Water fluoridation should be scrapped!

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Drink 1 pint: Feel ever so slightly tipsy.

Drink 20 pints: Puke in a strangers face.


You see how this works?

Drinking alcohol in moderation can improve your health.


Too little of most vitamins is not exactly good for your health , you die horribly.
Vitamins in excess though are dangerous. If you ate a polar bears liver you'd probably die from OD'ing on vitamins.

opinion guy

Ban Polar Bears!!!!

zenno

zenno wrote: »

Clean the water through the system of cleansing but don't pump it full of chemicals ffs.

Enjoy your regular bouts of gastroenteritis when they take the chlorine out so.

I always think it's somewhat funny when people use the word "chemicals" in a perjorative sense.

Name one thing on earth that isn't full of chemicals.

opinion guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Enjoy your regular bouts of gastroenteritis when they take the chlorine out so.

I always think it's somewhat funny when people use the word "chemicals" in a perjorative sense.

Name one thing on earth that isn't full of chemicals.

Photons

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Photons

Damn you!!!!

Okay name one substance. And lets leave out electromagnetic radiation with its funky wave/particle thing going on.

partyatmygaff

Apparently anything that's "natural" or "organic" isn't made of chemicals.

My name is URL

Deleted User wrote: »

Enjoy your regular bouts of gastroenteritis when they take the chlorine out so.

I always think it's somewhat funny when people use the word "chemicals" in a perjorative sense.

Name one thing on earth that isn't full of chemicals.

How about if Zenno had said, 'don't medicate our water' instead? In the last thread on this subject; you claimed that adding fluoride to water is not a form of medication. You said that fluoride (when added to water) is not a medicine, but a mineral.

Do you still stand over that?

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

How about if Zenno had said, 'don't medicate our water' instead? In the last thread on this subject; you claimed that adding fluoride to water is not a form of medication. You said that fluoride (when added to water) is not a medicine, but a mineral.

Do you still stand over that?

Yes, fluoride is a mineral. It's in the BNF under minerals. Here's the wiki page on minerals. Fluoride is a mineral of the halide class. This is an absolutley irrefutable fact.

My name is URL

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, fluoride is a mineral. It's in the BNF under minerals. Here's the wiki page on minerals. Fluoride is a mineral of the halide class. This is an absolutley irrefutable fact.

So it's not a form of medication, even when used to treat or prevent an issue relating to health?

Lots of things are minerals, and still considered to be medications when used to either treat or prevent illness. Just because it's in the BNF as a mineral doesn't mean that it isn't a medication also. Many forms of sodium are also listed there, and some of those account as the main active ingredient in many medicines.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

So it's not a form of medication, even when used to treat or prevent an issue relating to health?

Lots of things are minerals, and still considered to be medications when used to either treat or prevent illness. Just because it's in the BNF as a mineral doesn't mean that it isn't a medication also. Many forms of sodium are also listed there, and some of those account as the main active ingredient in many medicines.

It's no more a medication than the addition of folic acid and iron to breakfast cereals.

opinion guy

My name is URL wrote: »

So it's not a form of medication, even when used to treat or prevent an issue relating to health?

Lots of things are minerals, and still considered to be medications when used to either treat or prevent illness. Just because it's in the BNF as a mineral doesn't mean that it isn't a medication also. Many forms of sodium are also listed there, and some of those account as the main active ingredient in many medicines.

Seeing as BNF stands for British National Formulary and a formulary is at its most basic a list of medicines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulary_%28pharmacy%29) would we not all agree then that its inclusion in the BNF is, in fact, an acknowledgment that it is a medication ????

(We can all have fun with definitions )

My name is URL

Deleted User wrote: »

It's no more a medication than the addition of folic acid and iron to breakfast cereals.

So is it..

A) a form of medication

or

not a form of medication

Don't compare it to any other substance, we're talking about a very specific issue here, and unless Corn Flakes are pumped into your home without you calling for it then your fortified food comparisons are moot.

opinion guy

Deleted User wrote: »

It's no more a medication than the addition of folic acid and iron to breakfast cereals.

You will find both of those in the BNF also. They are medications. Frequently prescribed ones at that!

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Seeing as BNF stands for British National Formulary and a formulary is at its most basic a list of medicines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulary_%28pharmacy%29) would we not all agree then that its inclusion in the BNF is, in fact, an acknowledgment that it is a medication ????

(We can all have fun with definitions )

Sure, something can be a mineral and a medication, my problem is that the anti-fluoros are trying to make it sound like the government is force feeding the population with haloperidol.

Many foodstuffs are artificially fortified with vitamins and minerals in much the same way as fluoride is added to the water. (In countries without water fluoridation, fluoride is added to table salt).

Yet I don't see the tinfoil hats complaing about these things.

sunshiner

Interesting development that you might find relevant...

