South County GC Closed

Stoorie

So the point has been made 22 times and still some posters don't get it. Maybe it needs made a 23rd time!

And no thanks for the prize BTW.

matt-dublin

Sandwlch wrote: »

How about a quiz interlude from this heavy going:

Take a guess (no cheating!) how many time the above point, which turned into a droning moan, has been made in this thread:
1) 15
2) 21
3) 634
4) Atari Jaguar

A years membership in Beach Park may or may not be on offer to the first to post the correct answer.

I choose 4... Atari Jaguar!

then 3.

Gambino

Golfingfanatic wrote: »

Gambino,

The shareholders who met in the Eden were not griping and they were not plotting a coup. They met to devise a reasoned approach to the Board to discuss their concerns about the club's situation and the apparent dismissive and arrogant attitude of some of the board members.

You claim that shareholders did not honour their commitments. Perhaps you'd like to comment on the fact that the wife of one board member was allowed to sell/surrender her share, thus relieving her of any future commitments?

Perhaps you might also like to comment on whether or not a particularly unpopular board member "adopted" a random membership enquiry in order to disadvantage his fellow shareholders and have his loan repaid om the basis that he introduced the applicant?

Perhaps you might also like to comment on the unacceptable behaviour of one board member in remonstrating with a member over his subscription renewal (before the payment deadline) in front of other members?

Perhaps you might like to comment on the aggressively negative stance taken by the president when a well-intentioned and helpful suggestion was made to him by an up to that point loyal member?

Unsupported allegations do not merit comment.
I was not at the Eden meeting but from what I was told by (a) those who were invited and (b) those who attended, the agenda covered more than devising a "reasoned approach" to talking to the board. Howver if you want to give us a summary of what was discussed, I am sure some will be interested.

Gambino

matt-dublin wrote: »

i would have thought that if the shareholders chose to leave the club they would be entitled to the cash share back no?

Only when the number of shares reached a specific number. I think that number was 620 or 640 - neither figure was reached.

Until then, shareholders were obliged to pay their subs. If they wished to surrender their shares they could do so, but for no recompence. The same applied to those downgrading their membership category.

Until they surrendered their shares, they were liable for their subs and as such, are debtors. It is very clear in the Memorandum and Articles of Association.

Whyner

Gambino wrote: »

Unsupported allegations do not merit comment.
I was not at the Eden meeting but from what I was told by (a) those who were invited and (b) those who attended, the agenda covered more than devising a "reasoned approach" to talking to the board. Howver if you want to give us a summary of what was discussed, I am sure some will be interested.

Sounds like you're being very selective on where you wish to comment

I don't want to identify you but are you particularly friendly with those on the board? It's pretty easy to guess why you weren't in the Eden that night

Anyway, more info sent out just now from the landlord, things are looking very promising. Hopefully I'll be back up collecting .1s in SC come July

Gambino

E mail and letter just circulated by the Kavanaghs (as South County Golf Club 2012)

Main points;
- The Kavanaghs are proprieters of the club
- The club is debt free and the proprieters believe that income from subs, green fees, societies etc will cover operational costs.
- They have already invested €100,000 in course maintenance.
- 3 full time staff working on the course. Investing heavily in new equipment.
- Consulting with experts but also want member feedback on course condition
- Working on getting a new bar licence. Bar will reopen then (no date given)
- Talking to contract caterers about providing a full menu. Bar will be refurbished
- Hope to have pro shop operational "in coming weeks", with a full time pro
- GUI/ILGU affiliation "very shortly"
- Playing costs for remainder 2012 as previously outlined.
- 2013 subscription proposed at €1,080

Gambino

Whyner wrote: »

Sounds like you're being very selective on where you wish to comment

I don't want to identify you but are you particularly friendly with those on the board? It's pretty easy to guess why you weren't in the Eden that night

Anyway, more info sent out just now from the landlord, things are looking very promising. Hopefully I'll be back up collecting .1s in SC come July

No, I am not friendly with anyone on the board. I wasn't at the Eden because I wasn't invited.

Ding Ding

As I have said repeatedly the board failed in the communication stakes, so also have the committee.

It would appear that they have failed to reach agreement despite the lengthy passage of time so a new club will be formed on the course.

So this is a clean sheet which is probably the best solution of the lot.








