McLeish and Villa are done! Solskjaer heavily rumoured

Chucky the tree

Neil3030 wrote: »

Rafa would be an incredible appointment, but I don't see it happening.

The next manager is likely to have to work on a pretty strict budget and get the most out of academy players coming through into the first team. This, in addition to clearing out the last few high earners: Dunne, Warnock, Collins.

Villa basically need a complete rebuild, and won't have a huge amount of cash to do it. Assuming they want to stay, Bent and Given are probably the best and most consistent players at the club. After that, you have Ireland and N'Zogbia who can look great, but also have the potential to be remarkably inconsistent. Then you've Gabby, who has completely lost his pace and Makoun who has a touch of class but yet to be given a decent crack.

The rest of the squad are largely youngsters, who you can classify as (a) initially looked great but yet to really get going (Bannan, Albrighton) (b) starting to look decent (Lichaj, Herd, Clark) (c) exciting prospect but too early to tell (Weimann, Gardner, Currethers, Baker (d) initially looked great but probably not up to it (Delph, Delfouneso).

So depending on how the next manager can work with the youngsters, Villa could well need another 8 players or so. And I really don't see a scenario where the new manager is given more than 20-30m to spend.

I can't see Rafa being interested, tbh.

Possibly but I think it would be a great club for him to go to. He needs time whenever he joins a club, he generally likes having a big say and has extremely detailed tactics he gives players and workers hard with them. Problem is all of this can take time and I think at Villa he'd have plenty of that without results being expected straight away. all other big jobs would expect him to hit the ground running and I'm not sure that suits his style.

Helix

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

seeming like it'll be paul lambert replacing him

invinciblePRSTV

PeterTwo wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Schools out on holidays already?

If you think Villa are as big as Spurs, Pool or Newcastle then you are insane. Considering the fact that McCarthy is considered the prime candidate for the job, a manager who was in charge of and sacked from the team that finished bottom of the league, I think it's safe to say that Villa's future is not in and around the teams mentioned above.

You only start folllowing the PL last year or summat?

Richly ironic you're throwing out cries of 'deluded' and in the next breath citing McCarthy as being the Villa manager. You sir must definitely be the class clown.

Raekwon

PeterTwo wrote: »

But Newcastle had money, they'd sold Carroll for £35 million. I think think these kinds of circumstances, Newcastle are the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'll probably be eating humble pie this time next year, I still can't see Villa finishing higher than 9th or 10th, they have a mid-table squad.

Villa had exactly the same amount of money as Newcastle!

We sold Downing & Young for £36m but unfortunately for us we didn't have a manager as shrewd as Alan Pardew, who signed Ba on a free, Cabaye for £6m & Cissé for £10.

Villa spent the same amount of money on the likes of Hutton & N'Zogbia (£6m & £10m respectively)

All Villa need is the right manager in place and we can rebuild the team from the ground up and bring some of our exciting young players though at the same time.

Brussels Sprout

Come on Jose Mourinho

invinciblePRSTV

Raekwon wrote: »

PeterTwo wrote: »

But Newcastle had money, they'd sold Carroll for £35 million. I think think these kinds of circumstances, Newcastle are the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'll probably be eating humble pie this time next year, I still can't see Villa finishing higher than 9th or 10th, they have a mid-table squad.

Villa had exactly the same amount of money as Newcastle!

We sold Downing & Young for £36m but unfortunately for us we didn't have a manager as shrewd as Alan Pardew, who signed Ba on a free, Cabaye for £6m & Cissé for £10.

Villa spent the same amount of money on the likes of Hutton & N'Zogbia (£6m & £10m respectively)

All Villa need is the right manager in place and we can rebuild the team from the ground up and bring some of our exciting young players though at the same time.

Don't bother explaining, Petertwobraincells is obviously on some kind of windup/doesn't know any better.

Bless his little heart.

PeterTwo

Raekwon wrote: »

Villa had exactly the same amount of money as Newcastle!

