Schools for non Christened Children

Killed By Death

Hello All, Hoping to hear some of your advice and experience re what to do regarding school for my little girl. First let me point out, she's not even born yet but I'd like to start getting my head around the issue.

Myself and my partner are both lapsed Catholics. He is adament he does not want the baby Christened. I have no problems with that in itself, I have no love for the CC after the abuse scandals although I do have some sort of personal belief in God and see that as seperate to the CC. The problem I do have though, is we have no Educate Together school near us. I mean the nearest one is an hours drive away in heavy motorway traffic.

Surely we are not the only parents in this dilemma. How have others got around this issue?

In all liklihood it will be me doing the school run so I need to think ahead.

There is a very good (Catholic) school 10 minutes walk away. It'd be lovely to send her there where she could make friends in her own area instead of spending half her childhood in traffic. Do Catholic schools accept un-Christened children?

I would reluctantly go through the motions of having her Christened I suppose if there is no alternative.

What does everyone else do?

Gurgle

Killed By Death wrote: »

Do Catholic schools accept un-Christened children?

Yes they do, its a non-issue.

Every now and then some principle / board of management announce that they're going to give preference to catholics over non-catholics and they get yelled at by everyone from the media to the Minister.

The only problem is they still let priests & gnomes (as was reported in my house one evening) in to talk to the kids about God. Just be sure the kid is warned to ignore anything said by anyone who is dressed all in black. (except ninjas of course)

Sleepy

Non issue, my step-son was christened Catholic by his fathers' family and attends a COI school. My daughter who will never be christened unless I fail as a parent and she grows up lacking common sense will be attending the same school in 2 years time.

Big Bag of Chips

The do accept children who aren't christened. But the class would still do religion, and say prayers. And they would also be some preparations and practise for communion and confirmation.

Your child obviously would not be taking part in this.

I know some schools at the moment aren't very well equipped to deal with non-catholic children, but maybe its changing, and by the time your child starts school there will be more to offer them rather than sitting at the back of the class or going to another room.

At the same time, if its a catholic school, its a catholic school, and they will say their prayers and occasionally have school mass etc...

Sleepy

Also: Ruari Quinn seems to be on the right path education wise at the moment, there may be no such thing a publicly funded Catholic school by the time your daughter's of school-going age.

Killed By Death

Oh wow. That is such a massive relief. Thank you all so much! And @ 'gnomes' -that's too polite a word for them in my experience!

Thanks again all.

iguana

Sleepy wrote: »

Also: Ruari Quinn seems to be on the right path education wise at the moment, there may be no such thing a publicly funded Catholic school by the time your daughter's of school-going age.

It's not that good a plan. About half of the state's Catholic primary schools should be changing patronage over the next few years, not all of them.

BostonB

One of our local RC catholic schools has a quota of 30% for non RC's. As its over subscribed, it might be easier to get into the school if you drop the RC faith. I expect this might become more common over time. We also have a few multi-denominational schools (and the number is increasing) in the area.

TBH if the RC was trying to drive people away it couldn't do a better job. I would imagine in 5~10 yrs the RC Church/Faith in Ireland, and especially in schools be largely non existent for the majority of kids, and adults for that matter.

iguana

Oh yeah, I suggested this on a similar thread but whatever happens there is no need to rush anything. If it does happen that you really, really can't get a school place if your daughter isn't baptised there is no reason why a 4 or 5 year old can't be baptised. So just wait and see for the next few years.

mirekb

n

Gurgle wrote: »

Yes they do, its a non-issue.

Every now and then some principle / board of management announce that they're going to give preference to catholics over non-catholics and they get yelled at by everyone from the media to the Minister.

The only problem is they still let priests & gnomes (as was reported in my house one evening) in to talk to the kids about God. Just be sure the kid is warned to ignore anything said by anyone who is dressed all in black. (except ninjas of course)

Not really a non-issue for everyone. In our area the Catholic school policies let in the non-christened AFTER:

a) siblings
b) Catholic children from cachement area (the parish)
c) Protestant children (or other faith) children from the parish
d) Catholic children from outside the cachement area
e) Un-christened children

The COI school is similar - in fact harder to get into - a friend of mine did an Article 27 against our local COI school based on discrimination due to religious reasons and lost.

An Educate Together opened in our area based on first come first served - so now we have a lot of choice for everyone (except ninjas) which is great (for everyone except the ninjas). But before the ET school opened there were parents who had to send their kids out of their community to go to school and it wasn't a non-issue for them.

