How much should I charge?

marrakechheat

Hello all,

I am hoping to get some advice on being a childminder. I just completed FETAC Level 5 Childcare with Special Needs course and got offered a job to mind 2 children (4yo boy and 2yo girl) in their own home, 5 days a week 8am-6pm. Currently, they both attend a crèche full time. The 4yo boy will attend local preschool in September 5 days a week for 3 hrs each day. The 2yo girl will be at home at all times for at least 1 yr. The parents would like me to start July or August to get the children into the routine being with a childminder before September comes.

I have never been a childminder before so I really need advice on how much to charge. The parents has said that they are willing to pay 250 euro/week which I am not sure of. The amount includes meals, outdoor activity (to the park by car etc) and preschool runs (the preschool is within walking distance but depending on weather).

I am not a registered or insured childminder and I don’t have any childminding experience but 50 euro/ day to mind 2 children for 10 hrs including meals and occasional car usage seems too little perhaps? The parents would like me to arrange activity everyday for the 2yo girl because she won’t be attending crèche which is understandable. I plan to provide all perishable materials for the activities anyways so I need to include that expenses into my salary.

How much should I get paid considering all the information I just described? What about tax and PRSI? What about holidays, do childminders get paid during hols? Are childminders entitled to paid days off? God forbid, but if a child had an accident under my watch, what will happen?

How Strange

As far as I know if you're minding the children in the family home you are employed by the parents and are paid a salary, so minimum wage, and they deduct tax, prsi, universal social charge and you are entitled to the statutory annual leave.

I also think, if you're minding the children in their home that any food, equipment etc should be provided by the parents. As for insurance I'd guess if you're an employee then they should have the insurance not you.

marrakechheat

How Strange wrote: »

As far as I know if you're minding the children in the family home you are employed by the parents and are paid a salary, so minimum wage, and they deduct tax, prsi, universal social charge and you are entitled to the statutory annual leave.

I also think, if you're minding the children in their home that any food, equipment etc should be provided by the parents. As for insurance I'd guess if you're an employee then they should have the insurance not you.

Thank you for your quick reply How Strange. if I get paid the minimum wage 8.65/ hr, it should have been 432.50/week. big difference from 250 euro/week. i consulted with my tutor, she said the average salary for my situation would be 10 - 12 euro/ hr because I am a qualified childcare worker with own car and full license.

i did think about the meals, i mean if i was minding them in their own home, dont they want the children to eat their own food that they know the quality of. not that i mind providing meals as long as the salary is adequate.

your reply has helped me a lot, thank you

How Strange

I should've said at least minimum wage. After that it's all about negotiation. However nannies are generally more expensive than child minders or crèches because they come to the family home and only mind those children. A childminder in her own home could mind other children at the same time.

yellowcrayon

How Strange wrote: »

As far as I know if you're minding the children in the family home you are employed by the parents and are paid a salary, so minimum wage, and they deduct tax, prsi, universal social charge and you are entitled to the statutory annual leave.

I also think, if you're minding the children in their home that any food, equipment etc should be provided by the parents. As for insurance I'd guess if you're an employee then they should have the insurance not you.

This is all true.. You should be getting AT LEAST minimum wage, especially if you have to provide the materials for activities and use your own car during working hours.

I learnt the hard way and accepted 6e an hour for minding 2 children (of similar age to those 2 children) and ran myself into the ground trying to do the amount of work she was giving me.

If you are cooking and cleaning and doing arts and crafts etc, i think you should be looking for 9.50 - 10e an hour or agree on a day rate of 75e an hour and also ask for days that preschool drop off and playground trips are asked of you that you get maybe 5e for petrol.

January

They will be your employer, so minimum wage at least. If you were minding them in your own home €5 euro per hour, per child would be about right. Also, take into account that if you are transporting them in your car, your insurance class would change as you are not just using it for Social, Domestic and Pleasure purposes so your insurance premium will increase also.

marrakechheat

How Strange wrote: »

I should've said at least minimum wage. After that it's all about negotiation. However nannies are generally more expensive than child minders or crèches because they come to the family home and only mind those children. A childminder in her own home could mind other children at the same time.

i was actually thinking 10 euro/hr considering i have to use my own car and i am willing to arrange educational activities + providing perishable materials. I know i dont have to do that but I cant use TV as their only entertainment.

