Educate Together - Voluntary Contribution

Christina B

My Daughter starts school in September and I have received an email today stating that the school will be accepting payment for the school books and the voluntary contribution on their open day.

Does anyone have any idea what the average/expected amount is?

Tiradon

From the Educate Together website - "The amount varies from school to school with the average from €50-€100 per family"

http://www.educatetogether.ie/school-support/2012/02/school-funding-where-does-it-come-from/

Chocolate fiend

I got the email as well, and then the second one with the amount for the books etc, but, no mention of the VC on that one. Is it supposed to be a different cheque?

mirekb

It's a different cheque. You can put them together if you wish, but I think it may be better to separate them for ease of admin? Call the school perhaps

radharc05

Voluntary should be as it says on the tin 'VOLUNTARY'

But in my friends case, the school not only sent out numerous texts and reminders, they have just sent out named envelopes to the children of families that have not paid!
Therefore 'naming and shaming' families and embarassing the children.
Parents that can ill afford to put food on to the table to look after their families are being put in an embarassing situation.

I'd be interested to hear peoples opinions of this, and what should she do?
She outlined her concerns to one of the mothers responsible (whom by the way has'nt been a regular payer by any means, but this individual has taken up a position of treasurer and now sees it fit to send out these NAMED envelopes)
People in glass houses should'nt throw stones situation!

Is this a step too far? thoughts please?

Fiachra2

Its a difficult one.

One the one hand it is a simple reality that these schools are under-funded and that it is impossible for them to provide proper educational facilities without the gerosity of parents who make voluntary contributions.

It is also the case that "inability to pay" is not the main reason that parents dont contribute. Unfortunately too many parents who have capacity fail to contribute and leave it to others to do so. Its very galling for a school to see some parents having no compunction availing of facilites which have been paid for by the generosity of others.

That said many schools handle this process very badly:

• Failing to explain to parents what the money is needed for
• Failing to account to parents at the end of the year for how the money was spent
• Failing to try and motivate parents to be generous in the interest of their childrens education.

If a school has to "name and shame" then it has failed. What the poster described should not have to happen

jeni

i was with the nuns in secondry, and it was an on going joke every year when my mam had to pay the compulsary voluntry contribution,guess you just pay it,

with no uniform arnt we saving n e way

any idea how much the books are ?? my lil one is starting too

The Bishop Basher

As Fiachra2 has said....

Schools cannot survive on government funding alone. The voluntary contribution, along with other PTA fundraising activities through the year are vital to ensure a good education can be provided especially with regard to extras like PC's, sports tuition etc.

I know in the shools my children attend, it's handled sensitively and the needs and expenses of the school are explained clearly up to and including sharing the balance sheets at the end of the year.

Some people in this country are still under the illusion that their children can have a free education and it amazes me that they refuse to pay the relatively small contribution once a year. They want all the perks for free.

That said, of course there is a small minority that really can't afford to pay and in these cases the school should be willing to listen and work out a special agreement with these familes on an individual basis. No matter how broke people are though, I can't believe they couldn't even afford €5 or €10 a month to ensure their children receive the best education possible. Surely this is a key priority for any parent.

With regard to this case and based on the post above, it does sound like one person is making decisions without the correct checks and balances being in place. Is there no board of management where these actions are agreed on ?

Dr.Silly

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Its a difficult one.

One the one hand it is a simple reality that these schools are under-funded and that it is impossible for them to provide proper educational facilities without the gerosity of parents who make voluntary contributions.

It is also the case that "inability to pay" is not the main reason that parents dont contribute. Unfortunately too many parents who have capacity fail to contribute and leave it to others to do so. Its very galling for a school to see some parents having no compunction availing of facilites which have been paid for by the generosity of others.

That said many schools handle this process very badly:

• Failing to explain to parents what the money is needed for
• Failing to account to parents at the end of the year for how the money was spent
• Failing to try and motivate parents to be generous in the interest of their childrens education.

If a school has to "name and shame" then it has failed. What the poster described should not have to happen

It's not a difficult one in the slightest in my opinion.
This is VOLUNTARY .. and been named and shamed is an absolute disgrace.

If the schools are underfunded, fine, let's pay for it, and NOT call it voluntary.
Put an extra tax on school books, or oxygen in the classrooms or something ... god knows this poxy government will find a good way of extracting the money.

Spook_ie

All my children went to an Educate Together school on the northside, and we were asked for a Voluntary Contribution, but a plain red envelope was supplied (no names attached) and we were simply asked to return it on a given day. They also detailed to us at the AGM where/how the Voluntary Contributions were spent.

