Eminem

conor.hogan.2

horsebox09 wrote: »

Em could take a crap in a cd case and it would sell millions, as proved with Encore :pac: so you're right about his sales

On a side note, it looks like I'm the only one on here that likes Relapse; it's certainly ahead of Recovery for me

Encore!?! I thought that was a pretty good album.

Yes, not even Eminem likes Relapse.

Kylo Ren

He really was the one to get me properly into rap. Got the Marshal Mathers LP and was hooked. Was about 7 or 8. Must of listened to it twice a day for about a year!

conor.hogan.2

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I dunno if he killed Shady off then. I think a few of his songs from Relapse were still in that Slim vibe. I haven't a copy to play now so I can't say for certain. He definitely wasn't on Recovery anyway.

The more I think about Em maturing and his newer music not being as good, the more I place the blame on him maturing in the first place. His first 3 albums are among the most emotionally intense albums ever released I feel. He was in a certain drug-addled mindset at that stage and he was angry. He was angry with everyone from his mother, to Kim, to George Bush to white America.

He then took time off to sober up and reflect on his life. When he came back he was angry with Kim Kardashian and Britney. I think he was more at peace with himself and he tried to focus his anger at the drugs. That didn't really work out.

He was slightly better on Recovery. It didn't work again though. There was a kind of emotional disconnect on some of the songs. He was rapping about the same kind of things that he did early in his career but they didn't have nearly the same impact.

The death of Proof, his overdose and subsequent rehabilitation have taken a lot out of him as can be expected. It has definitely taken a lot of the creative and venomous bite out of his music. For that reason I don't think he'll ever hit his previous heights again. He may well put out another "Stan" or "Lose Yourself", but he'll never again have a classic.

He will continue to sell gazillions. The EP he put out with Royce last year was only the third EP in chart history to get to number 1. If Royce did that same EP with anyone else and had the exact same chemistry with them it'd have struggled to sell 20,000 I think. Em has the commercial "it" factor that everyone else in the industry strives to get for one single. He has had it for 13 years now, and he doesn't look like slowing down soon.

True. But he did the whole "killing of Em" in Curtains Call didn't he?

Agree with the rest, although there was some good tracks between his latest 2 albums but barely a handful.

horsebox09

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Encore!?! I thought that was a pretty good album.

Yes, not even Eminem likes Relapse.

Ass like That, Big Weenie, Rainman, Just Lose It, Encore is atrocious

Ah, Em took back his Relapse hate on the Bad Meets Evil EP

Deja Vu, Beautiful, Stay Wide Awake and Same Song & Dance > Recovery for me

danbrosnan

horsebox09 wrote: »

Ass like That, Big Weenie, Rainman, Just Lose It, Encore is atrocious

Ah, Em took back his Relapse hate on the Bad Meets Evil EP

Deja Vu, Beautiful, Stay Wide Awake and Same Song & Dance > Recovery for me

I don't know but am i the only one who taught that relapse had like 7 serious songs, just listened to it this morning on the way to work and said i'd post them ere:-

1:- Beautiful
2:- Same song and Dance
Deja Vu
3:- Hello
4:- Must be the Ganja
5:- My Mom (absolutely Hilarious)

Do people realize how hard it to release album after album and try to be different... I don't believe for a second that if eminem released a **** album it would sell, i think loyal fans would buy it because they like the artist... There is not a musician/rapper/painter/writer that has released a work of art that has been the best time after time... It's impossible...

Boom_Bap

danbrosnan wrote: »

There is not a musician/rapper/painter/writer that has released a work of art that has been the best time after time... It's impossible...

But there are plenty that have released great albums time after time while constantly evolving.
The Roots, Atmosphere, Outkast, Sage Francis, Aesop Rock, El-P all have done this.

But there are plenty that have been struggling, Nas is a prime example. He has has some great albums, but some really weak moments over the course of his releases. i dont think that there is anyone that can argue that. He has had some solid singles, but alot of filler on albums.

Even back in the day, Big Daddy Kane fell to this and was ridiculed for The Price of Darkness. Eric B. & Rakim got some negative press for one of thier albums too.

