*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2013*

mocker2012

no

Slow Show

Bizarre, I wanted that sections weighting change so badly this year as I always felt great at 1 and 2 but by some stroke of good luck my 3 was the one that ensured a good result! Still though, all in all, I wouldn't be sure at all of my luck continuing a second time so I think this does bode well for next year if I have to go back and give it another go!

The change in currency of results is, probably positively, gonna affect the points as well. I mean one of the big things affecting it I imagine at the moment is that if the points reduced in the HPAT rather than increasing a stream of applicants from previous years could sneak in on lower HPAT points, if this makes sense to anyone, but if the currency changes I imagine the points can do anything really, even decrease!

Laura229

"It will still be open to aspiring doctors to repeat both the Leaving Cert and HPAT, but they would have to do both tests in the same year to be eligible." -katherine Donnelly said about changes in the Independent, i presume she has this wrong?

Hermione Granger

Just sorting out my CAO now . .

Have 745 which puts me in with a good chance but not a guaranteed place in NUIG. . .

What are the rest of you guys putting down as no. 6 (presumably after medicine 5 times ?)

mocker2012

Hermione Granger wrote: »

Just sorting out my CAO now . .

Have 745 which puts me in with a good chance but not a guaranteed place in NUIG. . .

What are the rest of you guys putting down as no. 6 (presumably after medicine 5 times ?)

After med, pharmacy, engineering

SupDoc

Ag. Science should not be counted as a subject for points for med. tbh I don't think it should even be a LC subject. >.< and if you have internet access and attend school 5 days a week then you are not disadvantaged and do not deserve to have reduced points or points added onto your score >.< Grants are great because they create opportunities for people who are good enough but nobody deserves extra points because of the financial standing of their family >.< I think almost everyone on this forum understands the amount of work and effort needed to get the LC points to study med. and the frustration of watching some assh@le get 60 points added onto his LC because of his address >.<

spurious

SupDoc wrote: »

Ag. Science should not be counted as a subject for points for med. tbh I don't think it should even be a LC subject. >.< and if you have internet access and attend school 5 days a week then you are not disadvantaged and do not deserve to have reduced points or points added onto your score >.< Grants are great because they create opportunities for people who are good enough but nobody deserves extra points because of the financial standing of their family >.< I think almost everyone on this forum understands the amount of work and effort needed to get the LC points to study med. and the frustration of watching some assh@le get 60 points added onto his LC because of his address >.<

Thanks for the rant.
HEAR applicants do not affect the number of places for medicine.

SupDoc

I don't care if they do not affect the number of applicants. They still do not deserve extra points. Nobody deserves extra points. It's unfair if someones social standing and address gives them extra points considering the resources which are available for every student today. To be fair all past exam papers and marking schemes are online and there is always somewhere to access the internet for free. I know some students and schools have better facilities than others, mainly those in Dublin and other cities but that does not mean any applicant should get extra points for doing absolutely nothing other than living in a rural area and having parents who do not work. I know the facilities are not wonderful in rural Ireland compared to other places, I live in rural Ireland but that does not mean anyone is entitled to extra points. Even if you are from a poor part of a city, if you are dedicated enough you will go to the library, study, access internet and achieve. It is unfair that some students receive extra points.

Hamza Malik

So medicine is out of the picture for me now. I know its pretty late asking but anybody know any good courses (without third languages) in science or business that offer a career that's in demand?

Ik im being vague but it would really help. Courses of around 500 points.

Thanks!

partyatmygaff

SupDoc wrote: »

I don't care if they do not affect the number of applicants. They still do not deserve extra points. Nobody deserves extra points. It's unfair if someones social standing and address gives them extra points considering the resources which are available for every student today. To be fair all past exam papers and marking schemes are online and there is always somewhere to access the internet for free. I know some students and schools have better facilities than others, mainly those in Dublin and other cities but that does not mean any applicant should get extra points for doing absolutely nothing other than living in a rural area and having parents who do not work. I know the facilities are not wonderful in rural Ireland compared to other places, I live in rural Ireland but that does not mean anyone is entitled to extra points. Even if you are from a poor part of a city, if you are dedicated enough you will go to the library, study, access internet and achieve. It is unfair that some students receive extra points.

