Antisocial behaviour Perth

Pisco Sour

mandrake04 wrote: »

some people?

The only one who mentioned Brazilians in this thread is you, so it seems that in your warped mind all Brazilians are thieves. I cant recall anyone else stating Brazilians are thieves.

Although you were blaming 457'ers & PR yesterday and Aussies the day before of antisocial behavior so I suppose blaming Brazilians on thieving makes perfect sense today.

:rolleyes: Christ!! It was a tongue in cheek comment showing the stupidity of generalisations. Clearly that was not obvious to some. :rolleyes:

jank

04072511 wrote: »

No, ignorance is making sweeping generalisations about a race or nationality based on a few idiots. That is what is happening in this thread. And so many people are worried about Australian people doing likewise. Would you really want to associate youself with somebody so stupid and ignorant to tar 6 million people with the one brush based on a few clowns in Northbridge. I wouldn't anyway.

Nobody is making such sweeping allegations stating that because of a few WHV Muppets taking the piss that this is a bad reflection on all 6 million Irish people. What we are saying that this behaviour is not on and should be condemned as rightly or wrongly Australians in these areas will not have such a favourable outlook on Irish people in the future, be they a permanent resident or someone on a WHV.

When you go abroad you are representing your country in a small way. The way you interact and behave with the locals is often a lasting testomony on the attittude the locals will develop about you and your country. Rinse and repeat x 10000 and it forms a strong opinion, wrightly or wrongly. Certain countries have traits, both negative and positive. The Irish drink too much. Its simple. Sometimes its in a lovable rouge way, other times its fighting on the street and pissing in someone garden.

E.g. have the WA police released similar statements about Dutch, French, English, German people on WHV's? If not, then maybe they are racist bigots picking on the poor Irish or maybe, just maybe that they have their nosies to the ground more than any of us, know whats going on, see the daily issues and have tried to do something about it. If that is the case then I think for the wider Irish Australian community it should be a cause for concern.

Or we could be like you and ignore the issue entirely and interjet strongly when anyone even dares to open their mouth about this issue.

Pisco Sour

jank wrote: »

Or we could be like you and ignore the issue entirely and interjet strongly when anyone even dares to open their mouth about this issue.

I don't think we should ignore the issue at all. What I don't agree with is all the Irish bashing and belittling remarks about Irish society. I mean was there really any need for the GAA or the Catholic Church to be mentioned in the hateful manner that they were? Seriously?

And with regards to Australians forming a bad impression on us based on a few clowns, anybody with half a brain wouldn't go make generalisations about 6 million people based on some d1ckheads in Northbridge. So if some Australians decide to go do that, then more power to them, but they won't be people I'll have any interest in meeting, as that is a display of ignorance. The same way I would have no interest in engaging with English people who think Ireland is part of the UK. It is just ignorance and a lack of knoweldge of the wider world. A lot of people here are so worried about what these type of people think. Any Australian who has bothered to leave their state (not to mention country!) would know right well what Irish people are truly like.

jank

04072511 wrote: »

I don't think we should ignore the issue at all. What I don't agree with is all the Irish bashing and belittling remarks about Irish society. I mean was there really any need for the GAA or the Catholic Church to be mentioned in the hateful manner that they were? Seriously?

And with regards to Australians forming a bad impression on us based on a few clowns, anybody with half a brain wouldn't go make generalisations about 6 million people based on some d1ckheads in Northbridge. So if some Australians decide to go do that, then more power to them, but they won't be people I'll have any interest in meeting, as that is a display of ignorance. The same way I would have no interest in engaging with English people who think Ireland is part of the UK. It is just ignorance and a lack of knoweldge of the wider world. A lot of people here are so worried about what these type of people think. Any Australian who has bothered to leave their state (not to mention country!) would know right well what Irish people are truly like.

Well good luck to being lonely so as the world is not so enlightened as you think. I have met many people who don't have a clue where Ireland is, are they ignorant? No, they just dont know.

Also re:GAA and Catholic Church, I think that poster was taking the piss Joe Duffy style, I cant help you out if you don't have a sense of humour, but you sure do love that high horse.

MrCreosote

04072511 wrote: »

No, ignorance is making sweeping generalisations about a race or nationality based on a few idiots. That is what is happening in this thread.

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about Irish people with booze. Sometimes the stereotype is true. It's not just a "few idiots"- we are proportionally the worst pissheads of any country in the world. That's at home in Ireland and abroad.

Whenever I hear or read about the drunken Irish stereotype, I just shrug my shoulders and think "too true". The whole country has a pretty appalling relationship with alcohol.

