Eng-er-land Euro2012 squad

aidan24326

kitakyushu wrote: »

Crouch has a good record but he does seem to get a disproportionate amount of them vs weak opposition. Tho that could be as much to do with him not getting picked for the crunch games as much as his inability to score against them.

Downing would get in the Ireland team. For one thing if he was Irish he wouldn't have had half the hype he gets/got and would probably still be at Villa now and doing a better job than he has at Liverpool this season.

He'd get in the squad alright but I don't think he'd be in the team. Agreed about the hype though and him being over-rated (not his fault of course) It's always been a problem that English players have to deal with. You wonder when it will finally dawn on the English that the only reason the Prem League is so strong is because of the expensive foreign imports and that their own homegrown players aren't generally very good with only a few notable exceptions.

carlcon

They look light at the back to me. I would have had another defender in place of Downing.

*Snip**Didn't know Smalling was that badly injured**Snip*

As a football fan, I'm happy to see Carroll given the chance, but if I was English I'd be pissed he's in ahead of Crouch.

Jax Teller

https://twitter.com/rioferdy5/statuses/202812442739359745

Absolutely loved playing for england....to say I'm gutted is an understatement of the highest order...


Tweet from Rio

Jax Teller

carlcon wrote: »

They look light at the back to me. I would have had another defender in place of Downing.

Also surprised that Smalling didn't even make the stand-by list, especially since Jones made the main squad. That will hurt him.

As a football fan, I'm happy to see Carroll given the chance, but if I was English I'd be pissed he's in ahead of Crouch.

Smalling is out Injured

jive

OctavarIan wrote: »

He wasn't picked for off-the-pitch reasons, simple as that.

Well essentially Terry was preferred and given the situation both couldn't go. I don't think it's surprising either. Everyone knew only one player was going and it was always going to be Terry ahead of Rio.

Chamberlain is a funny one, IMO. Hasn't even played much for Arsenal this year. I personally think he's a good lad to have off the bench though, he's inexperienced and relatively fearless. It will be a good experience for him and he will probably be a long serving member of the English team in the years to come so it's good from a longevity point of view even if he doesn't necessarily deserve his spot based on merit this year.

Beefy78

Pro. F wrote: »

With regards to size, how is this argument still made? Look at Scholes, Xavi, Modric, Pirlo (to a lesser extant) to name just four. Non physically imposing central midfielders who are good on the ball have proven time and again they can dominate the game.

But Leon Britton is at least two inches shorter than each of those. Modric towers over him and weighs a hell of a lot more. I understand the sentiment but I think you understate how Britton's lack of physicality is a factor.

Jimmy Iovine

Beefy78 wrote: »

But Leon Britton is at least two inches shorter than each of those. Modric towers over him and weighs a hell of a lot more. I understand the sentiment but I think you understate how Britton's lack of physicality is a factor.

Britton is 5'6 and 10 stone.

Modric is a whopping 5'8 and 10 stone 2 pounds.

The difference in weight between Britton and Modric is negligible. The difference in height is as irrelevant in my opinion. Neither of them will ever win a header unless they are playing against their children/

Thefirestarter

stovelid wrote: »

He has a gay name.

Your contribution is most welcome to this topic.

Beefy78

5'6 in heels maybe.

recylingbin

Just what does Glenn Johnson have to do to get dropped?

Also, Wellbeck instead of Sturridge is a poor decision.

Dozen Wicked Words

Would have liked to see Hooper get a game in a friendly. He has banged them in for Celtic, and while the league standard may not be great, there would have been no harm giving him the run. Especially with English strikers who are actually scoring goals being thin on the ground.

recylingbin

dooferoaks wrote: »

Would have liked to see Hooper get a game in a friendly. He has banged them in for Celtic, and while the league standard may not be great, there would have been no harm giving him the run. Especially with English strikers who are actually scoring goals being thin on the ground.

obligatory 'I could bang them in, in Scotland' post.

jive

recylingbin wrote: »

Just what does Glenn Johnson have to do to get dropped?

Also, Wellbeck instead of Sturridge is a poor decision.

