Monthly pay strikes fear.

Mouldy Mary

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

I was in the Civil Service. I was paid weekly and then fortnight. After I retired I was put on a monthly pension. Many young civil servants are broke a few days after getting their wages. On a weekly wage they have only a few days until the next pay day. if monthly pay comes in some of them will be broke for weeks at a time. I would be concerned that they would be tempted to commit fraud.

How about they just do like the rest of us and manage their expenditure?
It's not that hard to do is it?

Some won't be able to, particularly after years on a weekly system.

Stark

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

I would be concerned that they would be tempted to commit fraud.

That meant to be a thinly veiled threat?

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

Some won't be able to, particularly after years on a weekly system.

Unless they're mildly retarded, they'll adapt. It's attitudes like this that give the PS a bad name. "Oh no, minor change, we're too incompetent to cope, better threaten strike".

the_syco

Milk & Honey wrote: »

He also said any move by Government to withhold or freeze increments would be resisted. Increments were not bonuses or productivity payments but “legitimate service-based increases that recognise the skill and experience of staff as they move from a lower starting salary to the full value of the rate for the job”.

So WTF are they?

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

I would be concerned that they would be tempted to commit fraud.

Now THAT sounds like Union talk; treat us nice or we'll take bribes.

hondasam

Milk & Honey wrote: »

That is the only conclusion available on what he has said. He is using the lack of a ballot as a smokescreen. There should be quarterly pay in the Civil service based on performance on what the country can afford.

I assume the HE you are talking about is me.
My point is you cannot say all members are complaining or even that the majority are as there was no ballot.
The union will always come out with this type of stuff, it does not mean all members have asked him to say it. I think the majority of people will be happy just to get paid, weekly, fortnightly or monthly.
It's a non story imo.

What do you mean by quarterly pay based on performance?

westendgirlie

Milk & Honey wrote: »

In an address on the opening day of its annual conference yesterday, union general secretary Eoin Ronayne said......"Try living on €400 a week and then go four weeks without pay.”

How did this man get a top ranking job when he can't even do basic maths???

dj jarvis

Typical union bull **** - i would say many members of said union are red faced with embarrassment over this

the majority of western country's pay a salary - once a month that's it.
FFS - if you started a job and they paid monthly , who would go to the rep and start moaning they want it weekly becasue working out a monthly budget hurts their head ????

and so what if some months have 5 weeks before you get paid , DO A PROPER POXY BUDGET and it will not affect you , if they are doing this , they will flag it WELL in advance - so get your **** sorted - how is this a problem ????

i have managed to pay bills , feed kids and EVERYTHING that a person who gets paid weekly does - so if i can manage it, surly a crack squad of best civil servants on the planet can muster up the cop on to manage this?

if it saves the nation 1c more doing it this way, then they should do it.
god knows portions of the civil service are a complete waste of money anyway

stream line the whole shooting match - keep the best and brightest - pay them WELL , with good benefits to boot ,
and dump the rest - why is it that civil servants are exempt from being sacked for being useless ???

dump the ones who cant manage a poxy monthly budget for starters
the notion of moaning about this change is truly Irish

hondasam

dj jarvis wrote: »

Typical union bull **** - i would say many members of said union are red faced with embarrassment over this

I agree. How wages are paid is not a big issue for most people. It might take a little time to get used to it but it's not the end of the world.

listermint

woodoo wrote: »

I think they could compromise on fortnightly pay. Monthly is too long.

The last time i got paid weekly/forthnightly i worked in a garden centre through college.

Getting paid monthly is what adults do who can manage their finances correctly.

hondasam

listermint wrote: »

Getting paid monthly is what adults do who can manage their finances correctly.

Most people don't choose how they are paid, it's how your employer chooses to pay you.

fasttalkerchat

My name is URL wrote: »

Urge to kill rising.

How do these people manage to dress themselves in the morning? Jesus christ.. it's not harder to budget on a per month basis rather than on a per week one.. it's the same fcuking budget.. just done differently!

