Dublin Marathon 2012 - 'Improvers' thread

Younganne

menoscemo wrote: »

I was only messing of course. In truth no-one really cares about how fast you are running on a saturday morning in the park.

That said you learn to take some satisfaction from the fact that you are doing it right and that your times are improving. I have often recognised guys charging past me in training runs and LSR's panting and puffing, because I remember passing them in races.
I'd be lying if I didn't get a tiny sense of smug satisfaction from that

im with you on that, but at the begininning i use to think that people were looking as how slow i was going...now it doesn't matter and i don't think about anyone elses pace.

I get even more satisfaction when someone passes you in a race, and then i pass them back out in the last 100m:D:D

RayCun

<mod>
re. the P&D plan. I think it's okay to post up a sample like that, but if you posted the entire training plan we could have problems
</mod>

Younganne

RayCun wrote: »

<mod>
re. the P&D plan. I think it's okay to post up a sample like that, but if you posted the entire training plan we could have problems
</mod>

Thanks Ray, wasn't sure...

Emer911

I guess I'll join the party.
I've signed up for DCM 2012. I haven't ran this before but did Chicago in scorching temps last October and Berlin in the pi$$ing rain the previous year.
Here's hoping for something in between in Dublin

Target - breaking the 4 hour mark. Should have hit that in Chicago but the weather (Sun and Heat) knocked me for six and I struggled/ dragged myself home in 4:24 Completely blew up from mile 17.

Don't have my plan in place yet. Toying with the P&D 55 plan or a modified HH Intermediate 2/ Advance 1. All suggestions and recommendations welcome.

kit3

I'm going to hop in here as well. Did DCM last year slowly (4.59) and followed the HH Novice plan. In hindsight I probably could have done more in that I managed the training fine but I was unsure how the legs would hold up to the distance since it was my first. No regrets, however - I had a blast and thoroughly enjoyed my first marathon. Thinking of following the HH Intermediate 2 this time and starting a few weeks early as I have a few things on during the summer that could interfere a bit. Did buy the P&D book but think I might save that for no. 3 :rolleyes:

beeduybe

Younganne wrote: »

Mods - is it ok to post this here...if not i'll remove it!

Here is the first cycle - Mesocycle 1 - Endurance
Weeks to Goal|17|16|15|14|13|12 (Recovery)
|25th June|2nd July|9th July|16th July|23rd July |30th July
Monday|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training
Tuesday|Lactate Threshold: 8m (13km)) w/ 4m(6km) @ 15k to 1/2 Mara race pace|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/10 x 100m strides|General Aerobic 10m (16km)|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/ 10 x 100m strides|Lactate Threshold: 9m (14km)) w/ 5m(8km) @ 15k to 1/2 Mara race pace|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/ 10 x 100m strides
Wednesday|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Recovery 4m (6km)|Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 5m (8km)Thursday|General Aerobic 9m (14km)| General Aerobic 10m(16km)|Lactate Threshold: 8m (13km)) w/ 4m(6km) @ 15k to HM race pace| General Aerobic 10m(16km) |General Aerobic 10m(16km) |General Aerobic 8m(13km)
Friday |Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|
Saturday|Recovery 4m (6km) |Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 4m (6km) |Recovery 4m (6km)| Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 4m (6km)|
Sunday|Medium-Long Run 12m (19km)|Marathon Pace Run 13m (21km) w/ 8m (13km) @ marathon Race Pace|Medium-Long Run 14m (23km)|Medium-Long Run 15m (24km)|Marathon Pace Run 16m (26km) w/ 10m (16km) @ marathon Race Pace|Medium-Long Run 12m (19km)|
Weekly Volume|33m/53km |36m/58km| 40m/64km |42m/67km |45m/72km |37m/59km

Did you leave some runs out? For example week 1 should total 33 miles but only adds up to 24?

RayCun

beeduybe wrote: »

Did you leave some runs out? For example week 1 should total 33 miles but only adds up to 24?

The Pfitziger plans are weird like that, he only lists the main runs in the week. The rest you make up with easy runs whenever you like.

red face dave

Ray which plan would you recommend for the best assault at at the 3.59.

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

The Pfitziger plans are weird like that, he only lists the main runs in the week. The rest you make up with easy runs whenever you like.