I think Sturridge is a better player too. HOWEVER, I think Wellbeck deserves to go because Sturridge is such a greedy little shít, he never ever passes and I get irritated just watching it, imagine playing with him. Sturridge is more versatile though but I reckon he has Wellbeck there in case he needs a poacher

G.K.

Welbeck is probably more versatile. I'd have him as a winger over Sturridge any day of the week.

Vanbis

What a stupid reason Roy gives for leaving Ferdinand out of the squad.

"he's only played once for England in the last year" :eek:. How many games has he played for Manutd this season? I can bet he's played more then Terry and Cahil have all season.

jive

G.K. wrote: »

Welbeck is probably more versatile. I'd have him as a winger over Sturridge any day of the week.

Jaysus I disagree there. Welbeck is being shaped into Andy Cole V2. Sturridge has been played in all sorts of positions for Chelsea, did particularly well out on the wing. He's too greedy though, takes absurd shots when there are better options available. I'd say Sturridge has been noticeably better than Welbeck this year, but that's just one mans opinion. Like I said, I'd take Welbeck ahead of Sturridge but I think Sturridge is a better player, he just needs to learn how to pass a football on occasion.

Corholio

G.K. wrote: »

Welbeck is probably more versatile. I'd have him as a winger over Sturridge any day of the week.

A winger?? Sturridge is quicker and more skillful, saying that I wouldn't have either as a winger, if that's what he's gonna do with Welbeck than he should have brought Lennon instead. Welbeck is an honest player but is a very poor finisher.

recylingbin

Vanbis wrote: »

What a stupid reason Roy gives for leaving Ferdinand out of the squad.

"he's only played once for England in the last year" :eek:. How many games has he played for Manutd this season? I can bet he's played more then Terry and Cahil have all season.

True. However if it was to be one or the other (terry or himself), I think 99 out of 100 managers would take Terry.

Pro. F

Beefy78 wrote: »

But Leon Britton is at least two inches shorter than each of those. Modric towers over him and weighs a hell of a lot more. I understand the sentiment but I think you understate how Britton's lack of physicality is a factor.

I think you under estimate how the lack of skill in all the other CMs you would pick is a factor.

Modric is only two inches taller. Scholes is only one inch taller. Xavi is only one inch taller. Even a defensive beast like Mascherano is only 5'9''. Really, unless a player was so short as to have trouble moving around the pitch it's not an issue.

Pro. F

Corholio wrote: »

A winger?? Sturridge is quicker and more skillful,

True, but Welbeck uses what he has much better. Sturridge doesn't pass when he should so he's rubbish at linking up the play. Welbeck is excellent at linking up the play and so is useful when he's on the wing, or when playing behind the striker.

I wouldn't take Welbeck myself, he's too goal shy yet imo, but if you're following the versatile strategy then Welbeck makes sense.

G.K.

jive wrote: »

Jaysus I disagree there. Welbeck is being shaped into Andy Cole V2. Sturridge has been played in all sorts of positions for Chelsea, did particularly well out on the wing. He's too greedy though, takes absurd shots when there are better options available. I'd say Sturridge has been noticeably better than Welbeck this year, but that's just one mans opinion. Like I said, I'd take Welbeck ahead of Sturridge but I think Sturridge is a better player, he just needs to learn how to pass a football on occasion.

You are wrong there. Sturridge has been used almost exclusively on the right flank. Welbeck, on the other hand, as well as his ususal 'leading-the-line' role, has played as a wide forward for both United and Sunderland quite often and may have been used as a deeper forward with Hernandez and on his own up top, though I couldn't vouch for those two.

Noticeably better? He's scored 2 fewer goals and his build-up play has been fantastic, as opposed to Sturridge who's been largely greedy.

Blatter

Welbeck has played 4 positions for United this season and done pretty well in all of them. Left midfield, right midfield, centre forward and in the hole, where he sometimes rotates with Rooney during a game.

If Welbeck added more goals to his game, he'd be fairly close to being the complete forward player.

G.K.

Pro. F wrote: »

True, but Welbeck uses what he has much better. Sturridge doesn't pass when he should so he's rubbish at linking up the play. Welbeck is excellent at linking up the play and so is useful when he's on the wing, or when playing behind the striker.

