Eng-er-land Euro2012 squad

kronsington

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Is this for real ?

http://twitpic.com/9lpr0n

That surely can't be real. If it is, he's even more of a plank than first thought

Dempsey

Looks like Rio and England are done!

yomtea98

Lampard and Gerrard should not start together.One or the other.

Paul Tergat

adox wrote: »

I`ve heard it all now. They are in no way similar as players.

Was the statement in relation to Welbeck?

kitakyushu

http://footballandsocialmedia.com/twitter/congratulations-to-rio-ferdinand/

Blatter

Well if it is real it's not on Rio's actual twitter page.

I can't believe he'd be that much of a classless plank though.

adox

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Was the statement in relation to Welbeck?

Yep.

Red Crow

Foster
Richards Ferdinand Smalling Taylor
Carrick Wilshere Britton
Lennon Crouch Sturridge

OBVIOUSLY Wilshere is injured. But man that is a crap selection from Hodgson.

MagicMarker

Who does Rio think he is, Tevez? :pac:

Aidric

Gotta be a shop job. I can't see Rio stooping that low.

Paully D

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Is this for real ?

http://twitpic.com/9lpr0n

Can certainly understand his frustrations.

His last chance in a major tournament taken away from him because he doesn't want to associate with someone who racially abused his brother, and the manager making an excuse that he hasn't played enough for England while at the same time appointing a captain who has played 33 minutes in the last 19 months.

Ormus

I think all these arguments are hilarious.

I woulda picked Micah Richards myself, he looked good to me at the start of this season, but he did get injured a few times, then got left out a few times when fit. People are talking like Hodgson must be senile to leave him out.

People cream themselves over Leon Britton cos he came up in some stat earlier this season as having a better pass completion rate than Xavi. I refuse to believe anyone here thought anything more than he was a nice tidy midfielder just up from the Championship, before they saw that stat.

Crouch has a good international record, Holt scored a few this season, Carroll is in form, there is a case for several average strikers, Hodgson chose the ones he liked. There were no outstanding candidates.

It's a boring squad selection. Not awful. Not great. It was never gonna be great.

Do we really care all that much? I just want England to stay in it til they get a whupping from Trap's army.

Paul Tergat

adox wrote: »

Yep.

Candidate for worst post of the year in that case. Brainless statement

kronsington

Ormus wrote: »

I think all these arguments are hilarious.

I woulda picked Micah Richards myself, he looked good to me at the start of this season, but he did get injured a few times, then got left out a few times when fit. People are talking like Hodgson must be senile to leave him out.

People cream themselves over Leon Britton cos he came up in some stat earlier this season as having a better pass completion rate than Xavi. I refuse to believe anyone here thought anything more than he was a nice tidy midfielder just up from the Championship, before they saw that stat.

Crouch has a good international record, Holt scored a few this season, Carroll is in form, there is a case for several average strikers, Hodgson chose the ones he liked. There were no outstanding candidates.

It's a boring squad selection. Not awful. Not great. It was never gonna be great.

Do we really care all that much? I just want England to stay in it til they get a whupping from Trap's army.

It's a topic of conversation for the afternoon, that's it. We're simply interested in who they picked for the squad and how they might line up. If you find that hilarious for some reason, then good for you

G.K.

Ormus wrote: »

I think all these arguments are hilarious.

I woulda picked Micah Richards myself, he looked good to me at the start of this season, but he did get injured a few times, then got left out a few times when fit. People are talking like Hodgson must be senile to leave him out.

People cream themselves over Leon Britton cos he came up in some stat earlier this season as having a better pass completion rate than Xavi. I refuse to believe anyone here thought anything more than he was a nice tidy midfielder just up from the Championship, before they saw that stat.

Crouch has a good international record, Holt scored a few this season, Carroll is in form, there is a case for several average strikers, Hodgson chose the ones he liked. There were no outstanding candidates.

