roaming rottweiler

google girl

there is a rottweiler dog roaming my estate. the owners 7yr old daughter just called to my house with it to play with my child. i told the child to take the dog straight home and dont bring it near my house again. I have 2 dogs myself i dont have a problem with dogs in general, but arent these dogs supposed to be muzzled etc, this dog doesnt even have a secure area to play, i.e theres no fence on the side of their house. as far as i can tell its allowed to go wherever it wants. i have reported it before, alhtough it was only a pup at the time and i wasnt as concerned. the response i was given by the council was they cant do anything (a) unless the dog actually bites someone and (b) i live in a private estate. unless the dog wanders onto the main road they cant do anything. also he added that the owners are normally hard to deal with!!!!!! (i.e they are non nationals) wtf is that supposed to mean. What do i do now?? has anyone been in a similar situation??

evilmonkee

Dogs should not be allowed wander. REGARDLESS of breed.

Please don't judge a dog by its breed. I'd be just as worried if the child was wandering about with a lab or a terrier.

By reading your post, it would appear that you are against this dog due to many factors, including the breed. This kind of discrimination will not help in any way when addressing the issue. In fact, it will do the contrary and make people push against you as they will assume that you are overreacting due to RB Propoganda.

I would suggest that you refer to the dog as a "dog" and not by breed, the fact that its a specific breed doesn't really matter in this case, no dog is legally allowed out by itself without being under full control (which a young child cannot be). By doing so, your concerns will usually be taken more seriously as the stigma has been removed.

As long as a dog is outside of the owners property then it is regarded as a stray, regardless of whether your estate is private. I would suggest that you contact your local dog warden, the contact list can be found here.

are you serious

What has the dog actually done that is wrong, apart from being a Rottweiler....( all Rottweiler's are not actually devil dogs...)

If this was a large Labrador (some of which are actually larger the Rotts) would it be an issue?

If the warden will not do anything there is not a lot else you can do..

The nationality of the owner shouldn't have anything to do with wether the warden goes to deal with them or not.

If you are really so concerned could you not go and ask the owners to keep the dog out their back garden?

google girl

i'm a dog lover myself, but i am aware that there are certain breeds which are supposed to be muzzled thats all. It wasnt me who had an issue with the owners nationality it was the dog warden, i was gobsmacked when he asked me are they irish and then added, 'they can be hard to deal with' and he said 'could you not just go and talk to them'. but thats why i rang the dog warden as i thought that was their job.

ISDW

google girl wrote: »

i'm a dog lover myself, but i am aware that there are certain breeds which are supposed to be muzzled thats all. It wasnt me who had an issue with the owners nationality it was the dog warden, i was gobsmacked when he asked me are they irish and then added, 'they can be hard to deal with' and he said 'could you not just go and talk to them'. but thats why i rang the dog warden as i thought that was their job.

Yes, you're right, there are some breeds that are supposed to be muzzled, by law, however, by law, no dog should be roaming anyway, all dogs must be under effective control. So the breed doesn't really come into it, by allowing the dog to roam the estate, the law is being broken

TehDagsBass

Why not approach the owners over it?

Obviously any roaming dog is something to be concerned about, but I suppose if they're going to let it roam with a 7 year old, the least you could do would be to insist it has a non-fabric muzzle on in the off-chance it is provoked by a child or its prey-drive kicks in for some reason and it goes for someone else's pet.

I wouldn't really worry about the breed to be honest, it's a dog and it's out and about with someone who can't control it, being brought around to other children who won't be able to control it and who themselves through poking/pulling/riding/etc. are the most likely to trigger an incident than if it were left to its own devices.

I'd talk to the owners, they're not Irish but I'm sure they won't bite(!?) if you go over to voice your concerns. I'd drop the hysteria surrounding it also, and making references to the breed. You should be equally concerned by any breed as a 7 year old won't stop most of them if they're set off. As someone who loves animals, I'd try to deal with the owners myself before going to the "warden" in the area and risking the life of a perfectly healthy and happy dog over the ignorance of a man/woman tasked to do a job they've no job doing/qualification to do (I'm looking at you, Mr.Coote).

Best of luck with it

jupiterjack

google girl wrote: »

i'm a dog lover myself, but i am aware that there are certain breeds which are supposed to be muzzled thats all. It wasnt me who had an issue with the owners nationality it was the dog warden, i was gobsmacked when he asked me are they irish and then added, 'they can be hard to deal with' and he said 'could you not just go and talk to them'. but thats why i rang the dog warden as i thought that was their job.

you may be a dog lover yourself but you dont seem to know anything about dogs. like all the other responents have said it should not matter what the breed of dog is, as all breeds of dogs have the potential to be dangerous and should not be wandering around loose. it is such a shame that this particular breed still gets such bad press from uneducated people like yourself.

