The Great Irish Famine

Sound of Silence

Where To wrote: »

I blame the Catholic Church and the Irish obsession with land.

The famine would have happened even if the British or the potato had never been introduced to Ireland, too many people living on sh1t land, that's what caused the famine.

No it wouldn't have.

Certainly not to the same extent anyway.

[Edit] Having read your other posts, I'm assuming you don't have an extensive knowledge of how existing social and economic conditions perpetuated the effects of crop failure.

Where To

Shryke wrote: »

Ireland has excellent land mostly. It's why the British kept us down, for our produce. The population of Ireland was high because of the potato. It grew easily, even in Irelands worst parts. Everything about your post is wrong and I can't be bothered continuing to waste time explaining to you why.

Not in the areas where the famine had the most devastating effect it doesn't.

yuppies

You got to remember too that food shortages happened the whole time in the decades running up to the famine..in fact most summers people lived in constant hunger waiting for the new potato crop to be dug. We're judging those times by the excellent living standards of today.. the poor back then wouldn't have felt as aggrieved as we think to have been living under the conditions they did, regrettable as that may sound. That said, the famine was obviously much worse than anything that would have happened in the living memory of those who experienced it.

Sound of Silence

Pushtrak wrote: »

The point stands, though. So someone is a moron. Not a criminal offence.

Point taken.

Regardless, ignorance is dangerous.

Sound of Silence

I recall writing something about Britain's attitude toward Ireland during An Ghorta Mór.

One may argue that the British response to the crisis in Ireland was indicative of a pervading attitude of "prejudice based on ignorance" (Bartlett, T: pg 236) that had long festered among those who had occupied the upper echelons of Britain's political elite. Such unflattering views of Irish society had been principle and supreme in the British consciousness, growing ever more pronounced as the two nations grew increasingly further apart in the realms of political and religous belief. The letters of John Beresford and John Fitzgibbon, Earl of Clare, had confirmed and elaborated on these predjudices, declaring their deeply pessismistic views of Irish culture. John Fitzgibbon in particular had expressed his distaste for the Irish people, describing them as "unregenerate, savage [and] barbaric", and stressed his conviction of the futility of "[any] attempts to reform in an Irish context" (Bartlett, T: Pg 238). Deliberately disguised as private letters, these documents eventually found their way into the hands of the English elite, where they were circulated among the governing circles, and perhaps even those of the Aristocracy, including the King. When discussing Anglo-Irish relations, such attitudes provide a degree of insight into the fundamental catalytic forces wich governed British policy in Ireland, for in essence the Irish nation was considered not simply alien and barbaric, but ultimately menacing. With Union in it's infancy during An Ghorta Mór, and with continued challenges from an increasingly vocal Nationalist body, serious doubts arose over the sustainability of Union in Ireland. Even Lord Cornwallis, the instrumental force behind the union, had conceded in a speech to his political peers that "we have united ourselves to a people whom we ought to have destroyed" (Bartlett, T: Pg 240).

jimpump

OP deserves to get locked up for 2 nights and see how he does....fukin mug cnut

El Siglo

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I recall writing something about Britain's attitude toward Ireland during An Ghorta Mór.

One may argue that the British response to the crisis in Ireland was indicative of a pervading attitude of "prejudice based on ignorance" (Bartlett, T: pg 236) that had long festered among those who had occupied the upper echelons of Britain's political elite. Such unflattering views of Irish society had been principle and supreme in the British consciousness, growing ever more pronounced as the two nations grew increasingly further apart in the realms of political and religous belief. The letters of John Beresford and John Fitzgibbon, Earl of Clare, had confirmed and elaborated on these predjudices, declaring their deeply pessismistic views of Irish culture. John Fitzgibbon in particular had expressed his distaste for the Irish people, describing them as "unregenerate, savage [and] barbaric", and stressed his conviction of the futility of "[any] attempts to reform in an Irish context" (Bartlett, T: Pg 238). Deliberately disguised as private letters, these documents eventually found their way into the hands of the English elite, where they were circulated among the governing circles, and perhaps even those of the Aristocracy, including the King. When discussing Anglo-Irish relations, such attitudes provide a degree of insight into the fundamental catalytic forces wich governed British policy in Ireland, for in essence the Irish nation was considered not simply alien and barbaric, but ultimately menacing. With Union in it's infancy during An Ghorta Mór, and with continued challenges from an increasingly vocal Nationalist body, serious doubts arose over the sustainability of Union in Ireland. Even Lord Cornwallis, the instrumental force behind the union, had conceded in a speech to his political peers that "we have united ourselves to a people whom we ought to have destroyed" (Bartlett, T: Pg 240).

