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Puppy - Heart Problem (Help)

  • 11-05-2012 6:13pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 31


    Hello,

    We bought and fell in love with a maltese female puppy around one month ago when she was 12 weeks old. The breeder gave us the form where it shows when she was given given her first shot however was not signed by vet. She is quiet small in size and small for her age and seems slightly timid but still a great dog.

    We took her to the vet today for her second dose of shots and checkup, the vet told us she has two fairly large heart murmurs and will probably live until she is one year or so..... if lucky maybe surprise us with a few years more.

    Obviously we were devastated to hear the news.. I had a couple of questions I am hoping somebody can help with.

    1. Is this fixable longterm, surgery etc. We have no insurance?
    2. Should the breeders vet noticed this at her first visit?

    I am going to ring the breeder and look for compensation but dont know if I have a let to stand on.

    Any ideas?


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    This is going to sound harsh, but bring the pup back to the breeder and demand a full refund.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,045 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    Did the breeder show you health certs for the parents?! Are they registered?

    I think I'd be inclined to ask for refund tbh especially since you have no insurance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    This is going to sound harsh, but bring the pup back to the breeder and demand a full refund.

    Totally agree 100%. I have a dog with heart condition and it is pricey. Pup needs an ultrasound for a more accurate prognosis. There is no surgery option for my dogs heart just medication. In fact it is very risky for her to go under general anaestetic (which may be the case for your pup when they get neutered) as it slows down heart beat. Obviously I love my dog and wouldn't be without her but it's not something I would want any of
    My future dogs to have if it could be avoided. My dog also has lung problems as heart and lungs are connected. If you do keep the pup get insurance as it will cover any unrelated illnesses which may arise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Aru


    Did the vet say what heart condition they suspected?
    THere are a few different congenital heart conditions.To find out which your pup has she may need a heart scan....that is what will really let you know her real prognosis. :(

    Contact the breeder.See what they say.Is she registered?
    Chances are they gave the first vaccine themselves which is why they did not know about the murmur.

    Heart problems are not uncommon in the maltese breed the breeder should also be made aware that her line is carrying the issue and should not breed that pair again.

    You would be better off not keeping this puppy.Harsh but true.
    Heart failure is very expensive to treat and if she has a serious murmur at this age...
    To find out exactly what her hope and quality of life is will depend on the condition and to find out means a heart scan.These are done in specialist vets like UCD vet hospital..they are not cheap but finding out exactly the issue will give you a better idea of what you are facing.
    You could spend hundreds trying to treat an incurable problem that can only get worse with age at least go in with you eyes open.That way you can think ahead and decide when it will be time to let her go....

    Depending on the heart defect she has surgery might be an option but it is very expensive and a little pup like a maltese may struggle with heart surgery.

    A responsible breeder will want to be made aware of the issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Hi OP,

    Did you get this puppy from a reputable breeder? If so they will be a member of the breed club and have to abide by the clubs rules, you will also have signed a sales contract and will have some comeback, so if you let us know the circumstances as to how and 'who' you bought the pup from, people can give you a better idea of what your options are. If not you have no comeback at all.

    In order to find out what the treatment would entail, the exact cause needs to be established. Ask your vet to refer you to a cardiology specialist if surgery is something you are considering. It may or may not be an option, be aware that again this depends on the cause, surgery is only an option for certain heart defects. In the meantime whatever decision you make you need to keep physical exercise to an absolute minimum, no unnecessary running around, jumping up, extended periods of play etc. The act of growing itself requires a lot of energy in itself so I would also seek advice on getting the pup's diet right. Did the vet tell you what grade the murmur was?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    This is going to sound harsh, but bring the pup back to the breeder and demand a full refund.

    Bring the puppy back and it will be put down.

    My folks were in the same position with a fantastic Border Terrier that had a double heart murmur. They had three lovely years with the dog.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    Bring the puppy back and it will be put down.

    If the pup was bought from a reputable breeder they will have the tests done themselves if it's brought back, they will need to know the cause for future breeding plans.

