Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Post Season thoughts

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    ibmax
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭ibmax


    I think the point of the thread has been lost somewhere between the first post and the top of page 3 - my post not included :)

    I think ETlovesLSD is merely observing the frustrations a lot of players seemed to encounter when trading.

    - "Elite" IS in the eye of the beholder but the word has been bandied around so much it has lost its meaning/value.
    - 2 for 1 deals are not a bad thing at all. Neither are 2 for 2 or 3 for 3 and so on. However, requiring 1 trade partner to ensure both parties are not left short at a trade position should not be as much of a deciding factor as it appears to be.
    - The trade blocks in general do seem to be pretty irrelevant. It'd be interesting to see if players on blocks were traded more or less than players not on blocks. I know from my own team; i traded 8 players who weren't on my trade block. I put 11 players on my trade block - 1 was traded :eek: .....Anyone want to volunteer their time and get the league wide numbers ;)

    Also, on the topic of "rookie/rookieish" coaches receiving ridiculous offers which both Dave and Berty have touched on (not like that ;) ) I have received offers from several teams telling me i am "weak" in a particular area and offering me a player in this "weak" position in exchange for a "backup" of mine. I would consider myself to have a decent knowledge of the NFL and the scheme fit of certain players so i can spot that these offers are not fair/balanced in any way. However, someone who maybe wouldn't have the same understanding but enjoys the game of Madden none-the-less could easily be caught out by one of these. After all, one man's OLB is another's DE and so on...

    There are a lot of calls for a trade commission and some rules bouncing about at the moment. I'm not sure how any trade commission would work going forward as trading by it's nature is opinionated, with each party having their own thoughts on where value lies. I do think some sort of protection is needed to ensure no-one is getting tricked into losing players that hold more value than they are unaware of.

    Perhaps instead of a trade commission there would be a player/few players who will let each new GM know; the value of their team, how best to line up, which positions needs upgrading, and which positions are strong. This means each GM is educated when they go to trade and it's down to their own negotiation skills and what they deem valuable when trying to get the best deal from a trade. I thinking combining this with Luke's suggested "trade guidelines" would remove the need for an actual commission and could encourage more trading which everyone obviously enjoys.

    You never know... we might even see a trade where an "elite player" is moved in a "2 for 1" deal with the 2 players going the other way both coming from a "trade block" and not being referred to as "backups" :cool:


  • Options
    #33
    etloveslsd
    Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭etloveslsd


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    I was looking at this post

    That was in reference to Mathew saying that if you are trading a high value player you should get a replacement.

    The point I was making was it annoyed me when players drop the trade because there wasn't a replacement on offer. If you want to upgrade a certain aspect of your team you have to be willing to pay for it.

    The trade between us you mentioned for Super Mario. If I remember correctly I gave you Jacob Bell, a left guard and someone else. As a result of the trade I was down a quality left guard. I didn't demand a replacement, cause I wanted Mario. I went out this season and traded Revis to Berty to get Mike Iupati.

    I'm sure someone will also point out that I got a corner as part of the Revis deal and I am contradicting myself. I would also point you to the post I made on Berty's trade block, saying there doesn't have to be a corner involved. To be honest, when I decided to trade Revis I wanted A lineman and a MLB. Berty's MLBs didn't really fit, so I accepted his corner.


  • Options
    #34
    BigBadRob83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭BigBadRob83


    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    Read is original post.

    Troy Polamalu is the best SS in the game there's a drop off in skill after him. He's truly elite.

    Vonta Leach is the best full back in the game. He's the only elite Full back in the game. Others can be considered excellent players but cannot be considered in the same league as him.

    The term elite was branded around a fair bit in the post season. don't think it got under my bonnet like etloveslsd. But a good tight end or a good linebacker can't be labelled elite when theres players significantly above them in skill level at the same position.

    How can they be considered elite ?

    Have read his post, thanks. I think you're missing my point Dave, Elite is a subjective word. Neither ET, you or any of us can draw a line and say "these players are elite, these are not".
    My main point is; I don't see how someone labelling someone elite or crap anything should affect anyone else. People are entitled to their opinions and how they value different players. If you don't agree with them, so what, get over it.
    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    On the Trade part. I can see why you want to keep it open BigBadRob, you benefited massively from this post season. I still maintain you took advantage of a new player ,they accepted the trade and decided to "live and learn " from it. Thats done we need to move on and learn from it.

    I think anyone who makes a trade thinks that they benefited from it, otherwise why would you do it. Again, it's another opinion.
    If you're going to bring up the Peppers trade again, a lot has gone on in PM's etc. that you haven't seen Dave, so I will just go through what happened:
    1. I PM'd NekoChan chatting about trades, advised to put a trade block and some players that others might be interested in. I also said I had some players available that might be fit the Seahawks needs (DT's, WR's, CB's), and that I would be interested in Peppers if they wanted to trade, I could offer Osi + other player(s). I did not make any trade offer.
    2. Got a reply, thanking me for the msg, and proposing the trade: Peppers -for- Osi + Sims
    3. I accepted the trade.
    4. You complained, said I took advantage of someone.
    5. I said I would undo the trade if NekoChan wanted to. Also PM'd this to NekoChan and send all the PM's to Raoul after your complaint.

