South County GC Closed

matt-dublin

well lads any update?

BeccaS

Quote: Secondly, and it is your input that helps here, I was in SDGC a week ago, I had brought guests. A "member" came in and asked the girl behind the bar to check his bar credit and after doing so (I have witness to this) he walked out with his friends cradling bottles of wine. There is nobody on this forum that has ever, ever gone to a golf club to take a loan of wine and in this case it was a blatant tip off to allow preferred gentlemen to get their bar credit back before the 6:21am "Mission is scrubbed text" . Incidently, while this was happening I was putting €200 on my club card to support the club.

I beg your pardon, I'm afraid you are talking about something you don't know. There were lots of members which didn't spent their levys and every year SC does wine sale in March. At the time the stock was low so they paid in advance and they were supposed to collect them later on, when the wines were delivered acording to the intake orders. So, you my friend confused yourself and some other people that don't know about it. South County never lent wine to anyone.

FixdePitchmark

BeccaS wrote: »

Quote: Secondly, and it is your input that helps here, I was in SDGC a week ago, I had brought guests. A "member" came in and asked the girl behind the bar to check his bar credit and after doing so (I have witness to this) he walked out with his friends cradling bottles of wine. There is nobody on this forum that has ever, ever gone to a golf club to take a loan of wine and in this case it was a blatant tip off to allow preferred gentlemen to get their bar credit back before the 6:21am "Mission is scrubbed text" . Incidently, while this was happening I was putting €200 on my club card to support the club.

I beg your pardon, I'm afraid you are talking about something you don't know. There were lots of members which didn't spent their levys and every year SC does wine sale in March. At the time the stock was low so they paid in advance and they were supposed to collect them later on, when the wines were delivered acording to the intake orders. So, you my friend confused yourself and some other people that don't know about it. South County never lent wine to anyone.

Was it Merlot or a nice 2005 Brunello di Montalcino ?

BeccaS

fennetec wrote: »

Thanks, on the first issue there are many questions to be answered because until the company (South Dublin Golf Club 2004 Limited) are in liquidation nobody under the companies act (2003-2009) had the authority to take, remove, sell, or(in my own words) interfere with anything from a toothpick to a teapot belonging the company. The notice you now refer to came informing that a meeting of creditors would take place on 31st May. It was unsigned, it must be signed by a named person on behalf of the "board" or by a legal representative representing the company. Neither applied to the notification you or I received.

Secondly, and it is your input that helps here, I was in SDGC a week ago, I had brought guests. A "member" came in and asked the girl behind the bar to check his bar credit and after doing so (I have witness to this) he walked out with his friends cradling bottles of wine. There is nobody on this forum that has ever, ever gone to a golf club to take a loan of wine and in this case it was a blatant tip off to allow preferred gentlemen to get their bar credit back before the 6:21am "Mission is scrubbed text" . Incidently, while this was happening I was putting €200 on my club card to support the club.

As far as I am concerned, neither the club in the form of a sender of an email with an unsigned word doc implying what date the wind up of SDGC will take place, a landlord standing behind the counter in the eviction site that was Raymie Byrnes Pro shop, with, ironicaly a SDGC golf jumper on him, or anyone else will dictate to me when and what will happen unless they are absolutley 100% sure of their legal standing. Up to now, at least two parties are hitting around 15% of their legal obligations, two of them being obliged to ensure that under current law CCTV footage of the exchange of bar credit for wine is still on the CCTV system.

As far as proxy's are concerned with regard to 31st May, I have a number I can pass on for free to some of those who loaned 3K recently and can't gain admission tomorrow night by mere fact that I paid for junior memberships for young lads who got their GUI card and never got to hit a ball on the course. As the man behind the counter said today, while ironically wearing a SCGC jumper, shure what happened you, its like buying a new car and going out and crashing it - there is the mentality.