    If it wasn't bought from a reputable breeder, it still won't be put down, it'll be sold on to the next unsuspecting person.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    This is going to sound harsh, but bring the pup back to the breeder and demand a full refund.

    Bring the puppy back and it will be put down.

    My folks were in the same position with a fantastic Border Terrier that had a double heart murmur. They had three lovely years with the dog.

    Limbo at the end of the day as said previously the pup needs ultrasound for a better prognosis. My dog goes to Ucd to their cardiologist at €200 a visit per
    Month! Plus it involves her staying in ucd for the full day (which she hates, she screams so much she is infamous
    In Ucd). She is on medication that costs €70 per month and we spent €4000 last year alone on diagonositic tests for her heart. Maybe pup might need muscle biopsies etc which I was quoted €600 or a halter monitor €400 plus another €70 to get results compiled. My dog is on limited exercise In fact she hasn't had any walks in 2weeks as she is so tired the whole time. Everything I am going through with her I would not want to do again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    Bring the puppy back and it will be put down.

    My folks were in the same position with a fantastic Border Terrier that had a double heart murmur. They had three lovely years with the dog.

    That was their choice I assume. The OP has bought a puppy who will need considerable expensive treatment for what is likely a short life; when one buys a pup it is to suppose one will have a healthy dog for 10/15 years. In this case the dog is most likely poorly bred and is unlikely to live a long and fruitful life. So yes, as harsh as it might seem, the sensible thing to so is bring it back and get the money returned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    Millem wrote: »
    Limbo at the end of the day as said previously the pup needs ultrasound for a better prognosis. My dog goes to Ucd to their cardiologist at €200 a visit per
    Month! Plus it involves her staying in ucd for the full day (which she hates, she screams so much she is infamous
    In Ucd). She is on medication that costs €70 per month and we spent €4000 last year alone on diagonositic tests for her heart. Maybe pup might need muscle biopsies etc which I was quoted €600 or a halter monitor €400 plus another €70 to get results compiled. My dog is on limited exercise In fact she hasn't had any walks in 2weeks as she is so tired the whole time. Everything I am going through with her I would not want to do again.

    One of my dogs is also in bad health with over €4k spent since January alone. I lost count of how much it cost last year but we had to forgetbabout a much needed vacation. The prescription foods cost a bomb and so has all the emergency treatment.
    My dog is still Happy and content and we would be lost without her. I made the decision to bring animals into the house and into the family so I have a responsibility to look after them and spend as much as required to make sure they are ok. That is the unwritten rule of responsibly owning an pet.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    That was their choice I assume. The OP has bought a puppy who will need considerable expensive treatment for what is likely a short life; when one buys a pup it is to suppose one will have a healthy dog for 10/15 years. In this case the dog is most likely poorly bred and is unlikely to live a long and fruitful life. So yes, as harsh as it might seem, the sensible thing to so is bring it back and get the money returned.

    Yes, it was their choice. The murmurs were detected after two weeks and by that time, they were attached to the pup. The vet told them it would almost definitely be put down if returned to the breeder and they didn't want that to happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    Yes, it was their choice. The murmurs were detected after two weeks and by that time, they were attached to the pup. The vet told them it would almost definitely be put down if returned to the breeder and they didn't want that to happen.

    And in this case, unless the OP wishes to continue with an ailing dog, what your parents decided to do is not relevant. I understand your point, of course, we all become attached to our pets, but this case, from what I am reading, is a disaster from the off, an expensive disaster.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    One of my dogs is also in bad health with over €4k spent since January alone. I lost count of how much it cost last year but we had to forgetbabout a much needed vacation. The prescription foods cost a bomb and so has all the emergency treatment.
    My dog is still Happy and content and we would be lost without her. I made the decision to bring animals into the house and into the family so I have a responsibility to look after them and spend as much as required to make sure they are ok. That is the unwritten rule of responsibly owning an pet.


