Landlord keeping deposit

Rosina1969

Have just moved out of duplex, and the agency is keeping 250 euro of the 1000 euro deposit for 'deep cleaning'. Does anyone know if this is even legal. Have been renting for years and always do a good clean before I leave, and have always gotten my deposit back in full until now... I think the agency are being vindictive to me - issues when I was renting the place- any advice gratefully received...

Monty Burnz

Rosina1969 wrote: »

Have just moved out of duplex, and the agency is keeping 250 euro of the 1000 euro deposit for 'deep cleaning'. Does anyone know if this is even legal. Have been renting for years and always do a good clean before I leave, and have always gotten my deposit back in full until now... I think the agency are being vindictive to me - issues when I was renting the place- any advice gratefully received...

Talk to Threshold and lodge a complaint with the PTRB. The landlord was registered with the PTRB, right?

aN.Droid

Rosina1969 wrote: »

Have just moved out of duplex, and the agency is keeping 250 euro of the 1000 euro deposit for 'deep cleaning'. Does anyone know if this is even legal. Have been renting for years and always do a good clean before I leave, and have always gotten my deposit back in full until now... I think the agency are being vindictive to me - issues when I was renting the place- any advice gratefully received...

No it is not legal as long as the place is in the same condition as when you entered it. Tell them you want your full deposit back or you will be taking it further with the PRTB.

Also get onto Threshold. They are the charity set up to help tenants out in these situations. They will let you know of your rights and will give you advice on how to take care of this situation.

EDIT// Monty got there before me

Motorist

Utter $cumbags, get your money back. Deep clean hor$e****, flucking conmen.

ted1

They need to furnace you with a receipt shown the cost.

Busi Girl

Ya, same happened me in south Dublin and I had had a few problems with the agency during my time living there. I demanded a copy of receipt of cleaning the house from the agency because either the landlord/agency was going to pocket the €250...just thought it fair that if i'm forking out that the new tenant actually deserves a spotless house! Don't really know where you legally stand in relation to it...

Rosina1969

Yes landlord is registered with PRTB. He actually lives out of the country and has the agency do everything.

Agency says
"Unfortunately, the property does need to be cleaned. The quote for same is attached."

Have emailed and texted landlord directly as he always seemed a decent man. The agency have it in for me though. Seem to have it in for all tenants from what I've heard around charlesland. I've been renting for over 20 years and have never had the deposit retained. MAybe i've just been lucky, but I cleaned the place thoroughly before I left... cleaner than before I moved in... AND they're getting new carpets put in and the whole place painted, so surely it would need to be cleaned again after all that in any case...?? I'm so angry that I have to even fight this - am a decent tenant - I should get it all back end of story

Rosina1969

PS when I think of it now - I scrubbed the bathrooms... and I painted the downstairs toilet and one of the bedrooms as they were manky - at my own cost... He couldnt have had a better tenant, even if I do say so myself!!!

aN.Droid

Rosina1969 wrote: »

PS when I think of it now - I scrubbed the bathrooms... and I painted the downstairs toilet and one of the bedrooms as they were manky - at my own cost... He couldnt have had a better tenant, even if I do say so myself!!!

Get onto threshold first thing tomorrow they will let you know what you have to do.

Rosina1969

Had long conversation with landlord today, and it turns out he has no objection to the deposit being refunded in full - it's the agent... LAndlord lives abroad, so he said he could only go on the agent's word if it was clean or not. I said I would go back in and do more cleaning, and he said ok, but at the end of the day it's the agent's word against mine...

Am going to take my own photos - it's a big enough place though, I'm sure she will find something not quite clean enough. Am wondering if it's even worth my time going in to clean it again, when I'm sure she will find another bone to pick with me. She is determined to do this, I dont know why she has it in for me, but she's being really horrible about it...

Any advice....

Mountjoy Mugger

There's such a thing as normal wear and tear. You cannot be charged for this. If they are replacing the carpet, what's the deep cleaning for?

Tell them you're taking it up with the PRTB.

