HSE wont return my documents

endofrainbow

In a nutshell, I applied for medical card renewal last September. I sent in original documents as requested by them , received on September 4th, with a covering letter requested that all documents be returned to me.

After numerous emails, letters and phone calls, contact with the Data Protection People, they have told me that the documents were returned to me on February 29th (one document was returned - there are 2 outstanding).

The documents that are missing are a pension slip and a bank statement (both with my details on them). Their *records* show that they sent them to me. At this stage, I am very concerned as to the whereabouts of these sensitive details. I have gone through all the officials channels and am now wondering can anyone advise what I can do next? It's now over 8 months since I first requested these documents.:mad:

McCrack

Data protection doesn't apply to the HSE, make a Freedom of Information request. They are then statutory bound to reply. Depending on their response to that you are then at liberty to refer the matter to the Information Commissioner. All this information is available on the Commissioners website.

Delancey

Given the chaotic nature of the HSE Department that handles Medical Cards I think its a miracle the OP got anything back.

wmpdd3

They lost 2 originals of my children's birth certs.

endofrainbow

McCrack wrote: »

Data protection doesn't apply to the HSE, make a Freedom of Information request. They are then statutory bound to reply. Depending on their response to that you are then at liberty to refer the matter to the Information Commissioner. All this information is available on the Commissioners website.

hmm - not sure if this is the answer - I KNOW the information they hold on me - I just want the originals returned...

Our man in Havana

wmpdd3 wrote: »

They lost 2 originals of my children's birth certs.

Those can be replaced.

time lord

wmpdd3 wrote: »

They lost 2 originals of my children's birth certs.

None of us have our originals. They are never issued. We all just get a copy. You can go back and get another copy and see the original in the office but it stays in the book.
First issued ones can be of a sentimental value so annoying to loose but originals are safe:)

Hope this helps.

wmpdd3

True, but i wouldnt trust them to shred them, they are probably sitting in the file of some other family!

BornToKill

wmpdd3 wrote: »

True, but i wouldnt trust them to shred them, they are probably sitting in the file of some other family!

If that's true then no amount of letters, emails or FOI requests will do any good.

James Jones

McCrack wrote: »

Data protection doesn't apply to the HSE

Not true. See HERE.

The requirements of the Data Protection Acts apply to all legal entities in this jurisdiction whether Government, private, voluntary or charitable that control personal data.

McCrack

Data Protection Acts do not apply to the HSE as I have said. The HSE is a prescribed organisation (one of many) under the Freedom of Information Acts.

The Data Protection Commissioner's office has no control over the HSE. The Information Commissioner's office is the correct office to refer any matter to.

To reiterate to the OP, contact the Information Commissioner for advice if you are getting nowhere with the powers that be in the HSE.

http://www.oic.gov.ie

James Jones

McCrack wrote: »

Data Protection Acts do not apply to the HSE as I have said. The HSE is a prescribed organisation (one of many) under the Freedom of Information Acts.
The Data Protection Commissioner's office has no control over the HSE.

Any chance of a link to back that up?

McCrack

See above, post 11.

James Jones

McCrack wrote: »

Data protection doesn't apply to the HSE.

You still haven't backed up this claim. A link to the FoI Commissioner does nothing to back up your claim.

McCrack

For the purposes of this thread and the OP's query the Information Commissioner is the correct oversight body for the HSE and the office to contact (if they can help in this instance).

I was hasty with my reply. Data protection applies but in the realm of the FOI acts. That's the distinction I was trying to make particularly when the OP said they contacted the Data Protection Commissioner.

James Jones

I reckon you're mixing up the functions of both acts in relation to the OP. Freedom of Information governs the release of documents to a requester whereas endofrainbow has queried how he would sort out the fact that documents he submitted were not returned.

Endofrainbow should contact the HSE Data Controller as

A data controller is the individual or the legal person who controls and is responsible for the keeping and use of personal information on computer or in structured manual files.

McCrack

The data controller in this instance is the HSE. As I have said already the body overseeing the HSE in this regard is the Information Commissioner not the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner.

James Jones

McCrack wrote: »

As I have said already the body overseeing the HSE in this regard is the Information Commissioner not the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner.

I know.

However, you have yet to supply a reference to back up what you have said.

McCrack

What I've said is a matter of practical procedure which is appropriate to the OP query and i have explained why and I have already linked the IC's website so I really don't know what more I can say or add.

If you read the Information Commissioners website you will see that the HSE is a prescribed body under its watch and that FOI applies to it.

How much assistance it can give the OP I don't know but I would certainly advise contacting them if all internal avenues within the HSE have been explored and the problem not resolved.

testicle

McCrack wrote: »

Data Protection Acts do not apply to the HSE as I have said. The HSE is a prescribed organisation (one of many) under the Freedom of Information Acts.

The Data Protection Commissioner's office has no control over the HSE. The Information Commissioner's office is the correct office to refer any matter to.