Ah Tom Bartlett, brilliant lecturer!

Sauve

jimpump wrote: »

OP deserves to get locked up for 2 nights and see how he does....fukin mug cnut

Kinda displaying the same level of ignorance yourself there jimpump....

goose2005

Where To wrote: »

I blame the Catholic Church and the Irish obsession with land.

The famine would have happened even if the British or the potato had never been introduced to Ireland, too many people living on sh1t land, that's what caused the famine.

The Catholic church had very little power in the 1840s.
All preindustrial societies are obsessed with land, because most of the population depend on it for living. And the reason that there were too many people living on sh1t land was the several preceding decades of economic mismanagement, forced subdivision of plots and religious discrimination.

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, while an important food source was hit hard - the biggest problem was managing it, and the export of alternative food sources to Britain. (Meat, fish, grains). Not to mention, Ireland was incredibly poor at the time and wholly unprepared for the disease that followed from malnurishment.

I don't think ireland exported much meat or fish at the time; nor was Ireland exceptionally poor compared to other countries. And no country was really prepared for epidemics in the 1840s.

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm always amazed at how cynical people can be about mass death, of which no doubt - many of your relatives died horrific deaths in. Stop trying to be 'that guy' and show a bit of respect.

Maybe. However, most of them survived - those who died/emigrated during the famine were overwhelmingly the lowest, landless classes - the ancestors of us modern Irish were the slightly better off people who survived it.

woodoo wrote: »

That is nonsense there was plenty of food generated during the famine. The only problem is it was exported.

True; however, it's a lie to say that only "de Brits" or Protestants with silly accents benefited from this export. Quite a few "real" Irish people wanted to sell their produce at a decent price rather than give it to the 19th century equivalent of "scumbags"/"knackers"/"scroungers" who shouldn't breed so much anyway.

Shryke wrote: »

Ireland has excellent land mostly. It's why the British kept us down, for our produce.

Who is "the British" here - all British people? All "Anglo-Irish"/Pale landowners/Protestants? Absentee landlords?

Who is "us"? My ancestors who were well-off farmers? My other ancestors who were desperately poor? Rich Dubliners/gentry? Those who depended on the export trade?

What does "kept us down" mean? Stopped industry developing? We had no coal and no iron. Stopped us being "free"? There were no democracies in the 1840s, not by modern standards.

KeithM89_old

jimpump wrote: »

OP deserves to get locked up for 2 nights and see how he does....fukin mug cnut

Goodbye jim.

Where To

yuppies wrote: »

You got to remember too that food shortages happened the whole time in the decades running up to the famine..in fact most summers people lived in constant hunger waiting for the new potato crop to be dug. We're judging those times by the excellent living standards of today.. the poor back then wouldn't have felt as aggrieved as we think to have been living under the conditions they did, regrettable as that may sound. That said, the famine was obviously much worse than anything that would have happened in the living memory of those who experienced it.

And occurred all over Europe also. I somehow doubt that the 'brits' and the spud were responsible for them all.

Sound of Silence

Where To wrote: »

And occurred all over Europe also. I somehow doubt that the 'brits' and the spud were responsible for them all.

The initial British response in October of 1845 can be reviewed and contrasted in the context of a wider European response. Belgium, having been the first nation in the European continent to report the emerging blight, had been quick to compensate for the loss of it's potato crop by implementing a policy of reduced taxation on imports. Whilst perhaps not entirely successful in curbing blight related mortality or illness, the policy was successful in preserving "thousands of lives which would otherwise have been lost" (O'Donnell, R: Pg 28). Similar efforts were made in numerous German States, a number of which took the precautionary action of significantly reducing food exports. Impressed by the swift response demonstrated by European Governments, a number of Irish Newspapers, including the Irish Times, published articles appraising the relative success of such policies in preventing a widespread food crisis (O'Donnell, R: pg 29). In spite of such praise, the British Government, spurred on by a prevailing Whig opposition, were adamant that similar policies would not be implemented in Ireland. British officials insisted that local markets should not be threatened by the introduction of foreign imports, nor should they make any degree of alteration to the export market in Ireland. In fact, during this time Ireland continued exporting potatos to subsidise dwindling stocks in the Netherlands, a region which had just begun to experience the blight (O'Donnell, R: pg 30).

