Key fobs - HKC

KoolKid

Still need a relay then. Arm disarm out put into a relay to open a tech zone to trip a strobe output timed.
Would that be the way to go?

Stephen868

KoolKid wrote: »

Still need a relay then. Arm disarm out put into a relay to open a tech zone to trip a strobe output timed.
Would that be the way to go?

If you only want a strobe flash and not internal bell sounding.you could do it that way. Arm disarm output opening a tech zone that is mapped to a panel output that will trip for X seconds. No need for a relay just using a second trigger to the strobe on the bell.

KoolKid

As ye already have the output types would you consider an option to programme this directly. Its something I get asked for a fair bit.

C.TECH

Zone mapping of course, well done.

KoolKid

It could be simplier...
Like this:

Thunderbird2

I don't think mines squaks when I set it for night time .. Just when setting it for away as it scared the crap outta me when I set it with the fob going out the door .. It was the first time I set it with the fob and I'd usually only use the fob for night set A .. But I could be wrong ...

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't think mines squaks when I set it for night time .. Just when setting it for away as it scared the crap outta me when I set it with the fob going out the door .. It was the first time I set it with the fob and I'd usually only use the fob for night set A .. But I could be wrong ...

It is not meant to as part set is mainly used when there are people in the house, It will for a full set only.

Thunderbird2

altor wrote: »

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't think mines squaks when I set it for night time .. Just when setting it for away as it scared the crap outta me when I set it with the fob going out the door .. It was the first time I set it with the fob and I'd usually only use the fob for night set A .. But I could be wrong ...

It is not meant to as part set is mainly used when there are people in the house, It will for a full set only.

So wouldn't arm squawk work for OP since he was worried about it waking the kids at night?

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

So wouldn't arm squawk work for OP since he was worried about it waking the kids at night?

Yep

Jnealon

KoolKid wrote: »

It could be simplier...
Like this:

+1 much easier this way
or have a fob that tells you the system is arming, similar to enforcer or visonic

KoolKid

The options with Siemens are far wider as well. With Mapping gates you could have individual actions for any setting or any user...

minder2009

Internal siren at back of house is there a small wireless siren you could place at location near to front of house to hear squawk as well as see Saab flash? Thks

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Internal siren at back of house is there a small wireless siren you could place at location near to front of house to hear squawk as well as see Saab flash? Thks

Yes, there is a wire free option available. It is an RF Echo.

minder2009

Ok that's great , it could perhaps be fitted beside the Saab ? Externally , and programmed on rkp. What sort of price roughly are they? Thks
Minder

KoolKid

minder2009 wrote: »

Ok that's great , it could perhaps be fitted beside the Saab ? Externally

They wouldn't be IP rated for outdoor.

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Ok that's great , it could perhaps be fitted beside the Saab ? Externally , and programmed on rkp. What sort of price roughly are they? Thks
Minder

No, they are only an internal Bell. It could be installed inside the front door. They are loud so it will be heard from outside. They cost about €40-€45.

minder2009

Re Hkc
Hi all
I see on part set the countdown starts. You are inside most likely in my case heading to bed. I cannot see any advantage having this? Can anyone else? It can be taken off off in settings if I recall correctly. Secondly I just notice the alarm light flashes continually when it does set. In old panel that used to indicate event.. Is this correct? Lastly alarm about 2 weeks old one fob flashing red continually , woke up earlier heard beeps from rkp then fob wouldn't unset alarm!! I see aug 2011 printed on rear of this fob , presume these beeps mean new battery required!? Me beginning to think supporting local business might not be best option!!! Thks
Minder

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Re Hkc
Hi all
I see on part set the countdown starts. You are inside most likely in my case heading to bed. I cannot see any advantage having this? Can anyone else? It can be taken off off in settings if I recall correctly. Secondly I just notice the alarm light flashes continually when it does set. In old panel that used to indicate event.. Is this correct? Lastly alarm about 2 weeks old one fob flashing red continually , woke up earlier heard beeps from rkp then fob wouldn't unset alarm!! I see aug 2011 printed on rear of this fob , presume these beeps mean new battery required!? Me beginning to think supporting local business might not be best option!!! Thks
Minder

That is when the entry/exit is set up for part set. The advantage of this is if you want to leave the house but still part set the alarm if say some one is in bed. It can be changed in the part guard option menu. There was a change in the standard to allow an indication on the keypad of the alarm being set. This again can be changed in the part guard menu. The red light when you press the fob means it has not communicated properly with the control panel. If it was green then it has communicated correctly. Orange indicates you are out of range of the panel.

dahamsta

I was offered these when my alarm was set up but it struck me that from a security point of view they might defeat the purpose, that if you lost your keys you'd lose your 2nd factor. The HKC website mentions a "multi-button" approach, is this a (weak) equivalent of a PIN?