We sold Downing & Young for £36m but unfortunately for us we didn't have a manager as shrewd as Alan Pardew, who signed Ba on a free, Cabaye for £6m & Cissé for £10.

Villa spent the same amount of money on the likes of Hutton & N'Zogbia (£6m & £10m respectively)

All Villa need is the right manager in place and we can rebuild the team from the ground up and bring some of our exciting young players though at the same time.

Yes, Newcastle got extremely lucky with the signings they made.

I'm sorry but Villa's squad isn't as strong as any of the top 7 or 8 teams, why is this in dispute?

Neil3030

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Possibly but I think it would be a great club for him to go to. He needs time whenever he joins a club, he generally likes having a big say and has extremely detailed tactics he gives players and workers hard with them. Problem is all of this can take time and I think at Villa he'd have plenty of that without results being expected straight away. all other big jobs would expect him to hit the ground running and I'm not sure that suits his style.

Plus, whoever the next man is will have an even longer honeymoon period due to the fact that he's replacing probably the most unpopular manager in Villa's history.

Like I said, it would be an incredible coup for Villa, but I just don't see it happening.

PeterTwo

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Don't bother explaining, Petertwobraincells is obviously on some kind of windup/doesn't know any better.

Bless his little heart.

Whatever, if you think that Villa have a stronger squad as things stand than any of the top 7/8 teams then I think you're deluded.

Neil3030

PeterTwo wrote: »

Whatever, if you think that Villa have a stronger squad as things stand than any of the top 7/8 teams then I think you're deluded.

Squad wise, Villa are threadbare and seriously behind the likes of Pool, Everton and Newcastle. I don't think anybody disputes that.

But with the right manager who can develop the promising youngsters, a few choice additions and the usual sprinkle of luck that all successful teams need, Villa can be right back up there, imo. They have many of the boxes ticked in terms of being a "big club"; productive academy, world class training facilities, 40k+ stadium, they now need the right captain to steer the ship.

CSF

PeterTwo wrote: »

Raekwon wrote: »

Villa had exactly the same amount of money as Newcastle!

We sold Downing & Young for £36m but unfortunately for us we didn't have a manager as shrewd as Alan Pardew, who signed Ba on a free, Cabaye for £6m & Cissé for £10.

Villa spent the same amount of money on the likes of Hutton & N'Zogbia (£6m & £10m respectively)

All Villa need is the right manager in place and we can rebuild the team from the ground up and bring some of our exciting young players though at the same time.

Yes, Newcastle got extremely lucky with the signings they made.

I'm sorry but Villa's squad isn't as strong as any of the top 7 or 8 teams, why is this in dispute?

Give me back my goalposts you thief!!!!

Bounty Hunter

Helix, what are you hearing about Lambert? you sound as if its almost official

kippy

Raekwon wrote: »

Villa had exactly the same amount of money as Newcastle!

We sold Downing & Young for £36m but unfortunately for us we didn't have a manager as shrewd as Alan Pardew, who signed Ba on a free, Cabaye for £6m & Cissé for £10.

Villa spent the same amount of money on the likes of Hutton & N'Zogbia (£6m & £10m respectively)

All Villa need is the right manager in place and we can rebuild the team from the ground up and bring some of our exciting young players though at the same time.

I thought they had to sell them to:
a. reduce the wage bill
b. pay back a portion (large) of their debts

Again, I'd ask what villas financial position is at the moment.

Helix

kippy wrote: »

I thought they had to sell them to:
a. reduce the wage bill
b. pay back a portion (large) of their debts

Again, I'd ask what villas financial position is at the moment.

a) is correct
b) is not

villas financial position should be a hell of a lot better since the last figures, given that so many of the players on ridiculous wages have now left and there'll be a handful more leaving this summer (heskey on his 60k a week being the most important one on the way out the door)

the club's wage to revenue hit 88% a couple of years back, and as of last season we still paid a higher average wage than spurs, and one of the higest average wages in global team sports - however that figure should be slightly below 60% now, with 65% being the maximum recommended percentage, so things have improved a lot in that regard

invinciblePRSTV

kippy wrote: »

Raekwon wrote: »

Villa had exactly the same amount of money as Newcastle!