Capt'n Midnight

Where To wrote: »

Famine was inevitable.

Amartya Sen “No famine has ever taken place in the history of the world in a functioning democracy.”

Usually, merchants begin hoarding food as a crisis develops — in conflicts, to keep it from being stolen, in famines, to get higher prices. Fred Cuny


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amartya_Sen

the Bengal famine of 1943, in which three million people perished. This staggering loss of life was unnecessary, Sen later concluded. He presents data that there was an adequate food supply in Bengal at the time, but particular groups of people including rural landless labourers and urban service providers like haircutters did not have the monetary means to acquire food as its price rose rapidly due to factors that include British military acquisition, panic buying, hoarding, and price gouging, all connected to the war in the region. In Poverty and Famines, Sen revealed that in many cases of famine, food supplies were not significantly reduced. In Bengal, for example, food production, while down on the previous year, was higher than in previous non-famine years. Thus, Sen points to a number of social and economic factors, such as declining wages, unemployment, rising food prices, and poor food-distribution systems. These issues led to starvation among certain groups in society.

Sound of Silence

El Siglo wrote: »

Ah Tom Bartlett, brilliant lecturer!

I would've loved to have had him as a lecturer! :rolleyes:

I'll make do with his books for now!

TeddyTedson

Sauve wrote: »

Just have a small ounce of respect for your ancestors (presuming you're Irish here) that died in this genocide. That's all.

I absolutely have respect. But I'll still joke about what ever I want to.
Anyway, that joke is more about taking the piss out of the ignorance of some people than the actual people that died in the famine if you look at the context of it.

Fenian Army

goose2005 wrote: »

I don't think ireland exported much meat or fish at the time; nor was Ireland exceptionally poor compared to other countries. And no country was really prepared for epidemics in the 1840s.

Quite a lot of meat was exported. The Irish were swept off the best land so it could be used, among other things, as places to graze cattle.

dpaulod

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/irish.pdf

Sauve

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Just a bit of humor from Alan Partridge.

But don't be so high and mighty about it yourself, it's not as if any of us know any of the people who died. Yes it was tragic, but of course we can joke about it. Stop being so controlling.

This is the post I was referring to, not your 'joke'.

Shryke

Where To wrote: »

Not in the areas where the famine had the most devastating effect it doesn't.

The people in the areas with poorer land were more reliant on the potato crop. The crop failed and they had little else. You said you believed the famine would have happened without the potato. The population was high because of the potato. Do you see the flaw in what you said?
The famine hit the west the worst. I'm from the west. Our land isn't that bad over all and potatoes weren't the only thing around to eat. That's where the British came in.
Ireland is an agricultural state. We don't have any deserts. The coutry is farm land top to bottom. I really don't think you know what you're saying. And I'm from a farming background, I don't know about you.
People died looking like skeletons with grass in their mouths and it was a genocide by the British.

"In Ireland Before and After the Famine Cormac O’Grada documents that in 1845, a famine year in Ireland, 3,251,907 quarters (8 bushels = 1 quarter)) of corn were exported from Ireland to Britain. That same year 257,257 sheep were exported to Britain. In 1846, another famine year, 480,827 swine and 186,483 oxen were exported to Britain."

"Cecil Woodham-Smith, considered the preeminent authority on the Irish Famine, wrote in The Great Hunger; Ireland 1845-1849 that, "...no issue has provoked so much anger or so embittered relations between the two countries (England and Ireland) as the indisputable fact that huge quantities of food were exported from Ireland to England throughout the period when the people of Ireland were dying of starvation."

"...a ship sailing into an Irish port during the famine years with a cargo of grain was "sure to meet six ships sailing out with a similar cargo."

A quick google found that info, all of which I've heard before before from different sources. Here's the link and feel free to check references and do your own homework.
http://www.usbornefamilytree.com/irishfoodexports.htm

Duckworth_Luas

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Anyway, that joke is more about taking the piss out of the ignorance of some people than the actual people that died in the famine if you look at the context of it.

