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BARF Diet
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03-05-2012 9:38pm#1
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Hi guys, thanks for the info here - I've always been brought up to believe that the raw food diet is a bad idea for dogs in rural areas? i.e. giving them a potential taste for livestock? What are people's thoughts on this? But I did give my guy a few raw rib bones as a pup and he spent days with them, absolutely loved it - but my parents were shaking their heads - surely not such a big deal with it's not a farm dog etc etc?
It's an urban legend that they get a taste for blood
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Whew, ok, just read through that monster of a thread that was going on back in January :eek: Sorry, I should have searched boards before starting this thread, naive me thinking that there wouldn't be much info/experience with BARF
That said, I still have a couple lingering questions that weren't really addressed in the other threads, so here goes:
1) Yoghurt: would this be a daily addition to a raw diet, or less often? Our German Shep seems to have a very sensitive system (I think a packaged bone has caused his explosiveness for the last few days
) so we're wanting to regenerate the healthy gut.
2) I've heard about soaking bones in cider vinegar prior to eating b/c it completely eliminates the possiblity of creating blockages or injury. Turns the bones quite rubberly actually. Also, the vinegar apparently has nutritional benefits all on its own. Any thoughts?
3) As the owner of a Great Dane, German Shep & Rottie, our main concerns are for joint maintenance & healthy hearts. Would there be any special supplements to add (or avoid!) in creating a BARF menu? We've already started the salmon oil (15mls/day as suggested on the packaging) - anything else?0 -
1) Yoghurt: would this be a daily addition to a raw diet, or less often? Our German Shep seems to have a very sensitive system (I think a packaged bone has caused his explosiveness for the last few days) so we're wanting to regenerate the healthy gut.
I give a spoon of natural low fat yogurt on my lot's dinner every day, helps keep farts down and good intestinal flora2) I've heard about soaking bones in cider vinegar prior to eating b/c it completely eliminates the possiblity of creating blockages or injury. Turns the bones quite rubberly actually. Also, the vinegar apparently has nutritional benefits all on its own. Any thoughts?
I know cider vinegar is very very good for them, haven't heard about soaking bones in it though so can't comment about making them rubbery. Part of the benefit of feeding whole bones would be the cleaning effect on their teeth which you would miss if you made the bones soft.3) As the owner of a Great Dane, German Shep & Rottie, our main concerns are for joint maintenance & healthy hearts. Would there be any special supplements to add (or avoid!) in creating a BARF menu? We've already started the salmon oil (15mls/day as suggested on the packaging) - anything else?
Avoid cod liver oil, there's too much vitamen A in it for dogs. Fish oils in general are excellent. You could also feed whole oily fish like mackrel to help with joints. Pet shops also sell pet glucosamine for joints so that would be another option.
Make sure you start them off on an exclusion diet, so give one type of meat for 3 or 4 days and make sure they're ok on it before introducing somehting else. If they're allergic to something you'll see straight away. There's a large number of dogs allergic to chicken so bear that in mind if your dog is still explosive, it may not be the bone content rather the type of meat. A GSD I know that went on the diet didn't start on it well due to runny bum but after a trip to a animal allergist (didn't know such a thing existed!) they discovered he was allergic to chicken and pork, they cut those out and he's absolutely thriving.0 -
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I have been feeding raw for about 3 months now, and I could not be happier with the results. My dog is happier, healthier and more alert, for the difference in food.
The only tricky thing, and it's not very tricky, is to make sure they don't get the same meats too often in a row.
Usually once a month I go out shopping for meats, some from wholesalers, and some from supermarkets. I know my dog will need a minimum of 500g of meat and bone a day, so I know I'll need 15Kg for the month. The reason I know this, is the rule of thumb that acts as a guide to raw feeding, if you know the ideal adult weight of the breed of dog, we can use my dog for an example here, Siberian Husky, breed standard weight for a female is 18-23Kg, depending on the frame of the dog.
Lets aim for the middle ground and say her ideal adult weight is 20Kg, we need to find out what 3% of 20Kg is, lets ask google....600g, and that is her daily food intake. Minus 100g for treats and scraps you may give during the day, and were looking at 500g of meat and bone + treats = 600g a day.
I usually get beef,pork,duck (whole), chicken (whole) and tinned mackerel or sardines.
Then I spend an hour, dividing up the whole birds, and weighing 250g packets into freezer bags, can be a bit messy at first , but you will soon learn the best methods of dividing up the birds. (if you don't have a Meat Cleaver, get one for this)
When I'm done, I have 60x250g bags (meals), and I freezer the lot in a large plastic bag, to keep it separate from my own meats and veggies.
Then at meal times 8am and 6pm, my dog is given one meal, and the other comes out to defrost.
When it comes to feeding bone, you need to remember, raw bones are softer than cooked bones, cooked bones are dehydrated, raw bones are not, there is a serious risk of cutting or tearing your dogs GI track or stomach with cooked bones, so please don't ever give them, and load bearing bones are really bad also don't give those in any circumstance.
If she refuses the meal, after 20 minutes, it gets fridged and given back at the next meal, and the other one goes back into the freezer. It's not uncommon for a dog to refuse a meal, or two, I've heard of dogs holding out for up to 4 days, this is where you have to be very strong, showing weakness and feeding something else at this point will give the dog the upper hand, and it will lord it over you for life, so don't get upset by it, a dog will not allow itself to starve, offer the food and it will eat eventually.
A good tip I was given recently was not to give treats or scraps if it doesn't eat, that way the dog has nothing to arm itself with in the battle of wills they will go through every couple of months.