Now that the kids are in Secondary School, its a whole different ball game. The Voluntary Contriubtion has become the 'Registration Fee' and is 150 euros per child, it says on the form that this fee is for the use of the lockers (???) and the childs journal. The Registration fee must be paid before the end of May and is to be returned with the form confirming that your child will be taking up a place in the September.

I do agree with other posters, that at the end of the day, schools cannot survive on what the Government gives them but obviously some schools handle the situation better than others.

Imhof Tank

Dr.Silly wrote: »

It's not a difficult one in the slightest in my opinion.
This is VOLUNTARY .. and been named and shamed is an absolute disgrace.

If the schools are underfunded, fine, let's pay for it, and NOT call it voluntary.
Put an extra tax on school books, or oxygen in the classrooms or something ... god knows this poxy government will find a good way of extracting the money.

Can’t stand this attitude.

The ET wouldnt be there at all without the funds raised voluntarily by a group of very committed people (and no, I have absolutely no connection with the school or anyone involved with it).

Most parents who can afford it are prepared to contribute voluntarily. Reasonable people won’t generally withhold money from their local primary school for macro-economic political reasons.

Your solution to underfunded schools would involve those who can say “fine, let’s pay for it” going one way and other people’s kids being left where they are in decrepit conditions or alternatively have their parents criminalised for non payment of extra school book taxes.

As Pink Floyd put it - Im all right Jack ...........

The voluntary contribution system works ok so long as its applied correctly.

Dr.Silly

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Can’t stand this attitude.

The ET wouldnt be there at all without the funds raised voluntarily by a group of very committed people (and no, I have absolutely no connection with the school or anyone involved with it).

Most parents who can afford it are prepared to contribute voluntarily. Reasonable people won’t generally withhold money from their local primary school for macro-economic political reasons.

Your solution to underfunded schools would involve those who can say “fine, let’s pay for it” going one way and other people’s kids being left where they are in decrepit conditions or alternatively have their parents criminalised for non payment of extra school book taxes.

As Pink Floyd put it - Im all right Jack ...........

The voluntary contribution system works ok so long as its applied correctly.

My attitude is with the voluntary contribution been applied incorrectly.
If the voluntary contribution is not enough to cover the costs, then get people to pay for it. What other option is there ? There is none !

Making a voluntary contribution more or less compulsory is a joke.

Imhof Tank

Dr.Silly wrote: »

My attitude is with the voluntary contribution been applied incorrectly.
If the voluntary contribution is not enough to cover the costs, then get people to pay for it. What other option is there ? There is none !

Making a voluntary contribution more or less compulsory is a joke.

The voluntary contribution is enough the cover costs and the majority of reasonable people pay it where they can.

You were advocating non payment just because they call it "voluntary".

Look at the bigger picture.

Dr.Silly

Imhof Tank wrote: »

You were advocating non payment just because they call it "voluntary".

and I still do

If you EXPECT money, don't bother calling it voluntary ... simple as that

Imhof Tank

Dr.Silly wrote: »

and I still do

If you EXPECT money, don't bother calling it voluntary ... simple as that

Yes, the schools EXPECT parents to volunteer money - which the parents do, notwithstanding your outlook.

You are seriously saying take this role away from parents and fund raising committees, and let central govenment come up with an equitable solution?? As if they would.

And what happens in the meantime? Everybody (including those who were happy to pay) get to keep their €50 or €100 in their pocket for the year and the school looses a whiteboard? That would be a really excellent outcome wouldnt it?

Chocolate fiend

jeni wrote: »

any idea how much the books are ?? my lil one is starting too

€137

The Bishop Basher

It's voluntary in the sense that those who can pay it do.

Some pay more, some pay less and there are always the few who pay nothing.

These parents are probably the loudest and most troublesome as is usually the case.

If you can't pay it speak to the school. Discuss the options.

If you can, well just pay up and shut up and be glad your child is recieving such an excellent education.

Dr.Silly

No,

All I am trying to say is ...
Don't force voluntary contribution and name and shame people that don't/can't pay. If you're going to do this it may as well be a compulsory fee.

The Bishop Basher

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about the naming and shaming of people that can't pay.

People who don't pay is another matter.

Either way it's up to the board of managment to figure out how they deal with it.

snowman224

How on earth is it a different matter for people who don't pay and those who can't...

If it's voluntary, it is not required and is at a persons discretion, regardless of circumstances..