I've never been paid weekly so I don't know but I imagine that budgeting monthly would be more difficult because you can't do all the shopping at once. If you are paid weekly you can get the best part of 7 days food on payday and then you don't have to worry about overspending later.
Also more and more people are using pay day loans at crazy interest amounts because they aren't paid enough to have some leeway if they overspend on something. For those people it would be better to be paid less and be paid weekly.

davet82

whats the big deal... so a group of people dont want to be paid monthly and are voicing their objection, why shouldnt they? There is no way in hell there will be a strike over this btw. If it is saving a significant amount of money then there will be no case to argue and will go ahead as planned imo.

xflyer

Maybe they'd like to be paid cash too! Ah the good old days when you got your paypacket.

I haven't been paid weekly since sometime in the nineties. It's time those people joined the rest of us in the 21st century. The reality is that it is actually easier being paid monthly because most bills are monthly or bi monthly. Once you pay them, you know exactly how you stand.

It's actually laughable and pathetic that this should be raised as an issue in this day and age. But then of course these are the people who were still getting the day off for the King's birthday until recently. Every time one of these union dinosaurs open their mouths. It makes the case for root and branch public service reform.

It's a joke!

davet82

xflyer wrote: »

I haven't been paid weekly since sometime in the nineties. It's time those people joined the rest of us in the 21st century. The reality is that it is actually easier being paid monthly because most bills are monthly or bi monthly. Once you pay them, you know exactly how you stand.

It's a joke!

i dont get why it bothers you how somebody gets paid, they're gettin paid one way or the other

RobbieTheRobber

Stupid thread produces expected stupid comments, shocker!

The article this thread was based on never mentions striking over the montly pay, so OP where does your fear come from?


Is it a little voice inside?

That might be the mind-killer.

hondasam

xflyer wrote: »

I haven't been paid weekly since sometime in the nineties. It's time those people joined the rest of us in the 21st century. The reality is that it is actually easier being paid monthly because most bills are monthly or bi monthly. Once you pay them, you know exactly how you stand.

Did you choose how you would be paid or did your employer choose?
I would imagine majority of people get paid weekly, open to correction on that.

mikemac1

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The article this thread was based on never mentions striking over the montly pay, so OP where does your fear come from?


Is it a little voice inside?

That might be the mind-killer.

The OP doesn't have fear, the union members do

Their leader was quoted on it

Eoin Ronayne said the proposal by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to introduce a monthly pay cycle had “struck fear and panic” into the minds of many members.

RobbieTheRobber

mikemac1 wrote: »

The OP doesn't have fear, the union members do

Their leader was quoted on it

The op does have a fear of strike as they titled this thread.

"Monthly pay strikes fear."

So where are they getting the fear of strike from this article?

The comment you refer to is a fear of being able to balance a budget on a monthly salary, no reference there to striking though!

davet82

i think the thread title could be taken as a fear of strike or fear of monthly pay

either way the thread is aload of bollix

mikemac1

The only person mentioning striking is you, not the OP

It's clear enough the title means the members are fearful

Sure look at the next line

The move would have “huge and worrying implications for those who can barely balance a weekly budget”.

Maybe read the title and post again
You are picking up something that nobody else even mentioned

davet82

mikemac1 wrote: »

The only person mentioning striking is you, not the OP

It's clear enough the title means the members are fearful

Sure look at the next line


Maybe read the title and post again
You are picking up something that nobody else even mentioned

my apologies, thread title was a read wrong

anyways who cares how they get paid?

RobbieTheRobber

mikemac1 wrote: »

The only person mentioning striking is you, not the OP

It's clear enough the title means the members are fearful

Sure look at the next line


Maybe read the title and post again
You are picking up something that nobody else even mentioned

Sorry are you trying to say that the Op's title refers to the CPSU members being fearful of choosing to take strike action?

Why would they be fearful of having to make a decision in the future on whether or not to ballot members on whether or not they want strike action?

2ndcoming

The reality of it is that particular union represents people who are earning €400-500 take home a week, the vast majority of whom are working parents with mortgages / school expenses and all the rest. So yeah, when you're 19 and you start in a monthly paid job, "bummer, guess I'll have to get a sub off my parents for a while", obviously if you're 42 with 3 kids and a mortgage you don't have that luxury, so the month they have to get by on their last weekly paid €400 is going to leave them having to borrow or else falling into arrears on existing loans etc, and they will then constantly be a month behind on their repaymentsm, unless they borrow.