In relation to Eminem, I think that he lost his way but is slowly getting back to where he should be. There are one or 2 stong moments on Relapse, a few more on Recovery, and a huge stride forward on Bad meets Evil. Perhaps surrounding himself creatively with others has given him a boost. And with Slaughterhouse and Yela, he may get inspiration from them. and hopefully, they are strong enough to tell him if he is doing something wrong.

For every great artist, there is someone who should be 100% honest and trusted to give critical feedback. My personal view on Em is that he didnt respond to any feeback, or people were too afraid to speak up because he was a superstar.

I listened to an interview with Slug from Atmosphere recently and he credits where he is today because of Brother Ali, Sadiq and Murs because they are not afraid to tell him when he is doing something wrong. I think that Brother Ali has also said the same of Slug.

There is also a reading by Blueprint of the first chapter of his book about this. He basically talks about how a drunk guy after a show hijacked an interview and started giving him critical feeback on his music and career. He basically ignored the guy and got angry about what was being said to him. But 5 years later, he realises the guy was right and made complete sense. He has since used snippets of the interview on the intro to his most recent album. It took him about 5 years to accept criticism, musicians are a stubborn breed!

mufcboy1999

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

DMX is still good live, less so than before but in fairness he is not even comparable to paint dry Eminem at Coachella.

Ye, Depression he had it. Rapping should not be a priority for him if he was still seriously depressed. I doubt he still is depressed, he is off the sleeping pills and has released 2 albums.

Agreed he is the biggest rapper and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future, does not make him immune to criticism.

It was said in this forum (I think by Boom_Bap although I could be wrong) that Eminem could release anything and go multi-platinum so I don't think the selling high holds much weight. Comparing sales to his previous albums is fairer.

i never said dmx wasnt but my whole point was the paint dry em performing is still showing obvious signs of battling his demons and who can blame him. just because he is clean doesnt mean he mentally/emotionally over his problems, anyone can put on a brave face and pretend to be over it but what goes on behind closed doors we'l never know.

i never said he was immune to criticism either but i do think recovery is catching unfair criticism especially from a few here. Most of us have come to terms with relapse being a bad album and like we said even em has confessed it but recovery is a great album and an obvious sign that the man still makes great music.

once again for those of you wanting the old eminem , that was relapse and look how that turned out!

and on the sales side of things, crack a bottle set a digital record for a single when it was released and recovery is the highest selling album from any genre in 2010 on itunes so your wrong there. Every rappers sales have taking a bump not just eminem so that argument is pointless, this is the digital era where things work different.

http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.13273/title.eminems-recovery-named-itunes-best-selling-album-of-2010

conor.hogan.2

True we will never know. I would hope he would not be performing and releasing albums if he wasn't back to similar mental standings before the hiatus but who knows.
Personally I think it was the drugs that made him the hyped performer he was and know they are gone plus Proof was great on stage with him and he is also sadly gone.

Recovery is a good album. Nowhere near other albums of that year but a great album no doubt.

I do not want the old Eminem. I want progression and less filler. Boom_Bap listed a good set of artists around pretty much as long as Em and who have all progressed steadily.

Eminem always sells buckets and was already the highest selling rap artist before this and one of the highest in general but his selling took a massive massive dip with Relapse and increased a bit with Recovery.

Look at Jay-z sales (he is probably the 2nd highest rap star atm) they did not take such a massive dip.

mufcboy1999

True we will never know. I would hope he would not be performing and releasing albums if he wasn't back to similar mental standings before the hiatus but who knows.
Personally I think it was the drugs that made him the hyped performer he was and know they are gone plus Proof was great on stage with him and he is also sadly gone.

but he was releasing music in a bad mind frame, that was relapse !. id agree the drugs would do that to any of us, thats what i mean proof was a great hype man bound to miss him when he performs.

Recovery is a good album. Nowhere near other albums of that year but a great album no doubt.

i suppose thats down to opinion, it was one of my favorites from 2010.

I do not want the old Eminem. I want progression and less filler. Boom_Bap listed a good set of artists around pretty much as long as Em and who have all progressed steadily.

recovery was progression man, you cant say it wasnt. eminem never showed us that level of maturity on an album before , fair enough it might of had a bit of filler but tbh most albums do from mainstream rappers. the likes of nas, kanye and jay etc are all guilty of it.

