No Bull....

Belongamick

Got a bit of a shock last sunday evening.
Recently moved stock into new pasture and went to take a look at them last sunday evening carrying 18 month old daughter in arms. I knew neighbour had cattle next door mostly cows and calves. Our stock were close to fence to wandered over to them and noticed neighbours cattle getting curious. One black limo in particular seemed to be very eagar to meet and greet - only problem was this was a young bull!! Needless to say I was anxious to get out of there with daughter. It could have turned nasty if this bull decided I was the opposition.
I was annoyed that this bull had no ring, no chain and there were no signs on the neighbours gate. I called in to the owner but he was not there.
What is the legal position in relation to owning a bull - is a ring required or signage or what? Really annoyed over this.

bob charles

Belongamick wrote: »

What is the legal position in relation to owning a bull - is a ring required or signage or what? Really annoyed over this.

Dont know of any legal requirement, We never put a ring on a bulls nose either when used for breeding or fattening, I find that a bull is usually more adgitated with a chain, we used to have signs requesting no entry but no heed is taken of these. The bull was just protecting his patch much the same as a dog will do.

49801

No obligation as far as I know for ring or chain.
We have a pack of 14 15mth bulls at grass at the moment and i dont feel one bit obliged to tell the neighbours or put up signs or put a ring and chain on every1 of them.

the neighbours bull is staying on the neighbours side of the fence is he not?

That said you did feel threatened by the young lad... so no harm mentioning to your neighbour in a neighbourly way.

brian_t

Safety measures when handling bulls:

• all bulls should be ringed when 10 months old
• any field in which a bull is kept should be securely fenced and gates should be safely secured
• a bull at pasture should have a chain attached to the ring
• a sign warning of a bulls presence should be displayed at access points to the field
• consider slaughtering an aggressive bull
• use a vehicle when herding or moving the herd
• a properly designed bull pen will allow feeding and bedding to take place without having to enter the pen

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/customerservice/farmsafety/livestock/

whelan1

we ring all bulls as sold, no bull leaves here with out a ring, put rings in 4 bulls yesterday

Farmer Pudsey

I finish bulls, it is not possible to ring a herd of15-29 bulls, I have them in bunches of 15-20 animals.
I believe that any one entering or crossing a fiels where thereare cattle should presume there is a bull in the herd and take precausions such as keeping to the edge of the field and watching cattle as they come close to you

yellow50HX

sometimes i wonder about that thing about having a vechile to herd cattle, not always practical (rutting and tearing up fields) also if you need a jeep or tractor to bring in your bull then you might need to think of changing him. we have a ring on the bull, havent put a chain on them but it could always be an option if he started to get aggressive. any bulls we have got over the last while we have always tried to get a quite one. remeber a cow with acalf can be far more aggressive and dangerous then a bull. have had signs on the road gates since we started having a stock bull and always warn anyone coming to the farm. we have been lucky in that the ones we have had have been quite but will always look to see where he is and how he is acting before i go in to check them and will always keep him in my line of sight.

as for the neighbours fella the bull is bred to pick up the sent of a buuling cow thats his job and even if that cow is in an ajioing field. make sure your fence and the neighbours fence is well mainatained.

one last thing bulls are pretty much giant walking hormones and need a stable enviorment the most dangerous bull is one on his own as they can get very odd very quickly when they have been taken from the main herd or are away from the main activaty on the farm (just notice how agitated oen can get when you have to bring him in on his own. so be very wary of one in a feild with nothing else. if you need to move the bull only brign a few of the cows in with him. have heard of a few guys who outwinter the bulls with donkeys or goats if there are no other cattle just to make sure he is not on his own.

bogman_bass

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I finish bulls, it is not possible to ring a herd of15-29 bulls, I have them in bunches of 15-20 animals.
I believe that any one entering or crossing a fiels where thereare cattle should presume there is a bull in the herd and take precausions such as keeping to the edge of the field and watching cattle as they come close to you

You are presuming everybody is a farmer or knows about cattle and thats a dangerous presumption to make

reilig

Belongamick wrote: »

Got a bit of a shock last sunday evening.
Recently moved stock into new pasture and went to take a look at them last sunday evening carrying 18 month old daughter in arms. I knew neighbour had cattle next door mostly cows and calves. Our stock were close to fence to wandered over to them and noticed neighbours cattle getting curious. One black limo in particular seemed to be very eagar to meet and greet - only problem was this was a young bull!! Needless to say I was anxious to get out of there with daughter. It could have turned nasty if this bull decided I was the opposition.
I was annoyed that this bull had no ring, no chain and there were no signs on the neighbours gate. I called in to the owner but he was not there.
What is the legal position in relation to owning a bull - is a ring required or signage or what? Really annoyed over this.