I wouldn't take Welbeck myself, he's too goal shy yet imo, but if you're following the versatile strategy then Welbeck makes sense.

Welbeck is already Eng's 2nd best forward at a canter. For his linking-up-play and relationship with the other United players alone I'd take him. His scoring shouldn't hold him back. He could even play the 'Heskey Role' that the likes of Guivarc'h and Torres have done if his finishing really wasn't up to it.

PeterTwo

Pro. F wrote: »

True, but Welbeck uses what he has much better. Sturridge doesn't pass when he should so he's rubbish at linking up the play. Welbeck is excellent at linking up the play and so is useful when he's on the wing, or when playing behind the striker.

I wouldn't take Welbeck myself, he's too goal shy yet imo, but if you're following the versatile strategy then Welbeck makes sense.

I'm a Chelsea fan and even I think Roy made the right choice. Sturridge has been very, very poor as of late, Kalou's keeping him out of the team ffs.

jive

G.K. wrote: »

You are wrong there. Sturridge has been used almost exclusively on the right flank. Welbeck, on the other hand, as well as his ususal 'leading-the-line' role, has played as a wide forward for both United and Sunderland quite often and may have been used as a deeper forward with Hernandez and on his own up top, though I couldn't vouch for those two.

Noticeably better? He's scored 2 fewer goals and his build-up play has been fantastic, as opposed to Sturridge who's been largely greedy.

I disagree and I'm not wrong as it's a matter of opinion - stats are the only facts here and they suggest that Sturridge has had a better season. Sturridge has been in numerous positions this year and despite starting on the flank he has often ended up playing off the front man and quite often under AVB basically ended up having to lead the front line due to the ill form of Drogba/Torres.

Welbeck has also had less assists than Sturridge but stats don't tell the whole story. Sturridge was basically the only man firing for Chelsea for the first half of the season and pretty much, along with Mata, carried the Chelsea attack. Sturridge, despite his greediness which is obvious to anyone who watches him for 10 minutes, has been the better player for me. He stood up for Chelsea when he was needed and the same can't be said for Welbeck IMO.

Another factor to take into account is that Rooney plays with Welbeck at Utd. Rooney will obviously start after the 2 group games he's suspended for and if it was a toss up between Welbeck and Sturridge (which it probably wasn't because Sturridge would be too wasteful at international level) then you'd obviously opt for Welbeck. I'm of the opinion that Sturridge is a better player than Welbeck, but he needs to stop being so greedy. I still think Sturridge would be more of a threat at Euro2012 than Welbeck will be but Welbeck is a 'safer' choice so to speak. To be frank about it, neither are going to do much damage at international level anyway (this year).

G.K.

I only meant you were wong in regard to Sturridge being used in more positions.

The rest is opinion based.

He couldn't bring Ferdinand AND Terry. It would be disasterous.

I'd say Ferdinand couldn't stand to be in the same room with Terry.

eagle eye

Theres a lot of picks you could argue with and say that somebody else should be going instead of who is but for me the one that I really think is a mistake is not taking Grant Holt. He has scored more goals this season than Carroll, Defoe or Wellbeck. He is a more complete player than any of them too.

I think Michael Carrick not even making the reserve list is crazy. He has been excellent for United this season.

I fancy Hodgson will go with something like this.

---

Hart
Johnson

---

Terry

---

Lescott

---

Cole

---

Gerrard

---

Lampard/Parker

---

Barry
Walcott

---

Carroll

---

Young

DM_7

rarnes1 wrote: »

He couldn't bring Ferdinand AND Terry. It would be disasterous.

I'd say Ferdinand couldn't stand to be in the same room with Terry.

Every chance Rio would prefer to play for England and be in the same room as Terry than sit at home not involved in the Euro's.

Pro. F

G.K. wrote: »

Welbeck is already Eng's 2nd best forward at a canter. For his linking-up-play and relationship with the other United players alone I'd take him. His scoring shouldn't hold him back. He could even play the 'Heskey Role' that the likes of Guivarc'h and Torres have done if his finishing really wasn't up to it.

