Do you go to Mass regularly?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

philologos wrote: »

Again, I've explained in the following post the Christian position on dietary laws. Jesus fulfilled the dietary laws in Mark 7. Indeed, the Bible explicitly makes clear that there are two covenant agreements, the Old Covenant agreement with the Hebrews in the State of Israel, and the fulfillment of that in the New Covenant agreement in the New Testament. By the by, the Old Testament clearly says that there will be a new covenant agreement (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

If you're just going to ignore what I say this isn't going to be a very fruitful discussion. The reality is that the objection that you have made can be very easily explained.

The shrimp was excellent. As is the free-will. When I made the shellfood comment I was not intending you to take me literally. Nor does the Bible.

TeddyTedson

Coal1978 wrote: »

It's slow aerobics for old people.....sit down, stand up, kneel down, now repeat 3 times over the course of 40 mins.

lol

If you think about it though, it probably is good for old folk to get out...and kneel down on a plank of wood in a cold damp open room



I haven't been in a church in a few years. As my Dad says, I'll probably burst into flames the next time I return. :rolleyes:

I think people who do go and attend mass in a catholic church are lost causes at this stage. How people can continue to support the catholic church with everything that's gone I have no idea. What would they have to do to stop these people from attending

That being said I think spiritual belief is extremely healthy for people. I know there's a few atheists on boards who won't agree.

Buddhism ftw

Greentopia

Sharrow wrote: »

The RC considers it self to be hotel california, you can check out but you can never leave.

They do believe you cannot be unbaptised but you used to be able to officially leave. I did about 2 years ago. I formally defected, have the paper work to prove it and an annotated Baptismal Cert. I believe they've made a change to canon law now that removed all references to the formal Act Of Defection and that has effectively stopped the defection process.

hiram

Sharrow wrote: »

You already did impose your religion on him.

You signed him up when he was a babe and made a promise to have him indoctrinated and made an adult member of the RC church.
That happened when he was confirmed.

As far as the RC church is concerned he is a fully paid up member and will be forever.

If you really wanted him to have a real choice you would not have had him baptised.

I have to laugh at that argument that keeps popping up-that once a member of the RC Church you will always be a member. Complete rubbish, do those of us who dont attend mass really care about the Roman Catholic Church? And exactly what will happen to any of us if we never attend mass again?? Im a Freemason and a Roman Catholic, so technically I should be excommunicated.....Im still waiting for the letter through the door to finally free me of this (apparent) burden.....hmmmm. Anyway, life goes on....

Greentopia

bbam wrote: »

I've only looked at some posts in this thread but it strikes me that there is much more abuse and general disrespect being given from many of those who don't attend mass or partake in any religion at all. It sorta proves a point really.

Not from me matey. I'm openly atheist here and haven't abused anyone. I have no respect for religion of any flavour and will state as much in conversation with anyone if asked my opinions on the matter but as I've mentioned already I don't disrespect people who are religious. It's up to them what they want to believe.

The only point personal abuse proves is that some atheists can be assholes, just as some religious can be assholes.

partyatmygaff

Greentopia wrote: »

They do believe you cannot be unbaptised but you used to be able to officially leave. I did about 2 years ago. I formally defected, have the paper work to prove it and an annotated Birth Cert.

Birth cert? Since when is religion recorded on your birth cert?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Exactly. They can quote numbers as much as they want, I don't believe (in the church) and I don't go.

The Germans have a nice system here: you register your address and you state a religion. Then 3% extra tax is deducted form you and given to the church you nominate. You're welcome to declare yourself and athiest and have nothing deducted.

Bring that in and see how many Catholics there are on the books.

Greentopia

hiram wrote: »

Im a Freemason and a Roman Catholic, so technically I should be excommunicated.....Im still waiting for the letter through the door to finally free me of this (apparent) burden.....hmmmm. Anyway, life goes on....

They'd have to be made aware of your "sin" though and unless you're going to announce it to your local priest or Bishop I'd say excommunication is unlikely

Greentopia

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Birth cert? Since when is religion recorded on your birth cert?

Sorry I meant baptismal cert! I'll amend my post.

philologos

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The shrimp was excellent. As is the free-will. When I made the shellfood comment I was not intending you to take me literally. Nor does the Bible.

Since you've not presented any meaningful argument against my position that the Bible clearly tells Christians not to neglect meeting together in Hebrews 10, can I conclude that there's not much of a good argument against it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

philologos wrote: »

Since you've not presented any meaningful argument against my position that the Bible clearly tells Christians not to neglect meeting together in Hebrews 10, can I conclude that there's not much of a good argument against it?