Personally I don't believe that dogs are omnivores, they can eat veggies and some fruits, but in general they will get all the sustenance they need from raw meat and bones as long as they get a varied diet, beef,pork,fowl,fish. It's what nature intended for them right at the start, and as humans we assume we know what's best, and to some extent we do, but without getting bogged down in nutritional data, graphs and spreadsheets, lets just assume mother nature knows what she is doing. ok?
Other peoples beliefs and opinions are other peoples, these are my thoughts and experiences and you may use them to your advantage, or discard them as you see fit, however there is a website and forum designed for raw feeding, specialising in working dogs, but can be used for any dog, and if you like, you can pm me, and I will send you the link to the site.
I have found it to be a wealth of knowledge and information and the owners and site team take great personal pride in providing the best information they can to all its members.
If all goes well, you will see the difference in your dog in just a few days, and you'll both enjoy a healthy and happy partnership for many, many years.
Take care, and best of luck with your BARF endeavours
Vince0 -
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I know I'll need 15Kg for the month.
I go through that a week
That is another point though. I had to buy a chest freezer for dog food.
I also give mine blended veggies, but like Vince said, each to their own. Do your research, look up forums and groups but don't get put off by the raw food nazi's, there's some in every forum. There's a number of ways to feed raw and you'll have to figure out what way suits your dogs and don't mind what anyone else says0 -
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I use this baby Thou I might add it was 30 quid cheaper when i got it from Amamzon (they were the seller) a few months ago!! So far it's done veg, 45kgs of chicken legs and 2 x leftover lamb for pies lol
I do a months supply at a time so buy 6 packs of legs from the butcher which gives 9kgs (sometimes a little more) of chicken which I then skin (as I need to keep him lean) and weigh to get the total amount of meat. I have a spreadsheet done up lol and I change the number of days (usually 28-31) to match the amount of meat I have and from that I know how much veg I need in total. Hopefully that makes sense! I make up extra veg portions too so once a week he'll get a tin of sardines or mackeral or a piece of liver etc0 -
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I use this baby Thou I might add it was 30 quid cheaper when i got it from Amamzon (they were the seller) a few months ago!! So far it's done veg, 45kgs of chicken legs and 2 x leftover lamb for pies lol
I do a months supply at a time so buy 6 packs of legs from the butcher which gives 9kgs (sometimes a little more) of chicken which I then skin (as I need to keep him lean) and weigh to get the total amount of meat. I have a spreadsheet done up lol and I change the number of days (usually 28-31) to match the amount of meat I have and from that I know how much veg I need in total. Hopefully that makes sense! I make up extra veg portions too so once a week he'll get a tin of sardines or mackeral or a piece of liver etc
Damn it I was hoping you wouldn't say that one, I found it earlier after posting, £100 minus postage, was hoping for something a little cheaper. Can't even find any second hand ones knocking about the place.
Do you plan on adding any other meats or offal in? Was doing a bit of reading there and he would need about 235g a day or 1.6kg a week, the chicken leg he got this evening was 300g and that was a small to medium sized one one! I'l have to buy a cleaver and see if I can hack them up a bit. Anyone any recommendations for nice sharp meat cleavers that don't cost an arm and a leg? 0 -
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Anyone any recommendations for nice sharp meat cleavers that don't cost an arm and a leg?
An off chance (and what may only be a short-term solution b/c the quality wouldn't be brilliant) but if you're in Sligo have you tried the home store (can't remember the name) up by Homebase/McD's? They have all sorts of kitchen stuff, may have a cleaver that would do for awhile.0 -
Make sense? Any thoughts on this idea?
Do you mean like use the sausage attachment thing? If so it'd be time consuming both for making it and cleaning (the kenwood bits can't go in the dishwasher and I'd assume other makes could be the same if they're stainless steel?). Anyhoos for say chicken legs you mince with the disc with the biggest holes and then would need to use a finer disk for the sausage thing so you'd have to mince the mix twice?
I mince the chicken legs into one bowl and then mince the veg into another..I use scoops and make up daily portions of meat and add a daily portion of veg (quicker than mixing up the meat and veg and I don't have a bowl big enough for everything lol), bag and freeze.. x 30
After the first few portions you automatically get more accurate with the measurements so it gets a lot faster. You don't need to do single meals - much easier and quicker to do a daily portion and then split in half at breakfast time. If it's slightly off it doesn't matter as the daily amount will still be the same 
That said I do a few single meals so he'll have a normal breakfast and then a treat dinner - sardines etc Our local butchers where I get the legs don't give bones but the one I order from online every few weeks will throw some in the order if I ask in the comments 
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I use this baby Thou I might add it was 30 quid cheaper when i got it from Amamzon (they were the seller) a few months ago!! So far it's done veg, 45kgs of chicken legs and 2 x leftover lamb for pies lol
Thanks tk! Will definitely think about getting one of those. It only just occurred to me after reading your post that I could use if for human food too!0 -
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I buy a stash of Naturediet to feed my crew when we're away. For the price, it seems to be a really well-balanced, meaty alternative that'll certainly do the job of tiding them over. I may supplement it with a small bit of spud or rice, but only a small bit, and a dollop of tinned pilchards or sardines.
I think it's reasonable enough to ask of a kennels? Do you think?:o
Good idea, I did look at Naturediet before trying raw and it seems a pretty good quality food. I'll give them a trial run on it I think and see how they get on. The guy who runs the kennels gives tinned fish to his own dogs, so I know he wouldn't have a problem with that.
Thanks for the info re: the heart too.Mauser 308 wrote: »If you look up a site www.dogsfirst.ie you will get some great Ideas and advise. It is full of info, and has a great recipe calculator.
Great site, the "recipe maker" is really useful!0 -
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