*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2013*

SDCards

Congratulations to everyone who made it

And the rest of you, if you really want it and your LC/HPAT was just not quite there, repeat! It's much, much cheaper than the GEM route and I for one wish I had done that when I had the chance. Would've saved me 4 years of torture in Genetics but then I wouldn't have met my future fiancé if I hadn't done it

All the very best guys and chin up! This was my 5th time trying in Ireland and I decided to look abroad. Warsaw is awaiting my arrival shortly now 4 years, and I'll be back to compete with the GEM grads

0mega

Congrats all.

Kafka11

RCSI accepted. Congratulations to anyone who got their place this morning.

Eurovisionmad

Just accepted my UCC offer, that was so nerve wracking last night as the numbers were leaking, I was at a house party and everyone was just sitting around the laptop waiting for it to refresh to see what the points were going to be! Delighted that I've got it now though

Glee_GG

34583457 wrote: »

Anybody considering not doing pre-med?

Don't be stressing I'm not doing it and I know a few other people who are going as well and if there offered there going for the 5 year.

woopah92

I'm not giving up hope yet! 1 point off med in Galway and I'm going to view the scripts on 5 of them to see if I can get an A1 in any of them :P

outnumbered

Good luck everybody!!!
I got Human health and disease which I am going to take and then do grad med. I don't think anyone can deny that I worked my ass off this year so repeating is more than likely pointless! Hopefully I will be a Doctor one day too!

polydactyl

Before you do that just remember while you may think its just a year in the difference you will have to do the GAMSATs which are very difficult and pay full fees of approx 15,000 a year each year to do Grad Med. That's after already probably racking up some degree of loans in college.That means qualifying owing prob 100,000 instead of maybe 3000 as an undergrad. I worked very hard for my first leaving and worked very hard again for my repeat and went up 90 points. Now that was years ago but still. Personally I think aiming for Grad med at this stage for the sake of a year will put you under huge additional financial pressure in the future and if you are set on medicine already then repeating is a much more sensible option. I say this as a doc and a tutor to medical students.

etymon

Just so everyone knows, as a final med in Graduate Medicine, many of the loan facilities that were given to us when we started have now been withdrawn to new incoming students. I am pretty sure all that is given now is a secured loan with guarantor for fees only - i.e. you will need parents to sign for it and still need to come up with around 10k per year to live on (frugally) yourself. So, sadly, it's not as easy a reality as it was when I entered (and I am still saddled with 100k debt). It's a great option for people like me who never did sciences and who had an unrelated previous degree but if you think of it as an easy 'back door' , you're wrong. A year goes by VERY fast, especially at 18. Repeat the LC and HPAT rather than rely on grad med, is my advice.

sherlook

NUIG woooooo. For anybody who didnt get in dont be disheartened, I declined my 2nd offer last year took a year out got a job and studied for the hpat. I saved a good bit of money for college this year and I managed to do well enough in the hpat. I was terrified thinking about how long the year would be but it flew and I got so much valuable experience working. Whats meant for you wont pass you if you want it that bad a year wont make a difference.

Hypnos

etymon wrote: »

Just so everyone knows, as a final med in Graduate Medicine, many of the loan facilities that were given to us when we started have now been withdrawn to new incoming students. I am pretty sure all that is given now is a secured loan with guarantor for fees only - i.e. you will need parents to sign for it and still need to come up with around 10k per year to live on (frugally) yourself. So, sadly, it's not as easy a reality as it was when I entered (and I am still saddled with 100k debt). It's a great option for people like me who never did sciences and who had an unrelated previous degree but if you think of it as an easy 'back door' , you're wrong. A year goes by VERY fast, especially at 18. Repeat the LC and HPAT rather than rely on grad med, is my advice.

I disagree with your pessimism and view of the current situation I disagree because I just went through the entire process. Gonna be a first year GradMed student in 3 weeks. The only thing that has changed is that 100K isn't offered anymore.

Its the 60K loan to cover just the fees. You have much less to pay back and unless you're leaving a career and major responsibilities it doesn't make it that bad. Unless you had previous employment you do need a guarantor now. I don't see how that's a terrible thing. It means you take responsibility for taking out a loan and that you can't just move to the states and pretend you never took it out. The only people who had problems paying it back were the ones who took out 100K which is the exact reason why it's not offered anymore (this was the information the banks offered me when I inquired about it). The payments and interest on the 100K loan were proving to be too much.

It can be any close relative (parents preferred). You don't need 10K/yr to live unless you want to move to an apartment by yourself and literally live independently. I survived my whole 4yr undergrad with 12K (no rent included for me).

If you're planning on doing GEM while living at home then it won't be bad. It will however hurt a lot I'm sure if you're older, independent and are leaving a career. The loan should scare anyone if they're certain they want to be a doctor and they'll work hard and won't fail. I'm not even remotely afraid of the loan because I wanted this since I was a young teen and I know I'll give it my all.

My advice would be to not hesitate or have a second thought taking the GradMed route if you can live at home. The average age of a GEM is 25 so I understand that if you're an older student who's graduated and leaving a stable financial life that it can cause problems.