Eminem always sells buckets and was already the highest selling rap artist before this and one of the highest in general but his selling took a massive massive dip with Relapse and increased a bit with Recovery.

this is what im trying to say, the digital era that we are in is completely different to that of the past. The sales are not consistent and 9/10 rappers have taken a hit.

im not including the likes of drake,niki and wayne because their pop and how they pass for hip hop is beyond me but take the likes of rick ross (considered the hottest rapper atm) never does big numbers, never has had a platinum album or album go gold 1st week my point sales are dipping for everyone even eminem.

you know yourself how easy it is to download music instead of paying for it, this is the digital era. long gone are the days when you had to actually go out buy what you want to hear.

Look at Jay-z sales (he is probably the 2nd highest rap star atm) they did not take such a massive dip.

ye your right think it was just under 500'000 for bp3, but thats it jay z has always been in and around that figure tbh as far as 1st week sales go but Its easy to think because he had consecutive number 1 albums that he sells great.

jay z's albums combined are whats impressive but thats what like 11 albums and 2 or 3 collab albums? the likes of 50 has done close to jay z's numbers with 3 albums and thats a fact with the likes of get rich not far away from going diamond, think its 8 or 9 times platinum. jay z was never up with the likes of em in regards to sales and the only reason bp3 sold well enough was because it was his most commercial album so far with pop like singles with rhianna etc.

being beyonce's husband with pop stars like rhianna to call upon when he needs to break the commercial market has helped keep jay z relevant because his last few albums have been absolute muck and iv got all of them bar kingdom come and the dynasty. kanye saved him on WTT, jay was incredibly hard to listen to on it imo.

conor.hogan.2

All opinion and my eyes are killing me so I won't respond to all.

Recovery was progression on some of the songs but it was nowhere near as "mature" as several other previous eminem songs or albums.

Jay-Z has never done Eminem numbers, no one hip-hop has done Eminem numbers. But my point is Jay-z has not taking such a massive hit in numbers unlike Eminem so it is not just the "digital era" to blame.

Jay-Z has always played down Beyonce. They didn't even say they were dating for years. Plus Jay-Z helped bring Rihanna up and now he shouldn't have her on his songs?

50 has some amazing numbers albums wise (the first few anyway) but then again he was working crazy hard building a strong strong new york buzz for years and then signed with Shady/Aftermath so not shocking. Jay is Jay, his numbers are pretty much all his much like Eminems.

mufcboy1999

i wont answer it all myself because i havnt much energy left to go back and forth more than we already have.

Jay-Z has never done Eminem numbers, no one hip-hop has done Eminem numbers. But my point is Jay-z has not taking such a massive hit in numbers unlike Eminem so it is not just the "digital era" to blame.

exactly he's always done average to good numbers so there was no real hit to take for him because he never done amazing numbers like eminem.

what hit has em took though? his last album was the highest selling album of 2010 ... that is a huge achievement for this current climate for selling music, no hip hop artist has come close to recovery in recent years.

Jay-Z has always played down Beyonce. They didn't even say they were dating for years. Plus Jay-Z helped bring Rihanna up and now he shouldn't have her on his songs?

look lets be honest here, everyone outside of hip hop knows jay z as beyonces husband, its done his career on a global stage wonders. ye i know rhianna is his artist but thats my point he has 2 of the biggest pop stars in his pocket, his exposure in there videos has helped keep a near 50 year old relevant outside the states.

conor.hogan.2

No. It is about scale. He has good numbers hip-hop wise and did not take such a massive massive hit in sales like Eminem. Look at the numbers and look at the drop comparatively between the two.

Again I am not debating he is still no1 hip-hop wise. I said that. I am talking actual numbers. You have to look at it comparatively and you will see that Eminem has dropped percentage wise way down when compared to Jay for example. It is not just a "higher you are the further you fall" sort of thing either I think it is because of the quality drop in albums for Eminem when compared with Jay for example (and I don't even particularly like Jay so don't get me wrong on that front I think Em out raps him overall)

They only got married recently. Before that it was very very hush hush. Eminem has many stars by his side too (slaughterhouse and yela have helped him a lot much like 50 did before etc) plus he has a lot more controversy and general buzz around him because of all the bad things in and around his hiatus.