We sold Downing & Young for £36m but unfortunately for us we didn't have a manager as shrewd as Alan Pardew, who signed Ba on a free, Cabaye for £6m & Cissé for £10.

Villa spent the same amount of money on the likes of Hutton & N'Zogbia (£6m & £10m respectively)

All Villa need is the right manager in place and we can rebuild the team from the ground up and bring some of our exciting young players though at the same time.

I thought they had to sell them to:
a. reduce the wage bill
b. pay back a portion (large) of their debts

Again, I'd ask what villas financial position is at the moment.

Why ask when you can google for the info? afair theswissramble blog has an excellent analysis on Villa's most recent (2010) accounts. (96M loss).

Since then, Villa have went thru a period of 'austerity', increased commercial revenues and sold talent. So there's no reason to thibk there's not cash in the kitty for new manager x.

Helix

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Villa's most recent (2010) accounts. (96M loss).

£54m

adox

No disrespect to Villa but I`d be surprised if Lambert moved to them. It is s step up but a minor one imo.

McCarthy or Hughton would fit the bill better. Surely Lambert will stay put and hold out for a bigger job further down the line?

Helix

adox wrote: »

No disrespect to Villa but I`d be surprised if Lambert moved to them. It is s step up but a minor one imo.

McCarthy or Hughton would fit the bill better. Surely Lambert will stay put and hold out for a bigger job further down the line?

he didnt seem too confident about that yesterday when asked if he'd be there next year

"it's difficult to say" was his reponse

kippy

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Why ask when you can google for the info? afair theswissramble blog has an excellent analysis on Villa's most recent (2010) accounts. (96M loss).

Since then, Villa have went thru a period of 'austerity', increased commercial revenues and sold talent. So there's no reason to thibk there's not cash in the kitty for new manager x.

I thought Villa fans would be aware of the financial standing of their club to be honest. Also 2010 was two years ago, thought there might have been something more recent.
The issue is not just cash in the kitty anymore though is it? Its the competition they face from the clubs who:
a. Have more money than them,
b. Are in a better league position (hence with some potential european cup games ahead)
than them.

invinciblePRSTV

adox wrote: »

No disrespect to Villa but I`d be surprised if Lambert moved to them. It is s step up but a minor one imo.

McCarthy or Hughton would fit the bill better. Surely Lambert will stay put and hold out for a bigger job further down the line?

Are you smoking crack? why would appointing promotion specialists 'fit the bill better'?

Shur why don't you mention Neil Warnock while you're at it?

That_Guy

PeterTwo wrote: »

If you think Villa are as big as Spurs, Pool or Newcastle then you are insane. Considering the fact that McCarthy is considered the prime candidate for the job, a manager who was in charge of and sacked from the team that finished bottom of the league, I think it's safe to say that Villa's future is not in and around the teams mentioned above.

Come on now, let's not get carried away.

adox

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Are you smoking crack? why would appointing promotion specialists 'fit the bill better'?

Shur why don't you mention Neil Warnock while you're at it?

Its the level that Villa are at at the moment.

Chucky the tree

Lambert would be very foolish to turn down the job. He could easily end up like Eoin Coyle as flavour of the month to relegation. He should take any job now while his repuatation is on the up, he not get this chance again for awhile.

adox

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Lambert would be very foolish to turn down the job. He could easily end up like Eoin Coyle as flavour of the month to relegation. He should take any job now while his repuatation is on the up, he not get this chance again for awhile.

Thats a fair point.

invinciblePRSTV

adox wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Are you smoking crack? why would appointing promotion specialists 'fit the bill better'?

Shur why don't you mention Neil Warnock while you're at it?

Its the level that Villa are at at the moment.

I don't know if you followed events of the past few weeks but Villa didn't get relegated?