Pisco Sour

jank wrote: »

are they ignorant? No, they just dont know.

Isn't that the definition of ignorance right there?

Anyway, I can only go on my own experiences. I have never had any negative reactions from any locals in my 20 months here because of my nationality. I haven't had problem getting work or finding a place to stay. All the athletics crew like my company at races and I bring a bit of international variety to the thing for them. I'm the only Irish guy in the club.

Sure, if you want to look for a place to stay near Northbridge, in St Kilda, or Bondi Junction, or look for a job doing manual labour in Perth, Melbourne or Sydney you may have a bit of a problem, but if you look for a place to live anywhere else, or try to find any other type of job, then you will not have a problem at all based on your nationality. I honestly believe that.

Only once has anybody said anything negative to me about the Irish, which was more of a passing comment. An old house mate said he hated the drunken Irish backpackers. He then paused and said that he couldn't exactly talk though as he said he acted disgracefully when he was away in Asia and Europe. That is the only time I have had anybody say anything.

An interesting twist by the way. An Irish guy out here I know who is working on a labour site said that the Australian guy he works for ONLY hires Irish people. He said it's because the man thinks they are the best workers. So I guess there's 2 sides to every coin.

Pisco Sour

MrCreosote wrote: »

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about Irish people with booze.

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about English football fans being hooligans

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about AFL fans being bogans

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about Indians being call centre scammers

You could say the same for the above. In all these instances (you example included) the statement may be true, but for the minority of people within these groups, not the majority as you are suggesting with regards Irish people and booze. None of my friends and immediate and extended family are piss heads. I guess they don't count though. Let's just look at the ones who are pissheads and make a generalisation based on that. More fun that way :rolleyes:

MrCreosote

04072511 wrote: »

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about English football fans being hooligans

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about AFL fans being bogans

It's hardly ignorance to make sweeping generalisations about Indians being call centre scammers

You could say the same for the above. In all these instances (you example included) the statement may be true, but for the minority of people within these groups, not the majority as you are suggesting with regards Irish people and booze. None of my friends and immediate and extended family are piss heads. I guess they don't count though. Let's just look at the ones who are pissheads and make a generalisation based on that. More fun that way :rolleyes:

Just like you say, the other 3 examples are minorities so you can't generalise from them. But are you seriously suggesting that Irish people don't have a problem with alcohol based on the fact that your family doesn't?!

You can't deny the facts:

The MAJORITY of young Irish people (up to 30) both drink to excess and binge drink.
ALL important Irish social occasions are soaked in alcohol.
EVERY Irish town or village of any size will have pissheads falling over and fighting on a Friday and Saturday night, all year round. The A&E presentations on weekend nights involve alcohol in 80-90%

These aren't uniquely Irish traits, just that we taken it up to 11 on the scale. And unlike other countries getting pissed a few times a week is considered an acceptable recreational activity into your 30's and beyond.

I think it's acceptable to assume an Irish person, particularly a young male, is a pisshead until proven otherwise, because more likely than not it's going to be the correct assumption.

markymark21

MrCreosote wrote: »

I think it's acceptable to assume an Irish person, particularly a young male, is a pisshead until proven otherwise, because more likely than not it's going to be the correct assumption.

In my opinion that's a fairly shocking way to judge such a large section of the Irish population. I've seen the carnage that some individuals/groups can cause around Town during the weekends but to label everyone young male a pisshead unless they prove to you their credentials is completely self righteous.

Anyway about the Irish acting the maggot in WA. In fairness like I said above, everyone can see for themselves the damage some young Irish lads can cause while on the jar. So with the thousands upon thousands of young lads coming over, earning great money and with all the freedom in the world is anyone surprised there are muppets causing problems?? I'm not. Unfortunately the minority will always stand out. And with a hundred people who are just having a few drinks the couple that cause the problems will always be the ones that you remember.

What I can't understand is that people are posting stories of Irish lads getting drunk, abusive and pretty much blitzed and then using these as justifications for Aussie employers and landlords discriminating again Irish people as a whole. If these employers/landlords did proper research in regards to references, employment history and tenancy history maybe they wouldn't have to deal which these kinds of people?!


Finally in regards to generalisations. I worked in a hotel in Melbourne for six months. In that time we had an aussie bartender fired for robbing, an Australian waiter walk out in the middle of service because he didn't like taking instructions from my GF (his supervisor), another supervisor (an aussie) was one warning away from being fired as she was caught stealing, was incompetent and giving her mates free food/drink. Our first manager (also an Aussie) was fired for familiar reasons.