Cherry Blossom

evilmonkee wrote: »

I would suggest that you refer to the dog as a "dog" and not by breed, the fact that its a specific breed doesn't really matter in this case, no dog is legally allowed out by itself without being under full control (which a young child cannot be).

Well I agree with your post, but my 7 year old niece is well capable of walking my terrier and have effective control. Now she would never be doing this unaccompanied, or be out of the house unaccompanied in any circumstance for that matter and I certainly wouldn't fancy her chances with the local pack of wandering aggressive dogs but their own owners are responsible for them.

The Control of Dogs Act makes no provisions for the minimum age of the handler outside of the Restricted Breeds list, so in this case the breed of dog involved is half the basis of OPs complaint. Because the dog is a restricted breed, is not on a lead, muzzled and accompanied by a person over the age of 16 that's where the breach of the law has occured, if the dog was a spaniel no law would be broken by the dog accompanying the child to the OP's house as long it came when she called it (unless there is provision made for this somewhere else under Irish law).

It sounds like the dog is also permitted to wander alone on a regular basis which is another issue, the relevant section in regard to this issue is this part:

(11) In this Act “stray dog” includes any dog which appears to be unaccompanied by a person unless such dog is on the premises of its owner or of some other person who has the dog in his charge or of any other person with that person's consent.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0011.html#sec11

fatmammycat

jupiterjack wrote: »

you may be a dog lover yourself but you dont seem to know anything about dogs. like all the other responents have said it should not matter what the breed of dog is, as all breeds of dogs have the potential to be dangerous and should not be wandering around loose. it is such a shame that this particular breed still gets such bad press from uneducated people like yourself.

For God's sake, she hardly gave the dog 'bad press'. She's a mother concernced about a large loose uncontrolled dog that the dog warden seems reluctant to do anything about.

OP if you can, discuss it with the owners and see if they are amenable to keeping their dog under control, as they should.

DeeRottie

I own a lovely little Rottie X and she is much more placid and friendly than my two hyperactive smallies! So I am very much of the 'deed not breed' ilk. However I share the OP's concerns. This dog (regardless of breed) should not be allowed wander and if a dog is loose in public it is the warden's duty to pick this dog up.
The fact that it is a restricted breed adds more to the mix, however. The law says that this dog should be muzzled, on a lead and under the control of someone over 16. If this dog gets involved in the slightest incident it will most likely be seized and PTS and give more bad publicity to a breed that doesn't deserve it, rather than the stupid, irresponsible people who claim to own it.

I would think though that you should speak to you neighbours first. If their little girl plays with yours then there is obv some connection between you. Because they are are non-nationals maybe they are not aware of the law here as every country has its own laws - a Rottie would not be required to be muzzled in the UK for example. Tell them you are afraid that their dog will be taken to the pound for roaming and being a resticted breed, they won't necessarily get it back as the warden could deem it 'dangerous'. After that, they only have themselves to blame.

evilmonkee

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Well I agree with your post, but my 7 year old niece is well capable of walking my terrier and have effective control. Now she would never be doing this unaccompanied,.

My point that a young child (unaccompanied as the one in question was) cannot be under control of a dog.
If a terrier was to attack another dog (or was rilled up by one and snapped), decided that he wanted to chase a cat or one of a million things dogs can randomly do. A young child would not be in control of this situation.

Dogs that are not under proper control are also considered stray dogs.
As stated here.

Cherry Blossom

evilmonkee wrote: »

My point that a young child (unaccompanied as the one in question was) cannot be under control of a dog.

Depends on the child, and the dog and it's training, as I already said my 7 year old niece would have no problem at all. I think I'm in a better position to be the judge of that than you are seeing as you've never met either. I'm well aware of what the law is and how it is worded in the Irish statutes, I don't need to read someone else's summarised version of it. The law is crystal clear, the only breach that occured under the control of dogs act that occurred by the dog being accompanied by the child is completely based on the fact that it's a Restricted Breed.

I find it utterly amazing that so many people who are anti the RB list jump to the defence of irresponsible owners who are the very people that contribute to their reputation in the first place. Your entitled to your opinion on stupid laws - but the OP didn't ask for it.

christmas2012

contact the dog warden if it bites thats all you can do

DeeRottie

Actually it's not all you can do. Firstly, the warden is coming up with bs and quite frankly racist reasons not to do their job. But if they are refusing, you can actually bring the dog to the pound yourself - controversial I know, and not something I'd particularly like to do. But last week I rang the pound to report a dog that was running in and out of traffic on a very busy road. Even though it was a Sat morning and the pound was open, I was told there was no warden on duty and would I pick up the dog and bring it to the pound myself - seriously?!?!
Just playing devil's advocate here, personally I'd rather ring the pound every day til they do come out, they have no excuse not to.

gud4u

Regardless of breed, the bigger the dog, the bigger the bite. So it's a rottweiler, it's an RB, should be muzzled and should be with someone over the age of 16. Therefore, it's a little more serious than a bite, shove, scratch or growl from any other breed. The dog warden should be on to it.