KoolKid

Key fobs are a risk if lost but the fobs can be easily deleted . Your bigger problem there will be replacing your locks & your keys. Regardless of code entry on the fob your still going to delete it anyway.

altor

dahamsta wrote: »

I was offered these when my alarm was set up but it struck me that from a security point of view they might defeat the purpose, that if you lost your keys you'd lose your 2nd factor. The HKC website mentions a "multi-button" approach, is this a (weak) equivalent of a PIN?

If someone was to use the fob they would need to know your code to disarm the alarm. A fob set up with no code is not as secure as with the press of a button your alarm system is off.

minder2009

altor wrote: »

dahamsta wrote: »

I was offered these when my alarm was set up but it struck me that from a security point of view they might defeat the purpose, that if you lost your keys you'd lose your 2nd factor. The HKC website mentions a "multi-button" approach, is this a (weak) equivalent of a PIN?

If someone was to use the fob they would need to know your code to disarm the alarm. A fob set up with no code is not as secure as with the press of a button your alarm system is off.

.........................................................
Re above , in my case you don't need to know the code to unset alarm. When you unset with gob that's it .... Off
If you lose fob it can be programmed out of system and a new one programmed in again as far as I know !

KoolKid

minder2009 wrote: »

If you lose fob it can be programmed out of system and a new one programmed in again as far as I know !

That's it, To date I think I have had only one person ever ask for this to be done. Fobs are not a risk.
You would have to lose your keys, someone would have to find your keys & know your address. The person that finds you keys would have be the type of character that breaks into houses. They would then have to get to your house & use your fob before you even noticed it gone & deactivated it.
Anyone care to work out the odds? I have never heard of any incident like this happening.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Key fobs are a risk if lost

KoolKid wrote: »

Fobs are not a risk.

Which is it :P

KoolKid

Waiting on someone to work out the odds. Its all relative
There's a risk we may be invaded by aliens tomorrow. Have you your bunker & laser guns ready?
There is a risk of anything, but I think I've explained what the risk is already.

altor

It is relative to your two contradictory replies? Strange logic..

KoolKid

What's strange is for someone in this business as long as you are not to be able to understand the levels of risk & what's relevant & what should be discarded. Do you think up every possible risk like below when doing your site surveys??

There is a risk with everything as I just described.
There's a risk we could be hit by an asteroid.
There's a risk we could be invaded by aliens.
There's a risk the universe may just decide to stop.
Now on a day to day basis do we live our lives worrying about things like that ? No!
Now with all that in mind , if you were asked in the morning is there any risk of this happening would you be worried or would you say no & get on with your life?

Now back to your alarm... The best systems in the world have some level of risk attached to them. Nothing is 100% .
Now if someone askes me of the risks re fobs I explain to them like I've explained to you above. Most customers get it & say they seem safe enough, no risk there. Thank god not everyone likes to split hairs like you do or no one would buy alarms because of the risk of them failing.

Fob or no fob there is a risk of any system being defeated.
There is even a risk someone could guess your code.
Hopefully that clarifies it a bit and we don't have to get petty about defining every little word. The average customer understands this so I'm sure it should make sense to someone with your experience.

altor

Nothing petty about it, just looking for a straight answer without any talk of world disasters or being attacked by aliens.

If a customer asked me what is more secure:

(A) keyfob with a code.
or
(B) keyfob with no code.

(A) would be my answer. What would be your answer (A or ?

You just seem confused as your response in one post says:

KoolKid wrote: »

Key fobs are a risk if lost

Then in your next post:

KoolKid wrote: »

Fobs are not a risk.

That is where the confusion came from.

I agree that nothing is 100% secure. As we work in the industry, security would be our main concern. If there is a risk and a way of preventing it then it should be considered and put in place. That is what a risk assessment is all about. That said if a customer does want to leave a keyfob as a press off that is up to them once any risks have being explained.

minder2009

So how can you set the code with the fob?use a code with a fob? Mine (Hkc)only has on off part sets panic! Pity to see sillly posts on here..... Altor and koolkid are very helpful to people with genuine enquiries.

KoolKid

Maybe if you quoted people properly ,instead of a few lines cut out of a sentence , it would be less confusing for you.

KoolKid wrote: »

Key fobs are a risk if lost but the fobs can be easily deleted . Your bigger problem there will be replacing your locks & your keys. Regardless of code entry on the fob your still going to delete it anyway.

I have explained and qualified my responses. This is a public forum not a piece of legislation.Every word does not need to be dissected looking for a loophole.
Now I think most rational people can distinguish what's a real risk and what's low enough a risk to say no risk.
Let's not have another thread dragged off topic with pointless arguments.
If you wish to post information of the pro/cons of using fobs that's fine but let's leave it at that .If you do feel this needs further discussion feel free to PM me.