Long Range Shooters - Questions

FISMA

All those who are in to long range shooting, let's say starting at 500ya and out to 1000ya, I would greatly appreciate your feedback on the following.

It isn't as if I really expect to be any real shooting a mile away. However, a few of the lads are heading out to the desert this year and I may have the opportunity to shoot at "the rock," which is a mile away. It would be nice to have a scope that's up to the task.

Basically, I have no idea what scope to get. But that's okay, because I haven't even gotten the rifle! I do have a 338 Win Mag hunting rifle, but may get a dedicated rifle like the TRG.

Anyhow, on the scope side
1) What distance are you working at?
2) What is your preferred magnification and is this fixed or variable?
3) What size bell?
4) What make and model?

On the shooting side
5) What round do you use and why?
6) What round would you like to use and why don't you?

Thanks for any feedback, again, I really need to figure out a scope and have no idea what to buy.

Is there a scope that can handle 500-1500ya?

Would I be better getting a scope for the 750ya range and worrying about farther out when the skills-set warrants?

Cass

FISMA wrote: »

1) What distance are you working at?

Out to 1,000 yards regularly, and 1,200 on occasion.

2) What is your preferred magnification and is this fixed or variable?

Variable, and i've changed between 32 & 42 power. Some lads are going as far as 50.

3) What size bell?

56mm

4) What make and model?

Nightforce NXS 12-42x56mm with NP-R2 reticle & Nightforce 8-32x56 BR model with Target Mil-Dot reticle.

5) What round do you use and why?

155-155.5 at the start, and occasionally on calmer days, and 185 upward regularly to lessen wind drift, and to maintain speed past 1,000 yards.

6) What round would you like to use and why don't you?

200 gr Hybrid just for kicks, and giggles. Will do eventually, but working on another round currently.

Is there a scope that can handle 500-1500ya?

Out to 1,000 you are looking at 25 power or up. Out to 1,500 i'd be inclined to go higher. Something along 50 power. better to have it than need it.

Would I be better getting a scope for the 750ya range and worrying about farther out when the skills-set warrants?

Try and buy "right" from the off, and get used to the scope. No point buying a scope, getting used to it, and being able to work it blindfolded. Then changing and adjusting to it's workings, clicks, reticle, etc.

As for the rifle. I've owned a TRG, and while a fantastic rifle, and well able to get out to 1,000 yards you will work harder in both elevation, and windage than those lads with longer (30") barreled rifles. Due to the inability to match their speeds with the shorter barrel. So a 30" barrel is the usual recommendation for 1,000+ yard dedicated target work.

What caliber are you considering?

FISMA

Ezridax wrote: »

What caliber are you considering?

Ez,
Thanks for the great info, I appreciate your feedback.

I'll see what the budget allows on a price/performance basis. Don't know if I can get good glass with 50x in the range I can afford.

I am not sure about the caliber myself. It is yet to be determined. What caliber are you shooting?

I have a Sako in 338 Win Mag. She should be able to handle 600-800yard shots.

I am probably going to settle on one of these: 308 Win, 338 Lapua, or the 50BMG.

How far out can I expect to shoot the 308 effectively? Is 1000ya wishful thinking?

I like the 308 because the TRG is priced right and the ammo is cheap. I don't like the short barrels.

Going for the Sako in 338Lp is almost another $1000K and a 300% increase in the cost of ammo :-(

The 50BMG is looking better. The AR50 is not as aesthetically pleasing, but gets its job done.

Anyone on your range using Sightron scopes? There's a nice one for $1000K that I was thinking about.

Slan.

So what's your take on the above rounds?

Truth be told, I may just invest in a scope until I "smarten up" on the long range game. Still feel like a duck out of water.

One other question, what's the popular/recommended twist?

Cass

FISMA wrote: »

I am not sure about the caliber myself. It is yet to be determined. What caliber are you shooting?

Shooting a .308 myself in FTR.

I have a Sako in 338 Win Mag. She should be able to handle 600-800yard shots.

With ease. A 338 would good for 1200+ depending on rifle make up, barrel, etc.

I am probably going to settle on one of these: 308 Win, 338 Lapua, or the 50BMG.

From reading, having never shot either the 338 or 50 competitively, they would put you in a different class of shooting, and even in the states ammo would be expensive especially for the 50.

How far out can I expect to shoot the 308 effectively? Is 1000ya wishful thinking?