Now I know they aren't pop stars. But Jay has not played the rihanna or beyonce card anymore than Eminem has used Dre/50/SH/controversy etc

They are both just incidentals and of course they will both use whatever is there for them they would be idiots not to.

Anyway - boils down to me thinking the last 2 albums as a whole sucked overall and you think they did not.

No need to back and forth.

Jimmy Iovine

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

No. It is about scale. He has good numbers hip-hop wise and did not take such a massive massive hit in sales like Eminem. Look at the numbers and look at the drop comparatively between the two.

Again I am not debating he is still no1 hip-hop wise. I said that. I am talking actual numbers. You have to look at it comparatively and you will see that Eminem has dropped percentage wise way down when compared to Jay for example. It is not just a "higher you are the further you fall" sort of thing either I think it is because of the quality drop in albums for Eminem when compared with Jay for example (and I don't even particularly like Jay so don't get me wrong on that front I think Em out raps him overall)

I think you're being quite unfair on Eminem (not that he gives a damn).

While I think that he is always going to be able to outsell almost everyone else in the industry you can't really compare his sales now to the sales of the early '00s. Back when he came on the scene everyone had money to be spending on albums and there really wasn't any hope of being able to download the album.

Nowadays everyone and anyone with access to a computer can get his entire back catalogue with the click of a button and it's on their iPod in 10/15 minutes. This development has hit record sales a huge amount. There are annual decreases and it has been happening since the release of The Eminem Show. It was one of the last albums to sell 10 million in the US in the last decade.

Then you have to consider that Eminem was a cultural and commercial monster in the early '00s. He was everywhere. 3 albums in 3 years. Then he had a film as well. He could do no wrong.

I don't think we'll ever see an artist with the 3/4 year stretch that he enjoyed. He was a once in a generation cultural phenomenon who came in at just the right time. 5 years earlier and he'd have been competing with Biggie and Tupac. 5 years later and he'd have been competing with declining album sales and a rise in internet downloads.

Jigga doesn't come close to Eminem for sales. 50 is the only one who ever really challenged him but that was years ago. The same with Outkast and their double album. Even Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber aren't within a donkeys roar of '00s Eminem. And that's pretty amazing considering the ridiculously obsessive nature of their fans.

That he managed to sell 4 million copies of a pretty average album (Recovery) shows that he still has got it with regard to sales. But not so much with the quality of the output. Hopefully he can get it back together again.

conor.hogan.2

I don't think I am. I still listen to him and am waiting for more of him. But the last two albums were "ehhh".

Of course he is still massive. Ridiculously massive. Sold more than 2pac.

60m+ in 5 years over 4 albums (and on the chronic and 50 etc) speaks for itself and he is more a household name than Jay or anyone else really.

Underground

Wow. Just noticed this thread now and there are one or to things that stand out for me.

Firstly, I find it very worrying that people can put Eminem's downfall in his music down to him becoming sober. I think the even sadder part is that even Eminem himself is convinced that coming down off drugs was what caused the mediocre music.

It's a ridiculous notion to suggest and as was mentioned earlier, the key component which caused his music to become a bit shít was when he somehow got it into his head that he's a great producer. I remember when he produced The Cross for Nas on God's Son and thinking to myself "this is probably the worst beat I've ever heard." He was off his tits on drugs on Encore and that album was dire, so the "coming down" argument really has no substance at all.

Also, to suggest that he's not progressing as an artist is a bit odd. Recovery,although a bit cheesy,was by far his most "grown-up" effort to date. Seems to be coming more into his own these days and he was definitely on form on the EP with Royce.

conor.hogan.2

Encore was a masterpiece compared to the last 2 albums. Even Eminem would agree with that I am sure.

He was good with Royce.
With Royce, Royce was good and Eminem (formally being a great MC) was improved greatly by bringing back Royce/bad meets evil. Royce upped Eminem by being around.