It's a boring squad selection. Not awful. Not great. It was never gonna be great.

Do we really care all that much? I just want England to stay in it til they get a whupping from Trap's army.

That's why I rate him is it? Good to know you can decide my thoughts for me.

It's clearly nothing to do with the reason Pro. F and I have both said that we like him at all...

pistolpetes11

I would give Ferdinand a lot more credit than that , and think this might be a shop job , doesn't seem to have that type of malice in him .

Ormus

Eli Manning wrote: »

Foster
Richards Ferdinand Smalling Taylor
Carrick Wilshere Britton
Lennon Crouch Sturridge

OBVIOUSLY Wilshere is injured. But man that is a crap selection from Hodgson.

That is one awful football team. 3 deep midfielders who don't run. One immobile striker who can't shoot. Or is that 3 strikers? Is that Aaron Lennon playing up front? He also can't shoot, and has never ever played up front.

Defence looks OK. Not sure how you can blame Hodgson for not bringing Smalling, or what the point is of him and Wilshere in that team if its to show how crap Hodgson's selection was.

wonderfullife

There's 1 glaring point with this England squad - The Premier League is arguably the best league in world football but it's so heavily dependent on foreign talent. This is one of the most average looking England squads i have ever seen.

Hart - Top class performer.
Green - Ok goalkeeper in championship side.
Ruddy - Journeyman goalkeeper done ok this season.

Baines - good fullback in a mid-table side.
Cahill - Potential but not pulled up many trees with Chelsea yet.
Cole - Proven top class full back.
Johnson - Inconsistent, not up to international standard.
Jones - Overhyped, not performed to expectations.
Lescott - Solid season in championship winning side.
Terry - top class defender, age catching up and liability at times.

Barry - Done ok in City title winning campaign. Nothing more than ok this year.
Downing - Poor form this season, over-rated.
Gerrard - Wildly inconsistent, liable to go missing, at peak brilliant.
Lampard - Rejuvenated recently, top class career.
Milner - very good this season, strong work ethic and good delivery.
Oxlade-Chamberlain - Bundles of potential, not a starter for Arsenal.
Parker - Injury doubts but class Defensive Mid.
Walcott - Pace to burn, end product hit n miss. More miss than hit.
Young - Brilliant start and end to season, in the middle anonymous.

Carroll - Utter failure all season barring couple of performances lately.
Defoe - Spurs bench warmer, still lethal in front of goal.
Rooney - Top class, suspended 2 games.
Welbeck - Done ok in patches but international standard? jury out.


Standby -

Jack Butland - Had to google him. Cheltenham Town keeper most of 2012.
Jagielka - Good solid defender, just short of international class.
Henderson - How he makes standby is beyond me, piss poor all year.
Adam Johnson - Bench warmer for City , shows flashes.
Sturridge - Good start to year, indifferent since then.



In terms of the over-used "World Class", England have 1 definite World Class Player - Rooney. They have 3 where a case can be argued - Joe Hart, Ashley Cole and John Terry. Then a batch of decent ageing players a la Stevie G, Lampard, Parker, Defoe. Mix in a couple of potential top players like The Ox........

It's just a piss poor squad. They may very well do a Greece and win the tournament but the smart money is on a swift exit from the tournament.

Liam O

Decided to try it

---

Forster

---

Richards--Ferdinand--Jagielka--Gibbs

---

Carrick

---

---

Britton--Osman

---

--Sturridge

---

Johnson

---

Holt/Hooper

---

maybe not good enough to beat England but would give them a game, there's probably a few I'm forgetting too.

Ormus

kronsington wrote: »

It's a topic of conversation for the afternoon, that's it. We're simply interested in who they picked for the squad and how they might line up. If you find that hilarious for some reason, then good for you

I was only referring to people arguing and saying that Hodgson is nuts or dumb or whatever for picking one average player over another. I do find that hilarious.