    Ultimately, myself and NekoChan made a deal and NekoChan had the opportunity to undo it and chose not to.

    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    The off season trading needs to be addressed for madden 13

    Needs to be addressed? Or, you want it to be addressed.


  • Options
    #35
    The_Gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭The_Gatsby


    I was previously for a trade commission but having thought about it, I don't really see how it would be put into practice. It could get quite complicated when peoples opinions differ. For instance, in my trading Gates I feel like I got, what would normally be, a fairly bad offer from Rob. However I wanted Gates gone and was willing to drop my price so I had no problem with it. Some people may have PM'd me telling me this was a bad trade if it was done publicly and I would have felt as if people were judging me on what I wanted to do with my team.

    At the end of the day, I think most people would have the common sense to see if they are getting ripped off and if they weren't sure, it's easy enough to PM one of the more experienced members, like I did with Dave. It was helpful to hear his opinion but at the same time I think sometimes players just want to get on with it.

    I think when a new member joins they should be PM'd all the details about how the league works and in that PM maybe a point should be made about trades and if they feel they need advice then to PM one of the more experienced players. I don't see the need to overly democratize the league and make it too strict with various rules etc.


  • Options
    #36
    etloveslsd
    Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭etloveslsd


    matthew8 wrote: »
    If we are going to attach that to being a sim league then the trade commission thingy should go out the window, as well as rules for running up the score.

    The rule about running up the score is more about sportmanship. The whole point of this league is people were tired of lobby games and the antics that follow there. But if a player is being beaten by 40+ point a game they won't stick around too long.

    I seem to remember alot of people kicking up a fuss with the Boards overloards talking about how we want to grow this community.

    Running up scores will cause people to leave and goes against the effort that was put in to get this forum and grow the league


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Berty44
    Registered Users Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Berty44


    What I would like to see rather than a Trade Commission is 1 or 2 people nominated as Trade Advisors as such. These guys would be available for new members to the league to pm regarding any trades they are making to get advice. In fact anyone making a trade who was not sure could pm them to see what they think.


  • Options
    #38
    Danger_dave1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭Danger_dave1


    BigBadRob83 wrote: »


    Needs to be addressed? Or, you want it to be addressed.

    Need , want, addressed all the above. Your telling me we should just have left the trading and set up no help for new people ?

    I know trading needs to be addressed and I wanted to bring it to the league and start a dialogue on it.

    I've no problem with a coach going out and getting the value in trades but not to the detriment of the leagues members , new and old.

    I also have a big problem with "shark" traders trading crazily and re using people in new trades, its not good for the previous person who you traded for and as Berty said it can create animosity.


  • Options
    #39
    BigBadRob83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭BigBadRob83


    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    Your telling me we should just have left the trading and set up no help for new people ?
    If you read my posts elsewhere, you'd see that I'm in favour of the trade commission to help people who aren't sure of things. If people want advice, then they can ask for it. If people want to make a trade, then they should go for it. I'm mainly in favour of people doing what they want and not a fan of the nanny-state approach.
    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    I know trading needs to be addressed and I wanted to bring it to the league and start a dialogue on it.
    You think trading needs to be addressed. I've yet to see anyone who was actually involved in a trade complain. Just people outside of the trade who disagree. If they did, then maybe your point-of-view might have more weight.
    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    I've no problem with a coach going out and getting the value in trades but not to the detriment of the leagues members , new and old.

    Again, it's your opinion what is to someone's detriment. I think anyone (on both sides of a trade) who makes a trade does so trying to improve their roster.
    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    I also have a big problem with "shark" traders trading crazily
    Insult taken, received. If you think I'm a shark, then so be it.
    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    re using people in new trades, its not good for the previous person who you traded for and as Berty said it can create animosity.
    The only animosity I'm sensing is coming from you, which I wouldn't have thought about before and am not keen to continue. We (and others on either side I'm sure) obviously have different opinions on this, and as I said in a previous post (which I think would be a good point to leave this discussion at, for the league to decide):
    BigBadRob83 wrote: »
    Anyway, think with things like this and other issues could be a good idea to have a poll on any issues before Madden 13. That way the whole league can decide what we do and don't want


  • Options
    #40
    Danger_dave1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭Danger_dave1


    BigBadRob83 wrote: »

    Insult taken, received. If you think I'm a shark, then so be it.


    The only animosity I'm sensing is coming from you, which I wouldn't have thought about before and am not keen to continue. We (and others on either side I'm sure) obviously have different opinions on this, and as I said in a previous post (which I think would be a good point to leave this discussion at, for the league to decide):

    Rob I'm not trying to insult you, were are still part of the same community. I'm more concerned with the community as a whole. I haven't been affected by your trades. I've talked to people in pm which you havent seen and eye brows have been more than raised with the level of trading that has gone on league wide.

    Realistically I doubt for Madden 13 we'll see as much trading just for the fact most of us will be there to draft are teams for the start now. So it will only really effect new people coming into the league.

