Allergy Test Results - Dog Food Help

toadfly

Hi guys,

ok some of you already know we have been having problems with Lexi loosing weight the last 5 months or so. Tried her on different foods but the only one that worked was a hydrolysed one from Royal Canin and at €90 for 14kg we couldn't keep that up.

So heres the list;

Very Bad: Corn & Beef

Bad: Pork, Lamb, Chicken, Soya, Rice, Milk, Eggs

Ok to eat: Duck, Turkey, Fish, Wheat, Barley, Potato, Oats.

Anyone have any idea on what food I could try? She is on Burns Duck & Rice at the minute so it needs to one I can source locally as she has lost 1.3kg in 10 days and is nearly back at her lowest weight again.

Thank you.

tk123

Is Petmania near you at all -they're stocking Wafcol potato and salmon? I was planning on getting a bag when our JWB Turkey and Veg runs out for a change - we're only using the dry now for treats so it lasts ages.
http://www.wafcol.co.uk/wafcol-adult-dog-food-range.php#1

Pet World stock Barking Heads - they do a fish and potato one too -http://www.barkingheads.co.uk/for-dogs/salmon-potato-dog-food-fp.html

nala2012

Have you tried raw? Natures menu frozen nuggets are easy to use

Inexile

What about Green dog food. they have two varieties lamb and turkey. The turkey has the following ingredients:
Macro nutrients
Turkey (25.5% dry » 58.21% fresh*), whole white rice, vegetables and herbs (15%), whole brown rice (14%), whole oats, whole barley, fat.
* see 'meat content analysis' on left hand panel
Micro nutrients
Vitamins: A, Beta Carotene, C, D, E, K, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Niacin, B complex. Choline, Folic Acid, Calcium, Chromium, Iron, Magnesium, Phos, Selenium, Zinc. Plus all other essential elements. All from natural sources.


You can get it from certain suppliers, check their site for details, but dogfood direct also stock it. Its €50 for a 12kg bag not cheap but a lot less than what you are paying for RC.

One of my lot has a dust mite allergy and was scrating like a loon. Even though it was a food allergy I thought it would be an idea to switch and it it seems to be making a difference.

toadfly

Thanks everyone. Yes have Petmania few minute walk from work. Wafcol & Barking Heads both look good, any idea which one would be better?

Have thought about raw but with just a small ingrediant list, would it be easy enough to do?

Greens is no good as it has rice but thanks anyway.

bluecherry74

I'm currently using Barking Heads salmon and potato for my two sensitive dogs and as far as dry dog foods go it's one of the best. If you can order online, Amazon have a "subscribe and save" option where it works out at roughly €45 for a 12kg bag (although they seem to be out of stock at the mo...)

I also feed them raw for approx. 70% of their diet and while I think that's the best way of feeding, you might find it too expensive since chicken and beef are generally the cheapest meats out there. You'd probably have a hard time finding duck and turkey at an affordable price I'm relative new to raw feeding though so others on here will probably have better advice.

Just curious, where did you get the allergy testing done? It took me months to get my two on a diet that suited them and I'm still not 100% sure what it is that they're sensitive to.

toadfly

Cool thanks for that might try Barking Heads so. Petworld isnt as convenient for me but will manage it. Thats what I thought with raw, I had pretty much decided to go raw but was waiting on these results. Will get a small bag of it tomorrow.

Vet done the test, just took some blood. Cost about €200 but we have spent about €1500 on this condition with Lex so the insurance covered it.

suziwalsh

I also second natures menu raw food....very easy and dogs love it

mistress_gi

Why don't you try taste of the wild? zooplus.ie sells it, it is not too expensive and they do a salmon variety. I have my dog on this and he loves it and it makes his coat all shiny!
links:
http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/taste_of_the_wild/231924

byte

This is the Salmon and Potato we have for our Bichon atm (fussy eater moreso than allergic to stuff). This stuff was mentioned before by a regular here, so I gave it a shot, and Max thrives on the stuff! Good value too.

http://www.petconnection.ie/acatalog/Pet_Connection_Salmon___Potato_Dog_Food_15kg.html

DogsFirst

TillyGirl wrote: »

Hi guys,

ok some of you already know we have been having problems with Lexi loosing weight the last 5 months or so. Tried her on different foods but the only one that worked was a hydrolysed one from Royal Canin and at €90 for 14kg we couldn't keep that up.

So heres the list;

Very Bad: Corn & Beef

Bad: Pork, Lamb, Chicken, Soya, Rice, Milk, Eggs

Ok to eat: Duck, Turkey, Fish, Wheat, Barley, Potato, Oats.