You see, the problem here is that I don't believe you're using an accurate or consistant source. It deosn't matter what the Bible says because the Bible is inaccurate, contradicts itself and is not intended to be taken as literally as you take it. That's my point. My opinion is that God gives us free will. Religion takes it away. It does so, by appointing a preacher, which, as I said, is in direct opposition of what I believe to be the correct interpretation of Hebrews 10.

philologos

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

You see, the problem here is that I don't believe you're using an accurate or consistant source. It deosn't matter what the Bible says because the Bible is inaccurate, contradicts itself and is not intended to be taken as literally as you take it. That's my point. My opinion is that God gives us free will. Religion takes it away. It does so, by appointing a preacher, which, as I said, is in direct opposition of what I believe to be the correct interpretation of Hebrews 10.

The New Testament also clearly talks about leadership structures in churches in both 1 Timothy and Titus. In fact Hebrews itself talks about the church.

On the Christianity forum we've had quite a few people who have claimed contradictions in the Bible post, but none of them have actually held up on analysis, so I hold that with skepticism.

My main point simply put was that the Bible clearly tells Christians to meet together in Hebrews 10. That's all I wanted to say to those who said that Christians shouldn't go to church.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

philologos wrote: »

The New Testament also clearly talks about leadership structures in churches in both 1 Timothy and Titus. In fact Hebrews itself talks about the church.

On the Christianity forum we've had quite a few people who have claimed contradictions in the Bible post, but none of them have actually held up on analysis, so I hold that with skepticism.

My main point simply put was that the Bible clearly tells Christians to meet together in Hebrews 10. That's all I wanted to say to those who said that Christians shouldn't go to church.

Still don't see it commanding, to be honest. It doesn't tell you to do something it says to not neglect doing something. It could simply meen going for a beer with your Christian buddies, or not neglecting a sence of sorority or community. All very good advice, but certainly not ordering you to attend a service.

I take you point about people saying that Christians shouldn't go to church - sayign that is a bit daft, to be hoenst -

Morag

hiram wrote: »

I have to laugh at that argument that keeps popping up-that once a member of the RC Church you will always be a member.

According to their doctrine and records you will always be a member.[/quote]

hiram wrote: »

Complete rubbish, do those of us who dont attend mass really care about the Roman Catholic Church? And exactly what will happen to any of us if we never attend mass again??

You are considered a lapsed catholic.

hiram wrote: »

Im a Freemason and a Roman Catholic, so technically I should be excommunicated.....Im still waiting for the letter through the door to finally free me of this (apparent) burden.....hmmmm. Anyway, life goes on....

If you are serious about seeking excommunication then contact the office of your local bishop. But even if you get your rite of excommunication (I have one) you are still a member of the RC just a member in Very Bad Standing.

shawnee

Sharrow wrote: »

The RC considers it self to be hotel california, you can check out but you can never leave.

Bull**** !:D Never had any one chasing me or anyone that I know All in your head man !

1ZRed

Why does anything even remotely religious get so much attention in these forums?:rolleyes:

dpe

Quality wrote: »

Bribed to take communion? What is that all about.


Enlighten me?

So kids in Ireland don't get parties and the bouncy castle and the Playstations and the money from relatives then? And they don't all compare notes? And the parents don't all go "ah well they have to fit in don't they?"

Must be some other Ireland I've been living in the last few years. (For the record, catholic kids in the UK get none of that kind of thing for their communion).

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dpe wrote: »

So kids in Ireland don't get parties and the bouncy castle and the Playstations and the money from relatives then? And they don't all compare notes? And the parents don't all go "ah well they have to fit in don't they?"

Must be some other Ireland I've been living in the last few years. (For the record, catholic kids in the UK get none of that kind of thing for their communion).

So irish kids are abusing the catholic chuch. Turnaround is fair play.

Fr_Dougal

shawnee wrote: »

Bull**** !:D Never had any one chasing me or anyone that I know All in your head man !

Think again...

Morag

1ZRed wrote: »

Why does anything even remotely religious get so much attention in these forums?:rolleyes:

It doesn't, try starting a thread about minorty religions and they drop off the front page like an anvil dropped from a hot air balloon.

Galwayguy35

A guy I used to work with and am friends with on Facebook is an athiest and a militant one at that. Low and behold what do I see yesterday only pics on FB of him with his gf (also an athiest) at the church for their kids Communion. Talk about double standards.

