Dublin Marathon 2012 - 'Improvers' thread

RayCun

I notice people are starting to pick their training plans for this year's marathon, so...

This thread is for 'improvers' - people who have already run one, two, three... marathons. They're ready to move beyond a novices training plan, but aren't quite 'seasoned' runners yet. (there might be a thread for them in a while)

If you're a novice marathon runner, this is the thread for you

Younganne

RayCun wrote: »

I notice people are starting to pick their training plans for this year's marathon, so...

This thread is for 'improvers' - people who have already run one, two, three... marathons. They're ready to move beyond a novices training plan, but aren't quite 'seasoned' runners yet. (there might be a thread for them in a while)

If you're a novice marathon runner, this is the thread for you

Thanks Ray....the time is ticking down nicely...:eek:

run44

Thanks Ray!

sunflowerRo

Deadly. Just what I needed!

red face dave

Good man Ray. Looking for a big improvement on last year.

Nules10

Oh No... Can I still be an improver even though I am not doing DCM 12

red face dave

Nules you can be a honorary member

Nules10

red face dave wrote: »

Nules you can be a honorary member

thanks Dave

sunflowerRo

Nules10 wrote: »

Oh No... Can I still be an improver even though I am not doing DCM 12

I suppose we can take a vote and see what the general consensus is. I can't make any promises at this stage though.

Younganne

You could always do Dingle on 1st Sept - 16 week program could start today:D

doledude86

Ah this is great Ray think ill fall into this category, this will be my second marathon and i'm going with Hal Hingdon Intermediate 1or2 (not sure yet) aiming for 3:40. Whats everyone elses hopes for the 2012 summer of running :D:D

Younganne

doledude86 wrote: »

Ah this is great Ray think ill fall into this category, this will be my second marathon and i'm going with Hal Hingdon Intermediate 1or2 (not sure yet) aiming for 3:40. Whats everyone elses hopes for the 2012 summer of running :D:D

How does 3.40 fit in with your last marathon time, have you been running since or just getting back into it......

For my 3rd Marathon I would love a sub 4, but coming from DCM 2010 - 4.41 to DCM 2011 - 4.27, I don't know if it will be achievable so 4.10/4.15 might be secondary aim..... at the minute, but it will all depend on how training goes.:rolleyes:

I'm at this stage hoping to do P&D(18 week up to 55m), but the only issue is that there are some longish runs in the middle of the week, so if i can fit them in then thats the plan!!

MMcK40

Cheers Ray - just the thread I need - did DCM last year in 3:57 and Belfast last week in 3:37 - don't think hoping for a further 20 min improvement is realistic in DCM 2012 but sub 3:30 would be nice - was looking at the Hal Higdon plans - used MyAsics for last two but they are a bit generic...

sunflowerRo

I'm undecided between HH Advanced 1 (dropping the monday run for cross training) and P&D. The P&D kind of scares me though. There's a bit too much mid-week running for me.

RedRunner

Great stuff..this thread's probably better for me than novice thread having done the DCM last year. Did 4:45 last year with a lot of walking in last 6 miles. Is 4hrs or less too ambitious this year? Was thinking of HalHigdon intermediate1 plan but would I be better opting for novice 2.

I'm pretty sure I can stick to the plan but if I'm not being realistic here I'm happy to take advice from those more experienced than I?

Nules10

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I suppose we can take a vote and see what the general consensus is. I can't make any promises at this stage though.

well i better get your vote missy

Nules10

Younganne wrote: »

You could always do Dingle on 1st Sept - 16 week program could start today:D

Is it flat :D

run44

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I'm undecided between HH Advanced 1 (dropping the monday run for cross training) and P&D. The P&D kind of scares me though. There's a bit too much mid-week running for me.

Yeah, its pretty intense alright. I'm having doubts about P&D myself. Not sure if this is the year to try it when I have a lot of work stuff on...

menoscemo

run44 wrote: »

Yeah, its pretty intense alright. I'm having doubts about P&D myself. Not sure if this is the year to try it when I have a lot of work stuff on...

Having done P&D and HH Novice 1, I actually think P&D is an easier plan.
The reason being is that P&D teaches you to do the majority of your runs very slowly, with only some of your runs at Half Marathon Pace and parts of some of your long runs at Marathon pace. As a novice I did most of my long runs at Marathon pace and nearly all my short runs at faster than that pace. I don't think I enjoyed too many of those runs...

Yes the lingo can be a bit initmidating at first, but what he they are actually telling you is to slow down and learn to enjoy your runs. When I learned to run at a proper recovery pace (by using the HR zone P&D prescribed) I started to really fall in love with running. I still really enjoy my easy and recovery runs to this day

beeduybe

Just beginning to turn my attention to DCM too. It will be my second marathon after Dublin last year. My main priority was getting to the finish line but looking back I probably ran it too conservatively as I had a big fear of blowing up and came in in a time of 4:10 but have much higher ambitions for this year.

Have never really followed a training plan as such before but P&D seems highly recommended around these parts. The biggest stumbling block here would appear to be fitting in the midweek long runs. Would it be acceptable to do 8-10 mile runs instead of the 12 and 14 mentioned in the plan? Or are the benefits of the extra miles one of the reasons for its success?

sunflowerRo

menoscemo wrote: »

run44 wrote: »

Yeah, its pretty intense alright. I'm having doubts about P&D myself. Not sure if this is the year to try it when I have a lot of work stuff on...