Actually the real problem is that Thursday is missing from Anne's week above In week 1 there should be a 9 mile General Aerobic run on thursday

Younganne

menoscemo wrote: »

Actually the real problem is that Thursday is missing from Anne's week above In week 1 there should be a 9 mile General Aerobic run on thursday

Ye that was a test to see if anyone was paying attention:eek::eek:

| 17|16|15|14|13|12(Recovery)
Thursday| General Aerobic 9m/14km|General Aerobic 10m/16km| Lactate threshold 8m/13km wit 4m/6km @ 15k - HMP| GA 10m/16| GA 10m/16km| GA 8m/13KM

Barry i didn't make Meath running group again tonight. 2 of the kids have Scarlet Fever so they are housebound and not liking it!!

RayCun

menoscemo wrote: »

Actually the real problem is that Thursday is missing from Anne's week above In week 1 there should be a 9 mile General Aerobic run on thursday

:pac::pac::pac::pac::o


Dave, I've only followed 2 plans, the Higdon Novice and P&D <55 and come to think of it I didn't even follow P&D properly, I just used it for the progression of long runs. But I did think it was good.

Younganne

Here is the first cycle - Mesocycle 1 - Endurance
Weeks to Goal|17|16|15|14|13|12 (Recovery)
|25th June|2nd July|9th July|16th July|23rd July |30th July
Monday|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training
Tuesday|Lactate Threshold: 8m (13km)) w/ 4m(6km) @ 15k to 1/2 Mara race pace|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/10 x 100m strides|General Aerobic 10m (16km)|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/ 10 x 100m strides|Lactate Threshold: 9m (14km)) w/ 5m(8km) @ 15k to 1/2 Mara race pace|General Aerobic + Speed 8m(13km) w/ 10 x 100m strides
Wednesday|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Recovery 4m (6km)|Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 5m (8km)
Thursday|General Aerobic 9m (14km)| General Aerobic 10m(16km)|Lactate Threshold: 8m (13km)) w/ 4m(6km) @ 15k to HM race pace| General Aerobic 10m(16km) |General Aerobic 10m(16km) |General Aerobic 8m(13km)
Friday |Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|Rest or cross- training|
Saturday|Recovery 4m (6km) |Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 4m (6km) |Recovery 4m (6km)| Recovery 5m (8km)|Recovery 4m (6km)|
Sunday|Medium-Long Run 12m (19km)|Marathon Pace Run 13m (21km) w/ 8m (13km) @ marathon Race Pace|Medium-Long Run 14m (23km)|Medium-Long Run 15m (24km)|Marathon Pace Run 16m (26km) w/ 10m (16km) @ marathon Race Pace|Medium-Long Run 12m (19km)|
Weekly Volume|33m/53km |36m/58km| 40m/64km |42m/67km |45m/72km |37m/59km

sunflowerRo

Younganne wrote: »

Barry i didn't make Meath running group again tonight. 2 of the kids have Scarlet Fever so they are housebound and not liking it!!

Oh no Anne. You're not serious. The poor mites, and poor you
Thanks for posting up the PandD plan. Very good of you

Younganne

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Oh no Anne. You're not serious. The poor mites, and poor you
Thanks for posting up the PandD plan. Very good of you

It will make the running all the more necessary/enjoyable when i can get back to it at the weekend....;)

RacoonQueen

RayCun wrote: »

<mod>
re. the P&D plan. I think it's okay to post up a sample like that, but if you posted the entire training plan we could have problems
</mod>

There may be ways to find the p&d plan as published by other websites on the internet.

For example, you may find an 18 week version of their 55 mile week plan HERE

and their 70 mile week plan, might be found HERE


Just sayin'

PaulieC

Signed up for the DCM (and 10k/10mile) last week. Finished last year in 3.59.48, aiming for 3.30 this year. I was just looking at the Hal Higdon plans there - I will do either the Novice2 or Intermediate1. The club also mentioned that they have a plan starting in June, but I think I will need to start a bit earlier because of holidays and specific weekends in September that I will not be able to run.

Look forward to nagging Ray again this year with silly questions

Micilin Muc

RacoonQueen wrote: »

There may be ways to find the p&d plan as published by other websites on the internet.