Gurgle

mirekb wrote: »

The COI school is similar - in fact harder to get into - a friend of mine did an Article 27 against our local COI school based on discrimination due to religious reasons and lost.

Is the COI school private?
It would be worth taking the case against the catholic school, if nobody pushes them they won't change the policy. As a 100% publicly funded school their position is indefensible.

mirekb wrote: »

An Educate Together opened in our area based on first come first served - so now we have a lot of choice for everyone (except ninjas) which is great (for everyone except the ninjas). But before the ET school opened there were parents who had to send their kids out of their community to go to school and it wasn't a non-issue for them.

I can assure you that ninjas are allowed in ET schools.

iguana

Gurgle wrote: »

It would be worth taking the case against the catholic school, if nobody pushes them they won't change the policy. As a 100% publicly funded school their position is indefensible.

Unfortunately they have a special exemption status issued to them by the EU. They have no legal obligation whatsoever to take in non-Catholic children. A case would be pointless, they have the law 100% on their side.

mirekb

Gurgle wrote: »

Is the COI school private?
It would be worth taking the case against the catholic school, if nobody pushes them they won't change the policy. As a 100% publicly funded school their position is indefensible.

I can assure you that ninjas are allowed in ET schools.

The COI is state funded - but if you look at the constitution then schools and hospitals are the two institutions allowed to discriminate by 'ethos' i.e religion..

But there are no 'ninja schools' (or muslim schools, buddhist schools etc..) in the area. Just to illustrate my opinion that all state funded schools should be of the same model and faith should be taught at home, otherwise it is ALL discrimination against someone.. I love the ET model for their Learn Together Curriculum but I also think they are the fairest in terms of ALL policies (not just religious ones).

Back on thread for the OP - if you feel it's ok to get her christened for school then go for it. Is your local school over-subscribed? Ring them and check their admissions policy before you decide anything. The most important thing is that you are happy with the school, the Principal and the atmosphere

liliq

mirekb wrote: »

Not really a non-issue for everyone. In our area the Catholic school policies let in the non-christened AFTER:

a) siblings
b) Catholic children from cachement area (the parish)
c) Protestant children (or other faith) children from the parish
d) Catholic children from outside the cachement area
e) Un-christened children

An Educate Together opened in our area based on first come first served - so now we have a lot of choice for everyone (except ninjas) which is great (for everyone except the ninjas). But before the ET school opened there were parents who had to send their kids out of their community to go to school and it wasn't a non-issue for them.

Exact same situation here. We live SEVEN DOORS down from our local school but because we won't christen R just to get him into the school he's in the "e" catagory of kids that will be accepted.
Two educate together schools are opening locally enough in September, if they're within walking distance I'll be thrilled. If not, I'll be hoping the 7 doors down school is one of the ones that is removed from RC patronage.

Morag

Both mine are unchirstened.

When my eldest started school there wasn't a big demand for places and as the school gets funded with a grant per child they were more then happy to have him making up the numbers, also you will find that the school will accept non catholic children to graciously give them a 'moral education' ( like they'd not get one other wise).

When my youngest started school, there was a bigger demand for places but as she had a sibling already in the school she was able to attend.

We did have to go every year and explain to each new teacher at the start of the year they were not taking part in RE as it was presumed as they are white irish kids that they were at least christian.

Neither of them were able to join the school choir as it seems only to exist to preform hymn as different events over the school year which happen in the church.

This year a form came home which enabled parents to opt their child out of any impromptu trip to the parish church which is on the same site as the school. Perviosuly the whole class would have been walked over, at least now they supervise those children in the school.

Over all the school have been good for my kids but we seem to have been the brunt of the learning curve for it in terms of agnostic kids. I would have preferred an educate together school but even now there is not one with in 20 mins walk of the house or on a bus route.

Gurgle

mirekb wrote: »

if you look at the constitution then schools and hospitals are the two institutions allowed to discriminate by 'ethos' i.e religion..

Feck, really?
I never realized they managed to get permission in writing (and haven't time to check it now).

Where is the alleged constitutional reform commission?
That thing leaks like a sieve in all the wrong places.

mirekb

Gurgle wrote: »

Feck, really?
I never realized they managed to get permission in writing (and haven't time to check it now).

Where is the alleged constitutional reform commission?
That thing leaks like a sieve in all the wrong places.

Look at Article 44 of the Constitution and at Section 7 of the Equal Status Act (sub-section 3(c)) - sorry on ohone so can't link it.