    Rob im not trying to insult. We AFCers should stick together


  • Options
    #41
    matthew8
    Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    Vonta Leach is the best full back in the game. He's the only elite Full back in the game. Others can be considered excellent players but cannot be considered in the same league as him.

    Elite, yet he can't power through the line for a yard. He sucks. Sammy Morris is better.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,658 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Rob I think you are taking this too personally.

    Trades will always be weighted to one side or another, I think dave felt that the trade was too in favour of you.
    Now in saying that.. 1 "elite :pac:" player for 2 good players is not always a bad deal if those 2 players are going to be upgrades on what the other coach already has.

    Also Rob you're not a shark.. you're a tiger :p

    I would also go on and say I love trading, at the end of the season I have a list of people I want to trade and then a couple of people I'd be willing to trade if a really good offer came in.



    Willis for example, I had an offer of 4 players for him from one coach.
    Willis rated at 98 was getting traded for a player rated 92, 90, 89 and 89.
    The coach was keen to get him and the coach was a little more experienced than Neko, but if i had accepted that trade I would say a lot of people wouldnt have been happy including Dave


  • Options
    #43
    BigBadRob83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭BigBadRob83


    Danger_dave1 wrote: »

    Rob I'm not trying to insult you, were are still part of the same community. I'm more concerned with the community as a whole. I haven't been affected by your trades. I've talked to people in pm which you havent seen and eye brows have been more than raised with the level of trading that has gone on league wide.

    Realistically I doubt for Madden 13 we'll see as much trading just for the fact most of us will be there to draft are teams for the start now. So it will only really effect new people coming into the league.

    Rob im not trying to insult. We AFCers should stick together

    Fair enough Dave. Think enough has been said on this for now. Would be interested to see what changes people would suggest for operation of the community for Madden 13.
    Take your point on the trades for M13. Missed the draft for this league and have been trying to adjust my team ever since as the balance of roster was nothing like what I wanted


  • Options
    #44
    SantryRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Rob I think you are taking this too personally.

    Trades will always be weighted to one side or another, I think dave felt that the trade was too in favour of you.
    Now in saying that.. 1 "elite :pac:" player for 2 good players is not always a bad deal if those 2 players are going to be upgrades on what the other coach already has.

    Also Rob you're not a shark.. you're a tiger :p

    I would also go on and say I love trading, at the end of the season I have a list of people I want to trade and then a couple of people I'd be willing to trade if a really good offer came in.



    Willis for example, I had an offer of 4 players for him from one coach.
    Willis rated at 98 was getting traded for a player rated 92, 90, 89 and 89.
    The coach was keen to get him and the coach was a little more experienced than Neko, but if i had accepted that trade I would say a lot of people wouldnt have been happy including Dave

    Why on earth didn't you accept that? Holy crap I'd have been all over it :pac:


  • Options
    #45
    ibmax
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭ibmax


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    Willis rated at 98 was getting traded for a player rated 92, 90, 89 and 89.
    SantryRed wrote: »
    Why on earth didn't you accept that? Holy crap I'd have been all over it :pac:

    The players were a kicker, punter, long snapper and a white corner back :D


  • Options
    #46
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,658 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    SantryRed wrote: »
    Why on earth didn't you accept that? Holy crap I'd have been all over it :pac:

    1) It wasnt a fair offer for the other coach but i wasnt prepared to let him go for anything less (catch 22!)
    2) I really like Willis :D


  • Options
    #47
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,658 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    @ibmax, yours was a good offer.. but not as good as the one i described :D


  • Options
    #48
    SantryRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    helimachoptor wrote: »
    1) It wasnt a fair offer for the other coach but i wasnt prepared to let him go for anything less (catch 22!)
    2) I really like Willis :D

    If someone is willing to give up that much for Willis, the trade commission would not get involved. I honestly think the commission shouldn't exist upon further thinking. And rather a couple of advisors who I would reference new players to.


  • Options
    #49
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,658 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Feel free to make me an offer ben :D


  • Options
    #50
    matthew8
    Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Did these players all have good key stats too?


  • Options
    #51
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,658 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    matthew8 wrote: »
    Did these players all have good key stats too?

    Yes.. I received some very good offers for Willis a couple from new-ish guys and a couple from other players all were very good offers.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Lochlan Jolly Witch
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Lochlan Jolly Witch


    etloveslsd wrote: »
    The point I was making is people calling off deals because a replacement wasn't part of it. It's not up to me to source your team for you.

    then call off the deal yourself if your not willing to pay what they want

    with regards the trade block i agree with this and i was guilty of it myself

    and the elite players thing was annoying but necessary because of people offering crazy trades for big time players


  • Options
    #53
    Lochlan Jolly Witch
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Lochlan Jolly Witch


    Danger_dave1 wrote: »
    I also have a big problem with "shark" traders trading crazily and re using people in new trades, its not good for the previous person who you traded for and as Berty said it can create animosity.

    this is necessary in some cases if i want a specific player but have what they want on my team i have to trade its like a 3 team trade effectively


Advertisement