Seems like an entirely unnecessary way of putting maybe 30,000+ people into further debt for the sake of a few negligible savings in payroll/HR departments that have had little to do since the recruitment embargo came in in 2009.

davet82

2ndcoming wrote: »

The reality of it is that particular union represents people who are earning €400-500 take home a week, the vast majority of whom are working parents with mortgages / school expenses and all the rest. So yeah, when you're 19 and you start in a monthly paid job, "bummer, guess I'll have to get a sub off my parents for a while", obviously if you're 42 with 3 kids and a mortgage you don't have that luxury, so the month they have to get by on their last weekly paid €400 is going to leave them having to borrow or else falling into arrears on existing loans etc, and they will then constantly be a month behind on their repaymentsm, unless they borrow.

Seems like an entirely unnecessary way of putting maybe 30,000+ people into further debt for the sake of a few negligible savings in payroll/HR departments that have had little to do since the recruitment embargo came in in 2009.

if it does make big savings they should just grin and bare it imo and the HR people/payroll people should be re-deployed then if they are idle

i dont agree with people just bashing ordinary people on an average wage objecting to something they have every right to object to though, that just pisses me off

gazzer

davet82 wrote: »

if it does make big savings they should just grin and bare it imo and the HR people/payroll people should be re-deployed then if they are idle
i dont agree with people just bashing ordinary people on an average wage objecting to something they have every right to object to though, that just pisses me off

Its already happening. Plenty of government departments have merged their payroll divisions and the staff who would have done payroll work have been redeployed to other areas where there is a staff requirement. It happened in the dept I work in. There were 3 staff doing payroll who are now in other areas where they have replaced people who have retired/on maternity leave etc

The aim is to have just the one payroll area for all government departments.

mikemac1

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Sorry are you trying to say that the Op's title refers to the CPSU members being fearful of choosing to take strike action?

I never mentioned strike

The only person talking about strikes is you

davet82

gazzer wrote: »

The aim is to have just the one payroll area for all government departments.

is there any figures on the amount of cash being saved out of curiousity?

xflyer

davet82 wrote: »

i dont get why it bothers you how somebody gets paid, they're gettin paid one way or the other

It doesn't but I can laugh at them for their 'fear' can't I?

hondasam wrote: »

Did you choose how you would be paid or did your employer choose?
I would imagine majority of people get paid weekly, open to correction on that.

I imagine you imagine wrong at least when it comes to proper jobs.

I would imagine most people paid monthly wouldn't go back to weekly. I prefer monthly.

In all seriousness if you're paid weekly you have to put money away every week to pay the mortgage or rent or whatever which means you have less money to hand should you need it. On a monthly salary it's all up front and you know exactly what you have for the rest of the month. Far easier to keep track of.

davet82

xflyer wrote: »

It doesn't but I can laugh at them for their 'fear' can't I?

yes, i'll allow it

hondasam

xflyer wrote: »

I imagine you imagine wrong at least when it comes to proper jobs.

What do you mean proper jobs? do shop workers,factory workers,construction workers etc not get paid weekly?

Sykk

The Unions in this country have way too much power.

What a load of horse shít.

micropig

Poor creatures asking them to budget monthly, don't they realise this will increase their free time as they will only need to budget once a month...They should be giving the government an allowance:D

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The Civil Public and Services Union (CPSU) also warned yesterday of confrontation if the Government moved to reduce allowances to its members............He also said any move by Government to withhold or freeze increments would be resisted. Increments were not bonuses or productivity payments but “legitimate service-based increases that recognise the skill and experience of staff as they move from a lower starting salary to the full value of the rate for the job”.

The union also strenuously objected to a proposal to withhold an increment if the staff member received a rating of two or less. The sides are due to meet at the end of May to discuss the Staff Side (union) response.




Have a rating of zero? don't worry the union is fighting your corner

davet82

micropig wrote: »

Poor creatures asking them to budget monthly, don't they realise this will increase their free time as they will only need to budget once a month...They should be giving the government an allowance:D



The union also strenuously objected to a proposal to withhold an increment if the staff member received a rating of two or less. The sides are due to meet at the end of May to discuss the Staff Side (union) response.