    This is your unwritten rule. Not everyone's. A poorly bred, sickly puppy is never going to be a dog that can thrive without expense, not everyone has the money to spend on such a creature. I have spent countless fees on a cat diagnosed with cancer at 16 until she was 21, as was my choice, but not everyone has that kind of money and not all animals enjoy such a life. If the OP cannot pay vast sums of money to care for a sickly pup weeks after getting her/him from a breeder she should return the pup and reclaim her money. Or put it to sleep now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    And in this case, unless the OP wishes to continue with an ailing dog, what your parents decided to do is not relevant. I understand your point, of course, we all become attached to our pets, but this case, from what I am reading, is a disaster from the off, an expensive disaster.

    Yes, it may not be relevant but the op may just decide based on that to keep a dog she has fallen in love with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    Millem wrote: »
    Limbo at the end of the day as said previously the pup needs ultrasound for a better prognosis. My dog goes to Ucd to their cardiologist at €200 a visit per
    Month! Plus it involves her staying in ucd for the full day (which she hates, she screams so much she is infamous
    In Ucd). She is on medication that costs €70 per month and we spent €4000 last year alone on diagonositic tests for her heart. Maybe pup might need muscle biopsies etc which I was quoted €600 or a halter monitor €400 plus another €70 to get results compiled. My dog is on limited exercise In fact she hasn't had any walks in 2weeks as she is so tired the whole time. Everything I am going through with her I would not want to do again.

    One of my dogs is also in bad health with over €4k spent since January alone. I lost count of how much it cost last year but we had to forgetbabout a much needed vacation. The prescription foods cost a bomb and so has all the emergency treatment.
    My dog is still Happy and content and we would be lost without her. I made the decision to bring animals into the house and into the family so I have a responsibility to look after them and spend as much as required to make sure they are ok. That is the unwritten rule of responsibly owning an pet.

    Well limbo123, you and I are in the very fortunate position of being able to afford expensive treatment, others may not be so lucky.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    She may, but it is not what I– hand on heart– would advise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    She may, but it is not what I– hand on heart– would advise.
    +1


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    This is your unwritten rule. Not everyone's. A poorly bred, sickly puppy is never going to be a dog that can thrive without expense, not everyone has the money to spend on such a creature. I have spent countless fees on a cat diagnosed with cancer at 16 until she was 21, as was my choice, but not everyone has that kind of money and not all animals enjoy such a life. If the OP cannot pay vast sums of money to care or a sickly pup weeks after getting her/him from a breeder she should return the pup and reclaim her money.

    And yes, it may just be my unwritten rule, but if you cannot afford the upkeep of a dog/ cat, buy a goldfish!

    If the op can't afford to pay vet bills in a worse case scenario, she shouldn't own a pet!

    In this worse case scenario, a ' poorly bred' pup has been purchased!!!!! There is plenty of info from vets/ kennel clubs/ Internet etc regarding purchasing of puppies!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Blaming the OP is not constructive, she didn't breed the dog and is now faced with an awful situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    Millem wrote: »
    Well limbo123, you and I are in the very fortunate position of being able to afford expensive treatment, others may not be so lucky.
    I'm not fortunate enough to afford expensive treatments. I'm in the same boat as most and have had to go without to pay for vet bills etc. But I understood when purchasing a dog that there may come a time when it's going to cost £££££££. be it sooner or later....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    Blaming the OP is not constructive, she didn't breed the dog and is now faced with an awful situation.

    I'm not trying to blame the op. You mentioned the dog was poorly bred which would most likely indicate that it has not been purchased from a reputable breeder


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭Magenta


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    And yes, it may just be my unwritten rule, but if you cannot afford the upkeep of a dog/ cat, buy a goldfish!

    If the op can't afford to pay vet bills in a worse case scenario, she shouldn't own a pet!

    In this worse case scenario, a ' poorly bred' pup has been purchased!!!!! There is plenty of info from vets/ kennel clubs/ Internet etc regarding purchasing of puppies!

