and bimistat only work if it is a bacterial infection. if its not bacterial it can actually make the scour worse! I would recommend Electrolyte and keep on the milk as well as this.... natural yogurt is a great job!

ddogsbollix

Sounds like the calf has pnemonia to me! If he has a high temperature above 39.3 and a scour its 95% will be pneumonia! especially what you said about breathing heavy.

rancher

ddogsbollix wrote: »

Sounds like the calf has pnemonia to me! If he has a high temperature above 39.3 and a scour its 95% will be pneumonia! especially what you said about breathing heavy.

Can't believe that a vet hasn't seen him...

whelan1

rancher wrote: »

Can't believe that a vet hasn't seen him...

my thoughts too:)

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

my thoughts too:)

Ah come on lads, it sounds like the animal is holding its own. I'm sure we've all been there, if he's taking in the fluids and not getting worse it is tempting to hold on another day. However, it can go wrong quickly from here with sucks.

Larkhill, have you taken the temperature at all or how is it?

Also for isolation we use an old two cow trailer bedded with straw, then if it needs the vet the trailer can go behind the car and into the vet.

PatQfarmer

bbam wrote: »

Ah come on lads, it sounds like the animal is holding its own. I'm sure we've all been there, if he's taking in the fluids and not getting worse it is tempting to hold on another day. However, it can go wrong quickly from here with sucks.

Larkhill, have you taken the temperature at all or how is it?

Also for isolation we use an old two cow trailer bedded with straw, then if it needs the vet the trailer can go behind the car and into the vet.

Jeez bbam, that is the brightest idea I've seen all week, nay year!
A fantastic isolation box, mobile and easy to clean out.
Beats my pushing/carrying a calf 40metres to our isolation box:rolleyes:
I have an old trailer on farm that will be press-ganged into use next time I need one.
Thanks for that tip:D

ddogsbollix

The problem with holding out to see if the calf gets better is... if he does get worse his lungs may never recover which causes alot more problems down the line and may never reach its proper finishing weight. the other problem with the scour is that it can also cause damage to the small intestines that mightn't be able to repair itself either. A €30 vet call out now is cheaper in the long run...

whelan1

ddogsbollix wrote: »

The problem with holding out to see if the calf gets better is... if he does get worse his lungs may never recover which causes alot more problems down the line and may never reach its proper finishing weight. the other problem with the scour is that it can also cause damage to the small intestines that mightn't be able to repair itself either. A €30 vet call out now is cheaper in the long run...

jeez €30 your doing well, its €56 for a call out here

PatQfarmer

whelan1 wrote: »

jeez €30 your doing well, its €56 for a call out here

And €60 here!
That said, I did have one calf (that the Vet called out to!!) that developed emphysema. We have to mind him a lot. He is healthy, but has to be restricted in paddock size. If he gallops, the abscesses on his lungs burst and he needs antibiotic and Colvazone for a few days to rectify.
He is a bit smaller than the others, but thriving all the same.
Hope he makes it to finishing.

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

jeez €30 your doing well, its €56 for a call out here

Yea, €50 here.
I'm just saying its a judgment call, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. If its something I've not seen before I'd be quicker to get the vet.

lakill Farm

Ok, the fecker is going well. his temp was fine all along and No scour at all.

Wed 8am - 8ml resflour (antii mflam & antibio) (i test the vet he said it take 6 hours see how he is then) Call out is €65, calf cost €120 :rolleyes:
I tubed 1lite of lifeaid mix into him for fluids and electrolies. he was dyhydrated at all and had had his 2 lites of milk on tues evening
4pm wed - 6ml of resflor
8pm - 2lites of lifeaid
11pm - 8ml of resflor

Thurs 8am - 8ml of resflor & he drank milk on his own from the 10teat jfc feeder
6pm - 8ml of resflor & 2 litres of milk & 1lites of lifeaid

Friday - almost knocked me down coming in the door , had his 2litres of milk, pushed calves around and ate meal & hay. No other calves have any signs.

Ill give him 8ml later around 4pm

Thanks for all the advice.

bbam

Nice one!

PatQfarmer

Glad to hear it:D

lakill Farm

not bad for an accountant ye mean

Im feeling generious all. Farm accounts for €350 a year all in. :eek:

ddogsbollix

Glad to hear it! Sorry its €30 when ya no the vet as well as i do!

Lizard_Moon

lakill Farm wrote: »

Ok, the fecker is going well. his temp was fine all along and No scour at all.

Wed 8am - 8ml resflour (antii mflam & antibio) (i test the vet he said it take 6 hours see how he is then) Call out is €65, calf cost €120 :rolleyes:
I tubed 1lite of lifeaid mix into him for fluids and electrolies. he was dyhydrated at all and had had his 2 lites of milk on tues evening
4pm wed - 6ml of resflor
8pm - 2lites of lifeaid
11pm - 8ml of resflor

Thurs 8am - 8ml of resflor & he drank milk on his own from the 10teat jfc feeder
6pm - 8ml of resflor & 2 litres of milk & 1lites of lifeaid

Friday - almost knocked me down coming in the door , had his 2litres of milk, pushed calves around and ate meal & hay. No other calves have any signs.

Ill give him 8ml later around 4pm

Thanks for all the advice.

Please can you check with the Vet/drug supplier as Resflor (Nuflor and an anti inflammatory) is a SINGLE injection under the skin?
Dose rate 2ml/15kg.
Not for calves under 6 weeks of age

whelan1

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

Please can you check with the Vet/drug supplier as Resflor (Nuflor and an anti inflammatory) is a SINGLE injection under the skin

have never used this, how does the op have a bottle of this if its a single dose antibiotic?

rancher

whelan1 wrote: »

, how does the op have a bottle of this if its a single dose antibiotic?

Don't think we'll go down that road....

LostCovey

PLEASE NOTE:

I HAVE BEEN AS GOOD AS GOLD ALL THROUGH THIS THREAD.

lakill Farm

whelan1 wrote: »

have never used this, how does the op have a bottle of this if its a single dose antibiotic?

I got a 100ml bottle in fed on precription off the vet. Single use or not, the calf is alive and triving again. Rules v death?

Lizard_Moon

lakill Farm wrote: »

I got a 100ml bottle in fed on precription off the vet. Single use or not, the calf is alive and triving again. Rules v death?

There is no problem getting the bottle on prescription but I asked you to check the dose rate. This is a single dose drug. I didn't want other people following the pharmaceutical side your treatment plan!

Repeated injectins with a 'flunixin' containing drug can possibly lead to kidney damage or stomach ulceration. Resflor has both an antibiotic-Nuflor- and an antiinflammatory-Finadyne- in it.

And it's bloody expensive so you used about 4 times the drug you needed. Drug dosages are not suggestions they are scientifically calculated and balance the positive effects of treatment with the negative side effects.

I am pleased your calf responded but maybe you would have had the same result with only 1 injection of antibiotic in conjunction with the excellent nursing care it received.

whelan1

always read the label....not being smart but mydaughter got the wrong dosage of medication,- pharmacy's fault, not even going to go there:rolleyes:- luckilly i copped on after the first dose, she was hospitalised for nearly a week , i know humans are different but i am unreal about reading labels now....

Kovu

Yes, always double check the dose rate. I was put into hospital over this before!

lakill Farm

to be honest i didnt read the label, and im sorry for been cranky in yesterdays reply. When i first saw him i really didnt think he was going to pull through. I have no other drugs here . i keep it simple. As the OH says if a calf coughts twice in the shed he hets 8ml. I get its because a few years ago i lost a few in bought in calfs (1st ever batch of calves) with IBR. DEALERS :mad: