(UK) Man loses 5 of his kids in a fire

old hippy

Airitech wrote: »

The qualities my father has. How would you define it?

I wouldn't. There's no such thing as a real man.

omahaid

old hippy wrote: »

I wouldn't. There's no such thing as a real man.

Time for me to unfollow this thread methinks

seamus

Airitech wrote: »

The qualities my father has. How would you define it?

I think you've unwittingly illustrated old hippy's point exactly. What you consider to be a "real man" coincidentally has exactly the same traits as your strongest male role model.

Another person may consider Philpott with his terrified wife and "two bitches" comments to be a "real man".

Airitech

seamus wrote: »

I think you've unwittingly illustrated old hippy's point exactly. What you consider to be a "real man" coincidentally has exactly the same traits as your strongest male role model.

Another person may consider Philpott with his terrified wife and "two bitches" comments to be a "real man".

These are the qualities I believe a man should hold.

Confidence
Assertive
Hard working
Fair
Faces up to problems and deals with them
Looks after his family and those who need help
Stands up for his beliefs
Believes in action not talk

That's what my father is like, what he taught me to be and what I will be teaching my son.

My last post was abrupt because old hippy is using this thread to try to score points against people he doesn't agree with; Daily Mail readers, gay marriage opponents etc.

Clandestine

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Wrong!

Great to see long sentences handed down, should be pretty obvious from the Judge's remarks that he will never be getting out.

I was quite glad to read the report of the sentences this morning... he got what he deserved.

Airitech

Clandestine wrote: »

I was quite glad to read the report of the sentences this morning... he got what he deserved.

I'd like to have seen a longer minimum sentence for all of them, but realistically Mick Philpott doesn't stand any chance of getting parole after 17 years.

old hippy

Airitech wrote: »

These are the qualities I believe a man should hold.

Confidence
Assertive
Hard working
Fair
Faces up to problems and deals with them
Looks after his family and those who need help
Stands up for his beliefs
Believes in action not talk

That's what my father is like, what he taught me to be and what I will be teaching my son.

My last post was abrupt because old hippy is using this thread to try to score points against people he doesn't agree with; Daily Mail readers, gay marriage opponents etc.

No. I was posting that tangent because I'm constantly amazed by the idignation and hubris on boards on some topics. How one should conduct oneself socially, how one should fit it and what happens when people stray from the "norm" be it in a violently criminal way or just not adhering to the herd.

You yourself have just asserted a set of rules that makes a "real" man. How do you feel when people deviate from them? Are they not "real"?

Airitech

old hippy wrote: »

No. I was posting that tangent because I'm constantly amazed by the idignation and hubris on boards on some topics. How one should conduct oneself socially, how one should fit it and what happens when people stray from the "norm" be it in a violently criminal way or just not adhering to the herd.

You yourself have just asserted a set of rules that makes a "real" man. How do you feel when people deviate from them? Are they not "real"?

Don't get too hung up on a single adjective I used, that's the sign of
pedantry. Try to understand the concept, a man who deserves respect, a role model.

You didn't answer why you needed to use his tragedy to make some unclear point about gay marriage? You have already been called out on this thread by other posters for your mock outrage to score points. I'm guessing this is more of the same.

Airitech

old hippy wrote: »

You yourself have just asserted a set of rules that makes a "real" man. How do you feel when people deviate from them? Are they not "real"?

I posted a list of traits I respect and society would generally feel desirable in a man ( and woman) too. They aren't rules, but they will earn my respect.

old hippy

Airitech wrote: »

Don't get too hung up on a single adjective I used, that's the sign of
pedantry. Try to understand the concept, a man who deserves respect, a role model.

You didn't answer why you needed to use his tragedy to make some unclear point about gay marriage? You have already been called out on this thread by other posters for your mock outrage to score points. I'm guessing this is more of the same.

Guess away, so. I made the comment because some out there will bleat on about "proper" parenting or hetero marriages. How we should aspire to such. There's no such thing as "proper".

I've never expressed mock outrage in my life. I think you're mixing me up with someone else.

Airitech

old hippy wrote: »

Guess away, so. I made the comment because some out there will bleat on about "proper" parenting or hetero marriages. How we should aspire to such. There's no such thing as "proper".

I've never expressed mock outrage in my life. I think you're mixing me up with someone else.

Quote: old hippy
I guess all the DM loving anti-benefits crowd will be barely able to surpress their glee over this

Between that and your gay marriage comments its clear you have an agenda to push.

You'd swear he was caught without a tv licence. People were shocked by a callous murder, you were just upset that it might lend weight to your opponents arguments.

ahnowbrowncow

MidlandsM wrote: »

I watched the BBC documentary last night on it, shocking stuff.......

I was bemused at how Philpot and his wife said in secret recording how the couldn't figure out how the fire caught hold so quick and spread..........fcuking thicks.........Petrol (an accellerant), on a man made carpet, at the base of a upvc front door, at the base of a stairwell.........ignorant vermin scum.....

I hope they never get out...........ever .........

Can I watch the documentary online anywhere?

Grand Moff Tarkin

old hippy wrote: »

I wouldn't. There's no such thing as a real man.

What do you be smoking.

ahnowbrowncow

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Can I watch the documentary online anywhere?

BBC iPlayer, Panorama programme.

Madam

Here was me thinking all men were real:rolleyes:

mathepac

I'm disappointed at the sentences, particularly Philpott's. If "whole of natural life" in prison is available as a tariff for manslaughter in England, why was it not used? There is no-one I can think of more deserving of such a sentence.

There may be the torture for him of believing he will get released on licence (I pray he won't) but you never know.

I guess he'll be straight into a secure segregated prison somewhere to live out his life with the insect-type cockroaches for company. I just hope some big macho jail-house stud doesn't take it into his head to end Philpott's misery early.

Did anyone hear were there recommendations for the care of the other 11 children and mothers who had fallen under Philpott's thrall? I'd imagine extensive periods of detoxification and de-programming from Philpott's malign influence as well as their siblings' violent deaths would be provided for. Too late as usual to prevent the actions of this monster, maybe the Social Services in England can now intervene to help prevent more tragedy and misery in the future.

seamus

mathepac wrote: »

I'm disappointed at the sentences, particularly Philpott's. If "whole of natural life" in prison is available as a tariff for manslaughter in England, why was it not used? There is no-one I can think of more deserving of such a sentence.

The UK's system is very similar to ours. Even if "life without parole" is an option open to the judge, the defence can make an appeal against the sentence on the basis that it's too harsh.

There's then a risk that another judge will reduce the term to something like minimum ten years.

This judge would use her experience to try and determine what's an appropriate sentence that is least likely to be overturned on appeal.

Latchy

While in custody Philpott was still clinging onto the deluded hope that he and wife might still be released with his lawyer explaining to the judge that ''since the time he stabbed his ex girlfriend and her mother he had changed and become a loving father to his kids '' ... of course the judge wasn't having any of that shyte .How any lawyer would even want to represent this pile of piss is shocking and the idea that he may be released sooner or at all is abhorrent.

Cunning Stunt

I doubt we have heard the last from this piece of s**t yet.
The guy is a media whore - probably planning his book now... he might build himself up a nice little nest egg for his release, on the back of his crimes!

ArmaniJeanss

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

I doubt we have heard the last from this piece of s**t yet.
The guy is a media whore - probably planning his book now... he might build himself up a nice little nest egg for his release, on the back of his crimes!

That can't be done in the UK, can't be paid for interviews or receive fees or royalties for anything in relation to the crime.

seamus

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

That can't be done in the UK, can't be paid for interviews or receive fees or royalties for anything in relation to the crime.

Only in relation to the actual crime, as it falls under the proceeds of crime.

I'm sure there are plenty of PR bloodsuckers gurus lining up to advise Philpott and his wife on the best way to produce a compelling biography.

ArmaniJeanss

Latchy wrote: »

While in custody Philpott was still clinging onto the deluded hope that he and wife might still be released with his lawyer explaining to the judge that ''since the time he stabbed his ex girlfriend and her mother he had changed and become a loving father to his kids '' ... of course the judge wasn't having any of that shyte .How any lawyer would even want to represent this pile of piss is shocking and the idea that he may be released sooner or at all is abhorrent. How any lawyer would even want to represent this pile of piss is shocking and the idea that he may be released sooner or at all is abhorrent.

Barristers don't get any choice in the matter, if your name is next on the list and you get 'Philpott (Defence)' as your case then you are sworn to do the best by your client.
Try to get it thrown out on a technicality, if not then try to get them found not guilty, and failing that try to get the sentence mitigated.

old hippy

Airitech wrote: »

Quote: old hippy
I guess all the DM loving anti-benefits crowd will be barely able to surpress their glee over this

Between that and your gay marriage comments its clear you have an agenda to push.

You'd swear he was caught without a tv licence. People were shocked by a callous murder, you were just upset that it might lend weight to your opponents arguments.

I'm saddened but not shocked at the depravity of mankind. How upset do you want me to be, exactly?

Airitech

seamus wrote: »

The UK's system is very similar to ours. Even if "life without parole" is an option open to the judge, the defence can make an appeal against the sentence on the basis that it's too harsh.

There's then a risk that another judge will reduce the term to something like minimum ten years.

This judge would use her experience to try and determine what's an appropriate sentence that is least likely to be overturned on appeal.

We have had similiar issues here with life sentences for rape being overturned, like Christy Griffin:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sex-abuser-griffin-has-sentence-reduced-to-15-years-26779763.html

"Griffin (42), of Ridgewood Green, Swords, Co Dublin, and formerly of Canon Lillis Avenue in the north inner city, learned from his prison cell that his bid had proved successful as Mr Justice Nial Fennelly found the trial judge had erred in imposing a life sentence on two counts of rape.

The three-judge Court of Criminal Appeal (CCA), with Mr Justice Fennelly presiding, said the trial judge, Mr Justice Paul Carney, appeared to have treated Griffin's criminal record, described as "horrendous", as including "so-called extraneous events" relating to "some form of feud" when he handed down the life sentence."

Abracadabra99

Kali Easy Piece wrote: »

BBC iPlayer, Panorama programme.

Is BBC iplayer available in Ireland? Whenver I try to use it, it usually tells me I cannot watch it in my region or something.
Can you access it from here?

Airitech

old hippy wrote: »

I'm saddened but not shocked at the depravity of mankind. How upset do you want me to be, exactly?

Just enough to lay off the cheap digs for one thread, I wouldn't have thought it was hard to not try and capitalise on a tragedy like that so you can get one up on people you don't agree with.

You must have very little in your life to cause you to be such a small petty man.

Latchy

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Barristers don't get any choice in the matter, if your name is next on the list and you get 'Philpott (Defence)' as your case then you are sworn to do the best by your client.
Try to get it thrown out on a technicality, if not then try to get them found not guilty, and failing that try to get the sentence mitigated.

Many evil people get lenient sentences as a result of good defence by barristers of course .It's just a pity that it doesn't apply as to how the defendant should spend his time in jail ie, breaking rocks in a quarry, or some cosy rehabilitation which will have zero effect ? .

seamus wrote: »

Only in relation to the actual crime, as it falls under the proceeds of crime.

I'm sure there are plenty of PR bloodsuckers gurus lining up to advise Philpott and his wife on the best way to produce a compelling biography.

This article expands on this a bit .http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2303659/Mick-Philpott-Jeremy-Kyle-How-TV-helped-create-Shameless-Mick.html


I fcuking hate the JK show to .

KKkitty

Would their fellow inmates be informed as to who they are and what they've done?

SEPT 23 1989

KKkitty wrote: »

Would their fellow inmates be informed as to who they are and what they've done?

I would give it 2 minutes before they are recognised

Airitech

KKkitty wrote: »

Would their fellow inmates be informed as to who they are and what they've done?

I don't think the inmates would be told explicitly but they have newspapers and TVs so everyone would know who the three are.

old hippy

Airitech wrote: »

Just enough to lay off the cheap digs for one thread, I wouldn't have thought it was hard to not try and capitalise on a tragedy like that so you can get one up on people you don't agree with.

You must have very little in your life to cause you to be such a small petty man.

I don't agree with people calling for torture, death penalty, murder and prison rapes either. I'm not going to stay silent on it.

Yes, I guess I must have very little in my life - having such opinions that rankles you so much.