Ormus

G.K. wrote: »

That's why I rate him is it? Good to know you can decide my thoughts for me.

It's clearly nothing to do with the reason Pro. F and I have both said that we like him at all...

I think we both know it is.

Ormus

Liam O wrote: »

Decided to try it

---

Forster

---

Richards--Ferdinand--Jagielka--Gibbs

---

Carrick

---

---

Britton--Osman

---

--Sturridge

---

Johnson

---

Holt/Hooper

---

maybe not good enough to beat England but would give them a game, there's probably a few I'm forgetting too.

Not a bad looking team, I would have major concerns over the form of Sturridge and Johnson though.

And Leon Britton is not up to that level. Nor is Hooper. Holt could probably do a job.

Pro. F

Ormus wrote: »

People cream themselves over Leon Britton cos he came up in some stat earlier this season as having a better pass completion rate than Xavi. I refuse to believe anyone here thought anything more than he was a nice tidy midfielder just up from the Championship, before they saw that stat.

Carrick often rates well in that stat. It is a fairly useless way of judging a player.

You can watch Britton though and see that he has the ability to receive the ball from his defence when he's being closed down by the opposition, turn on it and pick out a good pass to a teammate in space. You can see that he has a reliable first touch that he uses to make space for himself and so take opposition players out of the game. You can also watch all the central midfielders that Roy picked and see that they don't have this ability.

So yes Britton is just a nice tidy midfielder, the type of player that most of the big nations have an abundance of. Being that and nothing more sets him head and shoulders above all of Barry, Parker, Lampard, Gerrard, Milner, Jones, Henderson and Carrick. None of them can be described as tidy players.

Ormus

Forget this argument, "King Kenny" is gone!

Beefy78

Paully D wrote: »

Can certainly understand his frustrations.

His last chance in a major tournament taken away from him because he doesn't want to associate with someone who racially abused his brother, and the manager making an excuse that he hasn't played enough for England while at the same time appointing a captain who has played 33 minutes in the last 19 months.

The 'one game in a year' comment is to save Hodgson explaining that the real reason is because Rio is a shell of the player he was three years ago.

At their peak there's no way that any manager would have picked Terry over Ferdinand. Neither are at their peak now but Rio is showing that more than Terry is.

GymJim

Eli Manning wrote: »

Foster

Richards Ferdinand Smalling Taylor
Carrick Wilshere Britton
Lennon Crouch Sturridge

OBVIOUSLY Wilshere is injured. But man that is a crap selection from Hodgson.

As in the Welsh left-back? Can't believe he left Bale and Giggs out aswell :pac:

Ormus

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick often rates well in that stat. It is a fairly useless way of judging a player.

You can watch Britton though and see that he has the ability to receive the ball from his defence when he's being closed down by the opposition, turn on it and pick out a good pass to a teammate in space. You can see that he has a reliable first touch that he uses to make space for himself and so take opposition players out of the game. You can also watch all the central midfielders that Roy picked and see that they don't have this ability.

So yes Britton is just a nice tidy midfielder, the type of player that most of the big nations have an abundance of. Being that and nothing more sets him head and shoulders above all of Barry, Parker, Lampard, Gerrard, Milner, Jones, Henderson and Carrick. None of them can be described as tidy players.

He's done well this season, he is a nice natural midfielder who plays nice football. Himself and Joe Allen did well this season, in the same way that Charlie Adam and David Vaughan did for Blackpool the season before. I'm not saying its a foolproof way of measuring a footballer, but the fact that he is almost 30 years old is instructive. He is not up to the level of international football.

Anwyay its just my opinion. Lets agree to disagree.

cgpg5

GymJim wrote: »

As in the Welsh left-back?

Last I checked Ryan taylor's English??

Ormus

cgpg5 wrote: »

Last I checked Ryan taylor's English??

He is English, slow, dodgy defender, peach of a left foot. The English Ian Harte.