If the school views it as mandatory - then don't dress it as a voluntary contribution.

The Bishop Basher

They're worlds apart.

Thankfully most parents don't think like you or our education system wouldn't be anything like as good as it is today.

That's ok though, keep living in that bubble and have everyone else subsidise your childs education.

I hope when your spending the €137 on yourself you spend it wisely.

snowman224

Read what I said.
Nowhere did I say that I would not pay it.

By definition, if it is a voluntary contribution - you can not expect (or shame) people to pay it.

Being voluntary it is a personal choice.
If it is mandatory then certainly schools can expect payment.

snowman224

Btw, I'm just gonna PM you my account details.

I'd appreciate a voluntary donation in the region of €500.

I await patiently receipt of same.

Kind regards,
.....

Charlie-Bravo

Just to clarify, the 137euro is for the supply of the school books and some miscellanous materials such as art materials copy books etc. The school are ordering in the books to save hassle for all the parents of the kids attending.

The VC is suggested at 80euro - this is completely seperate. ET are very gracious if someone offers to pay this.

The Bishop Basher

snowman224 wrote: »

Read what I said.
Nowhere did I say that I would not pay it.

By definition, if it is a voluntary contribution - you can not expect (or shame) people to pay it.

Being voluntary it is a personal choice.
If it is mandatory then certainly schools can expect payment.

You're completely missing the point. I feel sorry for school boards if this is the mentality that have to deal with.

Imhof Tank

Swanner wrote: »

You're completely missing the point. I feel sorry for school boards if this is the mentality that have to deal with.

It isnt in my experience anyway, thankfully.

Keyboard warrior.

snowman224

Swanner wrote: »

snowman224 wrote: »

Read what I said.
Nowhere did I say that I would not pay it.

By definition, if it is a voluntary contribution - you can not expect (or shame) people to pay it.

Being voluntary it is a personal choice.
If it is mandatory then certainly schools can expect payment.

You're completely missing the point. I feel sorry for school boards if this is the mentality that have to deal with.

Mentality? I think you're missing the point. Voluntary is just that. Voluntary.
If the fee is towards books that the school are sourcing on behalf of the parents then that is a completely different issue. However if it's simply an open request for a voluntary contribution then that is up to people themselves.

I would suggest you're completely missing the point. I feel sorry for the school boards if your grammar is an example of what they have to deal with.

LEIN

Play the topic and not the poster.

The Bishop Basher

snowman224 wrote: »

Mentality? I think you're missing the point. Voluntary is just that. Voluntary.
If the fee is towards books that the school are sourcing on behalf of the parents then that is a completely different issue. However if it's simply an open request for a voluntary contribution then that is up to people themselves.

I would suggest you're completely missing the point. I feel sorry for the school boards if your grammar is an example of what they have to deal with.

Whatever :rolleyes:

The Bishop Basher

Moving away from the personal insults...

This is an extract from a local school website regarding a massive development plan and it pretty much sums it up..

"Generous funding from the Department of Education and Science (DES) covered many, but not all, of the features that were included in the school’s overall development plan......A major fundraising programme has been on-going since December 2006, and has been most successful thanks to the generosity of the parent community whose support for our school’s development has been phenomenal, and reflects the positive parental commitment that is a cornerstone of our vibrant school community. The project has also been aided by generous contributions from members of the wider Greystones community."

We can sit and wait for the government to pay for everything in our schools, or we can contribute what we can and ensure it's as good as it can be for our children and those coming after.

snowman224

The thing is I agree that people should contribute. And I'm delighted that we do.

I also believe that there should free education and that there should be no need for supplementary funding.
But being a realist I know that won't happen in my lifetime. The cost will only increase for something that should be a basic right and freely available.
"They want all the perks for free" - Swanner
Education is not a perk!

The article extract is a credit to the people of Greystones.

However, the point still stands that it is morally wrong to use children as a pawn to extort money from their parents.
If the contribution is described as voluntary, then there will always be a percentage who will not contribute - which they are perfectly entitled to do so.

If the school requires 100% of people to contribute, then make it a mandatory fee. Simple.


** Personal insults initiated by your good self. Not me!
"Thankfully most parents don't think like you.."

** As well as some astounding and sweeping accusations:
"..there are always the few who pay nothing. These parents are probably the loudest and most troublesome as is usually the case."
- A truly amazing statement based on nothing whatsoever. Amazing....

"...have everyone else subsidise your childs education"
Did I say that I don't/didn't/won't contribute? No.