Garda over stepping the mark

iamthest1g

hi all

i got a little lost whilst out for a midnight drive with a friend of mine a few days ago and pulled into a garage to turn and head back the way we came, when a garda drove past.I flagged him down to ask the fastest way back to my destination and he proceded to issue us with a full inspection and search of the vehicle (with very little respect to the items within i might add!) and then searched meself and the passenger.His justification for the search was based on something he found during the search ( a stack of lotto scratch cards ) and he demanded i prove the purchace of these items immediatly.After i proved it(by the grace of god i had a few reciepts) he drove off with my insurance disk. Does any of this warrent me taking complaint procedure? i felt very intimidated by his insinuated threats and general attitude and just wanted to know what the position should be for myself

charlemont

Ombudsman...www.gardaombudsman.ie/

He took your disc, Yet you could get stopped further up the road and be fined or so for none display of insurance disc. I'd advise you to report this cowboy.

PammyD

Drove off with ur insurance disk??? That seems a lil odd alright... Did he bring it back like??

Procrastastudy

Forget it and move on imho but then I you'll find I normally side with the Gardai. If I had a bad day at work it might because a customer had been rude to me and I might be a bit off hand with a co-worker.

If a Gardai has had a bad day it's probably because he's dealt with someone smacking there partner around, a rape or worse. Therefore I tend to cut them a bit of slack. My attitude with stop and searches is - if you have nothing to hide and it's not down to the reason of belonging to an ethnic minority - whats the harm?

Incidently I might very well take the hump a little to be flaged down and used as a map. Bobby on the beat is one thing Garda Patrol car is quite another. Come across the same guy on a different day may very well be the nicest guy you've ever met. Well maybe not he is a garda :P Perhaps a trip down to the Station to recover the Disc and a quiet word with the duty Sgt.?

BTW OP these threads never get a "right answer" because the views are so polarised.

charlemont

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Forget it and move on imho but then I you'll find I normally side with the Gardai. If I had a bad day at work it might because a customer had been rude to me and I might be a bit off hand with a co-worker.

If a Gardai has had a bad day it's probably because he's dealt with someone smacking there partner around, a rape or worse. Therefore I tend to cut them a bit of slack. My attitude with stop and searches is - if you have nothing to hide and it's not down to the reason of belonging to an ethnic minority - whats the harm?

Come across the same guy on a different day may very well be the nicest guy you've ever met. Well maybe not he is a garda :P

BTW OP these threads never get a "right answer" because the views are so polarised.

No I wouldn't tolerate this at all, The taking of the insurance disc is basically theft, If I was in your car and took your disc you would think very different of it, wouldn't you ?

People are entitled to go about their business and not have to put up with bully-boy tactics off anyone, Garda or not, If he doesn't get complained against for this what will he do to the next innocent person that asks for his assistance ??

iamthest1g

PammyD wrote: »

Drove off with ur insurance disk??? That seems a lil odd alright... Did he bring it back like??

its the certificate of insurance he has and hes made no effort to contact me at all, i rang blessington this afternoon and got wired to baltinglass and the lovely lady told me this guard wasnt working last night.normally ive a rock solid bed of calm, but his conduct and speak shook me a little.thhe legality of the search is one thing thats been on my mind.

Procrastastudy

No Chalemont I wouldn't to be honest - I'd head down the station the next day and have a quiet word.

There's not a chance we'll agree on this tread and you and I both know it!

2qk4u

What reason did he give for taking the insurance disk ?
If you feel you were treated unfairly then make the complaint.

usernamegoes

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

If a Gardai has had a bad day it's probably because he's dealt with someone smacking there partner around, a rape or worse. Therefore I tend to cut them a bit of slack. My attitude with stop and searches is - if you have nothing to hide and it's not down to the reason of belonging to an ethnic minority - whats the harm?

I'd disagree with you here.

The police have a very difficult job; most deal with it properly. If there is an issue then professional help should be provided.

If you acted badly towards a member of the public in most private jobs there would consequences. However the problems are worse with the police inasmuch as they have huge amounts of power.

