EU Treaty Rights

CommanderC

Hi There,

I have read other threads on this but I am having difficulty with the details and I was wondering whether anyone could help.

I am from New Zealand. Have been living here with my Irish partner (de facto) for the last year.

I want to apply for an Stamp 4 EU Fam residence card. I saw the below details on the INIS website:


( From the perspective of my Irish partner)

Q.8 I am an Irish National. Can my non EEA family members apply for EU Treaty Rights?

A The Directive applies to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members who accompany or join them. (Article 3 of Directive 2004/38/EC)
If, as an Irish national, you have exercised your EU Treaty Rights in another Member State with your family member and have now returned to Ireland you may apply.

Evidence of having exercised your EU Treaty Rights in the other Member State in respect of you and your family member must be submitted with the application along with all other relevant documentation.

Does this mean that I could apply for this card if we had 'moved' in another member state ?

Does 'moved' mean to travel around ? As in, its not necessary to have resided in another EU state.

But in order to 'move around' the EU, as a NZlander, wouldn't I already need to have a Stamp 4 EU fam ?

If some 1 could assist me in making any sense of this, I would be so so grateful.

Thanks.

ResearchWill

CommanderC wrote: »

Hi There,

I have read other threads on this but I am having difficulty with the details and I was wondering whether anyone could help.

I am from New Zealand. Have been living here with my Irish partner (de facto) for the last year.

I want to apply for an Stamp 4 EU Fam residence card. I saw the below details on the INIS website:


( From the perspective of my Irish partner)

Q.8 I am an Irish National. Can my non EEA family members apply for EU Treaty Rights?

A The Directive applies to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members who accompany or join them. (Article 3 of Directive 2004/38/EC)
If, as an Irish national, you have exercised your EU Treaty Rights in another Member State with your family member and have now returned to Ireland you may apply.

Evidence of having exercised your EU Treaty Rights in the other Member State in respect of you and your family member must be submitted with the application along with all other relevant documentation.

Does this mean that I could apply for this card if we had 'moved' in another member state ?

Does 'moved' mean to travel around ? As in, its not necessary to have resided in another EU state.

But in order to 'move around' the EU, as a NZlander, wouldn't I already need to have a Stamp 4 EU fam ?

If some 1 could assist me in making any sense of this, I would be so so grateful.

Thanks.

Your wife is not covered by the Directive unless she moves to another EU country. There was a recent ECJ decision where a dual citizen in the UK born in UK but of Irish parents, the person claimed that the directive applied to her even though she never left the UK, the ECJ said nope she was not exercising treaty rights and therefore her partner was not entitled to the rights contained in the directive.

So yes you can apply for such a permission if ye moved to say the UK. There is a question about your right to travel within the EU once EUFam 4 is granted. My own view of the directive is that once you are with or going to partner then you can enter just on your EUFam 4 and passport. If on the other hand you are going on holidays by yourself to a EU country you more than likely are still a visa required national.

CommanderC

Hey- thanks for your reply.

Just regarding what you were saying about going to the UK.

It states on the INIS website that:

If, as an Irish national, you have exercised your EU Treaty Rights in another Member State with your family member and have now returned to Ireland you may apply.

How does an Irish National (for example) exercise their EU Treaty Rights in another member state ?

ResearchWill

CommanderC wrote: »

Hey- thanks for your reply.

Just regarding what you were saying about going to the UK.

It states on the INIS website that:

If, as an Irish national, you have exercised your EU Treaty Rights in another Member State with your family member and have now returned to Ireland you may apply.

How does an Irish National (for example) exercise their EU Treaty Rights in another member state ?

That covers a situation where an Irish persons leaves Ireland exercises treaty rights in say France, either moves with family or say meets a non eea national there. Their partner then has EU treaty rights. Say after 10 years the Irish national wants to move home then the directive states that the partner must retain treaty rights, on return to Ireland, so the partner has automatic right of entry to Ireland.

Also treaty rights can become personal to the partner in certain situations as set out in the directive.

BTW treaty rights to free movement is an economic right, you must be going to another country to work, or study, or look for work etc. there is an exception for persons who can show the necessary resources to maintain themselves.

This area of EU law is a minefield and the issues around immigration for partners is not very clear cut. If you are seeking to get status in Ireland then good advice should be sought from a solicitor.

CommanderC

Hey thanks again for your help !!

Hippo

Has your relationship been formalised? You say your de facto partner.

ResearchWill

Hippo wrote: »

Has your relationship been formalised? You say your de facto partner.

De facto relationship, is one where no formal arrangements have been entered into, but it can be proven that the couple have been in a relationship for at least 2 years, usually proved by way of a bills in both names etc.

Hippo

ResearchWill wrote: »

Hippo wrote: »

Has your relationship been formalised? You say your de facto partner.

De facto relationship, is one where no formal arrangements have been entered into, but it can be proven that the couple have been in a relationship for at least 2 years, usually proved by way of a bills in both names etc.

I know what it is, I'm not sure it's covered by this provision though

ResearchWill

Hippo wrote: »

I know what it is, I'm not sure it's covered by this provision though

In what way?

CommanderC

Hi again,

From what I have read so far de facto couples are covered. But then again....I could have mis interpreted the info I have found

We have been together the 3.5 years and living together for about 2.5 .

I think I understand it now- if my Irish partner were to exercise her right, as an EU citizen, to move to the UK (for example) and she worked over there and then returned to Ireland-in that case- she/we could apply for Stamp 4 EU Fam for me, as a non EEA person (New Zealander). At present, she has never worked in another EU country though.

Would it matter where I have lived ? Would she have to spend a minimum amount of time working in another EU country ?

Hippo

They're not married. I'm querying the recognition afforded by the Irish legislation to the definition of family for the purposes of the Directive. The Directive specifies 'registered partner' as being covered provided that the Member State recognises Civil Partnership or registered partner as being equivalent to marriage. This recognition of family in the broader sense is left to the discretion of the Member State. There is no 'de facto' family outside of the married family in Irish law that I'm aware of. This being so I'm not sure that the OP counts as a 'family member' under the Directive. I stand to be corrected.

Hippo

Sorry Commander C, didn't mean to leave you out of the conversation (just saw your post). I'm just not certain the Directive applies to you given that you're not married.

CommanderC

Hippo wrote: »

There is no 'de facto' family outside of the married family in Irish law that I'm aware of. This being so I'm not sure that the OP counts as a 'family member' under the Directive. I stand to be corrected.

Hey- there is now alright. As a de facto couple we can apply for a stamp 4 residence card. We have to prove a relationship of at least 2 years (don't have to be living together).

But I know what you mean, I don't know if a de facto partnership would be acceptable in this case of applying for a stamp 4 EU fam.

Hippo

Ok found the link now, seems fair enough. Sorry, it's just no-one had adduced any authority for this, I was a bit slow to believe it! Good luck with the application.