Monthly pay strikes fear.

Milk & Honey

Looks like some people are never happy. Many people would be more than happy to settle for a secure, permanent and pensionable job, but some think that pay frequency is a of critical importance. Of course there will be fewer staff needed in the pay departments an fewer promotion opportunities as a result so no wonder they are moaning.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0428/1224315296580.html

THE UNION representing lower paid civil servants has criticised plans by the Government to pay staff on a monthly basis from next year rather than weekly as at present.

The Civil Public and Services Union (CPSU) also warned yesterday of confrontation if the Government moved to reduce allowances to its members.

In an address on the opening day of its annual conference yesterday, union general secretary Eoin Ronayne said the proposal by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to introduce a monthly pay cycle had “struck fear and panic” into the minds of many members. The move would have “huge and worrying implications for those who can barely balance a weekly budget”.

“We cannot see any significant cost saving from this move and at a time when the largest public service employer, the HSE, is standardising at fortnightly pay, where does the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform think it is going with moving to monthly pay. It is time for a reality check. Try living on €400 a week and then go four weeks without pay.”

Mr Ronayne said that any move by the Government to reduce allowances for existing Civil Service staff – on foot of a review which is under way – would “inevitably lead to a confrontation”. Members had already experienced a 14 per cent pay cut, and any further reduction in take-home pay might well be the “straw that breaks the camel’s back”.

He also said any move by Government to withhold or freeze increments would be resisted. Increments were not bonuses or productivity payments but “legitimate service-based increases that recognise the skill and experience of staff as they move from a lower starting salary to the full value of the rate for the job”. Mr Ronayne criticised what he described as the almost weekly hysterical attacks in some publications on alleged “fat cat” pensions enjoyed by public servants “and the more mellow commentary on the pension and benefits package of one Gavin O’Reilly who stood down from Independent News and Media last weekend”.

He also called on the Government to reverse some of the pay cuts introduced in the public service over recent years as provided for under the Croke Park agreement. He said the deal allowed for the restoration of pay based on the first €35,000 earned and was to be negotiated last year. This never happened as the country fell under the command and control of the so-called troika.

He said pay restoration as envisaged under the Croke Park agreement made sense as money awarded to lower-paid workers would immediately find its way into the economy.

A Dub in Glasgo

I have been on a 4 weekly pay cycle (13 payments per year) since I started working 19 years ago. The world hasn't collapsed around me because of it

My name is URL

The move would have “huge and worrying implications for those who can barely balance a weekly budget.

Urge to kill rising.

How do these people manage to dress themselves in the morning? Jesus christ.. it's not harder to budget on a per month basis rather than on a per week one.. it's the same fcuking budget.. just done differently!

mikemac1

Went looking for other stuff from this guy

The members also voted in favour of a proposal to negotiate for the provision of a facility for all staff to finish once a week at 3.30pm in view of bank time having been abolished.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/civil-service-staff-to-campaign-for-referendum-no-vote-192110.html#ixzz1u6gci5EC

Be nice to finish early.
What's bank time?

hondasam

Something else to bash the PS with. The unions come out with these statements but it does not mean all members are saying or agreeing with it.
Lay of all PS workers crap that is usually posted on here.

Milk & Honey

hondasam wrote: »

Something else to bash the PS with. The unions come out with these statements but it does not mean all members are saying or agreeing with it.
Lay of all PS workers crap that is usually posted on here.

So you are saying that civil service workers join unions ,which unions then go on to tell lies about their views?

sparkydee

mikemac1 wrote: »

Went looking for other stuff from this guy



Be nice to finish early.
What's bank time?

Here we go again. That was a stupid motion put forward at conference not something that is actively being pursued. Secondly when you are used to being paid weekly it is a bit of a change to move to being paid monthly. Just because something is said at a conference doesn't mean it represents every public sector worker.

Turtyturd

mikemac1 wrote: »

Be nice to finish early.
What's bank time?