I beg your pardon, I'm afraid you are talking about something you don't know. There were lots of members which didn't spent their levys and every year SC does wine sale in March. At the time the stock was low so they paid in advance and they were supposed to collect them later on, when the wines were delivered acording to the intake orders. So, you my friend confused yourself and some other people that don't know about it. At the time you probably witnessed that gentleman collecting his wine which was already paid. South County never lent wine to anyone.

BeccaS

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Was it Merlot or a nice 2005 Brunello di Montalcino ?

Do you like the 2005 Montepulciano? Highly recommended.

Gambino

matt-dublin wrote: »

well lads any update?

Good meeting. Attractive offer from landlords. Committees will explore it further but looks like we will be back in business.
I think this forum has run its course. Bye all.

FixdePitchmark

Gambino wrote: »

Good meeting. Attractive offer from landlords. Committees will explore it further but looks like we will be back in business.
I think this forum has run its course. Bye all.

Great News

chuckieamc

Yes, very positive meeting with a big turnout. Committed enthusiastic members with a seemingly vast majority who are not willing to give up just yet.

Landlords offer is good enough to warrant giving it a try anyway.

carman2011

Super meeting , huge positivity , of over 200 people in room , only 2 voted against moving forward under new proposal.
Paid up members pay 150 for rest of year , dd payers pay 70 per month going forward.
No risk , no money up front , no debts with old company gone ,
Cheapest option around and we all get to stay put.
No board of directors etc going forward , just committee to run comps etc.
We are even back in the inter club comps.
IMO most people will take this up and stay, it's a no risk , no brainer.

buzz

Good to hear, is the pro shop staying?

vikingdub

The landlords hope to have a Club Professional in the very near future.

Anatom

Sounds like a sensible and workable solution was found. Well done all.

One question - what's the story with the staff? Are they safe, or did you get that far into the detail?

Again, I'm glad to hear things worked out a bit more positively...

dangerous golfer

Good meeting, nice to see people sticking together.

Im concerned about the fungus which plagued the Nirobi desert now though, we must keep South County free of that.

Blue for Ever

carman2011 wrote: »

Super meeting , huge positivity , of over 200 people in room , only 2 voted against moving forward under new proposal.
Paid up members pay 150 for rest of year , dd payers pay 70 per month going forward.
No risk , no money up front , no debts with old company gone ,
Cheapest option around and we all get to stay put.
No board of directors etc going forward , just committee to run comps etc.
We are even back in the inter club comps.
IMO most people will take this up and stay, it's a no risk , no brainer.

Sounds good but what about the liquidator? Surely no deal can be done without the liquidator on board. He has a responsibility to get as much as possible for the creditors. The Kavanaghs own the land but the €4.2million asset on the balance sheet of SCGC (Properties) Ltd is the golf course and clubhouse. The way I see it the liquidator will do one of four things
1. Try to sell the assets to the Kavanaghs
2. Try to sell the assets to the members
3. Allow the Kavanaghs/members to maintain the asset with a view to selling it to them in the future
4. Strip the asset and recover as much as possible by selling each individual item. There may not be much of a market for greens sod but there is a market out there and it might be the only way they are able to recover money for the creditors

Loire

Great news and disregard my earlier post. Nice to see a NAMA for the little people! Best of luck to SCGC 2.0

fennetec

Like a few posters on here, I just want to play golf and I wish all at SDGC the very best of luck. There are scars though and the deepest were caused by confusion. For example, we had a mailshot in which it was stated by the captains that the actions of the "landlord" (hate that word) could hinder the proper winding up of the company by him taking possesion of the property. In the same announcement we were all warned of the consequences of playing golf on the course while not being insured.

Then tonight, the Captain compliments the work of the landlord in having machinerey in to cut the grass on the fairways, he is actually complimenting the landlord two days after we were warned <Mod edit>?? !!! Then we are informed that (little round of applause) the "Board" worked dillegently and did their best - but - if you are not going to be one of my disciples be aware that the same "Board" did not alone take your money but it has been confirmed that if you are moving to another club, your insurance or GUI was never paid. There was an offer from Blainroe among the golf clubs that offered assistance, a more appropriate one would have been from Killnascully. Bye Bye South Dublin. I wish you luck and I met some really nice people up there but I am not able to hack this anymore.

emac123

I presume you are referring to the below:
"We are aware that the landlords have indicated that they have now taken over control of their lands and intend to keep the course open. We need to inform all members and shareholders that while we fully support all efforts to keep the Mens and Ladies golf clubs running, anyone using the facilities does so at their own risk. The actions of the landlords also have the potential to hamper the orderly wind up of the business and we will be contacting their legal representatives asking for their cooperation at this time.