Lucky old you with your real man of a father.

Grand Moff Tarkin

old hippy wrote: »

I don't agree with people calling for torture, death penalty, murder and prison rapes either. I'm not going to stay silent on it.

Yes, I guess I must have very little in my life - having such opinions that rankles you so much.

Lucky old you with your real man of a father.

Your s***e must smell of wildflowers.

Airitech

old hippy wrote: »

I don't agree with people calling for torture, death penalty, murder and prison rapes either. I'm not going to stay silent on it.

Yes, I guess I must have very little in my life - having such opinions that rankles you so much.

Lucky old you with your real man of a father.

Why so bitter? I'm very lucky to have a father who is respected, the kind of man a reasonable person would aspire to be.

We could do with more men like that instead the petty spiteful kind.

Much as I'd love to engage you in a race to the last word on this, I don't fancy spending the rest of the evening in an intellectual fencing match with an unarmed opponent.

old hippy

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Your s***e must smell of wildflowers.

I thought you were concerned with what I'm smoking.

Getting back to the matter of benefits, oily Osborne wants there to be a debate on the benefits culture

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22025035

Asked about such claims, Mr Osborne said a debate was needed about whether the state should "subsidise lifestyles like that".

efb

@JonnieMarbLes: Remember when Harold Shipman killed several hundred people on purpose and we debated whether that means all middle class people are evil?

Retweeted by Frankie Boyle

mathepac

Airitech wrote: »

Why so bitter? I'm very lucky to have a father who is respected, the kind of man a reasonable person would aspire to be. ...

old hippy wrote: »

I thought you were concerned with what I'm smoking. ...

Lads I'd be very happy if the pair of you cut out the childish sniping from the thread.

A particularly evil man and his two acolytes went to prison today for killing six innocent little children. Are your egos so big that you can't lay off the nonsense and the insults here and move your crap to another thread out of respect for the little lives so brutally ended?

Report me to the mods if you like for back-seat modding (no choice when there is no-one in the front seat) and let that lead where it will, but please shut up the bitchy exchanges - I have no interest whatsoever and you're disrupting the flow of the thread. PM each other and bypass swear-filters as well. Personally I won't miss either of you.

Thanks.

Latchy

efb wrote: »

@JonnieMarbLes: Remember when Harold Shipman killed several hundred people on purpose and we debated whether that means all middle class people are evil?

Retweeted by Frankie Boyle

Jeffrey Bamber to

old hippy wrote: »

Getting back to the matter of benefits, oily Osborne wants there to be a debate on the benefits culture

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22025035

Asked about such claims, Mr Osborne said a debate was needed about whether the state should "subsidise lifestyles like that".

Which ties in neatly with his welfare cuts introduced this week and highlighted by the actions of and the deaths of Philpott's children .

Of course there should a debate on welfare reforms but in superstar Philpott's case ,they had the opportunity to tackle him when he appeared on the JK show and the Ann Widdecome ' living on Benefits ' special in 2007 .

Airitech

mathepac wrote: »

Lads I'd be very happy if the pair of you cut out the childish sniping from the thread.

A particularly evil man and his two acolytes went to prison today for killing six innocent little children. Are your egos so big that you can't lay off the nonsense and the insults here and move your crap to another thread out of respect for the little lives so brutally ended?

Report me to the mods if you like for back-seat modding (no choice when there is no-one in the front seat) and let that lead where it will, but please shut up the bitchy exchanges - I have no interest whatsoever and you're disrupting the flow of the thread. PM each other and bypass swear-filters as well. Personally I won't miss either of you.

Thanks.

I don't really care what you think, i had an opinion to give and I gave it. Your contribution to this thread seems to be limited to pedantic sniping about whether the Philpott family was Irish or English and some tedious back seat modding.

If you have something constructive to add please feel free to do so.

Airitech

Latchy wrote: »

Jeffrey Bamber to

Which ties in neatly with his welfare cuts introduced this week and highlighted by the actions of and the deaths of Philpott's children .

Of course there should a debate on welfare reforms but in superstar Philpott's case ,they had the opportunity to tackle him when he appeared on the JK show and the Ann Widdecome ' living on Benefits ' special in 2007 .