I don't really rate that role tbh. I hate the idea of a centre forward you can't trust in front of goal and at the moment I don't trust Welbeck. I've defended his finishing a lot during this season, but I still think he is going through one of those patches that young players do. He needs time and if I was manager there's no way I'd gamble on him to start as CF in this tournament. I do rate his link up play as better than any of the other options, but that's not enough for me.

If you're just looking at quality of CF, as opposed to versatility, I think it's a very tough call between all of them.

DM-ICE

DM-ICE wrote: »

Every chance Rio would prefer to play for England and be in the same room as Terry than sit at home not involved in the Euro's.

Yeah but for a manager it would be far from ideal. Terry awaiting trial for racially abusing his brother.

DM_7

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yeah but for a manager it would be far from ideal. Terry awaiting trial for racially abusing his brother.

True!

I think it would be terrible if Rio missed out only because of the trial. Especially when he is capable of putting it aside.

Corholio

Blatter wrote: »

Welbeck has played 4 positions for United this season and done pretty well in all of them. Left midfield, right midfield, centre forward and in the hole, where he sometimes rotates with Rooney during a game.

If Welbeck added more goals to his game, he'd be fairly close to being the complete forward player.

Seriously. There's nothing i've seen of him, in a number of games, that would suggest he's anything like that. I don't think he's good enough for United personally. His link up play is good indeed, but he flitters in and out of games way too much.

Ormus

Pro. F wrote: »

Britton is the polar opposite to Adam. G.K. summarized it better than I could.

The fact that he is nearly 30 and has gone unnoticed in England is indicative of the English footballing philosophy, not his abilities. They don't rate tidy players and they never have. Their almost continuous history of under achievement over the last hundred years shows that philosophy doesn't work.

You are suffering under the same illusions as the English footballing establishment. Hence why Britton doesn't have a chance of getting a call up and hence why you think that's the way it should be.

Personally, given their terrible track record, I would bet on my understanding of football and evaluation of players over the English general consensus every day of the week.

Watch the English midfielders struggle desperately in possession again this summer, like they always do. They are not tidy players, they will prove that in the tournament. Then ask yourself the question - are tidy players important in international football?

You're under the misconception that because a player is tidy that means he is capable of playing international football. I have played with some nice tidy footballer, but they would have struggled with the pace, power and skill of the 4th division in Spain. Just because a player has a certain style does not mean he is a misunderstood English version of Xavi. Just because a guy plays in the Andrea Pirlo position does not mean he is as good as Andrea Pirlo.

If you are right about there being droves of superior footballer who the English public are too dim to notice, then you deserve a job as a Premiership manager.

PhlegmyMoses

Corholio wrote: »

Seriously. There's nothing i've seen of him, in a number of games, that would suggest he's anything like that. I don't think he's good enough for United personally. His link up play is good indeed, but he flitters in and out of games way too much.

21 year old striker drifts in and out of games. I am disappoint.

Seriously though, his game has grown so much in the last two years that if he adds goals he will be one of the best strikers in the PL. He is quick, holds it up well, wins headers, runs the channels and works his socks off and his first touch is good and getting better. Also links play up well.

Ormus

Pro. F wrote: »

You can of course just have one. It's not ideal but it is better than none.

Scholes does well at United beside Carrick. Modric does well at Spurs beside Parker. Alonso used to do well at Liverpool beside Mascherano (who has since vastly improved his ball skills at Barca, but was very poor on the ball back then) and behind Gerrard and Kurt.

One tidy player amongst a load of athletes is far more of benefit than one extra athlete.


With regards to size, how is this argument still made? Look at Scholes, Xavi, Modric, Pirlo (to a lesser extant) to name just four. Non physically imposing central midfielders who are good on the ball have proven time and again they can dominate the game. If you want to see central midfielders getting bullied watch any English national team full of big clumsy athletes chasing shadows. It's chastening stuff.

The fact is, a team of athletes does not work. England have selected like that for years. They have proven categorically that that strategy doesn't work.



Pirlo is one of the most attacking central midfielders in the world. In the teams he plays for every attack is started by him.