My tutor also said the same, that the reason for 10 - 12 euro /hr is because i am "limited" to mind only their children full time and wont be able to take up other work. I can also give the children close attention that they probably wont get in creches.

marrakechheat

yellowcrayon wrote: »

This is all true.. You should be getting AT LEAST minimum wage, especially if you have to provide the materials for activities and use your own car during working hours.

I learnt the hard way and accepted 6e an hour for minding 2 children (of similar age to those 2 children) and ran myself into the ground trying to do the amount of work she was giving me.

If you are cooking and cleaning and doing arts and crafts etc, i think you should be looking for 9.50 - 10e an hour or agree on a day rate of 75e an hour and also ask for days that preschool drop off and playground trips are asked of you that you get maybe 5e for petrol.

Hi yellowcrayon, thank you for sharing. So glad to hear from a childminder. The parents did say the job include light housework but we agreed that I can only do housework when the children are happy, clean and fed so I think I made it clear that housework cant be mandatory.

As I was thinking of 10 euro/ hr, it would be 100 euro/ day. Am I being mad for charging that? I really dont wanna sound ungrateful
I did feel disappointed when the 250 euro amount was mentioned because it means I am being paid 5 euro an hr to mind 2 children, but i have always been awkward to talk about money or salary or wage and just said ill have a think about it. Probably not a wise thing to do

ill have to contact the parents soon and say it as it is I think

marrakechheat

January wrote: »

They will be your employer, so minimum wage at least. If you were minding them in your own home €5 euro per hour, per child would be about right. Also, take into account that if you are transporting them in your car, your insurance class would change as you are not just using it for Social, Domestic and Pleasure purposes so your insurance premium will increase also.

Hi January,

I will mind them in their own home and thinking of charging 10euro/hr to mind 2 children.

OMG, i never thought of the car insurance :eek: Thank you very muchhhh , I will check now

yellowcrayon

marrakechheat wrote: »

100 euro/ day. Am I being mad for charging that? I really dont wanna sound ungrateful
I did feel disappointed when the 250 euro amount was mentioned because it means I am being paid 5 euro an hr to mind 2 children, but i have always been awkward to talk about money or salary or wage and just said ill have a think about it. Probably not a wise thing to do

250e is way too little, because when they say light housework, they mean you will be doing it everyday (even though they make it sound like its something you dont have to do; just something if you have a spare few minutes).

A 10 hour day is a long day, and 50e for that is a joke.. im sure the parents wouldnt work for 5e an hour.. and im sure you have mortgage/rent and bills to pay for too and this is too little money to do this; so the very minimum I would accept is 75e per day... thats only 375e a week so i dont think thats unreasonable to ask for.

And what January said is right, so maybe you should explain this to your employer.

Hope to hear how you get on after talking with the parents.. Best of luck

How Strange

Op, your starting salary is very important not least because it dictates how the family will see you. If you accept too low wages you'll be seen as a skivvy and not as a qualified child minder. They'll expect you to do everything including the housework.

I'd be very wary about agreeing to do housework. It's reasonable to expect you to clean up after the children but not to change bed clothes, vacuum, iron etc. Again, if you initially agree to do these things then you'll be thought of as a cleaner/childminder and the list of duties will keep growing.

The most important thing of all is that you don't undersell yourself. These parents seem to have a lot of expectations but want to pay bargain basement prices.

marrakechheat

yellowcrayon wrote: »

250e is way too little, because when they say light housework, they mean you will be doing it everyday (even though they make it sound like its something you dont have to do; just something if you have a spare few minutes).

A 10 hour day is a long day, and 50e for that is a joke.. im sure the parents wouldnt work for 5e an hour.. and im sure you have mortgage/rent and bills to pay for too and this is too little money to do this; so the very minimum I would accept is 75e per day... thats only 375e a week so i dont think thats unreasonable to ask for.

And what January said is right, so maybe you should explain this to your employer.

Hope to hear how you get on after talking with the parents.. Best of luck

I will make sure to get a clear description of "light housework", however, the mother did say that shes not expecting me to iron or anything, even if it is as little as turning the washing machine on is fine for her. thanks for pointing the housework matter though, it is important.

i will bring up the car insurance matter as well. im still thinking of what to say without sounding greedy or ungrateful.

ill let u know how i get on yellowcrayon thank you very much for your input

marrakechheat

How Strange wrote: »

Op, your starting salary is very important not least because it dictates how the family will see you. If you accept too low wages you'll be seen as a skivvy and not as a qualified child minder. They'll expect you to do everything including the housework.