How is it unfair?

Extra points aren't given nor are any taken away from the normal cutoff published for the course. You'd do better to know what you're talking about before having a rant. All HEAR does is pool like candidates together in an attempt to even out the differences in quality of services and facilities around the country. Someone from a middle class family in suburban Dublin will have far more (and probably far better) facilities than someone living on a small farm in the middle of nowhere.

Those who live in a disadvantaged area (or meet similar criteria) compete with one other and all the other applicants compete with one other in two separate groups. Trying to even out the playing field is the very definition of fair in my book.

ahmdoda

Hamza Malik wrote: »

So medicine is out of the picture for me now. I know its pretty late asking but anybody know any good courses (without third languages) in science or business that offer a career that's in demand?

Ik im being vague but it would really help. Courses of around 500 points.

Thanks!

im thinking of human health and diseases

ahmdoda

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How is it unfair?

Extra points aren't given nor are any taken away from the normal cutoff published for the course. You'd do better to know what you're talking about before having a rant. All HEAR does is pool like candidates together in an attempt to even out the differences in quality of services and facilities around the country. Someone from a middle class family in suburban Dublin will have far more (and probably far better) facilities than someone living on a small farm in the middle of nowhere.

Those who live in a disadvantaged area (or meet similar criteria) compete with one other and all the other applicants compete with one other in two separate groups. Trying to even out the playing field is the very definition of fair in my book.

im not sure what you ment but a friend of main got 420 in his lc last year and got into a course requiring 480 because of the hear scheme

ahmdoda

ahmdoda wrote: »

im not sure what you ment but a friend of main got 420 in his lc last year and got into a course requiring 480 because of the hear scheme

He means that this 'rant' has absolutely no standing. Nobody misses out on their place in college due to the HEAR scheme. If a course has 40 places, it really has ~42 to facilitate for extra people getting in on HEAR.
And why shouldn't people get help? Studies prove that if your parents didn't go to college then you are less likely too. And that's not a bad thing. Parents didn't need college in their day like we do now. I for one am glad for the HEAR scheme because I was never able to get any help in any subject throughout the year but my friends were all getting grinds cause they lived in a better area. How is that fair?
I wasn't able to go for Medicine because my family didnt have the money for me to sit the HPAT. How is that fair? I work just as hard as anyone else. And because of my "address" you want me to lose out on college?

SupDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

He means that this 'rant' has absolutely no standing. Nobody misses out on their place in college due to the HEAR scheme. If a course has 40 places, it really has ~42 to facilitate for extra people getting in on HEAR.
And why shouldn't people get help? Studies prove that if your parents didn't go to college then you are less likely too. And that's not a bad thing. Parents didn't need college in their day like we do now. I for one am glad for the HEAR scheme because I was never able to get any help in any subject throughout the year but my friends were all getting grinds cause they lived in a better area. How is that fair?
I wasn't able to go for Medicine because my family didnt have the money for me to sit the HPAT. How is that fair? I work just as hard as anyone else. And because of my "address" you want me to lose out on college?

Yes I want you to lose out in a college place if you do not get the required points and need some bullsh@t scheme to get you in. Grinds? If you were good enough you would not need those. If you have a text book or internet access that is more than enough. If you were really disadvantaged you would not be on boards because you would not have access to an internet connection and a device to type out that rubbish above. You can't afford to do the hpat? Hpat reg. is 115 euro. The hpat reg. is more than 30 weeks, save 5 euro for 23 weeks and then you can afford or 10 euro for 11.5 weeks. Grow up, work harder and stop blaming everyone else for not succeeding and looking for handouts.

Just Like Heaven

Keep it civil. It's fine to discuss the HEAR scheme but slagging other posters directly won't be tolerated.