Have a rating of zero? don't worry the union is fighting your corner

i was getting worried about you that there was PS bashing thread and you hadnt shown up :pac:

hondasam

davet82 wrote: »

i was getting worried about you that there was PS bashing thread and you hadnt shown up :pac:

School day for Micropig. He is just out of the classroom.

seamus

2ndcoming wrote: »

so the month they have to get by on their last weekly paid €400 is going to leave them having to borrow or else falling into arrears on existing loans etc, and they will then constantly be a month behind on their repaymentsm, unless they borrow.

In reality these people will be well used to saving money because they will have a significant number of big monthly costs like mortgages and bills.
You'd have to be financially illiterate to live week-to-week on your wages when you're running a household.

This change will be given with at least 6 months, if not a year's notice, plenty of time for someone to get a handle on their budgeting. Yes, some people will be living hand-to-mouth, but this will be a small number who will need assistance during the switchover and no doubt arrangements will be made to allow them take a zero-interest loan from the pension fund to tide them over.

If you're running a weekly payroll for a certain section of your staff and a monthly payroll for the rest of them, then that's five payroll runs you're doing every month.

Amalgamate them into one monthly run and you're saving at least 60% on the cost of payroll because now you're running it once for all employees rather than 3 additional times for a subset of employees.

It's a saving of more than 60% because (for example), having double the number of employees in a payroll run isn't double the effort. Most of the payroll run is done electronically, with staff only intervening to perform spot-checks and manual adjustments (like cash advances).

micropig

davet82 wrote: »

i was getting worried about you that there was PS bashing thread and you hadnt shown up :pac:

They threatened to only give me my allowances monthly, so I had to chain myself somewhere in protest:pac:

2ndcoming

micropig wrote: »

They threatened to only give me my allowances monthly, so I had to chain myself somewhere in protest:pac:

Allowances have nothing to do with this thread, so you should save that material for bashing the Gardai and nurses.

micropig

2ndcoming wrote: »

Allowances have nothing to do with this thread, so you should save that material for bashing the Gardai and nurses.

Rating: zero (& that's with extra bonuses for showing up)


Unions got your back though Jack;)

2ndcoming

micropig wrote: »

Rating: zero (& that's with extra bonuses for showing up)


Unions got your back though Jack;)

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. The lowest PMDS rating is 1 and CPSU members are clerical staff on a basic salary of €400-500 a week take home with no allowances for anything. They get their salary, that's all.

mikemac1

Getting two out of five doesn't deserve an increment though

Anyone who gets that score is an underperformer

They aren't asked to be stars, just meet the average and they failed to get there

micropig

xflyer wrote: »

It doesn't but I can laugh at them for their 'fear' can't I?

The Fear, the fear.....they should hide under their beds

2ndcoming wrote: »

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. The lowest PMDS rating is 1 and CPSU members are clerical staff on a basic salary of €400-500 a week take home with no allowances for anything. They get their salary, that's all.

That's their net salary....how much of it do they earn? €20

mikemac1 wrote: »

Getting two out of five doesn't deserve an increment though

Anyone who gets that score is an underperformer

They aren't asked to be stars, just meet the average and they failed to get there

Not according the CPSU

Do they have the badges with the little stars like McD's?

hondasam

micropig wrote: »

The Fear, the fear.....they should hide under their beds




That's their net salary....how much of it do they earn? €20




Not according the CPSU

Do they have the badges with the little stars like McD's?

Great you are here to ruin another thread, do you never get tired of PS bashing?

micropig

hondasam wrote: »

Great you are here to ruin another thread, do you never get tired of PS bashing?

This thread isn't about me Hondasam, it's about the poor public sector workers who are expected to budget monthly :eek:

Originally Posted by 2ndcoming
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. The lowest PMDS rating is 1 and CPSU members are clerical staff on a basic salary of €400-500 a week take home with no allowances for anything. They get their salary, that's all.

Here's the salary scales

Why do they give different rates if all their members are clerical staff on a basic salary of €400week net...what's that gross?


There has been a 25% increase in benefits they can claim through membership of the union; Financial benefits, Dental benefit, optical benefit, hospital benefit, mortality benefits.............so it's incorrect to say that net salary is all they get

dvpower

micropig wrote: »

There has been a 25% increase in benefits they can claim through membership of the union; Financial benefits, Dental benefit, optical benefit, hospital benefit, mortality benefits.............so it's incorrect to say that net salary is all they get

Those are CPSU benefits - not anything to do with their jobs.