I'd be very wary about agreeing to do housework. It's reasonable to expect you to clean up after the children but not to change bed clothes, vacuum, iron etc. Again, if you initially agree to do these things then you'll be thought of as a cleaner/childminder and the list of duties will keep growing.

The most important thing of all is that you don't undersell yourself. These parents seem to have a lot of expectations but want to pay bargain basement prices.

How Strange, my tutor said the exact same thing, dont undersell myself. Ill make sure i can convey that message to them in a way. what you said about starting salary is spot on, so i think what i will do is let them know what i want for my starting salary and if they somehow agree to an amount other than 250euro/week, i will take it from there and discuss other requirements in details.

o yes i forgot to ask, what about holidays? do childminders get paid on school holidays? i did mention it briefly, the mother said oh yes we'll have to talk about that because we have to pay creches on holidays anyways.

yellowcrayon

marrakechheat wrote: »

o yes i forgot to ask, what about holidays? do childminders get paid on school holidays? i did mention it briefly, the mother said oh yes we'll have to talk about that because we have to pay creches on holidays anyways.

Most parents try not to pay childminders/nannies for holidays. What I would say is, if you have a day off sick, she doesnt have to pay you. But if she takes a day off work and decides she wants to spend it with the kids then you should be paid.
Bank holidays should always be paid for, whether you work them or not.

And try and agree on a few weeks, maybe 2, of holidays where you could take off time and still get your pay, or half pay.. we all need a break from work sure

marrakechheat

yellowcrayon wrote: »

Most parents try not to pay childminders/nannies for holidays. What I would say is, if you have a day off sick, she doesnt have to pay you. But if she takes a day off work and decides she wants to spend it with the kids then you should be paid.
Bank holidays should always be paid for, whether you work them or not.

And try and agree on a few weeks, maybe 2, of holidays where you could take off time and still get your pay, or half pay.. we all need a break from work sure

I have contacted the parents earlier and told them about the minimum wage, car insurance, etc. they said the most they can pay me is 300 euro/week. 6 euro/hr to mind 2 children, below minimum wage, i had to say no. i just dont see why i should be paid less than minimum wage, especially when i can meet her requirements to have own transportation, light housework, etc.

hopefully something else will come up. this can be a good learning experience if another childminding job comes along.

thank you for all your help, yellowcrayon really appreciate it.

yellowcrayon

No problem at all.. And fair play to you.. Since you were meeting all her requirements the least she could do is appreciate you enough to pay you whats needed.

Depending on where you are located, there are a few good websites on the internet for irish families looking for childminder. You probably already know them, but if not I can PM you them, as people advertise they are willling to pay mini wage or more for childminders.

How Strange

I'm sure you'll get something in the near future. It probably worked out for the best for you; you really don't want to get into a situation where you're underpaid and overworked. It seems they wanted the cheapest possible childcare arrangement.

I know childcare costs can be prohibitive but it still amazes me that parents would want to pay someone so little to look after their children. Do they really expect quality childcare if they pay peanuts?

Moonbeam

Have a look at childminding Ireland and it is worth joining , for insurance and networking.

marrakechheat

yellowcrayon wrote: »

No problem at all.. And fair play to you.. Since you were meeting all her requirements the least she could do is appreciate you enough to pay you whats needed.

Depending on where you are located, there are a few good websites on the internet for irish families looking for childminder. You probably already know them, but if not I can PM you them, as people advertise they are willling to pay mini wage or more for childminders.

Yes please yellowcrayon, may I have those websites just in case?
Thank you very much

marrakechheat

How Strange wrote: »

I'm sure you'll get something in the near future. It probably worked out for the best for you; you really don't want to get into a situation where you're underpaid and overworked. It seems they wanted the cheapest possible childcare arrangement.

I know childcare costs can be prohibitive but it still amazes me that parents would want to pay someone so little to look after their children. Do they really expect quality childcare if they pay peanuts?

Thank you How Strange, fingers crossed

marrakechheat

Moonbeam wrote: »

Have a look at childminding Ireland and it is worth joining , for insurance and networking.

I did have a brief look , will have a good read about it. Thank you

marrakechheat

oh by the way, the parents said they did not expect me to provide meals or activity equipments for the 300euro/week they offered me. they would be providing all that. they were alsow illing to cover the difference on car insurance premium due to change of purpose. still, i couldnt do it for that price. just want to give credit where credit is due.

ann0

the nerve of these people expecting you to mind kids for nxt to nothing.and they want u too cover the cost of food. and use your own petrol.basically they would cost you money to save there money.