Steve Coogan, whose parents are Irish, went to great lengths to make this clear in the audio-commentary of I'm Alan Partridge.

golden lane

if two million irish people survived....why didn't they share their food with the others..??????

Fenian Army

golden lane wrote: »

if two million irish people survived....why didn't they share their food with the others..??????

Are you taking the piss?

TeddyTedson

Sauve wrote: »

This is the post I was referring to, not your 'joke'.

What?

Corruptedmorals

Exports peaked in 1847, the worst year of the famine. My lecturer stopped short of calling it a genocide and called it criminal negligence on a massive scale instead. A good read to really get an understanding of how awful it was is Cathal Ó Poirtéir's 'Famine Echoes'. It has oral history accounts generally from people who were born shortly after the famine, from all over the country. Though arguably the most harrowing read is the British Parliamentary reports, Hansard. Plenty of instances where real on-the-ground reports of how bad the situation was in Ireland getting totally shot down and dismissed as made-up nonsense..

The Chinese and Russian famines had of course much higher death tolls. How is that a valid argument though when you consider that the highest proportion of famine deaths occurred in Ireland's famine. And both of those were caused by huge political upheaval, and most other famines are caused by drought or war. Ireland's remains fairly unique in that it took place in a politically stable country which was under the auspices of Britain and was producing if not enough then almost enough food to feed the whole population. Britain spent five times more on the Crimean war than they ever did on famine relief.

TeddyTedson

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Steve Coogan, whose parents are Irish, went to great lengths to make this clear in the audio-commentary of I'm Alan Partridge.

I wouldn't mind hearing that actually! I must bye the DVDs.
I wonder was their an outcry at the time.
People really jumped the gun there when I said it so I can only imagine what was said at the time.
People love the prospect of being offended by something it seems.

podgemonster

"O God, that bread should be so dear and human flesh so cheap"

-Abbey Graveyard Skibbereen where 8000 coffin less bodies lie.

golden lane

Fenian Army wrote: »

Are you taking the piss?

of course not......that is a relevant question.....maybe somebody knows about transport etc.....

i was a hungry kid in dublin.....so i know people can survive quite adequately on less........

Sauve

TeddyTedson wrote: »

What?

This -

TeddyTedson wrote: »

But don't be so high and mighty about it yourself, it's not as if any of us know any of the people who died. Yes it was tragic, but of course we can joke about it. Stop being so controlling.

Doesn't matter at all now - the moment has long passed.

Wild Bill

Pushtrak wrote: »

I doubt Famine denial is all that common. But regardless of this,the idea of denying something being a crime is preposterous. And at what point is it a crime? For not knowing everything about the history? For not knowing certain aspects? And what ought the punishment for such an "offence" be?

Actually I agree that criminalizing the Holocaust is daft.

But reading the famine/genocide deniers here I can see why many European countries have succumbed to the temptation.

Which is not to justify criminalizing opinions, be they Nazi, insane or whatever.

Wild Bill

golden lane wrote: »

i was a hungry kid in dublin.....so i know people can survive quite adequately on less........

TeddyTedson

Sauve wrote: »

This -


Doesn't matter at all now - the moment has long passed.

I'm honestly lost in all of this.
Lets agree to disagree then:p

Where To

Shryke wrote: »

The people in the areas with poorer land were more reliant on the potato crop. The crop failed and they had little else. You said you believed the famine would have happened without the potato. The population was high because of the potato. Do you see the flaw in what you said?
The famine hit the west the worst. I'm from the west. Our land isn't that bad over all and potatoes weren't the only thing around to eat. That's where the British came in.
Ireland is an agricultural state. We don't have any deserts. The coutry is farm land top to bottom. I really don't think you know what you're saying. And I'm from a farming background, I don't know about you.
People died looking like skeletons with grass in their mouths and it was a genocide by the British.

"In Ireland Before and After the Famine Cormac O’Grada documents that in 1845, a famine year in Ireland, 3,251,907 quarters (8 bushels = 1 quarter)) of corn were exported from Ireland to Britain. That same year 257,257 sheep were exported to Britain. In 1846, another famine year, 480,827 swine and 186,483 oxen were exported to Britain."