If I was in a shop and someone working there spoke to me rudely or did something on me I didn't like, I'd tell them to take a hike and walk off. You can't do this with the police. Not least because I am sure then you'd be charged with a criminal offence.

As for the 'nothing to hide view' I am not a big believer in that. Would you put any limits on it? Would you allow them install a listening device in your home?

Just my view.

PammyD

He has no right to take the cert on you whatsoever at all.. I'd defintely go further about this!!

iamthest1g

2qk4u wrote: »

What reason did he give for taking the insurance disk ?
If you feel you were treated unfairly then make the complaint.

he took it, the doe cert and my licence off to the car for checks and didnt return the insurance cert, it'll be the last time i ask for directions again, he more or less said i broke into the garage and stole a bunch of scratch cards, which is odd because he seen me turn into the garage and i make contact with him 10 seconds later.i'd love to meet the man who can scratch and sort 100 all cash in 10 seconds:D

johnners2981

To search you the garda has to have a reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence, being in possession of scratchcards is not suspicious (unless by stack you mean an awful lot that might of been obtained in a robbery?).

And just because some garda is having a bad day for whatever reason is no excuse to act unprofessionally.

iamthest1g

and on this point, this is the 5 time ive been stopped and 2nd for search in 5 months, could there be a reason for me constantly being stopped.?

underachieved

not a garda lover or anything but.......

you were out in the middle of the night driving around a country area you're not local to, in the forcourt of a closed garage with a hundred scratch cards???????

and you wonder why the guard searched you??????

also did you ask him why he was keeping your cert???? he is human???? maybe he thought he gave it back with the rest of your stuff???? would it not be wiser to talk to him directly rather than post about it???

Procrastastudy

iamthest1g wrote: »

and on this point, this is the 5 time ive been stopped and 2nd for search in 5 months, could there be a reason for me constantly being stopped.?

Do you drive an early model Honda Civic or are "midnight drives" a regular thing?

I have a theory on Gardai and that is most of them are pretty lazy. Now do lazy people go around making work for themselves unless there is a good reason?

That's not really directed at you OP just the general feeling that the Gardai go around stopping bazzilions of people becuase they want to.

PS Are there markers on cars here? In the UK the ANPR will tell a cop if there is a drugs or anti-social behaviour etc. marker on the car.

iamthest1g

underachieved wrote: »

not a garda lover or anything but.......

you were out in the middle of the night driving around a country area you're not local to, in the forcourt of a closed garage with a hundred scratch cards???????

and you wonder why the guard searched you??????

also did you ask him why he was keeping your cert???? he is human???? maybe he thought he gave it back with the rest of your stuff???? would it not be wiser to talk to him directly rather than post about it???

i pay my tax and insurence to be able to go out on a drive as and when i feel like it and to where ever the fancy takes me, not being a local doesnt justify the behaivior on the night.he seen me do a U turn onto the forcourt from the main road, and common sence would seem to say if your after commiting a crime dont hail the law down like a taxi, as for not returning the cert , its been 22 hours since ive been pulled and he hasnt made contact with me via the information on the cert or the details i gave him on the side of the road,yes this man is a human being doing a hard job, but common courtisy would tell him he made the mistake and to endevour to return the item.

iamthest1g

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Do you drive an early model Honda Civic or are "midnight drives" a regular thing?

I have a theory on Gardai and that is most of them are pretty lazy. Now do lazy people go around making work for themselves unless there is a good reason?

That's not really directed at you OP just the general feeling that the Gardai go around stopping bazzilions of people becuase they want to.

PS Are there markers on cars here? In the UK the ANPR will tell a cop if there is a drugs or anti-social behaviour etc. marker on the car.

i plod around in betsy the berlingo van, as for regularity not really im planning to emigrate in the next few weeks and i was having a really good convirsation with my best mate , so i just kept driving.

Indricotherium

iamthest1g wrote: »

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Do you drive an early model Honda Civic or are "midnight drives" a regular thing?

I have a theory on Gardai and that is most of them are pretty lazy. Now do lazy people go around making work for themselves unless there is a good reason?

That's not really directed at you OP just the general feeling that the Gardai go around stopping bazzilions of people becuase they want to.