Yes, in the same sense that a lot of attacks are started by goalies. You miss the point. I get what you mean. Pirlo is a deep lying yet creative player. That does not mean he is attacking. He simply doesn't attack.

G.K.

Pretty sure you are making a ridiculous generalisation like you did when you said when we were creaming ourselves over his passing stats. Britton is internationally capable.

PhlegmyMoses

Not sure about this Britton lark. He is a good player but not sure about him being international standard. Another good season at the top needed from him.

G.K.

Again I disagree. Busquets, a player you can compare Britton directly to, debuted for Spain after 1 season of top flight football.

G.K.

If you are going to debate, be constructive. Don't post random smilies with no content.

Ormus

G.K. wrote: »

Again I disagree. Busquets, a player you can compare Britton directly to, debuted for Spain after 1 season of top flight football.

Busquets debut season in the top flight came when he was 19.

Britton's has had 10 unremarkable seasons in the lower leagues.

Spot the difference.

UnitedIrishman

In the midst of all this madness, France at 9/5 in the opening game looks a cracking price. Or in the event of it being a tight affair - as a lot of first group games are - 5/6 draw no bet still looks cracking.

If you're just looking at quality of CF, as opposed to versatility, I think it's a very tough call between all of them.

Agree with that. Bar Rooney, who offers a bit more coming deep, the three others are players who go through massive patches of the season where they are shít hot or struggling. Defoe is exactly like that.

Carroll improved towards the end of the season and I'd probably have him up front whilst Rooney is missing with Gerrard playing behind him and two wide players. But Hodgson does prefer his 4-4-2.

G.K.

Age is irrelevant. Britton has cut the mustard in his debut top flight season, just as Busquets did.

PhlegmyMoses

G.K. wrote: »

Again I disagree. Busquets, a player you can compare Britton directly to, debuted for Spain after 1 season of top flight football.

We could come up with loads of examples like this. The crucial difference is that most of these players will be youths. Britton has spent his career in the lower leagues until he was almost 30. One season in a team that is set up to suit his style and is incredibly well-organised does not make a player with his experience international standard.

Ormus

G.K. wrote: »

Age is irrelevant. Britton has cut the mustard in his debut top flight season, just as Busquets did.

I think PhlegmyMoses made a valid point.

10 seasons of looking like a lower league player followed by one of holding his own in the Premiership.

It's not at all the same as Busquets, who never looked like anything but a top flight player.

HazDanz

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

We could come up with loads of examples like this. The crucial difference is that most of these players will be youths. Britton has spent his career in the lower leagues until he was almost 30. One season in a team that is set up to suit his style and is incredibly well-organised does not make a player with his experience international standard.

I think a good player with high confidence rather than an experience with low confidence is more important going into a major tournament. Having a player who is after playing well after a season of football is better than an experienced player who had a mediocore season getting into the squad.

Form is all that should come into it but when you look at the England squad that is clearly not the case.

G.K.

Holding his own? Britton has been a standout performer...

If the options were there I'd choose the younger head usually, but there aren't here. Britton is England's most capable DM who plays in the top flight. just my opinion, of course, but nothing has yet come to me to suggest otherwise.

Jimmy Iovine

I saw this picture on Twitter. Talk about jumping the gun. Poor Daniel.

Ormus

HazDanz wrote: »

I think a good player with high confidence rather than an experience with low confidence is more important going into a major tournament. Having a player who is after playing well after a season of football is better than an experienced player who had a mediocore season getting into the squad.

Form is all that should come into it but when you look at the England squad that is clearly not the case.

I agree that players low on confidence (eg Downing) should not be in the squad, but ideally the manager should try to find a happy medium between form and class/experience.

UnitedIrishman

It would be a huge, huge step up for Britton at this stage. Not to say he wouldn't make it but the difference between mid-table Premier League and even the top four is huge. Milner, Henderson, Adam are but three that have looked superb at lower clubs but found that they aren't as effective in a side that requires that bit more quality. Then playing international is arguably a step higher in terms of tactical awareness.

If this was his second season playing to the degree he played this year, then you'd have to look at him and give him a chance. But you'll find that a lot of teams will find a way to play against Swansea next year that will stifle them.