 

carman2011

this is insane.
the committee have been spending hours tirelessly trying to negotiate the best way forward with the kavanaghs in the last few weeks.
only wednesday night, there was a 4 hour meeting, at which richard kavanagh was present.

now, this new proposal is sent around, taking the committee out of the loop, (i just had this confirmed to me by a committee member on the phone) the kavanaghs now want to set up their own gui affiliation (this will take months)
as of the end of the day, if the committee is no more, no one is maintaining our handicaps, and they will lapse (ive several open comps in the next 2 weeks already booked)
furthermore, i never gave my information to richard kavanagh, and was contacted by email, which is hugely in breach of laws governing data protection.

gboru

Just read the email sent by the 'new club' - I am assuming the guy who sent it is a relation of the landowners? I have never heard of him. I am one of those members who has been waiting in the wings to see what happens and if we are going back. It seems there has been a breakdown in the negotiation and the Kavanaghs have decided to go it alone. I also noted the thing about GUI affiliation and just called their HQ. According the GUI the process for affiliation starts with filling in a ream of paperwork, having committees in place, a club constitution or articles of association etc. They said that once they receive all that it then goes to committee. They said that there are no committee meetings over the summer and the next one scheduled is in September or possibly October. They said I should be expecting a Jan/Feb 2013 decision on affiliation as it can take that long. So, the Kavanagh saying they will have it soon is a bit of a stretch????

Ding Ding

Kavanaghs are on the right track, clean slate, committee have been far too slow, and treated members like mushrooms (kept in dark and fed .....) with garbage updates, then a little tantrum update last week. Fighting over keeping vice captain and the like is bull, it's a golf club not a political party!

Here's to a brand new start!

ArielAtom

The club cannot be run without a committee. Who is going to do it??

gboru

Official Rules on affiliating a golf club......

1.3 The club shall:-
1.3.1 Have a minimum of 25 amateur voting male members, provided however a club may elect to its membership a person who is a professional golfer who shall be allowed to compete only in the club’s domestic competitions and whose scores cannot be used in assessing the Competition Scratch Score in Qualifying Competitions under the CONGU Unified Handicapping System.

1.3.2 Comprise of at least the following officers: Captain, Hon. Secretary and or Hon. Treasurer.
1.3.3. Appoint a Handicapping Sub-Committee, all of whom shall be male
members of the club, which shall have complete control of men’s handicapping matters in the club.
1.3.4 Accept and comply with the Rules of Golf as approved by the R & A.
1.3.5 Accept and comply with the Rules of Amateur Status as approved by the R & A.
1.3.6 Accept and comply with the UHS prescribed by CONGU and such rules thereunder as may require to be implemented from time to time by the GUI.
1.3.7 Undertake in writing:
1.3.7.1 to be bound by the Constitution of the GUI
1.3.7.2 to conform with the Bye-Laws of the GUI
1.3.7.3 to conform with the Bye-Laws of its Provincial Branch
1.3.7.4 to retain Handicap Records in respect of all present and past Members for not less than the current year and previous two calendar years and retain all score cards until the end of the current handicap year. Handicap Records for all Playing Members must be returned to the Union or Area Authority should the club cease to be affiliated.
1.4 Subject to the above provisions any such group may be admitted to membership of the GUI and become an Affiliated Golf Club subject to the provisio that:
1.4.1 a club shall not be entitled to membership if an owner of a proprietary facility or a limited company formed by or on behalf of such owner of the lands on which the course or links has been constructed exercises any control over the affairs of the club contrary to the provisions of these rules.

2.1 Admission to membership of the GUI as a club shall be conditional on the following:-
2.1.1 the applicant can only be a club as provided in Rule 10.
2.1.2 The application for membership must have been considered and approved by the majority of the members of the club present and voting at a Special General Meeting convened for that purpose.
2.1.3 The application for membership can only be made on the form prescribed by the Bye-Laws of the GUI which may be obtained from either the GUI or a Provincial Branch Office.
2.1.4 The completed form must be accompanied by:
2.1.4.1 the appropriate fee fixed from time to time by the Central Council.
2.1.4.2 a copy of the proposed Constitution of the applicant. (Note: until approved by the GUI the Constitution should not be adopted by the applicant).
2.1.4.3 the completed and signed undertaking as prescribed in Sub-Clause 10.3.7
2.1.4.4 a copy of the minutes of the Special General Meeting held in compliance with Sub-Clause 11.1.2 signed by the Chairperson thereat.
2.1.4.5 confirmation in writing that the provisions of Sub- Clauses 10.2.1 and 10.2.2 are in place.
2.1.4.5 a certificate of measurement of the course(s) the subject of the application carried out by a qualified professional surveyor.
2.1.4.7 "all agreements in writing made between the applicant and the proprietary owner or any company formed by or on behalf of the proprietary owner, together with an undertaking by the applicant that any agreements made subsequently between the aforementioned parties shall be submitted immediately for approval to the Golfing Union of Ireland".

