River Access

GoodMan55985

Hi There,

I was contacted by adjoining landowner saying he is going to make a ramp from his land to allow his cattle to drink in the river and looking for permission. This river is on our land. His land is higher than the river and no access at the moment. I am concerned about this as tampering with a boundary. Is it ok if the existing boundary is not changed? He says he will put two bars accross the gap to allow his cattle put their heads through to access the water in the river. Any thoughts on what to do?

CJhaughey

I'd be very careful, there could be issues with water quality if there is a large amount of cow dung in the area washing into the stream.
Then there is bank damage which could be very damaging in flood conditions.
I would be of the opinion that he should install a pump and bring the water up to a trough in his field.

Fat Cant

I don't think I would let him break the boundry if it was me . id Let him access to suck water out with a pump and that's about all .

the_syco

Would be be making a ramp on his land; ie; digging the ramp into his land, or will be adding a ramp from his land into the river? If the latter, I'd tell him to take a running jump. I'd probably tell him to take a running jump regardless, as if it was the former, he wouldn't be asking for your permission.

mayo_lad

GoodMan55985 wrote: »

Hi There,

I was contacted by adjoining landowner saying he is going to make a ramp from his land to allow his cattle to drink in the river and looking for permission. This river is on our land. His land is higher than the river and no access at the moment. I am concerned about this as tampering with a boundary. Is it ok if the existing boundary is not changed? He says he will put two bars accross the gap to allow his cattle put their heads through to access the water in the river. Any thoughts on what to do?

if it was me i'ed just tell him to install one of these it would be a far better job and as far as i can remmber you arn't alowed to have cows drinking streaght from a river.

http://www.riferam.com/pasture/index.html

GoodMan55985

He would be digging the ramp on his land so that the cattle can drink from the river as his land is higher than the river.

bbam

Do you think he'll be able to do it without compromising the river bank too much? How much is their field above the river, will it be on a straight of the river or a bend, a bend might be a bigger problem for erosion??

Do you allow cattle down to drink in the river or are you all fenced off and running drinkers?? It would be hard to make a deal out of possible contamination if your cattle are in the river already.

How good a neighbour is he ??
I'd be thinking of helping him out if it's possible at all..

49801

I would of thought a pasture pump like above would be a better solution all round. odonovan engineering in cork do them http://www.odonovaneng.ie/agricultural-products/cattle-products/cattle-drinkers/
think connacht agri and mullinhone do them too.

the_syco

And what happens when the river is running low? I agree with others; too many variables. The pump would be the best idea.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/ruralenvironmentprotectionschemereps/ruralenvironmentprotectionschemereps/latestrepsschemereps4/REPS4FamersHandbook_LowRes.pdf

Do not allow cattle to get within 1.5 metres of watercourses. Fences must be at least 1.5 metres from the top of the bank of the watercourse. You do not have to do this on land that is rented or leased, with less than 5 years to run, at the start of your REPS contract.

Milton09

GoodMan55985 wrote: »

He would be digging the ramp on his land so that the cattle can drink from the river as his land is higher than the river.

I'm confused, if he is digging on his land, why does he need your permission? Is the river the boundary ?

Bizzum

Milton09 wrote: »

I'm confused, if he is digging on his land, why does he need your permission? Is the river the boundary ?

You're not the only one confused. I can't imagine the set-up either. Any chance of a pic OP?

Is this ramp being talked about a drinking slip?

bbam

Typically the boundary is taken to be the ditch along the river.. So OP seems to be taking it that the river is on his side of the boundary... I did read somewhere that the boundary is down the centre of the river...

GoodMan55985

Yeah a drinking slip is the ramp idea. The river is on our land then ditch and then his land. The river is on our land fully. So yeah river is the division betwen ours and his

Farmer Pudsey

I allow him to install one of the nose pumps or there are other pumps that can pump water if there is a flow such as a diaphram pump and there are solar pumps.

Also get him to pay a nominal fee per year for the water to cover you in case that down the line the farm changes hands and the new owner thinks he own's the river.

Bizzum

If the neighbour digs a slip on his land as far as he can dig towards the river how near the water will he end up?

bob charles

i cant see all the fuss about digging a drinking slip, by the sounds of some of the replies I wouldnt like to be farming near some of you boyos . aslong as the drinking slip is fenced in such a way that his cattle dont cross the river during low water levels what difference does it make.

Farmer Pudsey

bob charles wrote: »

i cant see all the fuss about digging a drinking slip, by the sounds of some of the replies I wouldnt like to be farming near some of you boyos . aslong as the drinking slip is fenced in such a way that his cattle dont cross the river during low water levels what difference does it make.

I have seen thing like this seem no problem at the start land changes hands and suddenly it becomes a huge problem. Also if the fence is the bounds it is the bounds. By all means be neighbourly and give him water however nose pumps are quite cheap I think around 300 euro each two will sort 50 cattle. Other solutions such as solar water pumps and Diaphram pumps are no more expensive.

It seems no problem to allow a neighbour to dig a slope down to the river he fences it 3-4 years later a dry summer or maybe he will not keep current on it next thing the cattle are in the river and in your land it may be a silage field or a field of after grass. Or maybe after 2015 with the new greening conditions or you join a new type of reps and you get an inspection and there is mud and sh##e in the river.

Remember this is not because it is the middle of july and his well has run dry and he wants water in a hurry this could be like a puppy it could be for life. Have it sorted from the start and everyone knows where they stand. Maybe he might rent the land in 10 years time a ball#x rents it over stocks it cattle in the river and in your land and then it gets nasty.

GoodMan55985

Bizzum wrote: »

If the neighbour digs a slip on his land as far as he can dig towards the river how near the water will he end up?

He would be at the edge of the river if this done. I don't like this one bit breaking a boundary and then he could claim right of way into our land and cattle messing up the river. A pump would be best.

bob charles

GoodMan55985 wrote: »

he could claim right of way into our land and cattle messing up the river. A pump would be best.

I dont see how he could. I have a few rivers running through my lands that also act as boundaries and there are loads of slips from both sides and never a problem

Rovi

In my (limited!) experience of looking at farm boundaries, where it is defined by a permanent watercourse, the boundary has always (again, in my limited experience) run down the centre of the watercourse, with the adjoining landowners having equal access to 'their' side of the watercourse.

Are you CERTAIN you own the river in its entirety?
Do you own any land on the other side, or is the boundary defined by the riverbank?

Farmer Pudsey

there ia a large stream on my land the bounds is on the far side and it is a ditch/bank. so it is not unusal and if the other farmer owned half the river he would not be asking premission

Muckit

There seems to be no dispute whatsoever over the boundary in this case, so I don't know why people, intentionally or unintentionally, are stirring sh*t.

At the end of the day, it's up to the OP to decide what he wants to do.

However, If one was to be technical about it, OP you would be comprising your boundary by letting a neighbour's stock onto your land(the river). Put it this way, if you had a piped water trough just inside your hedge, would you entertain the proposition to open a gap and let the neighbours cattle in to use one half if it? How would you explain it to an inspector? SFP is valuable. Be a considerate and helpful neighbour, but don't be walked on. The pump idea sounds a good compromise if you want to be neighbourly.