PS Are there markers on cars here? In the UK the ANPR will tell a cop if there is a drugs or anti-social behaviour etc. marker on the car.

i plod around in betsy the berlingo van, as for regularity not really im planning to emigrate in the next few weeks and i was having a really good convirsation with my best mate , so i just kept driving.

With the price of petrol the way it is?!

Seriously though, a van leaving a closed petrol station and then having 100 scratch cards in it is slightly suspicious.....I don't think you have much of a case for the ombudsman.

Not returning your insurance disk sounds like a simple error to be honest.

BrianD

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Forget it and move on imho but then I you'll find I normally side with the Gardai. If I had a bad day at work it might because a customer had been rude to me and I might be a bit off hand with a co-worker.

If a Gardai has had a bad day it's probably because he's dealt with someone smacking there partner around, a rape or worse. Therefore I tend to cut them a bit of slack. My attitude with stop and searches is - if you have nothing to hide and it's not down to the reason of belonging to an ethnic minority - whats the harm?

Incidently I might very well take the hump a little to be flaged down and used as a map. Bobby on the beat is one thing Garda Patrol car is quite another. Come across the same guy on a different day may very well be the nicest guy you've ever met. Well maybe not he is a garda :P Perhaps a trip down to the Station to recover the Disc and a quiet word with the duty Sgt.?

BTW OP these threads never get a "right answer" because the views are so polarised.

Jeez, I find this hard to fathom - you'd support this behaviour. The Garda is supposed to be a professional and, if the OP's report is accurate, has acted disgracefully.

OP I hope you got his number and will make a complaint. Suggest that you do so to his superior and then upwards if you don't get satisfaction.

There's absolutely no grounds for a Garda to seize a valid insurance disc without reason. If he wanted to check it he could radio or phone it in.

Highly unprofessional but that's unfortunately the way our police force acts.

iamthest1g

Indricotherium wrote: »

With the price of petrol the way it is?!

Seriously though, a van leaving a closed petrol station and then having 100 scratch cards in it is slightly suspicious.....I don't think you have much of a case for the ombudsman.

Not returning your insurance disk sounds like a simple error to be honest.

i only realised that after the first 30 quids worth of diesel was gone up in smoke :D as for leaving a closed petrol station, he seen me pull in off the road to turn around, and unless im super thief it just isnt possable for me to rob, scratch, sort and leave in less than 10 seconds.he knew this, there isnt really any possable angle where you could doubt that he could doubt i was telling the truth, its just impossable for me to have done what he was insinuating.

charlemont

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

No Chalemont I wouldn't to be honest - I'd head down the station the next day and have a quiet word.

There's not a chance we'll agree on this tread and you and I both know it!

We can agree on that..:)

fasttalkerchat

Are you sure it was a guard???
That's mental!

underachieved

with respect op i never said you didnt pay your tax or insurance and its not my job to check, its the guards?????? such as that guard. and how do you know what he saw???? a van (not local) u turning in a closed petrol station with two people in it that late might be worth checking from his point of view.

not saying u were doing anything wrong but checking you out is probably what he sould be doing in my opinion.

also werent you told he wasnt working???? could this be the reason he hasnt contacted you??? shouldnt you try ringing him when hes working??? you obviously have his name as you previously checked or are you hoping he'll read it on boards???

Common sense should tell you the garage is private property

fasttalkerchat

Milena Dry Walkway wrote: »

Well if it was me i'd pay the few shillings to make a police property application for my disc. Cost a few quid but at least he would have to explain his antics.

What's this??

fasttalkerchat

Milena Dry Walkway wrote: »

This is not legal advice but when property ends up in the possession of the gardai for various reasons sometimes, sometimes one of these is needed to get it back. Think they are about €350? A solicitor does it for you.

350 euros is a lot to pay for what you can get for free!

I thought you were saying there was something you could do to make it your property so that they couldn't take it in future.

Zambia

Why does a solicitor need to do this can you not just ask for the certificate back?

Procrastastudy

Really?

A van driving around at midnight with two lads in it and around 100 scratch cards outside a petrol station.

The propensity for people to always take the attitude that someone is being "rude" when they are being questioned.