2.2 The documents and fee detailed in Sub-Clause 11.1.4 must be forwarded to the office of the Provincial Branch in whose Province the course or links the subject of the application is situate.
2.3 The Provincial Council of the Branch concerned shall:-
11.3.1 Forward the proposed draft Constitution and the other documents to GUI Headquarters so that the Central Council can satisfy itself that the Constitution and documents comply with the provisions of the Constitution of the GUI.
2.3.2 On being advised that the proposed Constitution and other documents are in order, appoint not less than two of its members to visit and inspect:
2.3.2.1 the course or links to ascertain if it warrants the allocation of a Standard Scratch Rating in compliance with Sub-Clause 10.2.1
2.3.2.2 the clubhouse facilities in compliance with Sub-Clause 1.2.2.

Gambino

It would be very unfortunate if the Kavanagh-Committee relations have broken down. I would hope we will get the Committee's side of the story very quickly. Having said that, a club without a committee has some work to do. A committee without a club is an irrelevance.

ArielAtom

The committee I assume will be calling a meeting to let the members know what is really happening?

Golfingfanatic

Gambino wrote: »

Unsupported allegations do not merit comment.
I was not at the Eden meeting but from what I was told by (a) those who were invited and (b) those who attended, the agenda covered more than devising a "reasoned approach" to talking to the board. Howver if you want to give us a summary of what was discussed, I am sure some will be interested.

I was there at the Eden and you are either totally misinformed or being disingenuous. As for the other "allegations ", all three are and can be supported, unlike a lot of the drivel you post. It's the prospect of having to share a facility with your ilk that I have decided to look elsewhere for my golf. South County is welcome to you and your know-all sarcasm. You are a sad case indeed!

Gambino

Golfingfanatic wrote: »

I was there at the Eden and you are either totally misinformed or being disingenuous. As for the other "allegations ", all three are and can be supported, unlike a lot of the drivel you post. It's the prospect of having to share a facility with your ilk that I have decided to look elsewhere for my golf. South County is welcome to you and your know-all sarcasm. You are a sad case indeed!

Easily fixed. Just post the rough minutes of what happened at the Eden and we'll judge for ourselves. As for the other "allegations", a bit of collateral wouldn't go amiss. I'm not too bothered about the "unnaceptable behaviour" and "aggresivley negative" stuff. That after all is a matter of opinion and in the eye of the beholder. Some of us might even have agreed with it.

Gambino

ArielAtom wrote: »

The committee I assume will be calling a meeting to let the members know what is really happening?

At a minimum we should get an email.

ArielAtom

Gambino wrote: »

Easily fixed. Just post the rough minutes of what happened at the Eden and we'll judge for ourselves. As for the other "allegations", a bit of collateral wouldn't go amiss. I'm not too bothered about the "unnaceptable behaviour" and "aggresivley negative" stuff. That after all is a matter of opinion and in the eye of the beholder. Some of us might even have agreed with it.

If golfingfanatic was at the Eden meeting can you not just accept his account of what went on. As you have stated in past posts getting it third party from someone in the pub you know is not the same.

Gambino

ArielAtom wrote: »

If golfingfanatic was at the Eden meeting can you not just accept his account of what went on. As you have stated in past posts getting it third party from someone in the pub you know is not the same.

Quite right, except that the accounts I got of both the calls to invite them to the Eden and of what happened were detailed, included who said what and a summary of the outcome. Non of that tallies with golfingfanatics version so I am suggesting he publish his account and well see if others who were there confirm it.

ArielAtom

Gambino wrote: »

Quite right, except that the accounts I got of both the calls to invite them to the Eden and of what happened were detailed, included who said what and a summary of the outcome. Non of that tallies with golfingfanatics version so I am suggesting he publish his account and well see if others who were there confirm it.

Your accounts are Third hand, not good enough. Sorry but I'm operating off your rules now Gambino.

Gambino

ArielAtom wrote: »

Your accounts are Third hand, not good enough. Sorry but I'm operating off your rules now Gambino.

Fair enough. Ill see if I can persuade my sources to join the fun. Meanwhile, anyone want to open a book on which members contribution was described as "a disgrace"?

ArielAtom

Gambino wrote: »

Fair enough. Ill see if I can persuade my sources to join the fun. Meanwhile, anyone want to open a book on which members contribution was described as "a disgrace"?

I'm lost on the disgrace bit.