So in my 6 months only our head chef was the only Aussie who good at his job in our restaurant and he would 100% agree with this statement.(He said a few times young Aussies don't have much work ethic)

However I don't have an prejudices against Aussies because I know only a retard judges a whole race of people over the actions of a few people.

Pisco Sour

markymark21 wrote: »

In my opinion that's a fairly shocking way to judge such a large section of the Irish population. I've seen the carnage that some individuals/groups can cause around Town during the weekends but to label everyone young male a pisshead unless they prove to you their credentials is completely self righteous.

Anyway about the Irish acting the maggot in WA. In fairness like I said above, everyone can see for themselves the damage some young Irish lads can cause while on the jar. So with the thousands upon thousands of young lads coming over, earning great money and with all the freedom in the world is anyone surprised there are muppets causing problems?? I'm not. Unfortunately the minority will always stand out. And with a hundred people who are just having a few drinks the couple that cause the problems will always be the ones that you remember.

What I can't understand is that people are posting stories of Irish lads getting drunk, abusive and pretty much blitzed and then using these as justifications for Aussie employers and landlords discriminating again Irish people as a whole. If these employers/landlords did proper research in regards to references, employment history and tenancy history maybe they wouldn't have to deal which these kinds of people?!


Finally in regards to generalisations. I worked in a hotel in Melbourne for six months. In that time we had an aussie bartender fired for robbing, an Australian waiter walk out in the middle of service because he didn't like taking instructions from my GF (his supervisor), another supervisor (an aussie) was one warning away from being fired as she was caught stealing, was incompetent and giving her mates free food/drink. Our first manager (also an Aussie) was fired for familiar reasons.

So in my 6 months only our head chef was the only Aussie who good at his job in our restaurant and he would 100% agree with this statement.(He said a few times young Aussies don't have much work ethic)

However I don't have an prejudices against Aussies because I know only a retard judges a whole race of people over the actions of a few people.

Finally an intelligent post here.

MrCreosote

markymark21 wrote: »

In my opinion that's a fairly shocking way to judge such a large section of the Irish population. I've seen the carnage that some individuals/groups can cause around Town during the weekends but to label everyone young male a pisshead unless they prove to you their credentials is completely self righteous.

Where exactly am I getting self-righteous. People can do what they want- if they want to piss their 20s away in some sh*thole that's their own choice. They don't have to prove anything to me.
All I'm saying is that the majority of young Irish adults, and a big minority of older one drink too much. That's not a judgement, it's a fact.

Pisco Sour

MrCreosote wrote: »

Where exactly am I getting self-righteous. People can do what they want- if they want to piss their 20s away in some sh*thole that's their own choice. They don't have to prove anything to me.
All I'm saying is that the majority of young Irish adults, and a big minority of older one drink too much. That's not a judgement, it's a fact.

Such a silly generalisation (keeping to the theme of this thread). Being an athletics man yourself, it would be like saying that it is reasonable to believe that every single athlete is on drugs unless proven otherwise based on Marion Jones and some other c*nts. :rolleyes: Anybody with any intelligence and knowledge knows this isn't the case, but it doesn't stop the media feeding the Star/Sun reading public with sensationalist information. Your comments about Irish people are very tabloid-esqe.

Sundy

04072511 wrote: »

Finally an intelligent post here.

Very true and I'm glad you recognise that your own posts are included in those that are not intelligent.

markymark21

MrCreosote wrote: »

Where exactly am I getting self-righteous. People can do what they want- if they want to piss their 20s away in some sh*thole that's their own choice. They don't have to prove anything to me.
All I'm saying is that the majority of young Irish adults, and a big minority of older one drink too much. That's not a judgement, it's a fact.

Well mate, you just expressed the view "that it's acceptable to assume an Irish person, particularly a young male, is a piss-head until proven otherwise".. If this isn't self righteous I don't know what is! You think it alright to judge an entire generation on the basis of some people getting messy on the weekends..

Anyway I'll not doubt in generally Irish people drink, some excessively. Unfortunately like many countries its in the culture. Always has been, probably always will be.. The problem is in controlling binge drinking at occurs mainly at weekends. Many solutions to this have been bandied around from greater awareness (perhaps an RSA program should be implemented over here), the low cost of booze, the amount of alcohol advertisement etc.. But that's a topic for another day!