I seriously doubt that anyone would have a Black Limousin Bull running with their herd???? They're quite rare in this country.

Are you sure that he wasn't just a frisky black limousin weinling -probably still sucking one of teh cows?

There would be no requirement for a weinling bull to have a ring. Once the farmer had his cattle adequately fenced, he's covered!!

Tipp Man

I have no idea what the original poster is annoyed about

From reading it his neighbour has a young bull in a field next to his and is doing no harm to anybody - he doesn't seem to have broken out or done anything wrong

What exactly are you annoyed about??

Farmer Pudsey

bogman_bass wrote: »

You are presuming everybody is a farmer or knows about cattle and thats a dangerous presumption to make

I do not have bulls out of choice it is a matter that they leave me a better margin than bullocks. Very few farmers would finsih bulls out of choice. The reality of cheap food policy most farmers even with present prices have not got a margin on cattle if kept from birth-slaughter. Read yesterday journal about finishing bulls on an intensive regime.
This is the second year that I will be without reps after cost's I am down about 3500-4000 euro. Now I did bulls before but now with the high price of stores find mtself drawn more towards them.
The reality is that a farm is now a workplace would you take a child onto a busy building site or an engineering workshop.As farmers we cannot secure our worksite and have sign's everyehere people have to be aware of the risks and I believe because of the change of direction in agriculture that the Dept should do a TV add blitz.

tanko

So you were walking through your cattle with your eighteen month old daughter in your arms. What would you have done if one of your own cattle had attacked you?

yellow50HX

tanko wrote: »

So you were walking through your cattle with your eighteen month old daughter in your arms. What would you have done if one of your own cattle had attacked you?

a bit harsh... i fairly sure no one would purposly put their child in danger if they tought there was a chance they would be attacked. what age were you when you brought to see cows???

i know i cant remember back to when i was a toddler but i know that my parents and family would have brought us up to see the cows as kids but we would have warned not to go up on our own. the kids around here are told all abut the "CROSS BULL" and will not go near the animals or into the shed and yard unless an adult is with them and holding thier hand.

we all think our animals are fine but a wary of the ones next door as they wont be used to us. it was a fairly natural reaction to be worried if a bull breaks in. and yes there are plenty of black limo bulls used this is espically the case for heifers were a AA or LIM crossed yearling runs with the heifers for the summer, espically if there is only a small number, cheaper option then spending another 2-3k on a bull just for heifers espically if its for less then 10.

reilig

yellow50HX wrote: »

and yes there are plenty of black limo bulls used this is espically the case for heifers were a AA or LIM crossed yearling runs with the heifers for the summer, espically if there is only a small number, cheaper option then spending another 2-3k on a bull just for heifers espically if its for less then 10.

Around here something like that would be described as a "scrub bull".
Its rare that anyone will keep a black cross bred limousin as a bull - red crosses would be just as popular and would have a better chance of bringing red calves which are inevitably more valuable.

Muckit

I don't know if any of ye ever seen the film Gone in 60 seconds? Well there's a very funny scene in it where this guy (below) is trying to teach a rather incompetent girl how to drive.......




"Heck I can't swim, I know I can't. So you know what I do? I stay my black ass out the pool!"


You're clearly out of your depths OP. Time to get out of the pool!

yellow50HX

reilig wrote: »

Around here something like that would be described as a "scrub bull".
Its rare that anyone will keep a black cross bred limousin as a bull - red crosses would be just as popular and would have a better chance of bringing red calves which are inevitably more valuable.

thats a fair point but its also case a looking at a proper cost benefit when its small scale. the black bull is usually cheaper but if he is out of a red bull then the chances of a red calf are pretty much the same.

I know a few others around here who use a scrub bull (more likely to be an AA then Limo but still a few of them) only use it on a handful of heifers. They will buy him as a yearling and look to finishing him off grass hence letting him run with the heifers for the summer and you get the extra benefit of him bulling them as well as putting on condition, and you don't need to watch the heifers for bulling and then try bringing them in for AI.

we used a black scrub limo bull a few years ago on 4 heifers and got 3 red calves and 1 black. the heifers were 3 limo's 2 black and 1 red and an AA. the black calf came from one of the black limo's. your still not guaranteed a red calf from a red bull you also have to take into account the heifer. the main reason we used a different bull was that the stock bull was too big for heifers. sometimes the simplest and cheapest option can be the best option. the heifers calves made near enough the same money as similar sized calves from the stock bull. wouldn't have been worth my while scouring the marts for a red bull and paying the bit extra for him especially ashe was going to the factory when i was finished with him.