Mick McCarthy? guffaw! Getouttahere ya spoofer.

Raekwon

I'm not sure why people think that Villa can't attract a manager like Paul Lambert to the club.

Lambert is in a similar situation to Roberto Martinez at Wigan. He has done exceptionally well but in my opinion he has hit a glass ceiling and I doubt he can bring the club any further then he already has. All I can see for Norwich is midtable mediocrity in the short term to relegation battlers in the long term.

At a club like Villa he will have an opportunity to rebuild one of the biggest clubs in England, reverse their fortunes and get them playing a brand of attractive attacking football.

Yes it's massive challenge but any young manager worth their salt should be jumping all over a chance like that.

kippy

Raekwon wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think that Villa can't attract a manager like Paul Lambert to the club.

Lambert is in a similar situation to Roberto Martinez at Wigan. He has done exceptionally well but in my opinion he has hit a glass ceiling and I doubt he can bring the club any further then he already has. All I can see for Norwich is midtable mediocrity in the short term to relegation battlers in the long term.

At a club like Villa he will have an opportunity to rebuild one of the biggest clubs in England, reverse their fortunes and get them playing a brand of attractive attacking football.

Yes it's massive challenge but any young manager worth their salt should be jumping all over a chance like that.

Indeed but how much money have Villa got to improve their squad to those levels?

Ultimately this "glass ceiling" is defined more by money than history or some misguided belief that a club has "potential" because of it's past

It's not something I agree with but it's an unfortunate side effect of modern times.

I'm also not saying that Lambert won't end up there, but the "glass ceiling" he faces there is just as prevalent at Villa.

adox

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I don't know if you followed events of the past few weeks but Villa didn't get relegated?

Mick McCarthy? guffaw! Getouttahere ya spoofer.

Has McCarthy not managed in the Premier league before? How am I spoofing?
You obviously hold a higher opinion of Villas current stock than I do.

invinciblePRSTV

adox wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I don't know if you followed events of the past few weeks but Villa didn't get relegated?

Mick McCarthy? guffaw! Getouttahere ya spoofer.

Has McCarthy not managed in the Premier league before? How am I spoofing?
You obviously hold a higher opinion of Villas current stock than I do.

And you're entitled to your opinions, no matter how amusingly off the wall they are.

Once again, Mick McCarthy?

*snigger*

CSF

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Lambert would be very foolish to turn down the job. He could easily end up like Eoin Coyle as flavour of the month to relegation. He should take any job now while his repuatation is on the up, he not get this chance again for awhile.

Coyle was ultimately relegated because of his own limitations. Lambert will surely have confidence in his own ability to not go down that road. That said, I think Villa is the sort of project that could make him. Don't see him getting a job in the top 6 (except perhaps Newcastle if Pardew went downhill). Liverpool is probably the best he could hope for right now so Villa isn't that unattractive an option.

Helix

kippy wrote: »

Indeed but how much money have Villa got to improve their squad to those levels?

the club has money - that was never the issue, not for transfer fees anyway

the problem with villa for the last few years has been the fact that the club was wasting tens of millions a year on players who weren't getting played, or who didnt represent anything close to value for money

adox

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

And you're entitled to your opinions, no matter how amusingly off the wall they are.

Once again, Mick McCarthy?

*snigger*

Care to enlighten me with your non deluded candidates for the job?

Raekwon

kippy wrote: »

Indeed but how much money have Villa got to improve their squad to those levels?

Ultimately this "glass ceiling" is defined more by money than history or some misguided belief that a club has "potential" because of it's past

It's not something I agree with but it's an unfortunate side effect of modern times.

When Villa move on the likes of Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Heskey, etc in the summer then the wage bill will be at the manageable level that Randy Lerner want's it to be at.

You have to understand that Villa have been paying the same sort of wages as the likes of Roma & Schalke over the last few seasons and as we were obviously not in the Champions League those sort of wages were totally ridiculous and unattainable.