Neither of those last 2 albums were his most "grown up", they had some great songs which were "grown up" but not compared to the rest of his songs.

jonneymendoza

His last album was a masterpiece/ better then encore. dunno why people diddnt like it.

he is probably my favourite rapper of all time or in teh same league as biggie and tupac. easily

Bobby Baccala

jonneymendoza wrote: »

His last album was a masterpiece/ better then encore. dunno why people diddnt like it.

he is probably my favourite rapper of all time or in teh same league as biggie and tupac. easily

Masterpiece? What albums are you comparing this to as a masterpiece?
Because i could name a rake of albums that make his last album look shít. which it was for the most part.

just out of interest, what other albums would you describe as a masterpiece?

jonneymendoza

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Masterpiece? What albums are you comparing this to as a masterpiece?
Because i could name a rake of albums that make his last album look shít. which it was for the most part.

just out of interest, what other albums would you describe as a masterpiece?

Loads, Ti. Ludacris, 50 cent, jay z, kanye west etc etc. he is IMO better then all of those rappers hands down.

Nas and Eminem: same bracket ie world class rappers mate.

Bobby Baccala

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Loads, Ti. Ludacris, 50 cent, jay z, kanye west etc etc. he is IMO better then all of those rappers hands down.

Nas and Eminem: same bracket ie world class rappers mate.

I said what albums, not artists.

jonneymendoza

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

I said what albums, not artists.

well all their recent ones from those very same artists with the exception of kanye west last one which IMO was on par with eminem's last album.

Bobby Baccala

jonneymendoza wrote: »

well all their recent ones from those very same artists with the exception of kanye west last one which IMO was on par with eminem's last album.

None of their recent albums are even close to masterpieces. Any other ones you could think of because at the moment I'm not convinced. Eminems last work was lacking.

The MMLP or the SSLP could be labelled masterpieces but his last album? No way.

jonneymendoza

we all have different tastes in music

conor.hogan.2

Yes, we do.

But even Eminem himself would not say his last 2 albums were masterpieces. Most of the critics agreed too.

guitarzero

I remember kinda having a pretty bad notion of rappers back in the late 90's, even eminem. My sister bought his first and second album and it was like a slap in the face. I couldnt believe his word play and creativity, his ability to narrate and take on this character slim shady was just out of this world.

Jimmy Iovine

jonneymendoza wrote: »

well all their recent ones from those very same artists with the exception of kanye west last one which IMO was on par with eminem's last album.

That is the most outrageous comment I've read on this forum in a long, long time. I can't tell if you believe it, or whether you're just having a laugh.

"My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" was a genuine masterpiece. Every single is amazingly good. There is no one else in the music industry that could have pulled this album off. It's on a scale that would intimidate other artists and if it was attempted by them it'd be a disaster. With Kanye at the helm it was always going to work.

The only way that "Recovery" could be mentioned in the same breath as it is with regard to album sales. On that front it wins by a landslide. The rest is pile of forgettable nonsense.

The production alone from Kanye on this album is better than every song that Eminem has produced in his entire career.

Everything about the actual album is better than Em has done since The Eminem Show.

conor.hogan.2

I suppose I should listen to MBDTF, my hip-hop consumption is stuck on 2009 pretty much with a few exceptions.

mufcboy1999

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

That is the most outrageous comment I've read on this forum in a long, long time. I can't tell if you believe it, or whether you're just having a laugh.

"My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" was a genuine masterpiece. Every single is amazingly good. There is no one else in the music industry that could have pulled this album off. It's on a scale that would intimidate other artists and if it was attempted by them it'd be a disaster. With Kanye at the helm it was always going to work.

The only way that "Recovery" could be mentioned in the same breath as it is with regard to album sales. On that front it wins by a landslide. The rest is pile of forgettable nonsense.

The production alone from Kanye on this album is better than every song that Eminem has produced in his entire career.

Everything about the actual album is better than Em has done since The Eminem Show.

a great album no doubt but there was a fair few horrible features on it aswell as some songs being unnecessarily over cooked and way too long. Also flashes of that horrible dreaded auto-tune. As far as the short track list, Monster was terrible, never liked power from the moment i heard it and who will survive in america is a bit rubbish too other than that a great album though but a masterpiece production wise yes, as far as hip hop albums go? i dont think so.

I also think mbdtf was a bit over rated for the simple fact it was kanye's return to rap/hip hop after that auto-tune rubbish he released before mbdtf. Like i said Production was excellent though far superior to recovery but in terms of actual rapping, eminem wipes the floor with kanye. People are going to say em was shouting bla bla, he was angry and had a point to prove after that rubbish relapse, it reflected through his music, he still showed he's a top drawer mc.