Again, we regret that this decision has had to be made but under the rules and law governing commercial businesses we were, in the end, left with no viable alternative.

The Board"

This was not a communication from the captains or the committees, but from the Board.

As Rafa Bentitez would say, this is a fact, no!

Whyner

fennetec wrote: »

Like a few posters on here, I just want to play golf and I wish all at SDGC the very best of luck. There are scars though and the deepest were caused by confusion. For example, we had a mailshot in which it was stated by the captains that the actions of the "landlord" (hate that word) could hinder the proper winding up of the company by him taking possesion of the property. In the same announcement we were all warned of the consequences of playing golf on the course while not being insured.

Then tonight, the Captain compliments the work of the landlord in having machinerey in to cut the grass on the fairways, he is actually complimenting the landlord two days after we were warned about the illegal occupation of our club?? !!! Then we are informed that (little round of applause) the "Board" worked dillegently and did their best - but - if you are not going to be one of my disciples be aware that the same "Board" did not alone take your money but it has been confirmed that if you are moving to another club, your insurance or GUI was never paid. There was an offer from Blainroe among the golf clubs that offered assistance, a more appropriate one would have been from Killnascully. Bye Bye South Dublin. I wish you luck and I met some really nice people up there but I am not able to hack this anymore.

Please tell me that was you in the front row giving the Captain a bit of lip?

The captain is best mates with members on the board so that didn't surprise me. From those who have looked at the books, it does't seem that they stole any of our money.

99% of those there last night are willing to give it another go. I think you should too. I've also got a sour taste in my mouth over the way everything was handled but we'll come through it as a group. Separate the good from the bad...

€150 for the end of the year has to be worth a risk, a second try...We have the potential to come out on this as a closer club

They explained the GUI not being paid so why are you bringing that up? They said it always gets paid at the end of year when they have collected from all members throughout the year. I'm not sure about insurance, that did sound dodgy.

No sign of Blainroe on my sheet?? I fully understand if you do leave, some great options available, to go along with a fresh start. Just none of them suit me.

Edit - Oh, he's closed his account

link_2007

Unfortunately I wasn't able to make the meeting due to work committments (and by that I mean annoying clients) but a couple of small questions.

If the membership records were taken/deleted as has previously been stated, how will they know who was fully paid up and who was paying by DD?

As they are charging such a small fee to people who were members of the club to be liquidated, I assume that once formed, the new club will be looking for new members as well? DId they say how much these people would be charged?

Whyner

link_2007 wrote: »

As they are charging such a small fee to people who were members of the club to be liquidated, I assume that once formed, the new club will be looking for new members as well? DId they say how much these people would be charged?

I think they can join at the same rates as DD payers

carman2011

As far as I know , it's 70 per month for members on dd and new people also. I for one , have a few friends who might take this up, the place could be thriving with 600 members by end of year, then next years sub won't have to increase.
By killing off the old company , the 50k per year in revenue arrears and 60k interest on old loans dies, so if the kavanaghs match last years income, they are 110k better off straight away.
The way for shareholders to look at it, is not they have lost c17k or whatever, that was long gone, instead look at it as u have a share in a co worth minus 2 million , any egm and they would of needed another 5k ish each to keep going , that's all wiped and now u have no debts , no risks, no calls for once off sums going forward , no commitment to paying subs even after u stop playing golf, and all for 50 quid a month for 3 months !

Russman

I'm not familiar with the details of the loans etc etc (and had kinda stopped reading the last few posts in fairness ) that SCGC had/have, but is there not an issue with whatever security was given for these loans ? Are the banks on board with the rescue plan or do they have any call on the assets ?