"Cecil Woodham-Smith, considered the preeminent authority on the Irish Famine, wrote in The Great Hunger; Ireland 1845-1849 that, "...no issue has provoked so much anger or so embittered relations between the two countries (England and Ireland) as the indisputable fact that huge quantities of food were exported from Ireland to England throughout the period when the people of Ireland were dying of starvation."

"...a ship sailing into an Irish port during the famine years with a cargo of grain was "sure to meet six ships sailing out with a similar cargo."

A quick google found that info, all of which I've heard before before from different sources. Here's the link and feel free to check references and do your own homework.
http://www.usbornefamilytree.com/irishfoodexports.htm

I'm from a farming background too. Even with modern farming methods the land all along the west coast isn't all that great today, as I'm sure someone from west Donegal, Connemara or wes Clare would agree. If there had been no potato, then the next most easily grown and cheap-to-produce crop would have been the staple diet, and the population would have grown. When that crop would fail, whether due to climate or disease or both, what would you have?

golden lane

Wild Bill wrote: »

ok...we only got a spoonful each of caviar..........

our dinner for four days every week, was usually bread and a mug of oxo..........

friday was chips.....saturday was a fry up.....sunday usually was.....

cabbage potatoes and trotters/ or backbone/ or knuckles/ or pigs tails/...

a special treat was a cows heart........and a very special treat was......custard and jelly (often got from the back of birds factory in golden lane )..yum yum..

Sauve

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm honestly lost in all of this.
Lets agree to disagree then:p

So am I to be honest!
It all happened so long, like an hour ago.
Short term memory is totally shot...

Where To

Sound of Silence wrote: »

The initial British response in October of 1845 can be reviewed and contrasted in the context of a wider European response. Belgium, having been the first nation in the European continent to report the emerging blight, had been quick to compensate for the loss of it's potato crop by implementing a policy of reduced taxation on imports. Whilst perhaps not entirely successful in curbing blight related mortality or illness, the policy was successful in preserving "thousands of lives which would otherwise have been lost" (O'Donnell, R: Pg 28). Similar efforts were made in numerous German States, a number of which took the precautionary action of significantly reducing food exports. Impressed by the swift response demonstrated by European Governments, a number of Irish Newspapers, including the Irish Times, published articles appraising the relative success of such policies in preventing a widespread food crisis (O'Donnell, R: pg 29). In spite of such praise, the British Government, spurred on by a prevailing Whig opposition, were adamant that similar policies would not be implemented in Ireland. British officials insisted that local markets should not be threatened by the introduction of foreign imports, nor should they make any degree of alteration to the export market in Ireland. In fact, during this time Ireland continued exporting potatos to subsidise dwindling stocks in the Netherlands, a region which had just begun to experience the blight (O'Donnell, R: pg 30).

The Finnish famine of 1866-68 had as high or a higher mortality rate the Irish famine, it was an autonomous state at the time.

Nodin

Where To wrote: »

The Finnish famine of 1866-68 had as high or a higher mortality rate the Irish famine, it was an autonomous state at the time.

....your point being what?

laoch na mona

to be fair exporting food and evictions made it worse then it had to be

Wild Bill

Where To wrote: »

The Finnish famine of 1866-68 had as high or a higher mortality rate the Irish famine, it was an autonomous state at the time.

Were they exporting enough food to avoid any hunger while their people starved?

If not - the comparison is irrelevant.

Actually it's irrelevant anyway,

whirlpool

People who don't recognise facetiousness or intended sarcasm, who take people's posts at face value, get offended and write angry responses.

Wild Bill

golden lane wrote: »

ok...we only got a spoonful each of caviar..........

our dinner for four days every week, was usually bread and a mug of oxo..........

friday was chips.....saturday was a fry up.....sunday usually was.....

cabbage potatoes and trotters/ or backbone/ or knuckles/ or pigs tails/...

a special treat was a cows heart........and a very special treat was......custard and jelly (often got from the back of birds factory in golden lane )..yum yum..

OK. So you aren't actually serious.

I suspected as much.

whirlpool

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was the "What type of person annoys you the most?" thread. Carry on.