Lastly mbdtf still doesn't come close to kanye's first 3 albums either imo and there's obviously a few here that dont rate recovery , thats fair enough but it was a great come back album, I really dont know what people were expecting, the old eminem is gone, never to return for obvious reasons.

Jimmy Iovine

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I suppose I should listen to MBDTF, my hip-hop consumption is stuck on 2009 pretty much with a few exceptions.

Definitely. I didn't bother with it for a few months. Then I couldn't stop listening to it for months.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

a great album no doubt but there was a fair few horrible features on it aswell as some songs being unnecessarily over cooked and way too long. Also flashes of that horrible dreaded auto-tune. As far as the short track list, Monster was terrible, never liked power from the moment i heard it and who will survive in america is a bit rubbish too other than that a great album though but a masterpiece production wise yes, as far as hip hop albums go? i dont think so.

I also think mbdtf was a bit over rated for the simple fact it was kanye's return to rap/hip hop after that auto-tune rubbish he released before mbdtf. Like i said Production was excellent though far superior to recovery but in terms of actual rapping, eminem wipes the floor with kanye. People are going to say em was shouting bla bla, he was angry and had a point to prove after that rubbish relapse, it reflected through his music, he still showed he's a top drawer mc.

Lastly mbdtf still doesn't come close to kanye's first 3 albums either imo and there's obviously a few here that dont rate recovery , thats fair enough but it was a great come back album, I really dont know what people were expecting, the old eminem is gone, never to return for obvious reasons.

The brilliant features far outweigh the bad ones in my opinion. Jigga (on So Appalled), Pusha T, Cyhi, Raekwon and so on.

I don't think I've ever gotten to the last track on the album so can't really comment on "Who Will Survive...". I really like "Power". It's one of the few tracks that doesn't have a featured artist. Kanye'll never be a top-5 MC but he did okay on it. The production was top notch.

"All of the Lights" is one of the craziest songs I've ever heard. 11 of the biggest singers around are all featured on it. Somehow you don't really recognise any of them bar Rihanna and Cudi. You have to strain your ears to notice the others. Only Kanye could pull of something on as grand scale as this and have some good verses as well.

Em showed on some recent songs that he still has the skills. I think he has been sold short with beats though. He is working a new album. I'll reserve my judgement until after then. It needs to be very good though. Another poor one (in a critical sense) and it'll be hard for him to bounce back. I predict it'll sell above 800,000 in it's first week on the back of a Rihanna/(other popular female singer of the moment) feature on the lead single.

Mr. Rager

I'm starting to hate Rihanna.

Jimmy Iovine

Mr. Rager wrote: »

I'm starting to hate Rihanna.

Probably due to her over-exposure. She seems to be on most songs these days. All she really does is the hook as well. If she was contributing verses then she'd be alright.

One of the biggest surprises about WTT was that she was nowhere to be seen on it. Thankfully Frank Ocean was on there instead of her.

The collab she did with Em on Recovery was a marketing master-stroke. It went 5 times platinum in the US and sold over a million in the UK, and had 1.2 million downloads in Korea of all places.

I can't think of two other artists who could sell as many copies of a single nowadays. Especially when people are downloading songs for free at an alarming rate.

Despite some her annoying faults and over-exposure I'll never get sick of looking at her though. She's unreal.

Mr. Rager

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Probably due to her over-exposure. She seems to be on most songs these days. All she really does is the hook as well. If she was contributing verses then she'd be alright.

One of the biggest surprises about WTT was that she was nowhere to be seen on it. Thankfully Frank Ocean was on there instead of her.

The collab she did with Em on Recovery was a marketing master-stroke. It went 5 times platinum in the US and sold over a million in the UK, and had 1.2 million downloads in Korea of all places.

I can't think of two other artists who could sell as many copies of a single nowadays. Especially when people are downloading songs for free at an alarming rate.

Despite some her annoying faults and over-exposure I'll never get sick of looking at her though. She's unreal.