GreeBo

carman2011 wrote: »

As far as I know , it's 70 per month for members on dd and new people also. I for one , have a few friends who might take this up, the place could be thriving with 600 members by end of year, then next years sub won't have to increase.

840 quid pp a year isnt going to run a golf club in my opinion.
Thats ~ 0.5 million with 600 members.
Your wages bill last year was 1m.
So you have half the staff employed and you still havent cut a blade of grass, bought any machinery, paid insurance, water, electricity....

carman2011 wrote: »

By killing off the old company , the 50k per year in revenue arrears and 60k interest on old loans dies, so if the kavanaghs match last years income, they are 110k better off straight away.

How does it die? Unless you are saying that all of that money was just owed to the Kavanaghs and they are willing to ignore it (in return being given a golf club) I dont see how any other creditors are just going to drop their owed monies?

carman2011 wrote: »

The way for shareholders to look at it, is not they have lost c17k or whatever, that was long gone, instead look at it as u have a share in a co worth minus 2 million , any egm and they would of needed another 5k ish each to keep going , that's all wiped and now u have no debts , no risks, no calls for once off sums going forward , no commitment to paying subs even after u stop playing golf, and all for 50 quid a month for 3 months !

And what happens after that 3 months? How much were SC spending a year on running the club

TallaghtHoop

Delighted for the members of SC that they seem to have a resolution that suits the majority. Would be a shame to lose such a good course. Really hope it works out for them.

carman2011

the whole point of the liquidation is that the debts die.
the company is being wound up, so whatever assets their are deemed to be, ie cash on hand, the clubhouse etc, is divied out the creditors.
the preferrential creditors are paid first, this would be redundancies to the staff, then revenue, then the bank, the shareholders are paid last.
The revenue and bank will have to take a hit, its very unlikely there will be anything left to give to the shareholders.
The balance of negative reserves dies when the company is finally wound up.

Also, the 70 per month is just for this year, given 600 members, i would imagine they will charge about 1,100 to all for next year.

the clubhouse is on the land owned by the kavanaghs, who would control all access rights. The best course of action imo would be for the liquidators to sell the clubhouse to the kavanaghs.

(the revenue will usually accept the directors choice for liquidator, as will the bank, it would be in the best interest of all concerned to allow a liquidator who will not tear up the course etc, (all this will do will get more money for the revenue/bank, and knacker the club going forward imo))

with a clean and quicker liquidation, the new proposal will be up and running quicker and we can all be back playing golf on the course soon under this new proposal.

also, the wage bill in our 2011 accounts, including wages to greenkeepers and staff was 466,942 (including social welfare costs), not sure where u got the 1m from.

dangerous golfer

Lads, something that has stuck with me from last night, was the talk that regardless of staying with the New SC, or moving on, I will have to pay the GUI at some point, and I am free to play Opens at present.

The standout option to me (if possible) is to send the GUI the money I owe them, and just play opens for the rest of this year, is that viable?

I'll keep an eye on SC during that time, but once bitten, twice shy and all that.

Whyner

Cutbacks Greebo, simple.

We were spending too much in the first place.
Maybe some voluntary work from the members (rangers/starters)
A dip in course standard
Fund raising
A simple Spike bar to begin with
etc...

If we pull together of course it's possible to survive.

Whyner

dangerous golfer wrote: »

The standout option to me (if possible) is to send the GUI the money I owe them, and just play opens for the rest of this year, is that viable?

Yes, we have been given "some" time from the GUI to sort out things

Russman

carman2011 wrote: »

, (all this will do will get more money for the revenue/bank, and knacker the club going forward imo))

But is that not what the liquidator will try to do ? He won't give a f--k about the viability or otherwise of the club.
Unless he's a golfer himself

dangerous golfer

Whyner wrote: »

Yes, we have been given "some" time from the GUI to sort out things

No brainer in my opinion so.

I can play comps in SC, without having a DD set up to a millionaires bank account.