Corruptedmorals

How is your childhood diet relevant? Those who survived the famine were either lucky, managed to escape disease (disease was really the major killer, not outright starvation), or those who had the means to buy other foods. Some people, such as the Quakers, were appalled at the conditions and set up soup-kitchens. Others, some select Protestants, offerred food in return for conversion to the Protestant faith. This was called 'Souperism' and was particularly rife in one of the worst affected areas, West Cork. My own relatives marriage 40 odd years ago was frowned upon by the bride's mother because his family were soupers! Those who 'turned' were despised after the famine.

It wasn't a case of not having meat and two veg dinner. They had nothing. Thousands died along the roadsides with grass-stained mouths.

Battered Mars Bar

Hard to believe all that happened here all the same. If there was 8,000,000 living on this island you'd think there would be more old ruins of their houses. Were they sleeping under the stars or what or was there 50 people to a house?

true

im invisible wrote: »

remember Sinead o'connor years ago saying 'there was no famine' and people saying she was mad.

She meant it was greatly exagerated for propoganda / political purposes. Make no mistake about it, there was a famine in certain areas.

Where To wrote: »

I blame the Catholic Church and the Irish obsession with land.

The famine would have happened even if the British or the potato had never been introduced to Ireland, too many people living on sh1t land, that's what caused the famine.

If 2 adults live in a big field and have 8 children, there are 10 mouths to feed. If each of those children has 8 children, before long there are 64 mouths to feed in the field..... Like in Africa, sometimes problems occur where there is absurd population growth and lack of education. China has boomed over the past few decades - its still growing its economy at 10% a year - and there for the past few decades only one child is allowed per couple there.

Before the potato was introduced to Ireland...wonder what people mostly lived on

Wild Bill

whirlpool wrote: »

People who don't recognise facetiousness or intended sarcasm, who take people's posts at face value, get offended and write angry responses.

Yeah, tricky.

Because some of the genuine deniers are beyond parody - and the sarcasm of the sentient can be indistinguishable from what it seeks to ridicule.


More use of the emoticons is required :cool:

Wild Bill

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Hard to believe all that happened here all the same. If there was 8,000,000 living on this island you'd think there would be more old ruins of their houses. Were they sleeping under the stars or what or was there 50 people to a house?

Speak of the Devil and he appears! :eek:

whirlpool

Wild Bill wrote: »

Yeah, tricky.

Because some of the genuine deniers are beyond parody - and the sarcasm of the sentient can be indistinguishable from what it seeks to ridicule.


More use of the emoticons is required :cool:

It's AH. I think as a general rule, one can safely assume that roughly 50% of the comments are sarcasm, and take it from there.

:pac:

golden lane

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

How is your childhood diet relevant? Those who survived the famine were either lucky, managed to escape disease (disease was really the major killer, not outright starvation), or those who had the means to buy other foods. Some people, such as the Quakers, were appalled at the conditions and set up soup-kitchens. Others, some select Protestants, offerred food in return for conversion to the Protestant faith. This was called 'Souperism' and was particularly rife in one of the worst affected areas, West Cork. My own relatives marriage 40 odd years ago was frowned upon by the bride's mother because his family were soupers! Those who 'turned' were despised after the famine.

It wasn't a case of not having meat and two veg dinner. They had nothing. Thousands died along the roadsides with grass-stained mouths.

thank you....i am well aware of that...and i don't blame your relatives.....

i was just trying to see how the ordinary people helped each other...

of coure my diet was adequate..i am nearly seventy now.....

history alway give the overall picture..not the details......as i believe one side of my family is from offaly and the other from dublin....would they have completely different outlooks re the famine.......

the government was guilty by complacency........it was not an intended genocide........but dying was sometimes convenient to their plans......

Ostrom

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

Hard to believe all that happened here all the same. If there was 8,000,000 living on this island you'd think there would be more old ruins of their houses. Were they sleeping under the stars or what or was there 50 people to a house?

During the famine clearances, enclosures and later commissioned public works, many house walls were used for construction materials, although many abandoned clachans are still visible in more remote areas.

Sound of Silence

Where To wrote: »

The Finnish famine of 1866-68 had as high or a higher mortality rate the Irish famine, it was an autonomous state at the time.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is. The Finnish famine was perpetuated by environmental factors - Freezing conditions and an extremely wet Summer. Both of which were entirely beyond the control of the Government and which affected almost all staple foods - not just potatoes.

The Finnish Government did not have the means to cope with such a blight. The British Government did, but chose not to.