To reiterate to the OP, contact the Information Commissioner for advice if you are getting nowhere with the powers that be in the HSE.

http://www.oic.gov.ie

The HSE disagrees with you. http://www.hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/DP/

McCrack

testicle wrote: »

The HSE disagrees with you. http://www.hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/DP/[/QUOTE]

I clarified that in post no 15

Delancey

I think there may be a distinction to be made here between medical or other sensitive information versus non-medical information.

I once worked for the HSE ( awful experience btw ) , I subsequently had a dispute with them and was able to request the relevant file under Data Protection legislation , important to note that there was no medical information involved.

Given that the OP's issue revolves around non-medical matter then perhaps Data Protection does apply ? Just a thought........

James Jones

McCrack wrote: »

testicle wrote: »

The HSE disagrees with you. http://www.hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/DP/

I clarified that in post no 15

I don't think you've clarified anything. I think you've mixed up what the OP actually requires. The Freedom of Information process allows a requester access to information stored by the HSE (or any other prescribed body). The OP is not looking for information. The problem is that documentation that he submitted has been lost. That is a Data Protection concern, as the HSE Data Controller has a legal responsibility

for the keeping and use of personal information on computer or in structured manual files.

McCrack wrote: »

the HSE is a prescribed body under its watch and that FOI applies to it.How much assistance it can give the OP I don't know but I would certainly advise contacting them if all internal avenues within the HSE have been explored and the problem not resolved.

FoI will only assist the OP seeking documentation. It will not address the failure of the HSE to properly keep documentation submitted. A Complaint might assist. If not satisfied with the outcome, a complaint will eventually be dealt with by the Office of the Ombudsman. As the Ombudsman and the Freedom of Information Commissioner are one and the same, this might be what has caused the confusion.

Delancey wrote: »

I think there may be a distinction to be made here between medical or other sensitive information versus non-medical information.

There is no distinction in the Freedom of Information acts. The HSE don't even claim that HERE.

biddybops

endofrainbow wrote: »

In a nutshell, I applied for medical card renewal last September. I sent in original documents as requested by them , received on September 4th, with a covering letter requested that all documents be returned to me.

After numerous emails, letters and phone calls, contact with the Data Protection People, they have told me that the documents were returned to me on February 29th (one document was returned - there are 2 outstanding).

The documents that are missing are a pension slip and a bank statement (both with my details on them). Their *records* show that they sent them to me. At this stage, I am very concerned as to the whereabouts of these sensitive details. I have gone through all the officials channels and am now wondering can anyone advise what I can do next? It's now over 8 months since I first requested these documents.:mad:

When dealing with any state agency send a registered letter asking for the information you require to be accessed by the freedom of information act and also the data protection act( look up the relevant years for the acts as I can't recall offhand).
And the best of luck with that!
,

Departed

McCrack wrote: »

Data protection doesn't apply to the HSE, .

yes it does

Departed

McCrack wrote: »

I was hasty with my reply. .

you sure were:D

MadsL

testicle wrote: »

The HSE disagrees with you. http://www.hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/DP/

So does the Register...

https://www.dataprotection.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/register/default.asp?KW=Health_Service_Executive

The confusion is probably due to...

Restrictions on access to medical data and social work data.

The Data Protection (Access Modification) (Health) Regulations, 1989 (S.I. No. 82 of 1989) provide that health data relating to an individual should not be made available to the individual, in response to an access request, if that would be likely to cause serious harm to the physical or mental health of the data subject. A person who is not a health professional should not disclose health data to an individual without first consulting the individual’s own doctor, or some other suitably qualified health professional.

Similar provisions apply in respect of social work data. The Data Protection (Access Modification) (Social Work) Regulations, 1989 (S.I. No. 83 of 1989) provide that social work data relating to an individual should not be made available to the individual in response to an access request, if that would be likely to cause serious harm to the physical or mental health or emotional condition of the data subject. The regulations apply to social work carried on by Ministers, local authorities, health boards, or any voluntary or other body that receives public funding for this work.

OP should make a Subject Access Request to the HSE's Data Protection Officer (might be the FOI Officer)

How to is here http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing_Your_Personal_Information/14.htm - they MUST respond in 40 days or you can complain to the DP Comissioner.

endofrainbow

ok thanks for the wealth of information but I am left TOTALLY confused now. I did initially contact them under the Data Protection Acts, they did respond within the stipulated 21 days - but just to acknowledge receipt of my query. That was January 17th - numerous phone calls and emails later I am still none the wise as to the whereabouts of my bank statement and pension receipt, just totally frustrated at this stage :mad:

MadsL

Ring the Data Protection Commissioner's office and ask to make a formal complaint that the HSE have not complied with a Access Request within 40 days. Make a formal complaint. Also notify who you are dealing with in the HSE that you have made a formal complaint.

johnners2981

This is a bit off topic but while speaking of data protection, can the department of communication give out personal information to public/private companies without the individuals permission?

Departed

johnners2981 wrote: »

This is a bit off topic but while speaking of data protection, can the department of communication give out personal information to public/private companies without the individuals permission?

no