Anyone have any idea on what food I could try? She is on Burns Duck & Rice at the minute so it needs to one I can source locally as she has lost 1.3kg in 10 days and is nearly back at her lowest weight again.

Thank you.

I am after writing a much longer response which I lost due to being timed out by boards. Very very mad. Here it is in short (though still looks long!!!!)

There is no need for an expensive hydrolyzed diet or over the counter raw food products (@€;3.50 per kg!) . You know what will work from above tests. You need to move her to a fresh, home prepared diet, today! You find a healthy constant there that you will not, cannot find in dry food, which has caused this problem in the first place.

First starve the dog for a day to purge. Put a sprinkle of sugar and salt in her water for electrolytes. The diet initially should be 50% boiled spud and 50% turkey mince, small meals initially, twice a day. After two weeks of happiness I would start thinking about 60% whole turkey pieces, 20% boiled veg (peas and green beans) and 20% cooked spud.

Whatever synthetic immuno-suppressant drugs (cortisone?) she has been put on undoubtedly by your vet, she needs to come off. This might seem a bit drastic. If she is on high dose every day this cannot be done immediately, over time. But work away from them. If they are fed now and again, cut them out. They are increasing the problem by blocking the normal action on the immune system, which at this stage, is completely knackered. It needs help to function correctly, not to be blocked.

While you remove the antigens harrassing the system with the above diet you set about feeding the immune system from the off set. Focus on vitamins A, C, E (for a 15kg dog use 5000IU of vit A, 500-1000 of vit C in two doses, 200IU of vit E) and B vitamins (quarter of human dose fine). These bolster immunty, increase function and are normally woefully absent in dry food. Also find some echinacea and use liberally (great for immune system).

You can add low fat probiotic yoghurt to her food to help with digestion. Also a few drops of apple cider vinegar (great stuff)

Chamomile now and again to help with stress and to calm gut also. Feel free to use Bach rescue remedy about the place to settle her "emotionally" during all this stress. It's incredible what this does for worried horses, dogs in kennels.

If diarrhoea persists human Imodium is OK in smaller doses though only for a short time, they mask a deeper issue.

Importantly the liver will need help. Closely related to gut issues, the liver will have been working furiously the last few months to purge food antigens, toxins and all the antibodies roused by your dogs hyperactive immune reaction. It needs milk thistle, lots of it.

I would go as far as to give her boiled (and cooled!) water. A diet void of antigens for a period so the immune system can calm, take a breath and get back to normal.

And get her off the chemical sludge (dry food and drugs), remember it hasn't worked up to this point. Get all the above in your local health store and go at it for three weeks. If she doesn't stabilise and thrive I'll eat dry food for a week.

Feel free to contact me at my site or ring the mobile.

Best of luck, keep us all posted.

tk123

I was just thinking of you there Tilly giving Bailey a special treat dinner of sardines and mashed spuds (put some by for him from dinner the other day lol). How is she getting on?

toadfly

Thanks for that DF, where do you get your meat? Went to three different places today and cheapest turkey mince I could find was €9/kg. Cheapest fish was €9/kg for whiting.

Have taken her off the steroids myself. Think the vet thinks I am being awkward at this stage but I cant afford to keep her on RC @ €90 a go so want to find an alternative.

Thanks tk, shes not great at the minute. Driving me cracked at this stage.

Aru

TillyGirl wrote: »

Have taken her off the steroids myself. Think the vet thinks I am being awkward at this stage but I cant afford to keep her on RC @ €90 a go so want to find an alternative.

Be very careful with just taking dogs off steroids. They really need to have a dose tapered down not just a cut off cold turkey....Especially if the dog has been on them for a while. Tapering ie cutting down the amount over time is to allow the body to readjust to life without the artificial steroids and begin to produce its own hormones again as these can be suppressed while on the drugs. Just suddenly removing steroids can result in your dog not having any steroid response within its body ie the body cannot mount a stress response.. that can be fatal in some cases. It not a common problem but its one to be aware of and treat with caution when coming off the drugs.

Good luck with your dog I hope you find a diet that suits her.

toadfly

She was on the lowest dose she could be on and only for two weeks. I did clear it with the vet first.

DBB

Tilly, what neck of the woods do you live in? From the point of view of pointing you towards sources of cheaper raw meat, I mean!

I feel compelled to reiterate what Dogs First said. I deal with some very allergic dogs and we've had great success getting them off commercial dry food and onto a home-made diet. Not only are there nutritional deficits in dry food by it's very nature, there are also lil microscopic bugs ("storage mites") in dry food (no matter how high quality, or how "hypoallergenic", or whether it's an expensive prescription food) that cause and maintain an excessive allergic response in some dogs.
The home-prepped diet not only cuts out a huge source of these bugs, it also balances an already-struggling immune system. I'm not joking, i've had owners of dogs ring me in tears with no options left for their bald, itchy dogs having tried all the traditional medical routes. In all cases, there was an almost miraculous recovery in the dogs who changed to meat/veg/spuds.
Good luck with this.. it's a bit of a leap of faith, but well worth a go!

toadfly

I live in East Co Galway, work in the city but boyfriend works all over Connaught so most places in Connaught we can get to.