What I've just written annoys me, but it's law and fact. Pound for pound, you won't walk away mildly irritated from the snap of a rottie, nor can you just kick them off in an attack.

A terrier is more likely to bite a child but the harm it'll do is less damaging than any bigger breed, the breed in question on this thresd is unfortunately our mild mannered Rotties again.

But, like has also been stated, if anything does happen, the law will fall on responsible RB owners again.

If the owners are indeed ''foreign nationals'' particularly Eastern European, they have a great love of Rotties and do not have the rules we have, They may not be aware of the RB laws of Ireland, have a word with them yourself and see what happpens. If they are unreasonable, then take it further.

Bobby Baccala

jupiterjack wrote: »

you may be a dog lover yourself but you dont seem to know anything about dogs. like all the other responents have said it should not matter what the breed of dog is, as all breeds of dogs have the potential to be dangerous and should not be wandering around loose. it is such a shame that this particular breed still gets such bad press from uneducated people like yourself.

Who are you to say the OP is an uneducated person? Bit of a wankery response if you ask me.

@OP go around to the owner, tell them the dog shouldn't be out, if they can't understand you or just purely ignore you then ring the dog warden again, get it taken away on them. It's the owners fault, they shouldn't have it out or off a lead for that matter.

ppink

google girl wrote: »

there is a rottweiler dog roaming my estate. the owners 7yr old daughter just called to my house with it to play with my child. i told the child to take the dog straight home and dont bring it near my house again. I have 2 dogs myself i dont have a problem with dogs in general, but arent these dogs supposed to be muzzled etc, this dog doesnt even have a secure area to play, i.e theres no fence on the side of their house. as far as i can tell its allowed to go wherever it wants. i have reported it before, alhtough it was only a pup at the time and i wasnt as concerned. the response i was given by the council was they cant do anything (a) unless the dog actually bites someone and (b) i live in a private estate. unless the dog wanders onto the main road they cant do anything. also he added that the owners are normally hard to deal with!!!!!! (i.e they are non nationals) wtf is that supposed to mean. What do i do now?? has anyone been in a similar situation??

I think you have a couple of options

1) talk to the owners yourself and tell them you are not happy with a dog roaming around and see what they say.

2) call the dog warden. tell him large dog roaming around scaring you and if he says he cant do anything tell him you will be holding the council responsible if there is an incident.

it does not matter if it is a rottweiler or scooby doo it should not be roaming.

time lord

google girl wrote: »

there is a rottweiler dog roaming my estate. the owners 7yr old daughter just called to my house with it to play with my child. i told the child to take the dog straight home and dont bring it near my house again. I have 2 dogs myself i dont have a problem with dogs in general, but arent these dogs supposed to be muzzled etc, this dog doesnt even have a secure area to play, i.e theres no fence on the side of their house. as far as i can tell its allowed to go wherever it wants. i have reported it before, alhtough it was only a pup at the time and i wasnt as concerned. the response i was given by the council was they cant do anything (a) unless the dog actually bites someone and (b) i live in a private estate. unless the dog wanders onto the main road they cant do anything. also he added that the owners are normally hard to deal with!!!!!! (i.e they are non nationals) wtf is that supposed to mean. What do i do now?? has anyone been in a similar situation??

The dog warden is fobbing you off in my opinion. Your estate is a public place even if it is a private estate.
“public place” means any street, road, seashore, park, land, field or other place to which the public have access, whether by right or by permission, and whether subject to or free of charge (control of dogs act 1986).
Ask for the line manager's number of the dog warden and take it further all the way up the line if needs be. I guarantee a different result.
Another thing if the dog bites it still will have little to do with the warden. It will be a civil matter between the owners of the dog and the victim.

star-pants

Guys lay off the personal comments please.

are you serious

time lord wrote: »

The dog warden is fobbing you off in my opinion. Your estate is a public place even if it is a private estate.
“public place” means any street, road, seashore, park, land, field or other place to which the public have access, whether by right or by permission, and whether subject to or free of charge (control of dogs act 1986).

unless of course it is a gated estate....

time lord

are you serious wrote: »

unless of course it is a gated estate....

Yes it could be used as an excuse but if I felt the dog was posing a threat to anyone I would still enter without need of a warrent as the location where the dog is, is not a dwelling. The warden would still be empowered to act in this estate just not in anyones dwelling.
Ps If people wish to check there is no defination of a dwelling in the Control of dogs act but the few barristers (only 2) I've talked to about this topic agreed that common areas even if gated and signed "private property" do not limit the powers of the dog warden in implimenting the control of dogs act. With 34 local authorities in the Republic I'm sure we could get a variance of answers:rolleyes:

are you serious

I was just saying about the gated estate in case you didnt know!

Clearly in the op's story this dog has done nothing to make anyone think it was a threat to anyone. She also did not say which kind of housing estate she lives in (if it even is a housing estate)