I'd say repeat the LC/HPAT if you were guaranteed you're gonna succeed the second time but no one can guarantee you'll get it after a repeat which is why I decided to go the GEM route. I was well aware that repeating wasn't gonna get me 550+ pts. It could be done, but you never know. One of my secondary school classmates repeated the L.C/HPAT from 2009-2012 and still couldn't get in! A waste of 3 years. She's in trinity doing dentistry now.

My advice is if you have the points and need a better HPAT score; start an undergrad degree in something and just resit the HPAT (know 2 people who got into undergrad med this way), but if you were good on the HPAT and short on the LC (like me) then I'd suggest GEM especially if you didn't like the LC and you don't want to go through it again (I hated the whole leaving cert, despite doing very well in it, I was still short overall).


I know I sound like a GEM preacher here but don't let anyone tell you it's not worth it or it's hard to get by now. If that were true there wouldn't be such big competition on getting into a GEM program. Undergrad med will be phased out in the next 10 years and it will be a graduate program only (like in the states). This was on the radio 6 months ago. Main concern is the maturity level and young age of some undergrad graduating as doctors by the age of 22-24.

GEM is brilliant in the sense that you'd be stupid to go for it if you weren't 100% committed to becoming a doctor and if you lack the passion for it.

etymon

Yeah everything Hypnos says is fair, apart from the 4k a year not bearing out on what my classmates needed to live on, as all of us bar a couple of younger Dubliners live away from home. (I was 25 starting by the way). If you are confident you can get the funds later on, fire away, but if you're a few points off and can improve next year undergrad is a quicker and cheaper way to go. Most of my Irish classmates didn't try for medicine the first time, we come from a great variety of arts and science backgrounds and so grad med was out only option but jaysus if I was 18 now, knew I wanted to do medicine and was thinking of doing a 4 year degree THEN grad med I would definitely repeat instead. It's not pessimism or a lack of desire to 100% wanting to be a doctor but a matter of practicality for those who have just missed out on undergrad medicine today. Hope you enjoy GEM Hypnos! It flies by and it's great craic!

polydactyl

As a previous undergrad with Grad med friends starting and who are qualified and a teacher of undergrad medicine all routes work if all you want to be is a doctor undergrad is the cheapest easiest method if you know after LC you want to medicine without a doubt. As for an all grad med entry system in 10 years I doubt it and hope not. Medicine is exhausting and if everyone is mid thirties or forties qualifying trust me as the one here who has worked it it won't all work as our post grad system is not designed for that unlike the states.

Anyway am done with my advice here on medicine as I have work to do and a college year of students to prepare for. Best of luck to you all. As exhausting stressful and at times dreadful it has been I have never ever regretted doing it for a minute and genuinely love my job.

Hypnos

etymon wrote: »

Yeah everything Hypnos says is fair, apart from the 4k a year not bearing out on what my classmates needed to live on, as all of us bar a couple of younger Dubliners live away from home. (I was 25 starting by the way). If you are confident you can get the funds later on, fire away, but if you're a few points off and can improve next year undergrad is a quicker and cheaper way to go. Most of my Irish classmates didn't try for medicine the first time, we come from a great variety of arts and science backgrounds and so grad med was out only option but jaysus if I was 18 now, knew I wanted to do medicine and was thinking of doing a 4 year degree THEN grad med I would definitely repeat instead. It's not pessimism or a lack of desire to 100% wanting to be a doctor but a matter of practicality for those who have just missed out on undergrad medicine today. Hope you enjoy GEM Hypnos! It flies by and it's great craic!

Yeah I'd say it's brilliant. Starting UCD GEM soon. Ah, my argument with the 4K was strictly those who live within commuting distance to the university and who are living at home... I should have emphasised that more. It costs a lot more otherwise definitely. I'm just saying I survived of that much. I'm 21, going straight from undergrad to GEM. The 60K loan comes out to repayments of 750e/month for 10 yrs. That's not a massive amount of money, especially since the further up the ladder you go in terms of being a doctors, the higher your pay gets, especially at consultant level.

The problem I see with just repeating is, it doesn't always work out like one of my old classmates I was talking about. She got 600pts at her 3rd attempt on the LC but still fell short because of the HPAT. I didn't get in because of the L.C points. I couldn't bare the thought of repeating the L.C and by some off chance not getting the L.C points again. That would just kill me so I committed to the GEM route a long time ago (when I was 17).

Enjoy being a doctor I'll catch up eventually! Ill be 25 on completion.

Hypnos

polydactyl wrote: »

As for an all grad med entry system in 10 years I doubt it and hope not.