Galwayguy35

2ndcoming wrote: »

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. The lowest PMDS rating is 1 and CPSU members are clerical staff on a basic salary of €400-500 a week take home with no allowances for anything. They get their salary, that's all.

And your point is? All we get in the private sector is our salary as well and those of us who are low paid don't even get €400 take home pay but the difference is we just feel lucky to have a job.

Milk & Honey

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Stupid thread produces expected stupid comments, shocker!

The article this thread was based on never mentions striking over the montly pay, so OP where does your fear come from?


Is it a little voice inside?

That might be the mind-killer.

You should learn to read. There is no comma after "monthly pay" which would be necessary to construe the title with the meaning you are attempting to ascribe to it.

Milk & Honey

2ndcoming wrote: »

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. The lowest PMDS rating is 1 and CPSU members are clerical staff on a basic salary of €400-500 a week take home with no allowances for anything. They get their salary, that's all.

TO: Each Branch Secretary – Attention All Members
Crc: 029/12
Date: February 22nd 2012
Re: Proposals to move to monthly pay

Dear Colleagues

Please bring this Circular to the attention of all your members.

At the most recent General Council meeting it was agreed to set up a sub-group to examine draft proposals to introduce monthly pay in the Civil Service for all grades. Currently COs are paid weekly and SOs fortnightly. We expressed serious concern and opposition to monthly pay. We sought details of the numbers of staff involved and the different pay arrangements in place.

It was agreed a sub-group would review the matter. Nothing has been agreed and the work of the group has yet to commence.

The draft proposals put to the Staff panel are:

“Under the salary payment arrangements to be introduced all such staff will move to a monthly payroll cycle in early 2013. To ease the transition to the new arrangement for the currently paid weekly staff the move will be introduced in two stages as follows:

(i) Stage 1: All currently weekly paid staff will be paid their last weekly payment on Thursday 30th August 2012 for 4 days and receive their first fortnightly payment on Thursday 13th September 2012 for 14 days.

(ii) Stage 2: All fortnightly paid staff (including the weekly paid staff at Stage (i) above) should receive their last fortnightly salary payment on Thursday 28th February 2013 and receive their first monthly salary payment on Friday 29th March 2013.

(iii) All currently weekly paid staff moving to the fortnightly payment cycle on 13 September 2012 will be short of one week’s pay in 2012 as the last fortnightly payment on 20 December 2012 will bring them up to 51 weeks only. To alleviate the financial consequences arising from this adjustment in salary payment arrangements it is proposed to pay such staff the 52nd salary week in advance of 30th August 2012.

(iv) Fortnightly paid staff moving to the monthly payment cycle on 29th March 2013 will be offered a financial advance of a set amount of future salary payment in their last fortnightly payment on 28th February 2013 to assist them in the move to the monthly cycle. This amount of this financial advance will be recouped over the period of the remainder of 2013.

The arrangements will be introduced on the basis that affected staff will continue to avail of the same salary, albeit on a monthly basis, within the salary calendar year and will not be financially disadvantaged by this change”.

It is important to note that the above is a draft proposal and not agreed. Meetings of the sub-group will take place in due course and members will be advised of progress, if any, as it is made.

Yours sincerely

Gumbo

So, where does it mention strike?...nowhere
Typical sh1t article....

Warper

Until the Govt grow a pair and tackle the PS head-on, nothing will change. Everyone knows that there are a lot of people that do close to nothing in the PS and do the dog in respect of sick-leave and hours worked and i work in the PS so i know what im talking about. Granted there are a lot of good workers in the PS but the problem is nothing can be done to people who dont want to work. Cant get sacked so what is the deterrent. Get stick of a manager and you can claim harrassment. Its a joke of a situation.

hondasam

@ milk & Honey Why are you posting that ? what does it mean?

@ warper, you must have seen some changes and they can get sacked now.

Gumbo

Warper wrote: »

Until the Govt grow a pair and tackle the PS head-on, nothing will change. Everyone knows that there are a lot of people that do close to nothing in the PS and do the dog in respect of sick-leave and hours worked and i work in the PS so i know what im talking about. Granted there are a lot of good workers in the PS but the problem is nothing can be done to people who dont want to work. Cant get sacked so what is the deterrent. Get stick of a manager and you can claim harrassment. Its a joke of a situation.

your one of the good ones, yeah?