Started out as staff getting 1/2 an hour off to go and cash their cheques when they were paid, now they still get the time even though they are paid into the bank.

sparkydee

Milk & Honey wrote: »

So you are saying that civil service workers join unions ,which unions then go on to tell lies about their views?

Clearly not, just because you are in a union doesn't mean you agree with everything they say. What's wrong with that?

Stark

Yeah I remember when I moved from a job that paid weekly to one that paid monthly. Took me a whole month to adjust.

sparkydee

Turtyturd wrote: »

Started out as staff getting 1/2 an hour off to go and cash their cheques when they were paid, now they still get the time even though they are paid into the bank.

That time was stopped for anyone who joined after 2005 and is stopped completely now.

hondasam

Milk & Honey wrote: »

So you are saying that civil service workers join unions ,which unions then go on to tell lies about their views?

Were the members asked about this ? did they vote on it?

mikemac1

He said pay restoration as envisaged under the Croke Park agreement made sense as money awarded to lower-paid workers would immediately find its way into the economy.

Well following this we should increase the dole too

Milk & Honey

hondasam wrote: »

Were the members asked about this ? did they vote on it?

Are you saying that the General Secretary was making it up when he said that many workers were in fear?

Milk & Honey

sparkydee wrote: »

Clearly not, just because you are in a union doesn't mean you agree with everything they say. What's wrong with that?

Are you saying that if one member does not agree with the union there can be no adverse comment on the entire membership?

hondasam

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Are you saying that the General Secretary was making it up when he said that many workers were in fear?

Did he ask all the members? Union reps like to think they are speaking for everyone when obviously they are not.

longhalloween

Being paid monthly is a b*tch though. I just started a new job and was told it'd be 5 weeks before I'd see my first paycheck. Fine for me, but there was a few lads coming straight off the dole who'll be living on beans and toast for a while.

Milk & Honey

hondasam wrote: »

Did he ask all the members? Union reps like to think they are speaking for everyone when obviously they are not.

Do you expect him to ask every member before he says anything? What if he has been contacted by numerous members about an issue?

GLaDOS

longhalloween wrote: »

Being paid monthly is a b*tch though. I just started a new job and was told it'd be 5 weeks before I'd see my first paycheck. Fine for me, but there was a few lads coming straight off the dole who'll be living on beans and toast for a while.

Yeah it's a pain in the hole. Better than nothing though.

sparkydee

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Are you saying that if one member does not agree with the union there can be no adverse comment on the entire membership?

I would imagine that there would be more than one member that wouldn't agree but once a person is dead set on criticising as you are I would imagine there would be adverse comments regardless. There is no need to be facetious to another poster about contacting all members. If you feel free to criticise we should be free to say not at all public sector workers agree with what is being said.

dr.bollocko

Does it save money?

Money the govt doesn't have?

Is it simple to adjust to a monthly payment from a weekly payment for the vast majority of people?

Don't the unions have anything else more pressing to worry about in this economy than the frequency of bloody payment?

Milk & Honey

sparkydee wrote: »

I would imagine that there would be more than one member that wouldn't agree but once a person is dead set on criticising as you are I would imagine there would be adverse comments regardless. There is no need to be facetious to another poster about contacting all members. If you feel free to criticise we should be free to say not at all public sector workers agree with what is being said.

It is worthy of comment if even a substantial minority agree with it, which I assume is the case or it wouldn't be the subject of a speech.

hondasam

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Do you expect him to ask every member before he says anything? What if he has been contacted by numerous members about an issue?

Chances are not one person contacted him about it or if they did it is a small minority. I understand some people might not like to be paid monthly but it's hardly the end of the world.
There is no need for the unions to be getting all worked up about it but it's just a reason to bring up other stuff I would imagine.