"Update on fluoride campaign: Kerry County Council have agreed they want to remove fluoride in light of the recent report by Declan Waugh (2012) Human Toxicity Environmental Implications and Legal Implications of Water Fluoridation.
Kerry County Council are asking the government that they want to stop water fluoridation in Kerry until testing can be conducted to prove that the addition of hydrofluorisilic acid is safe for human health"

opinion guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, something can be a mineral and a medication, my problem is that the anti-fluoros are trying to make it sound like the government is force feeding the population with haloperidol.

Many foodstuffs are artificially fortified with vitamins and minerals in much the same way as fluoride is added to the water. (In countries without water fluoridation, fluoride is added to table salt).

Yet I don't see the tinfoil hats complaing about these things.

Indeed. I have put some thought into this figuring someone would bring it up one day in a discussion such as this.

There is a fundamental difference between fluoride and things like folic acid. Folic acid has a very very wide therapeutic index. In other words its really hard to overdose on it and get toxicity. Fluoride has a very narrow therapeutic index - in other words its really really easy to overdose on it.

I would argue that therapeutic index should be a good discriminator between substances which could be safely used in mass medication such as food fortification or water doping.

No doubt you have heard some fools arguing for adding lithium to water to prevent depression ? Lithium has a very very low therapeutic index, making this a very VERY bad idea.

RichieC

You will be mocked relentlessly for bringing up this taboo topic, OP. The information police are watching.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Indeed. I have put some thought into this figuring someone would bring it up one day in a discussion such as this.

There is a fundamental difference between fluoride and things like folic acid. Folic acid has a very very wide therapeutic index. In other words its really hard to overdose on it and get toxicity. Fluoride has a very narrow therapeutic index - in other words its really really easy to overdose on it.
.

From what I can find the TI of fluoride is 2-50mg per day. That seems pretty wide to me. At 1mg/L it would be very hard to exceed the safe dose, even with other sources taken into account.

Parsley

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Drinking alcohol in moderation can improve your health.


Too little of most vitamins is not exactly good for your health , you die horribly.
Vitamins in excess though are dangerous. If you ate a polar bears liver you'd probably die from OD'ing on vitamins.

two arctic explorers died from vitamin A overdose after eating the livers of their huskies, that had earlier eaten the liver of a polar bear. pretty toxic alright.

Pushtrak

I posted this earlier, but in case people missed it...

Sources in video

A. General topic:
**1. "Ten Great Public Health Achievements --- United States, 1900-1999"
MMWR April 02, 1999 / 48(12);241-243

2. J Dent Res. 2011 May;90(5):573-9.
"Cochrane reviews on the benefits/risks of fluoride toothpastes."

3. Dent Update. 2010 Nov;37(9):595-8, 601-2.
"Why fluoride?"

**4. Aust New Zealand Health Policy. 2007 Dec 9;4:25.
"When public action undermines public health: a critical examination of antifluoridationist literature."

5. MMWR Recomm Rep. 2001 Aug 17;50(RR-14):1-42.
"Recommendations for using fluoride to prevent and control dental caries in the United States. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

6. Community Dent Health. 2008 Dec;25(4 Suppl 1):257-67.
"Effective use of fluorides in the People's Republic of China--a model for WHO Mega Country initiatives."

7. Community Dent Health. 1996 Sep;13 Suppl 2:56-62.
"Cancer and fluoridation."

**8. BMJ. 2000 Oct 7;321(7265):855-9.
"Systematic review of water fluoridation."

B. Economics of water fluoridation:
1. Prev Chronic Dis. 2005 Nov;2
"Costs and savings associated with community water fluoridation programs in Colorado."

2. Aust Dent J. 2010 Mar;55(1):37-44.
"The impact of changing dental needs on cost savings from fluoridation."

3. J Public Health Dent. 2001 Spring;61(2):78-86.
"An economic evaluation of community water fluoridation."

C. Fluorosis:
1. Schweiz Monatsschr Zahnmed. 2011;121(7-8):647-56.
"Prevalence of enamel fluorosis in 12-year-olds in two Swiss cantons."

2. J Am Coll Nutr. 2004 Apr;23(2):108-16.
"Associations between Intakes of fluoride from beverages during infancy and dental fluorosis of primary teeth."

3. J Can Dent Assoc. 2003 May;69(5):286-91.
"An update on fluorides and fluorosis."

4. J Am Dent Assoc. 2000 Jun;131(6):746-55.
"Risk of enamel fluorosis in nonfluoridated and optimally fluoridated populations: considerations for the dental professional."

D. Caries:
1. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2011 Sep 23;60(37):1275-8.
"Dental caries in rural Alaska Native children--Alaska, 2008."

2. Public Health Rep. 2010 Sep-Oct;125(5):655-64.
"Community effectiveness of public water fluoridation in reducing children's dental disease."