    Who are you to be so judgemental??? You've spent what, 4k since last January alone? Not everyone has that kind of money, so stop lording it over other people. And by the way, throwing lots of money at a vet doesn't make you fit to own a dog. Quality of life is more important and if this puppy is going to have a sickly short life then maybe it would be better off put down.
    Shame all your money can't buy you some empathy. What a disgraceful thing to say about someone in such a position.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    Millem wrote: »
    Well limbo123, you and I are in the very fortunate position of being able to afford expensive treatment, others may not be so lucky.
    I'm not fortunate enough to afford expensive treatments. I'm in the same boat as most and have had to go without to pay for vet bills etc. But I understood when purchasing a dog that there may come a time when it's going to cost £££££££. be it sooner or later....

    I don't think many would foresee at such a young age a pup would be so sick. My dog was 2 when she got sick and couldn't believe how vet bills mounted thankfully I have pet insurance (which op doesn't have).


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Limbo123


    Magenta wrote: »
    Who are you to be so judgemental??? You've spent what, 4k since last January alone? Not everyone has that kind of money, so stop lording it over other people. And by the way, throwing lots of money at a vet doesn't make you fit to own a dog. Quality of life is more important and if this puppy is going to have a sickly short life then maybe it would be better off put down.
    Shame all your money can't buy you some empathy. What a disgraceful thing to say about someone in such a position.

    Truth hurts!!!

    And im not ' lording it' over anyone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭Magenta


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    Truth hurts!!!

    And im not ' lording it' over anyone.

    If your mind was as shrewd as your words are smug then maybe you would have bought some pet insurance and could have gone on your precious holiday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    OP, I am sure you are in total tatters over this, and imagine you love your pup deeply, but unless you have the financial wherewithal to deal with an ailing pup, I honestly suggest you return the dog or have her put to sleep. It must be horrific to be in this position and I have nothing buy sympathy for you, but this is unlikely to have a happy outcome. I wish you the best either way,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    AThere is plenty of info from vets/ kennel clubs/ Internet etc regarding purchasing of puppies!

    Yes there is, and I followed it but still found myself with the same decision to make as the OP. Because the breeder was a reputable breeder I was informed within an hour of the breeders appointment with their vet, when I was still 3 weeks away from collecting said pup. I walked away, it wasn't an easy decision to make but for mine and my family's circumstances it was the right decision. You neglected to inform the OP of the costs involved when you told them the pup will be PTS if sent back where it came from. It's the OP's decision to make, and they should only make that decision armed with all the information they can get.

    People who can't afford to buy pups from reputable breeders and pay for pet insurance are very unlikely to be in a position to afford the astronomical costs involved in the routine care of this dog.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭Magenta


    OP, I am sure you are in total tatters over this, and imagine you love your pup deeply, but unless you have the financial wherewithal to deal with an ailing pup, I honestly suggest you return the dog or have her put to sleep. It must be horrific for you and I have nothing buy sympathy for you, but this is unlikely to have a happy outcome. I wish you the best either way,

    I would agree that if the puppy is going to have a sickly or unhappy life because of its heart problems then it might be kinder to put it to sleep, as hard as it is :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭bfocusd


    I've a 12 week old pup, I have her three weeks now and I woukd be devastated to be in your position op, it's a very difficult position and I think speaking with the vet about the pups options in detail would help, even if it lives for a year I would rather keep it and let it live a happy but short life, I would be extremely upset, but happy that I tried my best.

    I also understand that the logical thing is to give it back, but I'd follow my heart.

    nothing could make me give up my pup, I'd find a way, blue cross also may be able to help, or you could fundraise to help fund its care.

    It's a difficult position but I'd try everything so I could follow my heart.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭Magenta


    Limbo123 wrote: »
    In this worse case scenario, a ' poorly bred' pup has been purchased!!!!! There is plenty of info from vets/ kennel clubs/ Internet etc regarding purchasing of puppies!

    Why didn't you and your parents read it then?


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