Gummy Panda

Getting paid weekly feels crap. End of month and a nice wad of cash is the way to go

Monthly is easier to budget.. Your mortgage and debts get paid straight away and then ya live of the rest.

true

Manys a person in the private sector would love a nice cushy public sector job, with its greater security, on-average higher pay, shorter hours, better pension etc.

Logical Fallacy

My name is URL wrote: »

Urge to kill rising.

How do these people manage to dress themselves in the morning? Jesus christ.. it's not harder to budget on a per month basis rather than on a per week one.. it's the same fcuking budget.. just done differently!

It is pretty ****ing hilarious.

Anyone who has used that excuse as a reason for this change being bad should be instantly fired as they are clearly too retarded to do their ****ing job in the first place.

Milk & Honey

hondasam wrote: »

Chances are not one person contacted him about it or if they did it is a small minority. I understand some people might not like to be paid monthly but it's hardly the end of the world.
There is no need for the unions to be getting all worked up about it but it's just a reason to bring up other stuff I would imagine.

So chances are he is a liar?

steve9859

hondasam wrote: »

Something else to bash the PS with. The unions come out with these statements but it does not mean all members are saying or agreeing with it.
Lay of all PS workers crap that is usually posted on here.

Last time I looked, the union leaders represent the members and speak for them. If members don't like it, then they should sort it out

hondasam

Milk & Honey wrote: »

So chances are he is a liar?

Are you in a union? do you know how it works?
There was no ballot so you cannot say every member is saying this and you cannot say he is a liar either.

My name is URL

hondasam wrote: »

Are you in a union? do you know how it works?
There was no ballot so you cannot say every member is saying this and you cannot say he is a liar either.

Can we say that the mere suggestion that people are peeved off is a complete joke.. is that okay with you oh wise one?

Anyone considering taking industrial action over this needs their head examined.

hondasam

My name is URL wrote: »

Can we say that the mere suggestion that people are peeved off is a complete joke.. is that okay with you oh wise one?

Anyone considering taking industrial action over this needs their head examined.

I don't think many are peeved off at all and definitely will not be taking action over it. It would be ridiculous to complain about how wages are paid. imo

Milk & Honey

hondasam wrote: »

Are you in a union? do you know how it works?
There was no ballot so you cannot say every member is saying this and you cannot say he is a liar either.

He said many members were in fear. Is he making it up?

BornToKill

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The move would have “huge and worrying implications for those who can barely balance a weekly budget”.

Does this mean the main concerns emanate from the Department of Finance?

hondasam

Milk & Honey wrote: »

He said many members were in fear. Is he making it up?

Don't know but I'm sure he never asked all 13,000 members.

Milk & Honey

hondasam wrote: »

Don't know but I'm sure he never asked all 13,000 members.

Just because he didn't ask all of them does not mean that he is not speaking for a substantial number. You are engaging in typical Civil Service tactics to try and pretend the guy was on a solo run.

hondasam

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Just because he didn't ask all of them does not mean that he is not speaking for a substantial number. You are engaging in typical Civil Service tactics to try and pretend the guy was on a solo run.

I'm not a civil service worker.
You don't pick and choose who you ask, all members are asked at the same time.

Milk & Honey

hondasam wrote: »

I'm not a civil service worker.
You don't pick and choose who you ask, all members are asked at the same time.

What is a civil service worker? I note you did not say civil service employee.
He said "many members". Just because he did not ask all members simultaneously does not mean he cannot comment on a matter of interest to a substantial number of them? If one disagreed, he could not say anything?

woodoo

I think they could compromise on fortnightly pay. Monthly is too long.

oppenheimer1

Deleted User wrote: »

Monthly is easier to budget.. Your mortgage and debts get paid straight away and then ya live of the rest.

I'd disagree. Being paid monthly means that for 4 months of the year there are 5 weeks between pay days. I find you have to be a bit smarter with your budgeting on a monthly payment system.

It just takes a bit of getting used to.

woodoo wrote: »

I think they could compromise on fortnightly pay. Monthly is too long.