SupDoc

SupDoc

SupDoc wrote: »

Yes I want you to lose out in a college place if you do not get the required points and need some bullsh@t scheme to get you in. Grinds? If you were good enough you would not need those. If you have a text book or internet access that is more than enough. If you were really disadvantaged you would not be on boards because you would not have access to an internet connection and a device to type out that rubbish above. You can't afford to do the hpat? Hpat reg. is 115 euro. The hpat reg. is more than 30 weeks, save 5 euro for 23 weeks and then you can afford or 10 euro for 11.5 weeks. Grow up, work harder and stop blaming everyone else for not succeeding and looking for handouts.

I will get my required points thank you very much because I did work hard. I'm not trying to say I'm a victim but it's nice to know that I can afford to lose a little bit and still get in.
As I said, HEAR places don't mean anyone else is losing out so why should it bother you?
Save? In a one parent household with three children that my dad didn't support for years? That's funny. Especially in a year as expensive as 6th year.
A lot of people go to college by the HEAR scheme and it's not just.thanks to these "extra" points.

randylonghorn

SupDoc wrote: »

Grinds? If you were good enough you would not need those.

In a way, I agree, I'm not a fan of the grinds culture which has grown up in this country over the last decade.

But surely your observation is equally true for those who do have the money to afford grinds?

Surely if they were good enough, they would not need them either?

But they go and do them anyway, and garner an extra advantage by doing so which renders the playing-field even less equal than it already is.

A question for you, if you have the courage of your convictions to answer it honestly ... have you ever had grinds in any subjects?

QueenOfLeon

SupDoc wrote: »

Yes I want you to lose out in a college place if you do not get the required points and need some bullsh@t scheme to get you in. Grinds? If you were good enough you would not need those. If you have a text book or internet access that is more than enough. If you were really disadvantaged you would not be on boards because you would not have access to an internet connection and a device to type out that rubbish above. You can't afford to do the hpat? Hpat reg. is 115 euro. The hpat reg. is more than 30 weeks, save 5 euro for 23 weeks and then you can afford or 10 euro for 11.5 weeks. Grow up, work harder and stop blaming everyone else for not succeeding and looking for handouts.

College is going to be difficult for you with that level of maturity...

Whatever way you want to break it down, €115 (plus transport to the centre, maybe having to take time off work to get there, buying any practice materials) is a lot of money that sadly isn't affordable for a lot of families at the minute. Unfortunately some people have their head in the sand about other people's financial situation.

Anyway, I know from people who've got in through the HEAR system that they didn't even need the points reduction, the financial benefits of the HEAR scheme that allow them to actually stay in college for 5-6 years is far more valuable to them.

SupDoc

randylonghorn wrote: »

In a way, I agree, I'm not a fan of the grinds culture which has grown up in this country over the last decade.

But surely your observation is equally true for those who do have the money to afford grinds?

Surely if they were good enough, they would not need them either?

But they go and do them anyway, and garner an extra advantage by doing so which renders the playing-field even less equal than it already is.

A question for you, if you have the courage of your convictions to answer it honestly ... have you ever had grinds in any subjects?

Nope, I never had a grind. I even did an extra subject outside of school without grinds. I am not saying it was easy. It was hard work but I was determined and dedicated. The playing field is tilted too far the other way though when people have a point reduction of 60 points.

SupDoc

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

College is going to be difficult for you with that level of maturity...

Whatever way you want to break it down, €115 (plus transport to the centre, maybe having to take time off work to get there, buying any practice materials) is a lot of money that sadly isn't affordable for a lot of families at the minute. Unfortunately some people have their head in the sand about other people's financial situation.

Anyway, I know from people who've got in through the HEAR system that they didn't even need the points reduction, the financial benefits of the HEAR scheme that allow them to actually stay in college for 5-6 years is far more valuable to them.

I completely support grants and financial support, I stated that earlier.

partyatmygaff

SupDoc wrote: »

Nope, I never had a grind. I even did an extra subject outside of school without grinds. I am not saying it was easy. It was hard work but I was determined and dedicated. The playing field is tilted too far the other way though when people have a point reduction of 60 points.

It's not a points reduction.

Theoretically, the points for both groups could be the exact same. It all depends on the quality of candidates.

SupDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

I will get my required points thank you very much because I did work hard. I'm not trying to say I'm a victim but it's nice to know that I can afford to lose a little bit and still get in.
As I said, HEAR places don't mean anyone else is losing out so why should it bother you?
Save? In a one parent household with three children that my dad didn't support for years? That's funny. Especially in a year as expensive as 6th year.
A lot of people go to college by the HEAR scheme and it's not just.thanks to these "extra" points.

I bet it is a really nice feeling sitting in that exam hall knowing you can afford to lose a few points especially while someone like me is sitting beside you and if I make one mistake and lose an A1 or an A2 then my university course is gone. If you can get your required points then have the courage to do it without a safety net. You have to understand how difficult it is for someone to sit in the same class as you for example in dentistry who got 590 points in their LC and you with 530 points. What about the guy then who got 585? He missed the course by 5 points!!! Is he not more suitable for this course than you? He has more points than you? The playing field might be unfair but he does know more about his LC subjects than you.

SupDoc

partyatmygaff wrote: »

It's not a points reduction.

Theoretically, the points for both groups could be the exact same. It all depends on the quality of candidates.

To be fair it is a point reduction.
It is either the minimum amount of points needed for all candidates or less. I know theoretically they could be the same but we both know that will never happen.

SupDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

I will get my required points thank you very much because I did work hard. I'm not trying to say I'm a victim but it's nice to know that I can afford to lose a little bit and still get in.
As I said, HEAR places don't mean anyone else is losing out so why should it bother you?
Save? In a one parent household with three children that my dad didn't support for years? That's funny. Especially in a year as expensive as 6th year.
A lot of people go to college by the HEAR scheme and it's not just.thanks to these "extra" points.

Do you not think this is discrimination? When two sets of people trying to achieve the same outcome have different rules governing their attempts?

partyatmygaff

SupDoc wrote: »

He missed the course by 5 points!!! Is he not more suitable for this course than you? He has more points than you? The playing field might be unfair but he does know more about his LC subjects than you.

How well someone knows their LC subjects has next-to-no bearing on how suitable they'll be for any college course.

Using dentistry as an example, if you did well in Biology and Chemistry that's all that really matters. How well you did in French, English, Maths, Irish or whatever else isn't relevant past getting an offer.

SupDoc wrote: »

To be fair know it is a point reduction.
It is either the minimum amount of points needed for all candidates or less. I know theoretically they could be the same but we both know that will never happen.

You talk as if someone actually sets the points for courses and then takes some off for HEAR.

If you don't mind, explain how you think the system works for normal and HEAR applicants in the CAO.

SupDoc

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You talk as if someone actually sets the points for courses and then takes some off for HEAR.

If you don't mind, explain how you think the system works for normal and HEAR applicants in the CAO.

That's not what I'm saying but I can see why you might think I mean that. What I am saying is HEAR=LESS POINTS NEEDED!!!

SupDoc

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How well someone knows their LC subjects has next-to-no bearing on how suitable they'll be for any college course.

Using dentistry as an example, if you did well in Biology and Chemistry that's all that really matters. How well you did in French, English, Maths, Irish or whatever else isn't relevant past getting an offer.
.

It is a lot more difficult to do well in Biology and Chemistry when you also have to do really well French, English, Irish, Maths and others. The distribution of the study time should at least make the flaw in your logic painfully obvious

partyatmygaff

SupDoc wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying but I can see why you might think I mean that. What I am saying is HEAR=LESS POINTS NEEDED!!!

That's the ultimate effect but how is it achieved?

SupDoc wrote: »

It is a lot more difficult to do well in Biology and Chemistry when you also have to do really well French, English, Irish, Maths and others. The distribution of the study time should at least make the flaw in your logic painfully obvious

Given this reply, i'm not sure you got the point at all.

You claimed that someone having 590 points is better suited to dentistry than someone with only 530 points. That's far from the case. It's how well they do in relevant subjects that'll determine whether or not they'll be well-suited to the course, not how well they do in their other irrelevant subjects.

As for it being difficult to do well in biology and chemistry when you have four others to do well in... You have two years to cover the LC, which is more than enough time to reach your full potential in at least six subjects.

conradmurph

Well that escalated quickly :P