I thought some progress had been made on capping the total benefits a household could get?

dd972

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/apr/04/mick-philpott-celebrity-prisoner-rivals

good piece on what sort of prison life awaits Philpott, he'd be in a bit of a grey area inside, a prime target for attack.reviled for his attitude to women and kids yet not regarded as a nonce or grass.

he'll undoubtedly form alliances in there due as he'd find fellow scummers to associate with like he would in most places in the UK or Ireland where his ilk live.

Sir Oxman

old hippy wrote: »

Ah, so it's all down to the likes of me, eh? :rolleyes:

I don't agree with people who abuse the system, no, of course not. But I don't wish to demonise them and use this horrible case and that man as some kind of poster boy for your cause.

So spare me your crocodile tears.

I have to agree with the bit in bold.
Already, chinless wonder George Osbourne has sprung up cynically declaring a link between these horrendous, vile murderers and people on out-of-work benefits.

As an opinion piece in The Independent said today:

"The truth is that the Philpotts say nothing about anyone, except for themselves, just as the serial murderer GP Harold Shipman said nothing about middle-class professionals. There are, and have always been, a small minority of individuals capable of breathtaking cruelty. The Philpott case relates in no way to people on benefits in this country."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/philpott-verdict-blame-the-man-not-his-class-8557509.html

dharma200

using this horrific case as an example of any type of reform in any type of governmental legislation is the most horrific and disgusting abuse of public office. I hope these children haunt osborne, th elife they had, the life they might have had, most probably consigned to the gutter like the millions of potential so called philpotts.. all those men who get the dole.. its a disgusting disgrace to use the death of these children as some sort of backing for the horrific welfare so called reforms that will send many families into deep poverty, deep depression and no hope. What kind of human being uses the death of these children as some sort odf highlight to place other children in to poverty. Disgusting.. and for the two of you who are bickering over some sort of rubbish, get a grip of yourselves and have some respect for those who burnt to death. my god i despair sometimes

KKkitty

What's the bets that Jeremy Kyle will do an interview with Phillpott in prison?

Airitech

KKkitty wrote: »

What's the bets that Jeremy Kyle will do an interview with Phillpott in prison?

Jeremy will be getting some mileage of this one way or another. I get the feeling we will be inundated with clips of the righteous Jeremy "taking on" and "confronting" the Philpotts.

Steve O

The man is the very definition of scum. Poor kids never had a chance with them people as parents.

WhatNowForUs?

Steve O wrote: »

The man is the very definition of scum. Poor kids never had a chance with them people as parents.

Any reports I've heard was that the children were very well behaved and by all accounts nice and friendly.

Latchy

Airitech wrote: »

I thought some progress had been made on capping the total benefits a household could get?

There has but Osbourne wanting to create a welfare system that rewards work is all fine in theory but the reality for many who don't wish to depend on benefits can be quite different and nothing like the life style of the Mick Philpotts of the world .

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

Any reports I've heard was that the children were very well behaved and by all accounts nice and friendly.

The children were the only shining light in all of this .

Philpott ,his women and associates are all toxic and he and they were only fooling their own kind .

MrPoker

dd972 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/apr/04/mick-philpott-celebrity-prisoner-rivals

good piece on what sort of prison life awaits Philpott, he'd be in a bit of a grey area inside, a prime target for attack.reviled for his attitude to women and kids yet not regarded as a nonce or grass.

he'll undoubtedly form alliances in there due as he'd find fellow scummers to associate with like he would in most places in the UK or Ireland where his ilk live.

Can't believe the papers are calling him a celebrity. He'll be loving that type of notoriety.

Airitech

MrPoker wrote: »

Can't believe the papers are calling him a celebrity. He'll be loving that type of notoriety.

Someone else posted an article from the Daily Mail talking about how reality tv contributed to this guys ego. This is oxygen to this creep.

allibastor

Could I ask a question. On boards there had always been a good divide between people who think the criminals need to be treated and rehabilitated, such as the guys who killed James bulger.

Can anyone say that this guy and his wife should not just be killed? I mean really? It will cost the tax payer over 250k a year to provide then with extra security after this. Do they really deserve to be kept in prison ? Would the world not be better off if they ceased to exist?