Rosina1969

The agent says she contacted a cleaning agency and asked them if the property was clean. They gave her a list of what needed to be done - all cupboards and presses to be scrubbed out, oven ( I did the oven 2 weeks ago...), light switches, mopping and hoovering (I used a floor polisher on the wooden floors, and mopped and hoovered everything before I left...). The thing is, even if I go back in and do more cleaning, will she just find more things... Landlord says he is washing his hands of it - he doesnt want to know any more about it - he will just take the word of the agent. Agent says its nothing to do with her, that he has the deposit, and she just tells him if it's clean or not... Am so fed up and stressed.

Edited to add - I mean of COURSE a cleaning company is going to find things that can be cleaned - they want the business!!! When I pointed this out to the agent she said ' well all I know is that I asked them for their opinion, and I concur with their view'...

aN.Droid

Rosina1969 wrote: »

The agent says she contacted a cleaning agency and asked them if the property was clean. They gave her a list of what needed to be done - all cupboards and presses to be scrubbed out, oven ( I did the oven 2 weeks ago...), light switches, mopping and hoovering (I used a floor polisher on the wooden floors, and mopped and hoovered everything before I left...). The thing is, even if I go back in and do more cleaning, will she just find more things... Landlord says he is washing his hands of it - he doesnt want to know any more about it - he will just take the word of the agent. Agent says its nothing to do with her, that he has the deposit, and she just tells him if it's clean or not... Am so fed up and stressed.

Edited to add - I mean of COURSE a cleaning company is going to find things that can be cleaned - they want the business!!! When I pointed this out to the agent she said ' well all I know is that I asked them for their opinion, and I concur with their view'...

Get onto threshold these are the people you need to talk too, there is not much more we can do to help you here.

LEIN

Moved from Wicklow.

Fiii

They cannot take ANYTHING from your deposit for cleaning, unless it is above normal wear and tear, ie burnt carpet, etc.
None of the things mentioned above count as anything other than normal wear and tear, and the agent knows that.

Tell them you are taking the case to the PRTB, and then contact Threshold.
So sick of landlords/ agents pulling this crap.

quietsailor

Rosina1969 wrote: »

Yes landlord is registered with PRTB. He actually lives out of the country and has the agency do everything.

Agency says
"Unfortunately, the property does need to be cleaned. The quote for same is attached."

Have emailed and texted landlord directly as he always seemed a decent man. The agency have it in for me though. Seem to have it in for all tenants from what I've heard around charlesland. I've been renting for over 20 years and have never had the deposit retained. MAybe i've just been lucky, but I cleaned the place thoroughly before I left... cleaner than before I moved in... AND they're getting new carpets put in and the whole place painted, so surely it would need to be cleaned again after all that in any case...?? I'm so angry that I have to even fight this - am a decent tenant - I should get it all back end of story

Forget trying to talk to this agent, they seem to be out to keep the money. From now on commnuicate by text or email and save all those texts.


1. Warn the LL your going to make a big stink about this - PRTB, revenue etc, No-one wants the revenue after them, that might be enough to get the LL pissed off enough with the agency to tell them "refund the full deposit or I change agencies". The LL seems to have been decent to you up to now so maybe you can enlist his support here, but if you sandbag him with a PRTB/Revenue complaint he won't like you any more

2. Tomorrow email the agency telling them you want your deposit back in full or your taking a case to the PRTB, cc the PRTB dispute email address I doubt they'll back down so....

3. Tell them you want proof the cleaners cleaned your house ie photos or videos of the cleaners in there - how do you know the agent isn't getting the cleaner to clean a different house. In fact if you have the time off during the week tell them you want to be there to take photos of this cleaning.

4. Go ahead with a dispute if they don't return the €250. I know this means a lot of work for you but as long as tenants keep rolling over and allowing their money to be stolen it will continue to happen - some of ye somewhere have to start standing up for your rights, why not you OP?

gurramok

Yeh another justifiable reason for a tenant withholding last months rent in order to avoid this crap.
The cleaning company would say it needs to be cleaned, they're getting a few bob out of it!
If you take photos(and video), you could email them directly to the agency\landlord as proof. Keep them for the PRTB as well, lodge that complaint straightaway.

Lantus

This is a very popular scam and unfortuantley I fell prey to it in the UK. It also was with an absent Landlord who lived in the USA at the time and the agency 'spoke for him' In hindsight I doubt they ever bothered. Skimming the deposit is an easy wasy to make money it seems.