As a novice I did most of my long runs at Marathon pace and nearly all my short runs at faster than that pace. I don't think I enjoyed too many of those runs...:D

It's funny you should say that meno. I'm convinced I have to run at sub 9 min miles for every single run I do. I did my first real 'recovery' run on mon at around 10 min mile and I actually loved it. But I felt I was going that slow that everyone was staring at me wondering why I was crawling

menoscemo

sunflowerRo wrote: »

It's funny you should say that meno. I'm convinced I have to run at sub 9 min miles for every single run I do. I did my first real 'recovery' run on mon at around 10 min mile and I actually loved it. But I felt I was going that slow that everyone was staring at me wondering why I was crawling

Yeah, you feel a bit like that at the start alright but just tell yourself you could blitz them if you had to

sunflowerRo

menoscemo wrote: »

sunflowerRo wrote: »

It's funny you should say that meno. I'm convinced I have to run at sub 9 min miles for every single run I do. I did my first real 'recovery' run on mon at around 10 min mile and I actually loved it. But I felt I was going that slow that everyone was staring at me wondering why I was crawling

Yeah, you feel a bit like that at the start alright but just tell yourself you could blitz them if you had to

I might get a sign or something for those days..... 'recovery run in progress' just so everyone's clear

menoscemo

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I might get a sign or something for those days..... 'recovery run in progress' just so everyone's clear

You could always just shout at them as they go past you.
'Hey! I'm only doing a recovery run alright! Normally I'd be much faster' :cool:

Degsy123

Sorry for the silly question but what is the P&D plan ?. Hoping to follow Hal higdon intermediate 1 or 2 for this year.

sunflowerRo

Degsy123 wrote: »

Sorry for the silly question but what is the P&D plan ?. Hoping to follow Hal higdon intermediate 1 or 2 for this year.

Hi Degsy, p&d is in a book called advanced marathoning. Plans start at those prepared to run 55miles per week and move upwards then. I don't know if you can get the plan on the net but someone else here might know?

Mr abbey

Hi guys, planning on doing HH Novice 1 again this year after my first DCM last year. Just wondering how people feel about road v grass etc for runs and how many people actually get to run the recommended half of their runs on soft surfaces?
Will be a bit more pushed for time this year with other commitments and will probably be forced to do most of my running early or late on the roads, which are mostly tarmac in the area. Maybe getting some midweek runs in in the park, or on the treadmill.
Will be looking forward to keeping up with this thread and novice again this year for inspiration and advice.
Cheers!

Younganne

sunflowerRo wrote: »

But I felt I was going that slow that everyone was staring at me wondering why I was crawling

I though i was the only one thinking that about my "recover" & LSR runs at first:o

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah, you feel a bit like that at the start alright but just tell yourself you could blitz them if you had to

I like that idea Memo, but I was told once that its none of my business what anyone else thinks about me...so now i just don't think

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I might get a sign or something for those days..... 'recovery run in progress' just so everyone's clear

New Business venture:D

Younganne

Mr abbey wrote: »

Hi guys, planning on doing HH Novice 1 again this year after my first DCM last year. Just wondering how people feel about road v grass etc for runs and how many people actually get to run the recommended half of their runs on soft surfaces?
Will be a bit more pushed for time this year with other commitments and will probably be forced to do most of my running early or late on the roads, which are mostly tarmac in the area. Maybe getting some midweek runs in in the park, or on the treadmill.
Will be looking forward to keeping up with this thread and novice again this year for inspiration and advice.
Cheers!

Currenty i do the midweek runs in the park and try to use the trails if they are not flooded (no point in getting my lovely runners all dirty;))
I always do the LSR on the road so that the legs get accustomed to the surface over the longer period....

Younganne

Degsy123 wrote: »

Sorry for the silly question but what is the P&D plan ?. Hoping to follow Hal higdon intermediate 1 or 2 for this year.

Mods - is it ok to post this here...if not i'll remove it!

Here is the first cycle - Mesocycle 1 - Endurance
Weeks to Goal|17|16|15|14|13|12 (Recovery)
|25th June|2nd July|9th July|16th July|23rd July |30th July
Monday|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training
Tuesday|Lactate Threshold: 8m (13km)) w/ 4m(6km) @ 15k to 1/2 Mara race pace|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/10 x 100m strides|General Aerobic 10m (16km)|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/ 10 x 100m strides|Lactate Threshold: 9m (14km)) w/ 5m(8km) @ 15k to 1/2 Mara race pace|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/ 10 x 100m strides
Wednesday|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Recovery 4m (6km)|Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 5m (8km)Thursday|General Aerobic 9m (14km)| General Aerobic 10m(16km)|Lactate Threshold: 8m (13km)) w/ 4m(6km) @ 15k to HM race pace| General Aerobic 10m(16km) |General Aerobic 10m(16km) |General Aerobic 8m(13km)
Friday |Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|
Saturday|Recovery 4m (6km) |Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 4m (6km) |Recovery 4m (6km)| Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 4m (6km)|
Sunday|Medium-Long Run 12m (19km)|Marathon Pace Run 13m (21km) w/ 8m (13km) @ marathon Race Pace|Medium-Long Run 14m (23km)|Medium-Long Run 15m (24km)|Marathon Pace Run 16m (26km) w/ 10m (16km) @ marathon Race Pace|Medium-Long Run 12m (19km)|
Weekly Volume|33m/53km |36m/58km| 40m/64km |42m/67km |45m/72km |37m/59km

menoscemo

Younganne wrote: »

I like that idea Memo, but I was told once that its none of my business what anyone else thinks about me...so now i just don't think

I was only messing of course. In truth no-one really cares about how fast you are running on a saturday morning in the park.

That said you learn to take some satisfaction from the fact that you are doing it right and that your times are improving. I have often recognised guys charging past me in training runs and LSR's panting and puffing, because I remember passing them in races.
I'd be lying if I didn't get a tiny sense of smug satisfaction from that