ABajaninCork

Short answer? Yes!

nozzferrahhtoo

philologos wrote: »

If you're just going to ignore what I say this isn't going to be a very fruitful discussion.

Glad to see you have learned this. Now if you would only stop ignoring what everyone else has to say to you... every.... single..... time.... the conversation can become two way.

southcentralts

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

A guy I used to work with and am friends with on Facebook is an athiest and a militant one at that. Low and behold what do I see yesterday only pics on FB of him with his gf (also an athiest) at the church for their kids Communion. Talk about double standards.

not a double standard if they allow the kid to take communion with the rest of the class, to fit in with their peer group, instead of telling the kid "no communion in this house, take that Jeboss stuff elsewhere." like the religious types do. I'd bet the it has little to do with religion and a lot to do with right of passage / coming of age malarkey. since when do atheists give up their Irish responsibility to celebrate the sh!t out of anything, and the absolute sh!t out of something (even if it does disagree with our beliefs, still go to funerals in churches, but gave up telling grieving widows that there is no heaven - brings the whole room down).

dmcronin

Why can't Mass be more, well, entertaining?

Fuseman

I go to Mass weekly. I suppose I go because my faith is something personal to me. I don't go to Mass to be entertained, Although I have gone to Mass where it has been entertaining due to Music being good, homily entertaining etc.

I also think that Masses that are classified as boring are usually due to the priest being bored and not putting effort into Mass but as I said above, I go because faith is something I believe is beneficial to me and the way I live my life.

I Heart Internet

dmcronin wrote: »

Why can't Mass be more, well, entertaining?

Not to sound like an old/young fogey but if you've never seen high mass in the older (pre mid-sixties) form (now called the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite) you're missing a trick.

Even from a totally unreligious viewpoint its an interesting priece of theatre. Like something out of Star Wars for those of us brought up on the plainer, simpler, english-language form.

Don't want to open a big debate about the merits of the old-rite and latin, etc. I would just point out that from an historical, cultural and "entertainment" poitn of view, I reckon everyone should get to experience that once in their life to see what its like. Cork and Dublin certainly have regular high masses in the extraordinary form. More info here I think:
http://www.latinmassireland.org/

On the OP - yes I try to make mass once a week unless I'm travelling. Variety of complex reasons but what it boils down to is - going to mass makes me a happier person.

nozzferrahhtoo

Trying to play devils advocate to myself I am trying to decide if I did think there was a god.... against the not just slight but entire lack of evidence that there even might be.... would I go to mass regularly or at all.

I think I have decided I would not even then and the reason is that mass is pretty poor as an exploration of the faith. Its formulaic, rigid, one way and repetitive. There is little there to allow one to explore or celebrate ones faith in most of the churches or denominations except for the eating of magic crackers in the catholic one.

One example of this that comes to mind often is the reaction I often get when I ask a Christian to read the bible..... something depressingly few of them seem bothered to do despite their claims they think there is a god and the Bible is its word..... one wonders how many believers actually do believe.....

That reaction is often one of shock when they actually see a Bible. They are shocked at how big it is. Even people who went to mass a lot. The reason is that they have heard the same handful of cherry picked passages from it in Mass over and over again so often that they became convinced that that was all that was actually in it. They have no idea how much content is actually in there.

So if I were a man of delusion... sorry faith... I do not think Mass would be my method of exploration of that faith given the poor, paltry, cherry picked minisculity it actually offers in the exploration of that faith.

No wonder recent studies in the US showed atheists know the bible more then theists do. Atheists actually explore it. Theists sit back and let men in dresses do it for them and they think this is enough. Meanwhile it is down to people like, of all things, Atheist Ireland to start a "Read the Bible" campaign. One wonders if those trying to sell the faith generally want you to actually read it at all given they are not the ones often implementing such campaigns.

If that is what mass offers then no thanks I say.

Galwayguy35

southcentralts wrote: »

not a double standard if they allow the kid to take communion with the rest of the class, to fit in with their peer group, instead of telling the kid "no communion in this house, take that Jeboss stuff elsewhere." like the religious types do. I'd bet the it has little to do with religion and a lot to do with right of passage / coming of age malarkey. since when do atheists give up their Irish responsibility to celebrate the sh!t out of anything, and the absolute sh!t out of something (even if it does disagree with our beliefs, still go to funerals in churches, but gave up telling grieving widows that there is no heaven - brings the whole room down).