Hope away but even the Dean of Medicine in UCD in 2010 on a GEM open day which I attended was talking about it being phased out in the future by whichever organisation decides on those matters (don't know who decides those things). The reasons I gave for it being phased out were his verbatim. It was the better response and enthusiasm they got from GEM's. He said they were more committed and were better students in general. Take it for what it's worth, I'm not making this up and I have nothing against undergrad med (was planning on it myself). I'm not for abolishing it. It's not 100% certain it will be removed but its on the table so to say. They are considering a system like in the states where you need a degree beforehand and how to implement it. I never heard it outside a casual mention on the radio in the car and from the Dean of Medicine in UCD in 2010 but there you go.

polydactyl

I know its not from you and I am not against GEM. As I said I teach students and the current mix is fantastic the GEMs settle the undergrads and the undergrads make sure the GEMs have fun too. The different student types also cause different types of problems. Also of course they want all grad med entry why wouldn't they when that would mean everyone pays them 15000 a year I and most of my colleagues will continue to hope its not all GEM as I said the mixture is great for everyone. Enjoy med and your expanding vocab which we were told increases by approx 3000 words by graduation

Hypnos

polydactyl wrote: »

I know its not from you and I am not against GEM. As I said I teach students and the current mix is fantastic the GEMs settle the undergrads and the undergrads make sure the GEMs have fun too. The different student types also cause different types of problems. Also of course they want all grad med entry why wouldn't they when that would mean everyone pays them 15000 a year I and most of my colleagues will continue to hope its not all GEM as I said the mixture is great for everyone. Enjoy med and your expanding vocab which we were told increases by approx 3000 words by graduation

Yeah I forgot to mention the financial incentive. :P Yeah the uni's love the GEM fees I'm sure. 77 EU places (4.62 million) + 20 or so internationals who pay triple the 15K which results in quite a sum (3.5 million) :eek:. Gives UCD 8 million euro worth of fees in 4 years or 2 million every year. Quite the cash flow. :pac::pac::pac: I'd say the universities supports GEM implementation all the way :P

Not to mention the HEA aren't very keen on continuing their support for the 'free fees' (if you can call it that). They're already planning on implementing loan schemes with the banks for undergrads because they want to remove the free fees over time. I'm sure that's not major news to anyone. It won't even be cheap for undergrads in the near future :S . I can't comment much on the student mix because I'm just starting obviously But I'm sure I'll see for myself.

3000 words? Look forward to it. Neat little fact!

partyatmygaff

A very difficult (but not impossible) alternative to a massive loan is to do a degree in TCD and get schols, no fees and free accomodation if you continue on to graduate medicine (although i'd think it'd be wiser to do a P.hD or something but that's not for everybody).

polydactyl

What you refer to as left and right when describing things will also change you'll see in a few years best of luck!

JackB93

Is it true that there's a new rule coming in where your HPAT has to be from the same year you're starting Med/ it's no longer possible to just repeat the leaving and carry your HPAT points through? If so where is that information coming from? And dang

Hypnos

JackB93 wrote: »

Is it true that there's a new rule coming in where your HPAT has to be from the same year you're starting Med/ it's no longer possible to just repeat the leaving and carry your HPAT points through? If so where is that information coming from? And dang

Yeah it's true unfortunately. Just heard about it the other day myself. Don't get why. It will make the process of repeating even more daunting. Quite unfair.

JackB93

Thanks for the reply. I guess they think it gives people an unfair adavantage or maybe they didn't feel like the HPAT was the same level of difficulty every year. God that's annoying though

nogivingup

Hypnos wrote: »

Yeah it's true unfortunately. Just heard about it the other day myself. Don't get why. It will make the process of repeating even more daunting. Quite unfair.

The alternative, just repeating the HPAT, is very unfair on first time applicants.

nogivingup

partyatmygaff wrote: »

A very difficult (but not impossible) alternative to a massive loan is to do a degree in TCD and get schols, no fees and free accomodation if you continue on to graduate medicine (although i'd think it'd be wiser to do a P.hD or something but that's not for everybody).

Aren't you in Pharmacy?

Just Like Heaven

nogivingup wrote: »

The alternative, just repeating the HPAT, is very unfair on first time applicants.

Well, it's unfair on everybody really, cause the people repeating don't want to have to be sitting it for the second and third time either.

thekop55

How are you's doing lads, I was just wondering if any of you's know, realistically how difficult is the HPAT exam, and what would you's be expecting to get on it?

partyatmygaff

nogivingup wrote: »

Aren't you in Pharmacy?

Didn't you ask me this same question a month ago? Yeah I am.

KildareKing

thekop55 wrote: »

How are you's doing lads, I was just wondering if any of you's know, realistically how difficult is the HPAT exam, and what would you's be expecting to get on it?

its not difficult, its frustrating, the ones who can keep their composure and focus and work consistently through the exam are the ones that get good results in my opinion. Do the M ed en try course it would give you confidence and will help you spot difficult questions quickly and show strategies on how to approach them.

thekop55

KildareKing wrote: »

its not difficult, its frustrating, the ones who can keep their composure and focus and work consistently through the exam are the ones that get good results in my opinion. Do the M ed en try course it would give you confidence and will help you spot difficult questions quickly and show strategies on how to approach them.

Thanks mate.

sherlook

JackB93 wrote: »

Is it true that there's a new rule coming in where your HPAT has to be from the same year you're starting Med/ it's no longer possible to just repeat the leaving and carry your HPAT points through? If so where is that information coming from? And dang

Its not true you can repeat the hpat as usual. Friend of mines mothe rang the hpat head office to find out they said it was a rumour.