A garda that has, most likely, accidentally kept a document he should have given back to the OP.

I wish you guys were in charge of the Gardai because then I could just become a burgler.

zenno

Ring the station and ask for the superintendent, if he/she is not there ask when the super will be there and leave name . Don't deal with any other garda just deal with the superintendent and explain what happened as the taking of your disc is unacceptable and you want answers to why this garda took it. Don't take any crap but deal with the top not the bottom. And don't be fobbed off over this.

Zambia

Milena Dry Walkway wrote: »

Of course you can ask. I should have put the "sometimes" in bold.

Now I get you if it was a piece of evidence maybe. So in this case I imagine not.

ScouseMouse

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Forget it and move on imho but then I you'll find I normally side with the Gardai. If I had a bad day at work it might because a customer had been rude to me and I might be a bit off hand with a co-worker.

If a Gardai has had a bad day it's probably because he's dealt with someone smacking there partner around, a rape or worse. Therefore I tend to cut them a bit of slack. My attitude with stop and searches is - if you have nothing to hide and it's not down to the reason of belonging to an ethnic minority - whats the harm?

QUOTE]

Have to agree with you there. I gave a garda loads as I had a violent shoplifter and they took an hour to arrive. I was really frazzled. The second guard politely asked me to cut them some slack, they had just been to a family to tell them their son had been killed

Kind of put it into perspective.

MagicSean

If the Garda thinks the document might be false he can indeed seize it to check its authenticity.

comeback_kid

usernamegoes wrote: »

I'd disagree with you here.

The police have a very difficult job; most deal with it properly. If there is an issue then professional help should be provided.

If you acted badly towards a member of the public in most private jobs there would consequences. However the problems are worse with the police inasmuch as they have huge amounts of power.

If I was in a shop and someone working there spoke to me rudely or did something on me I didn't like, I'd tell them to take a hike and walk off. You can't do this with the police. Not least because I am sure then you'd be charged with a criminal offence.

As for the 'nothing to hide view' I am not a big believer in that. Would you put any limits on it? Would you allow them install a listening device in your home?

Just my view.

telling a guard where to go is not a criminal offence but the OP has no big case for complaint here , he will get his disc back but that is all

comeback_kid

BrianD wrote: »

Jeez, I find this hard to fathom - you'd support this behaviour. The Garda is supposed to be a professional and, if the OP's report is accurate, has acted disgracefully.

OP I hope you got his number and will make a complaint. Suggest that you do so to his superior and then upwards if you don't get satisfaction.

There's absolutely no grounds for a Garda to seize a valid insurance disc without reason. If he wanted to check it he could radio or phone it in.

Highly unprofessional but that's unfortunately the way our police force acts.

people in this country are incredibly deferential when it comes to the police , they appear to make any amount of allowances for rude obnoxious behaviour , they are public servants at the end of the day and paid for by the tax payer , a little respect is not too much to ask for

comeback_kid

superscouse wrote: »

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Forget it and move on imho but then I you'll find I normally side with the Gardai. If I had a bad day at work it might because a customer had been rude to me and I might be a bit off hand with a co-worker.

If a Gardai has had a bad day it's probably because he's dealt with someone smacking there partner around, a rape or worse. Therefore I tend to cut them a bit of slack. My attitude with stop and searches is - if you have nothing to hide and it's not down to the reason of belonging to an ethnic minority - whats the harm?

QUOTE]

Have to agree with you there. I gave a garda loads as I had a violent shoplifter and they took an hour to arrive. I was really frazzled. The second guard politely asked me to cut them some slack, they had just been to a family to tell them their son had been killed

Kind of put it into perspective.

bringing up the visit to the dead mans family was tacky and unprofessional

BaronVon

iamthest1g wrote: »

and on this point, this is the 5 time ive been stopped and 2nd for search in 5 months, could there be a reason for me constantly being stopped.?

Could your user handle be a reason for this?

fasttalkerchat

Stop and search is different to them stopping a car IMO. I think everyone should refuse to being searched because that is a huge invasion of privacy and shouldn't be allowed to become common practice.

usernamegoes

comeback_kid wrote: »

telling a guard where to go is not a criminal offence

You're right, but you can imagine how things would proceed in a situation where you were spoken to rudely by a police officer and decided to walk off.