Paul Tergat

Ormus wrote: »

He is English, slow, dodgy defender, peach of a left foot. The English Ian Harte.

is he not right footed?

cgpg5

Ormus wrote: »

He is English, slow, dodgy defender, peach of a left foot. The English Ian Harte.

Wouldn't pick him in a million years. He's actually right footed though

GymJim

cgpg5 wrote: »

Last I checked Ryan taylor's English??

And not a left-back

G.K.

Ormus wrote: »

He's done well this season, he is a nice natural midfielder who plays nice football. Himself and Joe Allen did well this season, in the same way that Charlie Adam and David Vaughan did for Blackpool the season before. I'm not saying its a foolproof way of measuring a footballer, but the fact that he is almost 30 years old is instructive. He is not up to the level of international football.

Anwyay its just my opinion. Lets agree to disagree.

The Britton-Allen relationship is nothing like the Adam-Vaughan one.

Firstly, we should be talking about Britton-Allen-Sigurdsson and a Vaughan-Adam-Grandin relationships.

The difference was that due to Adam's shocking defensive ability, he had the other 2 doing all the defensive work and leaving him to do all the flashy holywood passing that gave him the plaudits. He also took all the corners/whatever. Vaughan is a much superior midfielder, and Liverpool would have been far better off with him.

Birtton, Allen and Sig all do a hell of a lot of work attacking and defending, though Britton's primary role is defending and Sig's is attacking. They all are flexible and interchangeable and have great work ethics. Adam at Blackpool was a glory hog.

Also I don't undertand you point whihc I emboldened. Expand?

kronsington

england captain's club have no manager. not ideal to say the least..

Beefy78

Britton is a lovely little footballer. I prefer Gower at Swansea personally but then I'm hopelessly biased when it comes to the G-Man.

I think Britton would thrive in a team built around the style of play that he excells at. Swansea have a number of players who can play that way. At a faster tempo - like England play - when the game is around attacking pace down the flanks and getting the ball to Rooney he'd be out of place. Plus he'd be massively out of place physically.

He's a player for a style of play that hopefully England will use more in the future. He's not suited at all for any England squad of this generation.

EDIT - I know Swansea have loads of pace down the flanks as well, but that's not not how they primarily set themselves out to attack.

GymJim

kronsington wrote: »

england captain's club have no manager. not ideal to say the least..

Why does that make an ounce of difference?

MagicMarker

kronsington wrote: »

england captain's club have no manager. not ideal to say the least..

Even if that were true, what does it matter?

kitakyushu

kronsington wrote: »

england captain's club have no manager. not ideal to say the least..

France got to the world cup final in '06 with no manager.

Ormus

G.K. wrote: »

The Britton-Allen relationship is nothing like the Adam-Vaughan one.

Firstly, we should be talking about Britton-Allen-Sigurdsson and a Vaughan-Adam-Grandin relationships.

The difference was that due to Adam's shocking defensive ability, he had the other 2 doing all the defensive work and leaving him to do all the flashy holywood passing that gave him the plaudits. He also took all the corners/whatever. Vaughan is a much superior midfielder, and Liverpool would have been far better off with him.

Birtton, Allen and Sig all do a hell of a lot of work attacking and defending, though Britton's primary role is defending and Sig's is attacking. They all are flexible and interchangeable and have great work ethics. Adam at Blackpool was a glory hog.

Also I don't undertand you point whihc I emboldened. Expand?

I wasn't claiming that Britton and Allen had the exact same roles as Adam and Vaughan, only that they have come up from the Championship and acquitted themselves well, without that meaning that they are international class. Grandin was used on and off. Sigurdsson only joined in January. Does Britton really do a hell of a lot of work attacking? Any time I've seen him he has been in the Andrea Pirlo role on the centre circle.

The emboldened point was to ask the question that, if he is truly international class, why was this not noticed earlier? You can possibly cite me some examples of players who have blossomed late, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

aidan24326

Anyone else think Peter Crouch is a bit hard done by?