If anyone can recommend where I can buy cheaply I would really appreciate it as I really want to try raw.

Thanks everyone.

tk123

Would you try her on say potato and some tinned fish as stop gap - sardines are cheap? Tesco used to do turkey mince 3 for €9 but upped the price last year! :mad: OT but my friends dog farts so loud her husband who's deaf in one ear can hear(:pac:), poos loads, has bald patches and constant ear infections - and won't entertain the idea that he's possibly is alergic to the food the feed!!:rolleyes:

DogsFirst

TillyGirl wrote: »

Thanks for that DF, where do you get your meat? Went to three different places today and cheapest turkey mince I could find was €9/kg. Cheapest fish was €9/kg for whiting.

Have taken her off the steroids myself. Think the vet thinks I am being awkward at this stage but I cant afford to keep her on RC @ €90 a go so want to find an alternative.

Thanks tk, shes not great at the minute. Driving me cracked at this stage.

That's a spicy meatball!! 9 bucks! Rip off. Lidl free range chicken is 3.50/kg, their turkey a lot lot less (not sure where their turkey comes from, if Ire/UK at least you know it was free run. Buy turkey thighs, they're huge, take meat and cartlidge off bone for first week (hassle!) then whole turkey chunks and bone once settled.

Re fish you need to ask for carcasses from the fish fellas! Best bits and free (once your over the grossness). Go to a port and buy on bulk, Google "fish factory" and find near.

Find factory meat outlets, popping up all over, find the day they debone their meat. Talk to the butcher, buy your meat off him, he'll keep you the gone off stuff etc. Supermarkets on Saturday or Sunday for cheap meat.

I know a fella in Killybegs, I buy ground up oily fish off him, most of it is trim and heads, perfect. Greyhound fella put me on to him. Around 1.50/kilo I reckon. I buy in bulk, cut it up with a saw then hand out blocks of it to few friends. They do an odd trip. Absolute rocket fuel for skin, coat, vitality, everything but best fed out back (and no it doesn't make their breath smell!). If in Wicklow area give me a shout.

DBB

TillyGirl wrote: »

I live in East Co Galway, work in the city but boyfriend works all over Connaught so most places in Connaught we can get to.

If anyone can recommend where I can buy cheaply I would really appreciate it as I really want to try raw.

Thanks everyone.

Hi Tilly,
You should be able to get commercial raw meat for your dog in Galway. Here's a list of stockists which supply Nature's Menu products.. not that it's Nature's Menu you're necessarily looking for (they do a prepared meal of frozen meat with various veg, but the ratio of one to the other isn't what I'd be loooking for... not enough meat!) but Nature's Menu stockists often also stock Prize Choice frozen meat because, as far as I understand it, they're sister companies or somesuch?
Anyway, Prize Choice comes in lots of different meats (minced or in chunks, nothing else added), you can get it in 2kg bags, or in 400g blocks (these are often more "exotic" meats like rabbit, turkey etc, and really handy for storage in limited freezer space!), and you're talking around about €3 per kg of meat. I can't find the Prize Choice on the website, but as I say, stockists of Nature's Menu tend to be stockists of Prize Choice too:
http://www.foodforpets.ie/naturesmenu/stockists/

Obviously, the ideal is to source meat from the butchers, and if you talk nicely to many butchers they will do a deal with you for some meats (my butcher will sell me rump beef for €3/kg), and some also supply things like chicken's necks (nyom, nyom, say my dogs!), tripe, heart, offal etc. Some will even keep whatever bits and pieces they gather through the week and put it in a "Tillygirl" bag in the freezer. My local fishmongers regularly give me free herring which look a bit too battered to sell, and my local veg shop give me free misshapen carrots, parnsips and cabbage that nobody will buy due to their imperfect shape :rolleyes:
Oh! I also buy tins of pilchards.. probably the cheapest of the oily tinned fish.
So, with a bit of ingenuity and striking deals with various local shops, it's very do-able.. there's something very satisfying too about feeding your dog such lovely, pure food

DogsFirst

Hey Tilly, for what it's worth, in short.....