I'm just sick of her featuring in hip-hop over and over again. She ruins good songs, and makes bad ones worse.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd still fcuk with that hoe :P

mufcboy1999

The brilliant features far outweigh the bad ones in my opinion. Jigga (on So Appalled), Pusha T, Cyhi, Raekwon and so on.

I don't think I've ever gotten to the last track on the album so can't really comment on "Who Will Survive...". I really like "Power". It's one of the few tracks that doesn't have a featured artist. Kanye'll never be a top-5 MC but he did okay on it. The production was top notch.

agree with most of that, i suppose liking individual tracks is down to personal preference .

"All of the Lights" is one of the craziest songs I've ever heard. 11 of the biggest singers around are all featured on it. Somehow you don't really recognise any of them bar Rihanna and Cudi. You have to strain your ears to notice the others. Only Kanye could pull of something on as grand scale as this and have some good verses as well.

great song alright but imo there's a few ft's that dont blend well and like you said its hard to notice most of them on it. I think the song could of been less messy tbh. Maybe only kanye could pull that of is right his production skills are amongst the best in the game.

Em showed on some recent songs that he still has the skills. I think he has been sold short with beats though. He is working a new album. I'll reserve my judgement until after then. It needs to be very good though. Another poor one (in a critical sense) and it'll be hard for him to bounce back. I predict it'll sell above 800,000 in it's first week on the back of a Rihanna/(other popular female singer of the moment) feature on the lead single

ems ear for beats was always his biggest flaw imo. He's got a very unique style and sound though and its probably the reason most of his beats are tailor made to suit him. I think he was quoted as saying he always picks or makes the beats first and then writes the song around it. Iv never been a fan of the majority of his beats though but his flow,lryics etc just totally eclipse his mediocre choices, em is one of those rappers where a beat will never get the better of him.

Em will always sell more than any rapper too, its a given that nobody can touch him in the sales bracket. I really do think his next album will be recovery-like in most ways as far as the commercial element to it but i do think em got a good balance between making a commercially excepted album in recovery and actually getting his point across about what he was going through.

I think recovery might grow on a few here in the future, theres some gems on it. Take it for what it is, a come back album. The content is so relevant to the cause, it is infact a recovery album in so many ways

jonneymendoza

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

That is the most outrageous comment I've read on this forum in a long, long time. I can't tell if you believe it, or whether you're just having a laugh.

"My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" was a genuine masterpiece. Every single is amazingly good. There is no one else in the music industry that could have pulled this album off. It's on a scale that would intimidate other artists and if it was attempted by them it'd be a disaster. With Kanye at the helm it was always going to work.

The only way that "Recovery" could be mentioned in the same breath as it is with regard to album sales. On that front it wins by a landslide. The rest is pile of forgettable nonsense.

The production alone from Kanye on this album is better than every song that Eminem has produced in his entire career.

Everything about the actual album is better than Em has done since The Eminem Show.

rubbish.

Both albums were excellent. That was an amazing album by kanye. put jay z to shame mate but eminems last album was just as good IMO.

Kanye yes wins hands down in terms of production but for lyrics, eninem makes Kanye look like Justin bieber when rapping. That is why both albums are great and the last two good albums that have come out in hip hop for a very long time.

jonneymendoza

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

a great album no doubt but there was a fair few horrible features on it aswell as some songs being unnecessarily over cooked and way too long. Also flashes of that horrible dreaded auto-tune. As far as the short track list, Monster was terrible, never liked power from the moment i heard it and who will survive in america is a bit rubbish too other than that a great album though but a masterpiece production wise yes, as far as hip hop albums go? i dont think so.

I also think mbdtf was a bit over rated for the simple fact it was kanye's return to rap/hip hop after that auto-tune rubbish he released before mbdtf. Like i said Production was excellent though far superior to recovery but in terms of actual rapping, eminem wipes the floor with kanye. People are going to say em was shouting bla bla, he was angry and had a point to prove after that rubbish relapse, it reflected through his music, he still showed he's a top drawer mc.

Lastly mbdtf still doesn't come close to kanye's first 3 albums either imo and there's obviously a few here that dont rate recovery , thats fair enough but it was a great come back album, I really dont know what people were expecting, the old eminem is gone, never to return for obvious reasons.

thank u very much. exactly my point. Eminem destroyed Kanye as a rapper and last i heard, HIP HOP is about lyrics/flows first then beats.