He has a proven track record with England, 22 goals in 42 games being a very respectable record at international level.

Stewart Downing is very lucky to be included imo. Only there because they're so desperately short of left sided options. All in all it's a very uninspiring England squad.

The over-reliance of PL clubs on foreign players really hits home when you see the lack of genuine quality Hodgson had to choose from. The likes of Carroll, Downing, Oxlade and Welbeck wouldn't get within a mile of the Spain, Germany or Holland squads (would Downing even get in the Ireland squad right now? - serious question).

G.K.

Beefy78 wrote: »

Britton is a lovely little footballer. I prefer Gower at Swansea personally but then I'm hopelessly biased when it comes to the G-Man.

I think Britton would thrive in a team built around the style of play that he excells at. Swansea have a number of players who can play that way. At a faster tempo - like England play - when the game is around attacking pace down the flanks and getting the ball to Rooney he'd be out of place. Plus he'd be massively out of place physically.

He's a player for a style of play that hopefully England will use more in the future. He's not suited at all for any England squad of this generation.

EDIT - I know Swansea have loads of pace down the flanks as well, but that's not not how they primarily set themselves out to attack.

Why?

OctavarIan

Beefy78 wrote: »

The 'one game in a year' comment is to save Hodgson explaining that the real reason is because Rio is a shell of the player he was three years ago.

At their peak there's no way that any manager would have picked Terry over Ferdinand. Neither are at their peak now but Rio is showing that more than Terry is.

Ferdinand has actually had a very solid season. He may be more injury prone and lack a yard of pace but he has adapted his game and is nowhere near a 'shell of the player' he was three years ago.

He wasn't picked for off-the-pitch reasons, simple as that.

kitakyushu

aidan24326 wrote: »

Anyone else think Peter Crouch is a bit hard done by?

He has a proven track record with England, 22 goals in 42 games being a very respectable record at international level.

Stewart Downing is very lucky to be included imo. Only there because they're so desperately short of left sided options. All in all it's a very uninspiring England squad.

The over-reliance of PL clubs on foreign players really hits home when you see the lack of genuine quality Hodgson had to choose from. The likes of Carroll, Downing, Oxlade and Welbeck wouldn't get within a mile of the Spain, Germany or Holland squads (would Downing even get in the Ireland squad right now? - serious question).

Crouch has a good record but he does seem to get a disproportionate amount of them vs weak opposition. Tho that could be as much to do with him not getting picked for the crunch games as much as his inability to score against them.

Downing would get in the Ireland team. For one thing if he was Irish he wouldn't have had half the hype he gets/got and would probably still be at Villa now and doing a better job than he has at Liverpool this season.

Beefy78

G.K. wrote: »

Why?

Because he's tiny. And I know that Leo Messi is tiny but in the middle of a midfield I think he lacks the bite to really impose himself. I think he'd be bullied out of games.

England don't have a lot of ball winners, especially if Parker isn't fit, and they clearly lack the technical ability to retain possession of the ball for long so they need to be able to get amongst opponents and win the ball back. I'd be interested in seeing the stats to see if Britton has won many tackles this season and am happy to be corrected if he has but he's another lad who I watched throughout the divisions (as far back as a pre-season friendly when he was on trial at Southend at the start of the last decade) and he's never been the type of player to play like that.

Dempsey

Downing now has 1 assist for the season...:pac:

Pro. F

Ormus wrote: »

He's done well this season, he is a nice natural midfielder who plays nice football. Himself and Joe Allen did well this season, in the same way that Charlie Adam and David Vaughan did for Blackpool the season before. I'm not saying its a foolproof way of measuring a footballer, but the fact that he is almost 30 years old is instructive. He is not up to the level of international football.

Anwyay its just my opinion. Lets agree to disagree.

Britton is the polar opposite to Adam. G.K. summarized it better than I could.