I wish I knew now what I did then.

Stick to your guns. The inventory will have the condition of everything on it and that is the contract document you signed as to the condition of everything. Where there photo's of the property of the time on line or otherwise that you still have? If so you can use them.

Maybe I would contact the LL and say that you are being put in a difficult position and wil have to get PTRB and Revenue involved unless the full deposit is returned to you. He has already turned his back on you while the agent try's to put their hands in your pockets so dont be feeling any sense of loyality towards him. Apply pressure gently and it may work. (not as a threat, just as a I dont want to but I dont have any choice if the agent goes down this route who can help me?) The landlord may decide that a few hundred euro isn't worth the effort and tell the agent to release it.

Gandhi

Definitely take photos of the property showing it is clean.

Email the agency and landlord the photos, and tell them:

1. you will take it to the PRTB and the photos prove you left the place perfectly clean and you are entitled to a full deposit back

2. If they want to pay E250 to get a "deep cleaning" done on a house that is already perfectly clean, then it is nothing to do with you.

I would not mention too much about getting receipts from the cleaners. I would stick to the position that the house is clean, you want your deposit back, end of conversation.

quietsailor

gurramok wrote: »

Yeh another justifiable reason for a tenant withholding last months rent in order to avoid this crap.

Please stop advocating this crap - all your going to do is force the LLs to start asking for;
1 months rent as deposit
1st months rent
last months rent

I've even see some LLs asking for a utility deposit (where the bills are kept in the LLs name e.g 3 month tenancies) and that could be another month's rent. If people start "not paying the last months rent hur hur" the we're going to be looking at LLs asking for 3-4 months worth of rent in advance. Most people don't have that money.

djimi

Its not uncommon to be asked for two months rent as deposit in the UK is it?

aN.Droid

quietsailor wrote: »

Please stop advocating this crap - all your going to do is force the LLs to start asking for;
1 months rent as deposit
1st months rent
last months rent

I've even see some LLs asking for a utility deposit (where the bills are kept in the LLs name e.g 3 month tenancies) and that could be another month's rent. If people start "not paying the last months rent hur hur" the we're going to be looking at LLs asking for 3-4 months worth of rent in advance. Most people don't have that money.

If a landlord asked that of me I would tell them where to go and find somewhere else.

djimi

You might now, as would I, but the point is that if everyone started using their deposit as their last months rent then it would very quickly become the norm for landlords to look for a deposit equalling 2-3 months rent instead of one months as we have it now.

Mr.Wemmick

It's about time deposits were put into a bank a/c that needs both signatures of Landlord and tenant before the money can be released. That way, both parties can argue and sort out disputes fairly. The money being in the possession of the agent or landlord obviously doesn't work and leads to tenants being ripped off.

If the agent is failing to deal with you fairly OP, then you need to contact her by writing only and tell her to respond to you in kind - copy in Landlord and PRTB. She needs to prove a great many things before she can do what she is threatening to do.. sounds like a right old bully to me.

If you still get no where with her then yes, I would too live out your deposit and leave the house in good/clean condition.

It is your money - she has no right to it without just cause.

djimi

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

It's about time deposits were put into a bank a/c that needs both signatures of Landlord and tenant before the money can be released. That way, both parties can argue and sort out disputes fairly. The money being in the possession of the agent or landlord obviously doesn't work and leads to tenants being ripped off.

If the agent is failing to deal with you fairly OP, then you need to contact her by writing only and tell her to respond to you in kind - copy in Landlord and PRTB. She needs to prove a great many things before she can do what she is threatening to do.. sounds like a right old bully to me.

If you still get no where with her then yes, I would too live out your deposit and leave the house in good/clean condition.

It is your money - she has no right to it without just cause.

Or bring in a system like in England where the deposit is held by a 3rd party. The way we have it over here is a joke; its laughable to think that the money is effectively in the pocket of the landlord and is at their mercy as to how much (if any) they give back. Its so open to abuse its unreal.

odds_on

Motorist wrote: »

Utter $cumbags, get your money back. Deep clean hor$e****, flucking conmen.

Of course, Motorist, all tenants are perfect ........