In most other interactions in our lives this is how we would respond.

BrianD

MagicSean wrote: »

If the Garda thinks the document might be false he can indeed seize it to check its authenticity.

Of course he can but he needs to state that reason to the holder of the document.

comeback_kid

usernamegoes wrote: »

You're right, but you can imagine how things would proceed in a situation where you were spoken to rudely by a police officer and decided to walk off.

In most other interactions in our lives this is how we would respond.

you might place guards on a pedestal but i certainly dont

cursai

Bash bash bash.......exaggeration.....bash bash.........false anecdotes........I remember a time when something ridiculous happened.........pigs.....bash bash......Garda stole my respect in democracy........bash bash.........Gardai have a political agenda....bash...bash...boom........i think the law works exactly as i interpret it.......bash bash......and I have friends who are guards who told me........GOD!!!!!!!!!

comeback_kid

cursai wrote: »

Bash bash bash.......exaggeration.....bash bash.........false anecdotes........I remember a time when something ridiculous happened.........pigs.....bash bash......Garda stole my respect in democracy........bash bash.........Gardai have apolitical agenda....bash...bash...boom........i think the law would exactly as interpreted.....bash bash......and I have friends who are guards who told me........GOD!!!!!!!!!

you should see a doctor about that , diarrhea can become dangerous

cursai

comeback_kid wrote: »

you might place guards on a pedestal but i certainly dont

Go on tell us. What's your big bad personal experience with the SS SIOCHANA.

comeback_kid

cursai wrote: »

Go on tell us. What's your big bad personal experience with the SS SIOCHANA.

its not relevant to this thread and im certainly not going to waste time trying to appeal to someone as one eyed as you


the recent revelations re_ church sex abuse should be enough proof for anyone of the kind of politically motivated outfit they are , they knew kids were being raped and done nothing

MagicSean

BrianD wrote: »

Of course he can but he needs to state that reason to the holder of the document.

No he doesn't. He should, but it's not a requirement.

longhalloween

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

My attitude with stop and searches is - if you have nothing to hide and it's not down to the reason of belonging to an ethnic minority - whats the harm?

Be very wary of people who say things like this. A garda searching your car over a stack of scratch cards isn't good practice and regardless of what he had to deal with during the day he should be on his best behaviour at all times.

BaronVon

comeback_kid wrote: »

its not relevant to this thread and im certainly not going to waste time trying to appeal to someone as one eyed as you


the recent revelations re_ church sex abuse should be enough proof for anyone of the kind of politically motivated outfit they are , they knew kids were being raped and done nothing

I think that was more of a general society issue....

cursai

comeback_kid wrote: »

its not relevant to this thread and im certainly not going to waste time trying to appeal to someone as one eyed as you


the recent revelations re_ church sex abuse should be enough proof for anyone of the kind of politically motivated outfit they are , they knew kids were being raped and done nothing

Is that same guard working today. He really gets around. Terrorising everyone in Ireland.

cursai

comeback_kid wrote: »

its not relevant to this thread and im certainly not going to waste time trying to appeal to someone as one eyed as you


the recent revelations re_ church sex abuse should be enough proof for anyone of the kind of politically motivated outfit they are , they knew kids were being raped and done nothing

By the way Cyclops' died out thousands of years ago. I actually have two eyes thankfully. Great comeback nonetheless kid.

comeback_kid

infacteh wrote: »

I think that was more of a general society issue....

oh i fully accept that society in general knew very well what was going on but guards are an integral part of the establishment aparatus , thier descision to do nothing was political

comeback_kid

cursai wrote: »

By the way Cyclops' died out thousands of years ago. I actually have two eyes thankfully. Great comeback nonetheless kid.

one eyed means being blind to other views apart from your own narrow fixed outlook

cursai

comeback_kid wrote: »

one eyed means being blind to other views apart from your own narrow fixed outlook

Try narrow minded or close minded. This is what happens when you use your smart phone to go on boards.ie during class.