Once this wages are regulated and Lerner's goal is met then Villa will be in a position to build a squad and push on as a club. I certainly think we have the same spending power as the likes of Newcastle & Sunderland and much more then the likes of Everton, Fulham, WBA and much, much, much more then the likes of Norwich, Swansea & Wigan...........who's managers we will be looking to poach

invinciblePRSTV

kippy wrote: »

Raekwon wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think that Villa can't attract a manager like Paul Lambert to the club.

Lambert is in a similar situation to Roberto Martinez at Wigan. He has done exceptionally well but in my opinion he has hit a glass ceiling and I doubt he can bring the club any further then he already has. All I can see for Norwich is midtable mediocrity in the short term to relegation battlers in the long term.

At a club like Villa he will have an opportunity to rebuild one of the biggest clubs in England, reverse their fortunes and get them playing a brand of attractive attacking football.

Yes it's massive challenge but any young manager worth their salt should be jumping all over a chance like that.

Indeed but how much money have Villa got to improve their squad to those levels?

Ultimately this "glass ceiling" is defined more by money than history or some misguided belief that a club has "potential" because of it's past

It's not something I agree with but it's an unfortunate side effect of modern times.

I'm also not saying that Lambert won't end up there, but the "glass ceiling" he faces there is just as prevalent at Villa.

By that defeatist logic we should just all pack up and go home!

Villa have a billionaire owner, are the largest club in the UKs 2nd largest urban area and even in the bad times can pull in average crowds of 35k. There's plenty of potential to do better then 16th place in the PL, glass ceiling or not.

invinciblePRSTV

adox wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

And you're entitled to your opinions, no matter how amusingly off the wall they are.

Once again, Mick McCarthy?

*snigger*

Care to enlighten me with your non deluded candidates for the job?

Big Ron is 150/1 on PP.

Why not i say? Better then thick Mick anyway...

Nuri Sahin

Shame a betting POV, fancied him to be the first managerial sack next season.

Doodee

Moyes seemed a little pissed off at Everton fans celebrating finishing 7th.
Who knows ^_^

Neil3030

It's kind of mad to think of the situation facing Villa now, actually. When Lerner took over and made the initial plunge on strengthening the squad, you basically had the traditional "top 4" and then Everton as outside contenders.

Next season you will have United and City, who are nailed on for 2 CL spots.

Then you will probably have Arsenal if they can hang onto RVP.

Chelsea, I reckon, will replace RDM this summer and strengthen their squad, so they'll be in the mix, possibly for the title outright.

Liverpool have new owners and are spending money, depending on whether Kenny gets the gig, they will likely be back up competing for a CL spot.

Then you have Spurs, who should again be in amongst the hunt if they hang onto their players.

Same goes for Newcastle, but they are the most likely to fall back out of this list.

The take home message here is that there are now so many strong clubs with a decent claim on CL football spots, Lerner could put another £100m into the club and at best get a Europa League spot. And that's not even factoring in Everton, who always seem to be thereabouts, Sunderland, who could well improve under O'Neill and Fulham, who really look to be improving under Jol.

You have to ask yourself, would he be arsed? If I were a billionaire, I'd be steering clear of the EPL right now. There's no value there at all.

kippy

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

By that defeatist logic we should just all pack up and go home!

Villa have a billionaire owner, are the largest club in the UKs 2nd largest urban area and even in the bad times can pull in average crowds of 35k. There's plenty of potential to do better then 16th place in the PL, glass ceiling or not.

Not at all,
I am just pointing out that money is key, whether it be in squad building, or indeed selling your top players (Milner, Barry, Young) to the two best teams in the league.
The glass ceiling is defined by spending power.

eagle eye

The way I see things at Villa at the moment is that they are almost a mirror image of the Cleveland Browns who as we all know is also owned by Randy Lerner.

Things were looking up for them a few seasons back but then it all fell apart and they are struggling again. Last year Lerner brought in a former head coach as gm which would be a similar position to a dof in the EPL. I think Lerner might go this route with Villa now if he can get the right man for that job.

invinciblePRSTV

kippy wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

By that defeatist logic we should just all pack up and go home!