The fact that he is nearly 30 and has gone unnoticed in England is indicative of the English footballing philosophy, not his abilities. They don't rate tidy players and they never have. Their almost continuous history of under achievement over the last hundred years shows that philosophy doesn't work.

You are suffering under the same illusions as the English footballing establishment. Hence why Britton doesn't have a chance of getting a call up and hence why you think that's the way it should be.

Personally, given their terrible track record, I would bet on my understanding of football and evaluation of players over the English general consensus every day of the week.

Watch the English midfielders struggle desperately in possession again this summer, like they always do. They are not tidy players, they will prove that in the tournament. Then ask yourself the question - are tidy players important in international football?

Reganio 2

Dempsey wrote: »

Downing now has 1 assist for the season...:pac:

The Titanic got sunk by lettuce.... Old jokes are the best.

Beefy78

Pro. F wrote: »

Britton is the polar opposite to Adam. G.K. summarized it better than I could.

The fact that he is nearly 30 and has gone unnoticed in England is indicative of the English footballing philosophy, not his abilities. They don't rate tidy players and they never have. Their almost continuous history of under achievement over the last hundred years shows that philosophy doesn't work.

You are suffering under the same illusions as the English footballing establishment. Hence why Britton doesn't have a chance of getting a call up and hence why you think that's the way it should be.

Personally, given their terrible track record, I would bet on my understanding of football and evaluation of players over the English general consensus every day of the week.

Watch the English midfielders struggle desperately in possession again this summer, like they always do. They are not tidy players, they will prove that in the tournament. Then ask yourself the question - are tidy players important in international football?

But you'd need a team of tidy players. You can't just have one. Xavi wouldn't thrive in the Stoke midfield. He'd look completely lost.

Pro. F

Beefy78 wrote: »

But you'd need a team of tidy players. You can't just have one. Xavi wouldn't thrive in the Stoke midfield. He'd look completely lost.

You can of course just have one. It's not ideal but it is better than none.

Scholes does well at United beside Carrick. Modric does well at Spurs beside Parker. Alonso used to do well at Liverpool beside Mascherano (who has since vastly improved his ball skills at Barca, but was very poor on the ball back then) and behind Gerrard and Kurt.

One tidy player amongst a load of athletes is far more of benefit than one extra athlete.


With regards to size, how is this argument still made? Look at Scholes, Xavi, Modric, Pirlo (to a lesser extant) to name just four. Non physically imposing central midfielders who are good on the ball have proven time and again they can dominate the game. If you want to see central midfielders getting bullied watch any English national team full of big clumsy athletes chasing shadows. It's chastening stuff.

The fact is, a team of athletes does not work. England have selected like that for years. They have proven categorically that that strategy doesn't work.

Ormus wrote: »

Does Britton really do a hell of a lot of work attacking? Any time I've seen him he has been in the Andrea Pirlo role on the centre circle.

Pirlo is one of the most attacking central midfielders in the world. In the teams he plays for every attack is started by him.

Tigerandahalf

Oranage2 wrote: »

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I havent read all the pages but England team like this?
Hart
Cole Cahill Terry Jones
Gerrard Lampard Downing Chamberlain??
Carrol/Wellbeck Rooney

I am sure I have left someone out.
4 4 2 seems definite though.

I'd guess

..............Hart
Johnson...Lescott..JT...Cole

............Barry
....Gerrard.....Lampard
Walcott...................Young
............Rooney

I didnt know the squad and I knew I had players left out. Barry has a poor touch and is v slow. G Johnson is a v poor defender especially from crosses where he always loses his man.
Hart
Jones Terry ? Cole.
Lescott is dodgy. Poor header against Man U. Terry is v slow. Cahill doesnt look a great reader of the game. Cole is prob the best left back in the world.
Gerrard has been poor of late and his legs look to be gone. But he is captain so he will start. Parker should start.
Young Gerard Parker Walcott
Rooney/Carrol Wellbeck.