For example, you may find an 18 week version of their 55 mile week plan HERE

and their 70 mile week plan, might be found HERE


Just sayin'

The 70-mile linked to above is slightly different to the book. Also, it's a pity the link doesn't give any info on session type (recovery, general aerobic etc as explained in book).

RacoonQueen

Micilin Muc wrote: »

The 70-mile linked to above is slightly different to the book. Also, it's a pity the link doesn't give any info on session type (recovery, general aerobic etc as explained in book).

They're the ones from the first edition of the book I think. Road to Boston site that those plans came from was taken down a few years ago.

Red Belly

DCM 2012 will be my 3rd after a 4:28:04 in 2010 and an injury ravaged Cork 2011 in 5:57:28.

I've been following the FIRST (from the 'Runners World Run Less Run Faster' book) training plans since recovering from the injury I picked up/exacerbated in Cork last Summer. I completed the 10k plan and brought my PB down to 47:30 from 49:00 in February. I'm currently approaching the end of the half marathon plan aiming for a half in June but I set a new PB in a half marathon a few weeks ago of 1:53:08.

I'm hoping to get that down to around 1:49 at the end of June then a two week rest period before hitting the 16-week marathon plan. The FIRST equivalent time charts suggest I'm on track for a sub 4 (based on both my 10k and half marathon times this year). I find the training paces challenging and sometimes I go with how I feel on the long runs and just try to get as close as possible without over-tiring myself. The program requires 2 cross training workouts and 3 runs per week and at the moment work/family commitments mean I'm not fitting in the cross-training at the moment but that should ease up soon.

Anyone else used these plans and have they been on target with your eventual marathon times? The evidence of my 10k and half times so far this year is encouraging but the marathon is a whole different ballgame!

rb

Mike D

Great to have this thread available. This will be my second DCM after London last year which was a sweltering 4.30. I'm planning a Sub 4 and will probably follow HH Intemediate 1. Never followed a plan properly before and I think that was my downfall. Am currently running an easy 5k every day and a 10k at the weekend to get used to the increased frequency. The weeks are flying by! Not long till we all start our training proper.

Have enjoyed the thread, Happy running folks!

PDCAT

Hi Folks

Would love to join this thread aswell. Have completed one marathon DCM 11 in 4.13 - not really happy with this. Suffered in the last 8 miles. Lack of mileage due to injury in September which meant i missed three weeks training. Anyway, plan this year is to run Amsterdam the week before Dublin, but that plan may change and i may end up running Dublin.
Am going to be following HH Intermediate 1 Plan. Will save P&D for next marathon. Aiming for sub 3.45.

Van.Bosch

Ok – Im in. This will be my third Marathon, my third Dublin Marathon and my third attempt at sub 4. I did the First marathon in 2009 in 4:10, which I was happy with. I followed the HH Novice one plan and had done half marathons in and around 1:50. I should have been able for sub 4 but looking back I didn’t do enough long runs (>18 Miles) and I paid for it at the end, blowing up at about Mile 15 but getting home in good shape and I was happy enough looking back.

In 2011 I trained harder, got a lot more longer runs in including a 21 Miler in 9:06 pace and a half marathon PB of 1:36. So I was in good shape and should have had the capacity to go sub 4. Didn’t have a great day and went through the half mark in 1:56 which I think shows I didn’t go out too fast. Second half was a disaster and finished in 4:45 which I was really disappointed with.

So this year I am planning to use the P&D plan and stick to it religiously with the aim of going sub 4. Im not going to get carried away and start dreaming of 3:50 or 3:55, I’m just going to plan for sub 4 and hopefully it will happen third time lucky. I’ll probably follow the pacers to make sure I don’t too anything stupid. I also have to take a much better approach to nutrition this year too.

Knightmove

This thread looks perfect for me. I ran my first marathon in April, in Rotterdam. Time was 3.21 which I was happy with, not really knowing what to expect. My goals for DCM12 are twofold. Firstly, to run a little quicker. I have no specific time in mind but I do want to progress. Secondly, to run a little less naively. I ran a 6 minute negative split in Rotterdam primarily as a result of starting way too far back down the field at the start. A separate objective is to be able to run up the Khyber Road in the Phoenix Park and not be huffing and puffing by the time I eventually get to the top. I intend following the P&D55 programme supplemented with mentoring by Asimonov. It seemed to work for the first marathon so may as well keep the same formula. I look forward to exchanging experiences on how we all fare through the training. Good luck to you all.