Ding Ding

ArielAtom wrote: »

Gambino wrote: »

Fair enough. Ill see if I can persuade my sources to join the fun. Meanwhile, anyone want to open a book on which members contribution was described as "a disgrace"?

I'm lost on the disgrace bit.

Ok both Gambino and Golfing Fanatic are right in different ways. I was there and as with any grouping there were different views expressed.

There was a couple of spanners with the coup type approach from the experienced 'board basher' contingent, basically they ranted. There were others concerned about direction if club. There were others who had genuine misplaced sympathy for 'wont pay' people disguising as 'can't pay'.

As regards new setup, let's fully support it, the board and committee have proven themselves equally garbage at communication so the loss if these is great news. Yes we ll hear about all the efforts but treating members as gob****es and not updating them is unacceptable so fair play to the Kavanaghs for firing ahead.

cherryman

I presume you all recived the mail from Richard Kavanagh. I am concerned about how he got my personal details. There must be a breach of Data Protection here as I certainly did not give permission to the club to release my personal details. I believe this is a serious issue and is taken very seriously by the Data Protection office. Anyone concerned like I am?

sodbuster77

cherryman wrote: »

I presume you all recived the mail from Richard Kavanagh. I am concerned about how he got my personal details. There must be a breach of Data Protection here as I certainly did not give permission to the club to release my personal details. I believe this is a serious issue and is taken very seriously by the Data Protection office. Anyone concerned like I am?

I hit the unsubscribe button at the bottom of the page. If I get another e-mail I will be contacting him directly

Ding Ding

sodbuster77 wrote: »

cherryman wrote: »

I presume you all recived the mail from Richard Kavanagh. I am concerned about how he got my personal details. There must be a breach of Data Protection here as I certainly did not give permission to the club to release my personal details. I believe this is a serious issue and is taken very seriously by the Data Protection office. Anyone concerned like I am?

I hit the unsubscribe button at the bottom of the page. If I get another e-mail I will be contacting him directly

Lads, nothing to worry about, the commissioner will have a good laugh if you contact him.

The landowners have taken back their property, and on their property was a clubhouse, your old club had your details, so the owners would have had access to anything they wanted on their property plus they have purchased some stuff from liquidators.

Sure call tallaght Garda station and report your balls lost and now possibly stolen by the new owners. Please tape the call so we can all have a laugh.

New club, new management, no debt, no headaches, this is a great result. For those who will miss the politics and scrapping, try joining your local cumann. The rest of us just want to hit a little white ball around a field which is what golf is, not a power play or any of that other crap.

I think I advised here about the committee overplaying their role, they forgot they had no cards.

cherryman

I just recieved this in my mail:Dear South County Member,
1. The email from Richard Kavanagh that you may have received today (22nd June) did not come from the South County Committees.
2. A meeting of members will be held on Monday 25th June in Citywest Hotel @ 8pm.
3. We will explain where we stand in relation to the golf course.
Michael Moore Sheelagh Stubbs
Men's Captain Ladies Captain

Stoorie

I've moved on and joined another Club but my reaction is that the notice today from the Kavanaghs is the most positive piece of communication received to date.

Draw a line, form a new club, move forward. Good luck to all involved - I genuinely hope it works as it remains a really good golf course and I look forward to playing there again.

As for the Kavanaghs using my e-mail address - no issue. How else would I find out? I can't see anyone taking a data protection complaint too seriously but if others feel differently then, as always, that's their prerogative.

sodbuster77

Ding Ding wrote: »

sodbuster77 wrote: »

cherryman wrote: »

I presume you all recived the mail from Richard Kavanagh. I am concerned about how he got my personal details. There must be a breach of Data Protection here as I certainly did not give permission to the club to release my personal details. I believe this is a serious issue and is taken very seriously by the Data Protection office. Anyone concerned like I am?

I hit the unsubscribe button at the bottom of the page. If I get another e-mail I will be contacting him directly

Lads, nothing to worry about, the commissioner will have a good laugh if you contact him.

The landowners have taken back their property, and on their property was a clubhouse, your old club had your details, so the owners would have had access to anything they wanted on their property plus they have purchased some stuff from liquidators.

Sure call tallaght Garda station and report your balls lost and now possibly stolen by the new owners. Please tape the call so we can all have a laugh.

New club, new management, no debt, no headaches, this is a great result. For those who will miss the politics and scrapping, try joining your local cumann. The rest of us just want to hit a little white ball around a field which is what golf is, not a power play or any of that other crap.

I think I advised here about the committee overplaying their role, they forgot they had no cards.

I was talking about the Kavanaghs not the commissioner. If I want to read fantasy I'll pick up a copy of Lord of the Rings.