It is fortnightly at the moment

Pkiernan

sparkydee wrote: »

.... Secondly when you are used to being paid weekly it is a bit of a change to move to being paid monthly....

Try "Planning" - although it is a foreign concept to the PS Unions.

sparkydee

Pkiernan wrote: »

Try "Planning" - although it is a foreign concept to the PS Unions.

Typical, god some people are bitter aren't they? Where did I say people couldn't plan. Are things so bad that you can't say that it will be a change without getting a smart comment.

sparkydee

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Just because he didn't ask all of them does not mean that he is not speaking for a substantial number. You are engaging in typical Civil Service tactics to try and pretend the guy was on a solo run.

He's not saying that. I think getting paid monthly is the least worry of most civil servants that I know.

Milk & Honey

sparkydee wrote: »

He's not saying that. I think getting paid monthly is the least worry of most civil servants that I know.

That is the only conclusion available on what he has said. He is using the lack of a ballot as a smokescreen. There should be quarterly pay in the Civil service based on performance on what the country can afford.

midlands1

Turtyturd wrote: »

Started out as staff getting 1/2 an hour off to go and cash their cheques when they were paid, now they still get the time even though they are paid into the bank.

Thought bank was abolished .

gazzer

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'd disagree. Being paid monthly means that for 4 months of the year there are 5 weeks between pay days. I find you have to be a bit smarter with your budgeting on a monthly payment system.

It just takes a bit of getting used to.



It is fortnightly at the moment

Its weekly for Clerical Officers, only fortnightly if you get promoted from that grade or come into the Civil Service at a grade higher than Clerical Officer

jester77

Getting paid monthly is the easiest as all bills are monthly so it makes it easier to manage. Getting paid weekly or fortnightly would be a real pain in the ass plus costs more for the employer.

Galwayguy35

I wonder what the unions will have to give out about if the treaty is voted down. I'd say it's bye bye to "croke park" if it is.

68Murph68

Chances are there are savings to be made in terms of switching to this monthly system

The key factor to remember is that we are currently running a budget deficit which means we are effectively borrowing money to pay wages.

Even if we weren't borrowing there would be the time-value-of-money

For example's sake take someone on €800 per week

Currently they would receive

7th €800
14th €800
21st €800
28th €800

Under the new system they would receive

28th €3,200

In the first scenario you incur additional interest costs for borrowing money €800 for 21 days plus €800 for 14 days plus €800 for 7 days.

Assuming an interest rate of 3% per annum the first scenario would cost [(800*3/100/365*7)+(800*3/100/365*14)+(800*3/100/365*21)]*12 = 33.14 more than the second scenario.

Now this is for just one employee on €40,000

For 100 employees on €40,000 that's €3,314

There's probably chances that there are administration savings – even something as simple as envelopes, postage and paper for wages slips. If you are paying monthly you are going to incur these costs 12 times a year compared to 52 times a year. Multiply that be every employee and it will add up.

It might not seem much but I don't know how anyone can argue against this.

Basically if someone is unable to manage a monthly pay-check compared to a weekly pay-cheque I would have serious questions about their ability to perform even the most basic tasks and would be looking at whether they were capable of even performing their job.

Mouldy Mary

I was in the Civil Service. I was paid weekly and then fortnight. After I retired I was put on a monthly pension. Many young civil servants are broke a few days after getting their wages. On a weekly wage they have only a few days until the next pay day. if monthly pay comes in some of them will be broke for weeks at a time. I would be concerned that they would be tempted to commit fraud.

Galwayguy35

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

I was in the Civil Service. I was paid weekly and then fortnight. After I retired I was put on a monthly pension. Many young civil servants are broke a few days after getting their wages. On a weekly wage they have only a few days until the next pay day. if monthly pay comes in some of them will be broke for weeks at a time. I would be concerned that they would be tempted to commit fraud.

How about they just do like the rest of us and manage their expenditure?
It's not that hard to do is it?