Some of the best rappers alive rap on medicore beats like NAS. You all going to tell me that kanye west last album better then illmatic? lol

Bobby Baccala

jonneymendoza wrote: »

and last i heard, HIP HOP is about lyrics/flows first then beats.

Where did you here that? Because there's a lot more to Hip hop than rapping in fact Beats and DJing came before rapping when hip hop first came about.

Some of the best rappers alive rap on medicore beats like NAS. You all going to tell me that kanye west last album better then illmatic? lol

Nothing Kanye has brought out is better than illmatic, but that's down to the fact that the producers that worked on illmatic are greater than Kanye. There isn't many albums out there than can touch it production wise, silly comparison on your behalf man.


If you're gonna speak as if your word is bond then actually make sensible statements.

conor.hogan.2

Scrap that, not looking for more pointless discussion on this.

Underground

It's pretty much pointless to compare Em with Kanye.
Two completely different artists with completely different styles, almost polar opposites of each other.

jonneymendoza

Underground wrote: »

It's pretty much pointless to compare Em with Kanye.
Two completely different artists with completely different styles, almost polar opposites of each other.

No its not. They are both hip hop artists and therefore can be compared. By your definition, you cant compare ludacris to immortal technique(bet u dont even know him) for example.

jonneymendoza

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Nothing Kanye has brought out is better than illmatic, but that's down to the fact that the producers that worked on illmatic are greater than Kanye. There isn't many albums out there than can touch it production wise, silly comparison on your behalf man.


If you're gonna speak as if your word is bond then actually make sensible statements.

Sorry but your wrong. various people here said dark twistes fanastasy is a "masterpiece" whilst recoery is not lol. if that is a masterpiece then surely its comparable to illmatic which is a masterpiece. get it?

Boom_Bap

It looks like we are going around in circles here. Can you all please agree to disagree on this? The direction this discussion is going is not going to change anyones mind or opinion.

Can you keep this on the subject of Eminem please.

jonneymendoza

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It looks like we are going around in circles here. Can you all please agree to disagree on this? The direction this discussion is going is not going to change anyones mind or opinion.

Can you keep this on the subject of Eminem please.

i agree. but it seems that my opinions get dismisssed and slagged off while others opinions they try and come across as facts

Bobby Baccala

jonneymendoza wrote: »

you cant compare ludacris to immortal technique(bet u dont even know him) for example.

conor.hogan.2

He is Immortal Technique not some UAE Female rapper.

Jimmy Iovine

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

He is Immortal Technique not some UAE Female rapper.

United Arab Emirates?

conor.hogan.2

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

United Arab Emirates?

Yeah, random country.

Probably not grammatically correct, but yeah.

Underground

jonneymendoza wrote: »

No its not. They are both hip hop artists and therefore can be compared. By your definition, you cant compare ludacris to immortal technique(bet u dont even know him) for example.

And just what do you base that assumption on?

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Sorry but your wrong. various people here said dark twistes fanastasy is a "masterpiece" whilst recoery is not lol. if that is a masterpiece then surely its comparable to illmatic which is a masterpiece. get it?[/QUOTE]

jonneymendoza wrote: »

i agree. but it seems that my opinions get dismisssed and slagged off while others opinions they try and come across as facts

Contradicting yourself sunshine.

It's a discussion forum and everyone is entitled to an opinion. A little less condescending would be nice.

Boom_Bap

Do I have to write in bold to be heard? I'm not going to go through the last 6 or so post and infract everyone, so instead:

MOD WARNING - Any more off topic discussion is a ban of random length. And I mean anything that is not about Eminem and its ban city.

PrettyBoy

Was only talking about this with a mate of mine last night in the car, he had the Slim Shady LP on when he picked me up, listened to As The World Turns and Role Model, absolute genius...then later in the night when he was dropping me home the radio was on and what comes, Lighters with Bruno Mars...if this thread wasn't here already I probably would have started it today..first time I've listened to SSLP in a while and now I can't bear the thought of listening to any of his recent stuff (with a couple of exceptions)

cathall

I like his newer stuff more than his older stuff as he raps about better more inspirational things I think he is a ledgend in rap do