Typical atheist response. Give out on threads about people saying they are Catholic but ah sure it's ok for atheists to send their kid to get communion so he/she won't feel left out.

nozzferrahhtoo

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Typical atheist response. Give out on threads about people saying they are Catholic but ah sure it's ok for atheists to send their kid to get communion so he/she won't feel left out.

There is quite a difference between not wanting your child to FEEL left out and not wanting your child to BE left out. One can fight against the regime the Church has over the Education system in our country while still relenting to put ones own children INTO that system.

Change is not going to come quickly in relation to Religion in Ireland and one can fight the fight against the Church without denying ones children the education that that Church currently has a monopoly on. One has little choice.

IF a non religious school is available for your child then by all means take it... if it is not then take the school that is while you fight to change this fact.

Galwayguy35

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

There is quite a difference between not wanting your child to FEEL left out and not wanting your child to BE left out. One can fight against the regime the Church has over the Education system in our country while still relenting to put ones own children INTO that system.

Change is not going to come quickly in relation to Religion in Ireland and one can fight the fight against the Church without denying ones children the education that that Church currently has a monopoly on. One has little choice.

IF a non religious school is available for your child then by all means take it... if it is not then take the school that is while you fight to change this fact.

I think you're slightly missing my point here. I'm talking about atheists sending their kids on for communion when they or the kids have no belief whatsoever in the ceremony. My original post was about a guy I know in real life who did this and this guy is a hardline atheist and very anti church.
It just seems hypocritical.

Ghost Buster

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think you're slightly missing my point here. I'm talking about atheists sending their kids on for communion when they or the kids have no belief whatsoever in the ceremony. My original post was about a guy I know in real life who did this and this guy is a hardline atheist and very anti church.
It just seems hypocritical.

Is it hypocritical when folk who, other than ticking "Catholic" on the census do nothing in their lives particularly Catholic and similarly put their kids through a ceremony they have no belief in?

eth0

I don't go to mass but I think I'll start going again soon

Run_to_da_hills

eth0 wrote: »

I don't go to mass but I think I'll start going again soon

You should try a different church other than the Catholic Church.

prinz

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

The reason is that they have heard the same handful of cherry picked passages from it in Mass over and over again so often that they became convinced that that was all that was actually in it. They have no idea how much content is actually in there........given the poor, paltry, cherry picked minisculity it actually offers in the exploration of that faith..

Over 70% of the New Testament would be included in the RCC mass cycle. Hardly "cherry picked minusculity".

http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm

Adyx

I'd rather go to Hell.

Galwayguy35

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Is it hypocritical when folk who, other than ticking "Catholic" on the census do nothing in their lives particularly Catholic and similarly put their kids through a ceremony they have no belief in?

Yes it is.

nozzferrahhtoo

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think you're slightly missing my point here. I'm talking about atheists sending their kids on for communion when they or the kids have no belief whatsoever in the ceremony. My original post was about a guy I know in real life who did this and this guy is a hardline atheist and very anti church. It just seems hypocritical.

Then you are missing my point, not me missing yours, because that is what I replied to. My point was that as long as there is any discrimination at all leveled against children who have not been baptized, confirmed etc then even if one is a firm fighter against these things one may have to put their children through those traditions anyway so that they are not made to lose out while you fight the fight to have this changed.

Drop over to the Atheist part of this forum sometime and do a search on it. A lot of parents who post "What will happen if I keep my child out of communion" are simply scared that their children will suffer the repercussions of their choice if they do not.

Religion is notoriously good at this.... cajoling people into silence, keeping them from dissenting, by making them fear the consequences, real or imagined.

prinz wrote: »

Over 70% of the New Testament would be included in the RCC mass cycle. Hardly "cherry picked minusculity".

Do not tell me, tell the people who I have given the bible to who simply could not believe its size because they have hardly heard any of it except the same hand picked stories over and over. The very first line in your link is "How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? Not as much as you might think"

Also just because certain passages are on the cycle, does not mean any individual church has to read from them right? They just have to select from that cycle.

Also I am not just talking about the catholic faith as your link is. I am talking about all the Christians I have given a Bible to or somehow tried to get them to read one and my experiences at how many of them are simply shocked at the size of the book when they first see it. Anecdotal yes, but certainly makes me wonder and certainly makes me feel if I were a man of delusion/faith that mass and church would likely not be my first choice on how to explore that.

supernova84

It's just not what it used to be