3. Public Health Rep. 2010 Sep-Oct;125(5):647-54.
"Geographic variation in medicaid claims for dental procedures in New York State: role of fluoridation under contemporary conditions."

4. J Appl Oral Sci. 2008 Jan-Feb;16(1):70-4.
"Root caries in areas with and without fluoridated water at the Southeast region of São Paulo State, Brazil."

5. J Public Health Dent. 1995 Fall;55(4):218-28.
"Associations between exposure to fluoridated drinking water and dental caries experience among children in two Australian states."

6. J Public Health Dent. 2001 Summer;61(3):168-71.
"Community fluoridation status and caries experience in children."

**7. Public Health Rep. 2010 Sep-Oct;125(5):655-64.
"Community effectiveness of public water fluoridation in reducing children's dental disease."

8. Int J Epidemiol. 1999 Apr;28(2):300-5.
The effect of water fluoridation and social inequalities on dental caries in 5-year-old children.

E. Bone density:
1. Community Dent Health. 1996 Sep;13 Suppl 2:63-8.
"Water fluoridation and osteoporotic fracture."

2. BMJ. 2000 Oct 7;321(7265):860-4.
"Community water fluoridation, bone mineral density, and fractures: prospective study of effects in older women."

3. J Nutr. 2005 Sep;135(9):2247-52.
"Elevated serum fluoride concentrations in women are not related to fractures and bone mineral density."

F. Use in baby formula:
1. J Am Dent Assoc. 2009 Oct;140(10):1228-36.
"Assessing a potential risk factor for enamel fluorosis: a preliminary evaluation of fluoride content in infant formulas."

2. ASDC J Dent Child. 2001 Jan-Feb;68(1):37-41, 10.
"Fluoride content of infant formulas prepared with deionized, bottled mineral and fluoridated drinking water."

3. J Am Dent Assoc. 2009 Jul;140(7):841-54.
"Infant formula and enamel fluorosis: a systematic review."

G. Fluoride and Heavy Metal Absorption:

1. Environ Health Perspect. 2006 Jan;114(1):130-4.
"Blood lead concentrations in children and method of water fluoridation in the United States, 1988-1994."

2. Neurotoxicology. 2000 Dec;21(6):1091-100.
"Association of silicofluoride treated water with elevated blood lead."

Lefticus Loonaticus

I think the government wants to take it out, but they cant because they would then have to give a reason. The reason they would have to give, which is the reason most of us already know, is that its toxic waste from heavy industry and its damaging to peoples health.

Its all politics. No one wants to take the blame for this scandal while in office so they will deny and kick the can down the road.

Theres gonna be some amount of people lynched by the side of the road when this comes out, and it will do eventually.

Alot of pressure from the USA aswell for us not to step out of line.

partyatmygaff

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

I think the government wants to take it out, but they cant because they would then have to give a reason. The reason they would have to give, which is the reason most of us already know, is that its toxic waste from heavy industry and its damaging to peoples health.

Where's the evidence that Ireland uses "toxic waste from heavy industry" to fluoridate its water?

I can't wait to see what you've got.

Alot of pressure from the USA aswell for us not to step out of line.

Damn Americans and their obsession with teeth.

Lefticus Loonaticus

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Where's the evidence that Ireland uses "toxic waste from heavy industry" to fluoridate its water?

I can't wait to see what you've got.

Damn Americans and their obsession with teeth.

Read my post on the last page here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055939785&page=6

All the the links and info you need. Also has a bit about austrailian tap water.

About the USA. The more countries in europe that go against fluoride, the harder it is over there to maintain the program, go figure.

Capt'n Midnight

Regarding toxic waste.

Most food products that contain "milk solids" are made from whey, which until relatively recently was considered toxic waste.

Have I seen lagoons filled with whey waiting for some way to dispose of it ?
Yes actually.



Also note that most over the counter medicines are toxic waste, you can't throw them out in the bin. But you can eat them if you have a headache or a runny nose. You just can't throw them out in the bin.


Oh and Oxygen is mutagenic

Lefticus Loonaticus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Regarding toxic waste.

Most food products that contain "milk solids" are made from whey, which until relatively recently was considered toxic waste.

Have I seen lagoons filled with whey waiting for some way to dispose of it ?
Yes actually.



Also note that most over the counter medicines are toxic waste, you can't throw them out in the bin. But you can eat them if you have a headache or a runny nose. You just can't throw them out in the bin.


Oh and Oxygen is mutagenic

Taken from the link from the other thread that i linked. Which i also linked in the first place.