Villa have a billionaire owner, are the largest club in the UKs 2nd largest urban area and even in the bad times can pull in average crowds of 35k. There's plenty of potential to do better then 16th place in the PL, glass ceiling or not.

Not at all,
I am just pointing out that money is key, whether it be in squad building, or indeed selling your top players (Milner, Barry, Young) to the two best teams in the league.
The glass ceiling is defined by spending power.

Then we're in agreement that money is key, and on that regard Villa should be ok. Even McLeish got 20m to play with so the likelihood is Lerner will back his manager.

Will Villa spend 40m on a player? probably not but as shown by the likes of Newcastle & Spurz, it's smart investment, not big investment, which will propel a club up the PL table.

cgpg5

Great news for Villa really didn't see him being sacked!

And the new manager is... Steve Kean!!!

kippy

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Then we're in agreement that money is key, and on that regard Villa should be ok. Even McLeish got 20m to play with so the likelihood is Lerner will back his manager.

Will Villa spend 40m on a player? probably not but as shown by the likes of Newcastle & Spurz, it's smart investment, not big investment, which will propel a club up the PL table.

Check out the wage bills of Newcastle and Spurs next year and you tell me can Villa compete with that?
Despite all that has been said, Villa weren't able to pay the wages needed to STAY in those top 6-7 positions consistently and the gamble to get into the CL didnt pay off.

Raekwon

On the topic of money, I think that's it's important to realize that Randy Lerner has smashed Villa's transfer on numerous occasions culminating with the £24m signing of Darren Bent.

He also made Alex McLeish the 20th best paid manager in world football on wages over £2m per season.

Helix

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eagle eye wrote: »

The way I see things at Villa at the moment is that they are almost a mirror image of the Cleveland Browns who as we all know is also owned by Randy Lerner.

Things were looking up for them a few seasons back but then it all fell apart and they are struggling again. Last year Lerner brought in a former head coach as gm which would be a similar position to a dof in the EPL. I think Lerner might go this route with Villa now if he can get the right man for that job.

comolli was at villas last home game of the season

Helix

kippy wrote: »

Check out the wage bills of Newcastle and Spurs next year and you tell me can Villa compete with that?
Despite all that has been said, Villa weren't able to pay the wages needed to STAY in those top 6-7 positions consistently and the gamble to get into the CL didnt pay off.

villa paid more than spurs up until last year

we DID pay the kind of wages to stay in those positions, but we paid them to the wrong players

Neil3030

kippy wrote: »

the gamble to get into the CL didnt pay off.

True

kippy wrote: »

Villa weren't able to pay the wages needed to STAY in those top 6-7 positions consistently

Nonsense. Villa weren't able to pay ridiculously high wages to clowns like Sidwell, Beye and Harewood.

kippy

Helix wrote: »

villa paid more than spurs up until last year

we DID pay the kind of wages to stay in those positions, but we paid them to the wrong players

Isn't that what got ye in the trouble ye were in? Paying those wages, not getting the success, and not being able to sustain that spending.

Helix

kippy wrote: »

Isn't that what got ye in the trouble ye were in? Paying those wages, not getting the success, and not being able to sustain that spending.

no, the wages being spent were fine if they were spent on players who warranted that kind of money. we spent it on players who added nothing to the team instead of players who added to it. we HAD enough money for a sustainable push at the top end of the table, but it was used to poorly by the manager that it ultimately crippled the club - and we're only coming out of that period now

to say that we couldnt compete financially, or that we didnt have enough to pay the wages necessary is wrong. we did have enough. it was just used to badly that it was a complete waste

Amirani

I think it's quite clear that McLeish isn't the manager that someone like Villa need to take them forward. His tactics, transfer dealings and player management skills are all average at best. Lambert, Martinez, Coyle and Poyet would all be upgrades and would all probably take the job if offered.