Mr Creosote, its worth noting that Ireland is 16th in the list of countries with the highest consumption of alcohol and in the last decade alcohol consumption is down 17% so maybe there's hope for us yet!

http://www.thejournal.ie/alcohol-consumption-down-by-17-per-cent-over-last-decade-344971-Feb2012/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

jackbhoy

04072511 wrote: »

These people are morons who give the rest of us a bad name. It amazes me how many people waste a once in a lifetime visa to just drink their brains out, and not see anywhere in this country at all. Earning good money and drinking it away. Getting into fights for no reason, waking up the next morning and remembering nothing, turning up to work drunk and thinking it is funny, and worst of all, wearing those hideous GAA jerseys.

However, I do not like the belittling of the WHV, and I have noticed certain posters here looking down on it on many occasions now. Firstly, just because you are on a sponsored visa doesn’t mean you are better than us, so get down off that high horse. The vast majority of WHV holders do NOT carry on like these people. There are people from all over the world holding WHVs, not just Irish people. I have never seen a German, French, Italian, Norwegian, Swede carry on like that, and they come to Australia in their droves like the Irish do, so no, they should not have a quota of WHVs holders just so your precious selves can enjoy some peace. Deport the muppets yes, but don’t punish the vast majority of good people because of these clowns.

Mate, are just arguing for sake of it now?

Above is your first post on this thread where you: a) Moan b) generalise about GA jersey/young Irish c) say other nationalities don't cause trouble (another generalisation).
And for whole of today you have slated lads for moaning, generalising and saying Irish are no different than x.
I dont disagree with some of your points but you are so inconsistent with your stance that it just comes across as you being argumentative, rather than genuinely having a point of view. I'm not trying to start another debate with you, just confused by your logic...

Anyway, I'm conducting an experiment. I'm working my way through a bottle of very nice scotch here, want to find that incredible hulk moment where my Irish genes kick in, I throw on my GA jersey and start river dancing across my neighbours car roofs, while singing "oh ah, up da ra".

jackbhoy

...nothing yet.

markymark21

jackbhoy wrote: »

...nothing yet.

which scotch ya sampling??

You've reminded me of the last time I drank whiskey.Got a bottle of Jameson 12 year old as a leaving present a couple of week ago. We stayed back in the hotel till 4am, ended up polishing off the bottle (with help) and I ended up getting sick outside the main entrance of the hotel - 5 star hotel that is

Kinda ties in which previous posts about Irish people drinking too much I guess

Sundy

Well spotted jackbhoy, it would appear jumble of numbers is just trolling.

Bottle of scotch, wheres you patriotism?

jank

jackbhoy wrote: »

...nothing yet.

Arguing for the sake of arguing I think.

mandrake04

26 Countries
44 Posts
And I lost count how many times the word Generalisation was used.

I think old mate there has dug himself into such a big hole in this debate that his working holiday visa will have run by the time he climbs out.

I used to think he was decent enough skin, but his credibility is now in the toilet.

jank

04072511 wrote: »

Isn't that the definition of ignorance right there?

.

So that bushman I met in Namibia a few weeks ago must be an awful ignorant asshole then even though he is regarded as one of the most knowledgeable bushman of his like in Southern Africa.

Maybe he thinks I am an ignorant asshole because I don't know how to track wild animals in the desert and survive on bugs and reptiles if the need be.

Knowledge != less ignorance.

The Aussie

mandrake04 wrote: »

Working Holiday Hard Visa

Mandrake, fixed that up for you there old mate, some are precious about the other H word:rolleyes:

jackbhoy

markymark21 wrote: »

jackbhoy wrote: »

...nothing yet.

which scotch ya sampling??

Dalwhinnie, very tasty it was. Had the last dregs of a bottle of Glenmorangie too, gorgeous drink!

jackbhoy

Sundy wrote: »

Well spotted jackbhoy, it would appear jumble of numbers is just trolling.

Bottle of scotch, wheres you patriotism?

I was always a Tullamore Dew/Jameson man, just trying to broaden my horizons a bit!

Anyway, so my experiment ended in me falling asleep on couch while watching the Leinster match, have to try Jim Beam premix or box of Goon next to see if that awakens my inner bogan/knacker...

Father Damo

What do the bottom 3 groups have in common?

Ice smokers
The abundance of mentally ill homeless wandering the city streets
The 5% of the Australian population who are, bar some rural areas, are only unemployed because they are too lazy to work and, if they are not paying rent or a mortgage, earn a reaonable amount per week to keep them in food booze and clothes.

Answer?

All bigger issues for society than a few pissed up Irish boyos smacking the sh1te out of other pissed up Irish boyos. All bigger menaces to society than a handful of boat people.

Try telling that to any fcukwit who watches A Current Affair.

hussey

Mod I think it's far to say this debate is going around in circles
If anyone wants me to reopen it you can PM with valid reasons why.