"The fluoride added to our drinking water is fertiliser waste imported from Holland. The importers are Albatros Fertilizers Ltd., New Ross, County Wexford. This is not a manufactured product, it is contaminated with considerable amounts of Arsenic, Lead and Antimony. These are all toxic heavy metals. Arsenic and lead are both proven carcinogens i.e. cancer causing. The document below was accessed under the Freedom of Information Act 1997 from the Eastern Health Board. The Dept. of Health is not only adding fluoride to our water but arsenic and lead also. These are all accumulative toxins i.e. they build up in our tissues and organs. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, fluoride is more toxic than lead and slightly less toxic than arsenic but we are drinking unmeasured, uncontrolled levels of all three chemicals everyday! This toxic cocktail is forced upon us for the good of our teeth. We have no choice."

Capt'n Midnight

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

we are drinking unmeasured, uncontrolled levels of all three chemicals everyday!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1962/en/si/0075.html

8. The fluorine content of each of the public water supplies mentioned in the First Schedule to these Regulations to which fluorine has been added shall be determined daily by a colorimetric method and, in addition, shall be determined by a distillation method at intervals not exceeding two weeks during the period of six months after the date on which fluorine shall have been first so added and thereafter at intervals not exceeding four weeks.

So by the 1962 law it must be measured daily
2007 law says the same.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/si/0042.html

Specification for Hydrofluosilicic acid of 10.9 per cent strength.

The acid as supplied shall contain 10.9 per cent by weight of fluosilicic acid (H2SiF6) subject to a tolerance of 0.3 per cent above or below that strength, and shall contain not more than the limits for “heavy metals” as specified in the appropriate European Standard (IS.EN 12175:2001) and no other soluble mineral or organic substance in quantities capable of a deleterious or injurious effect upon health.

Your 1997 reference is kinda outdated by the use of 2001 EU standards.

The EU std. is behind paywalls though but it's the same one as used by the Germans and others who'd be more picky than we are about such things.

partyatmygaff

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Taken from the link from the other thread that i linked. Which i also linked in the first place.

"The fluoride added to our drinking water is fertiliser waste imported from Holland. The importers are Albatros Fertilizers Ltd., New Ross, County Wexford. This is not a manufactured product, it is contaminated with considerable amounts of Arsenic, Lead and Antimony. These are all toxic heavy metals. Arsenic and lead are both proven carcinogens i.e. cancer causing. The document below was accessed under the Freedom of Information Act 1997 from the Eastern Health Board. The Dept. of Health is not only adding fluoride to our water but arsenic and lead also. These are all accumulative toxins i.e. they build up in our tissues and organs. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, fluoride is more toxic than lead and slightly less toxic than arsenic but we are drinking unmeasured, uncontrolled levels of all three chemicals everyday! This toxic cocktail is forced upon us for the good of our teeth. We have no choice."

Just because something is imported as a waste product does not mean it's used in its initial state. It's not hugely difficult to separate a particular compound from a mass of other compounds to a relatively high degree of purity.

As for heavy metals, there are very stringent standards and very robust testing methods used to ensure that drinking water meets those standards so the idea that we are "drinking unmeasured, uncontrolled levels of all three chemicals everyday" is to put it plainly BS. Mainly because we're not all dying from heavy metal poisoning but also because what I just mentioned about the testing that prevents excess heavy metals being present in water.

sheesh

but I thought Chemicals were our friends!

Capt'n Midnight

sheesh wrote: »

but I thought Chemicals were our friends!

Some of the known perils of DHMO are:
Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
Contributes to soil erosion.
Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.


Some of the well-known uses of are:
as an industrial solvent and coolant,
in nuclear power plants,
by the U.S. Navy in the propulsion systems of some older vessels,
by elite athletes to improve performance,
in the production of Styrofoam,
in biological and chemical weapons manufacture,
in the development of genetically engineering crops and animals,
as a spray-on fire suppressant and retardant,
in so-called "family planning" or "reproductive health" clinics,
as a major ingredient in many home-brewed bombs,
as a byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion in furnaces and air conditioning compressor operation,
in cult rituals,
by the Church of Scientology on their members and their members' families
by both the KKK and the NAACP during rallies and marches,
by members of Congress who are under investigation for financial corruption and inappropriate IM behavior,
historically, in Hitler's death camps in Nazi Germany, and in prisons in Turkey, Serbia, Croatia, Libya, Iraq and Iran,
in World War II prison camps in Japan, and in prisons in China, for various forms of torture,
during many recent religious and ethnic wars in the Middle East,
by many terrorist organizations including al Qaeda,
in community swimming pools to maintain chemical balance,
in day care centers, purportedly for sanitary purposes,
by the semi-divine King Bhumibol of Thailand and his many devoted young working girls in Bangkok,
by the British Chiropractic Association and the purveyors of the bogus treatments that the BCA promotes,
by commodities giant Trafigura in their well-publicized and widely-known toxic-waste dumping activities in Ivory Coast,
in animal research laboratories, and
in pesticide production and distribution

partyatmygaff

No more DHMO in our water supplies. This madness has to stop.