RedRunner

Just signed up for Great Scottish Run -Half Marathon in September. Its a couple of weeks before Dublin Half so should be a good trial run and good prep for DCM. Thinking of doing the Clontarf also if I can get my mileage up in the next few weeks but would that be a bad idea if following Hal Higdon Inter1. Any views on this? Havent really followed a plan before .

eoin ryan

Hello,
I'm gonna give a sub 3 a bash in Dublin this year. Big step but I think I'll be there or there abouts. Haven't sussed out a plan yet. Anyone recommend a plan that has worked for them in the past please?
eoin

RedRunner

Ok. Just finished my first good week in a while. 4 runs (25 miles) culminating in 10.5 LSR and followed the advice of this thread and novices thread of keeping it slow. ran at 9.38 avg pace . (Target is 4hr DCM which I believe is 9 min mile pace) Felt a little tired at end but overall felt good. Heat was a factor though, hate running in the heat. Roll on next week, with BHAA Gov Servs 5 mile in Dunboyne thrown in for good measure.. Weight down a few pounds too which is good...less to carry around on the runs!

Red Belly

On Saturday I thought I'd beat the worst of the heat by getting out for my long run at 8am. Should have gone out at 6! Real scorcher. The target was 15 miles at 9:15 pace but in keeping with my policy on long runs I didn't push it and eventually finished with an average of 9:29 which I'm pretty happy with given the conditions and a pretty hilly route.

This is the furthest I've run since a 20 miler in the lead up to Cork last year (as a result of injury I walked about 16 miles of Cork) and I'm reasonably satisfied. I was completely spent at the end and the outside of both my calves really ached for an hour or so afterwards which was something a bit odd for me (not cramps but really bad aches).

By September/October I reckon I'll have to be able to do a run like that and feel comfortable at the end of it if I'm going to be able to go sub 4 in Dublin. The Autumn weather conditions will suit me better though.

rb

belcarra

Red Belly wrote: »

On Saturday I thought I'd beat the worst of the heat by getting out for my long run at 8am. Should have gone out at 6! Real scorcher. The target was 15 miles at 9:15 pace but in keeping with my policy on long runs I didn't push it and eventually finished with an average of 9:29 which I'm pretty happy with given the conditions and a pretty hilly route.

This is the furthest I've run since a 20 miler in the lead up to Cork last year (as a result of injury I walked about 16 miles of Cork) and I'm reasonably satisfied. I was completely spent at the end and the outside of both my calves really ached for an hour or so afterwards which was something a bit odd for me (not cramps but really bad aches).

By September/October I reckon I'll have to be able to do a run like that and feel comfortable at the end of it if I'm going to be able to go sub 4 in Dublin. The Autumn weather conditions will suit me better though.

rb

15 Miles on Sat in decent heat means you're in a fine position for your training for Dublin. Stick at it and you'll be covering the same distance as a midweek Medium Slow Run and not think anything of it!
Keep it up!

PaulieC

Just how 'S' should the 'LSR' be ? I am aiming for a 3.30 time in DCM, which is approximately 8.30 per mile.
And on the subject of LSRs, why do they need to be slow ? Should they not be run at PMP ? I must say that even though I did them last year, I really didn't understand why I was doing them and what benefit (apart from the obvious distance) they had.

Micilin Muc

cambo_gueno wrote: »

Just how 'S' should the 'LSR' be ? I am aiming for a 3.30 time in DCM, which is approximately 8.30 per mile.
And on the subject of LSRs, why do they need to be slow ? Should they not be run at PMP ? I must say that even though I did them last year, I really didn't understand why I was doing them and what benefit (apart from the obvious distance) they had.

A 3:30 marathon is 8:00min/mile pace, not 8:30!

I'm going for 3:30 too and will follow P&D's 70-mile plan. My LSRs should be between 8:46min/mile and 9:32min/mile, and every 3 or 4 weeks have PMP miles in the middle ...