PRTB disputes
DR1440/2007
The Respondent Tenant shall pay the sum of €3,622.15 to the Applicant Landlord within 10 days of receipt of the date of issue of this order, being €1248.50 for cleaning charges, €527 in respect of an outstanding gas bill and €1846.65 for repairs and replacements in excess of normal wear and tear

DR1418/2008
The Respondent Tenants shall pay €13,025.24 to the Applicant Landlord, within seven days from the date of issue of this Order being arrears of rent of €9,858, a Gas Bill of €1,367.24, missing items totalling €800, replacement door locks and keys totalling €300, replacement of shower totalling €400 and €1,500 for cleaning, repairs and maintenance in excess of normal wear and tear

DR162/2008
The Respondent Tenant shall pay €2,810 to the Applicant Landlord within fourteen days from the date of issue of this Order, being rent arrears of €3,500 and expenses for cleaning of €960, having allowed for the security deposit of €1,650

djimi

Thats quite impressive to rack up a cleaning bill of nearly a grand to be fair!

(impressive may be the wrong word...!)

someuser905

1st rule of renting - never pay the last months rent

Mr.Wemmick

odds_on wrote: »

Of course, Motorist, all tenants are perfect ........

PRTB disputes
DR1440/2007
The Respondent Tenant shall pay the sum of €3,622.15 to the Applicant Landlord within 10 days of receipt of the date of issue of this order, being €1248.50 for cleaning charges, €527 in respect of an outstanding gas bill and €1846.65 for repairs and replacements in excess of normal wear and tear

DR1418/2008
The Respondent Tenants shall pay €13,025.24 to the Applicant Landlord, within seven days from the date of issue of this Order being arrears of rent of €9,858, a Gas Bill of €1,367.24, missing items totalling €800, replacement door locks and keys totalling €300, replacement of shower totalling €400 and €1,500 for cleaning, repairs and maintenance in excess of normal wear and tear

DR162/2008
The Respondent Tenant shall pay €2,810 to the Applicant Landlord within fourteen days from the date of issue of this Order, being rent arrears of €3,500 and expenses for cleaning of €960, having allowed for the security deposit of €1,650

Goes to show you, if there were more unfurnished properties to rent and tenants came along with their own furniture, they would be more likely to respect and look after the property better. Especially if their own hard earned cash has bought the sofa, beds etc. property care would be a whole different ball game.

Leave the furnished accommodation to the students please..
and bring the Irish rental market including rent deposit methods up to date.

*spot the person who has just spent too many months looking for an unfurnished rental *

n900guy

djimi wrote: »

Or bring in a system like in England where the deposit is held by a 3rd party. The way we have it over here is a joke; its laughable to think that the money is effectively in the pocket of the landlord and is at their mercy as to how much (if any) they give back. Its so open to abuse its unreal.

In the UK and Netherlands furnished properties go for 2 (sometimes 3) months deposit but that is really for damage to furniture that may happen; unfurnished in NL a lot have no deposit just the registration fees (which you pay as a tenant). Also in the UK a typical part of the tenancy agreement is that you have the property professionally cleaned when you are moving out. It's really the only way this sort of thing can be stopped ("i cleaned it myself, etc., ).

It wouldn't be difficult to open a joint bank account with the deposit in it for the year. Money stays until all parties are happy. Apartment professionaly cleaned at the end of tenancy at the tenant's cost (or else these sort of situations happen).

Elvis_Presley

n900guy wrote: »

In the UK and Netherlands furnished properties go for 2 (sometimes 3) months deposit but that is really for damage to furniture that may happen; unfurnished in NL a lot have no deposit just the registration fees (which you pay as a tenant). Also in the UK a typical part of the tenancy agreement is that you have the property professionally cleaned when you are moving out. It's really the only way this sort of thing can be stopped ("i cleaned it myself, etc., ).

It wouldn't be difficult to open a joint bank account with the deposit in it for the year. Money stays until all parties are happy. Apartment professionaly cleaned at the end of tenancy at the tenant's cost (or else these sort of situations happen).

Having lived in the UK a long time this is rubbish. If anyone asked for more than month's rent as deposit they would be laughed at. I've had many leases, I would never sign one that said I had to get the place professionally cleaned.