The theory on the massive increase in IBS in the 40 years is divided down two paths, does either apply to you?

i) Your dog has been sensitised to various proteins by being fed the same processed versions for 12mths or more? This line of thought is based around your dogs immune system receiving a heavy and sustained number of stressors for a period which induces a hyper aggressive reaction to one or more of the antigens (the body simply freaking out) or a hypo reaction (where the body is unable to fight any more, leading to another disease getting in). In this case the IBS rids the body of an every increasing list of dodgy proteins, quicker and quicker.

ii) Vaccines. More specifically the meat extracts that the vaccines are formulated in. Dogs will sensitise to the vaccines (as is the idea) and possibly the meat proteins there in, labelling the compound as a threat. If they meet similar meet proteins down the road the body can tag and attack. When this becomes chronic you get IBS. The question in this regard would be has your dog been boosted in the last 5 months?

Vaccinations, or more appropriately boosters, are an absolute scourge. Best practice of the highest vet authorities say vaccines (like in us) will last many years, 3 definitely, 5 likely, lifetime possibly yet still "annual boosting" goes on (a titre test would be preferable every 3 years to check if the vaccine is ticking over). This isn't the thread for it but for any sudden popping up of big inflammatory issues, the hefty majority occur 1-4 months following a booster. They are immunlogically ruinacious, particularly in immune battered dogs fed toxic sludge and powerful immuno suppressing drugs.

toadfly

Hi DF, no neither of those apply. We only have her one year tomorrow (:D) and this kicked off last November. She had her vaccines last May, is due her booster next week but was wary of getting it as I know you cant give it to dogs in poor health so thinking I should wait until I get more weight on her and she isnt going into kennels anytime soon. Good idea?

Thanks DBB I will check that out. There is a meat factory in Connemara but that is a good 1.5 hour drive from home so anywhere else in Connaught would be easier. Have to do some research on it just dont have much time at the minute. Hopefully tonight I will have time.

Ya TK I am feeding her the Barking Heads mixed with cod & souds, when that runs out I will use sardines or frozen haddock. Heading up north at the weekend so will stock up on tins of fish!

Zapperzy

If your going up to enniskillen from what I remember jolleyes used to stock natures menu and prize choice in a freezer. Always wondered what it was at the time, haven't been up in a while unfortunately.

DogsFirst

Hmmmm...interesting though I look less smart. When did you first notice any digestive disorder?

Would stick with the whole remove the antigen approach, either way it really is the only avenue!

You're dead right re vaccinating a sick patient.

Of the lot distemper and parvo are important at the start, and can be given separately contrary to popular practice, might be easier on a puppies system. There is something to said for the one year booster, it is up to your vet but there's a massive question mark thereafter.

As your dog is sick it's a perfect time to go the safer more holisitc route. Ask your vet what he/she wants to boost for. They will say one (or two?) of the above. You will then ask for a titre test instead of the jab. Cheap enough, your vet will take blood, send it off and find out is your girl is still producing the anitibodies from her first jab. When you find out that she is you stick your tongue out at the vet and ask him/her what the effects of a needless jab is? They'll say nothing, you'll never return........something like that anyway

toadfly

Zapperzy wrote: »

If your going up to enniskillen from what I remember jolleyes used to stock natures menu and prize choice in a freezer. Always wondered what it was at the time, haven't been up in a while unfortunately.

Yip its Enniskillen I am going to but its a two hour drive back to my mams in Mayo, staying there Sat night and then two hours to our house so dont think we will be able to get any frozen stuff. Will have a look though when I am up there.

toadfly

For anyone thats interested! We started mixing cooked white fish & potato through Lexi's food, about 70/30 dry/cooked and it has made a massive difference even in 10 days. Not decided on a long term plan, am hoping to go raw and think there is a place in Killala, Mayo that I can source it.

Thanks for all the advice.

DogsFirst

TillyGirl wrote: »

For anyone thats interested! We started mixing cooked white fish & potato through Lexi's food, about 70/30 dry/cooked and it has made a massive difference even in 10 days. Not decided on a long term plan, am hoping to go raw and think there is a place in Killala, Mayo that I can source it.

Thanks for all the advice.

Great news!! The raw fish will be even better, not sure if you've tried this. Cooking denatures the hell out of good fatty acids, actually turns them into their bad versions, like gremlins! Food allergy was discovered in the 20's by a guy who found he was allergic to cooked fish and not raw. But its true some immunoligically ruined dogs do better on the cooked versions! Nobody can explain that one.

Also whitfish, like cod, are excellent protein, top drawer, but if its the fish oil you're after for immune soothing and boosting effects, best aim for a pelagic or "oily fish" like mackerel (in smaller doses), herring, sardine.

Don't worry about fresh bones, maybe cooked fish bones are more brittle than cooked mammal bones too, not sure if same applies due to lack of calcium......hmmmmm interesting


Great to see an improvement