Not in the slightest. The .308 is used wordwide for 1,000 yard FTR shooting, and out to 1,200 in match comps. After 1,200 the .308 starts to loose out to the larger 338, etc plus this is the limit for comps.

I like the 308 because the TRG is priced right and the ammo is cheap. I don't like the short barrels.

I'm a huge fan of sako rifles, especially the TRG. A Fantastic all round rifle, but the barrel, as stated abve, may make you work harder, and would not be effective for 1,000+ yard shooting. There is only so much muzzle velocity you can squeeze from the 26" barrel. Also for $3,200, and in the states you have so much more choice in terms of makes, models both factory, and custom.

Going for the Sako in 338Lp is almost another $1000K and a 300% increase in the cost of ammo :-(

The 50BMG is looking better. The AR50 is not as aesthetically pleasing, but gets its job done.

Both great rifles to shoot i'm sure, but as you said you have to decide can you live with the cost of running such a rifle.

Anyone on your range using Sightron scopes? There's a nice one for $1000K that I was thinking about.

A few and their support is growing. I've even had the opportunity to try out one myself. Glass clarity is on a par with Nightforce, and with the mag ability of a March for 1/3 the price it's hard to see a fault with them.

Truth be told, I may just invest in a scope until I "smarten up" on the long range game. Still feel like a duck out of water.

You'll soon settle in. As for the scope. If you have not choosen a rifle yet there is no rush for scope, but i would not overlook the Sightron because of price. It's simply keenly priced rather than a reflection of it's quality. Nightforce is a personal favorite so i'm slightly biased there, but at 60-70% more than the Sightron it requires a little more thought. However you do have the knowledge that they have a long proven track record so it will never be a "chance" buy.

One other question, what's the popular/recommended twist?

That's a hard one to answer. The only correct answer is what caliber you intend to shoot, and what bullet you intend to run in that rifle. For example if you went the .308 route, and wanted to go for speed/light bullet over the heavier ones then you would be looking at 1:13 to run a 155 (155.5). If you fancied running a 800 - 1,000 rifle, and wanted the option of going further out to 1,200 then you would look at the heavier, better BC bullets, and hence you would run 185 - 210 gr bullets, and run a 1:10 twist barrel on your choosen rifle.

So the first thing is to pick a caliber. Next is to pick a bullet. This will dcide the twist rate of your barrel.

There are numerous other factory rifles available that will have you shooting, with a scope for the rpice of the TRG on it's own. I've always recommended them, and will continue to do so, but the Savage factory rifles (FTR, Palma) are excellent out of the box rifles. Prices in the states vary from $1.350 for the FTR to $2.000 for the Palma. Throw another $1,000 for a scope, and then $400 for bipod, mat, gear, etc and for $3,500 or less you are shooting FTR in .308.

I am not sure of factory rifles chambered in .338, and the only rifle that comes to mind for 50cal is Barrett. All short barreled rifles, but the round is well able to cope with longer ranges even with the shorter barrels.

Finally the last thing i would suggest is to look at F-open rifles. It's another variation of F-Class shot out to 1,000 yards. The two most popular calibers are 6.5x284 & 7mm. These have been proven to be the most successful calibers, and there are numerous variations of these. For example the 7mm. You have 7WSM, 7/300WSM, 7mmShehane, etc. They are super accurate rifles, and for not alot more than an FTR rifle you could be into one of these. Barrel life is somewhat shorter than that of an FTR rifle, and reloaded ammo is the norm. Although in the states this is not an issue for you.

You can also buy factory rifles in these calibers. Again Savage do a line, but there are other manufacturers in the states that provide a similar rifle. As with the FTr you could be into a rifle, with scope for about $4,000 or so. The only thing is there is a limit of 8mm in terms of what calibers can be shot. This means the 338 & 50cal are out for this sport.

it's a lot to take in, but it pays to do your homework, and pay once, cry once at the start. Then don't look back.

FISMA

Thanks again Ez,
I did see the Savage FTR's and was quite impressed.

I think right now I just may invest in a really good scope. I have the Sako Finnbear Safari AV - it's a hunting rifle. However, the 338 Win Mag should be fine to get me a taste of long range shooting.

Once I started shooting with the long range crowd I imagine I'll find something that I'll take a liking too.

The last thing I want to do is drop 4K on Rifle X and next year figure out that I really wanted rifle Y.

Could you recommend a MOA for a rail if I want to shoot the 338WM from 600-1000ya?

Slan.

Cass

Thats the way to do it. Shoot with what you have then after a few weeks/months decide which sport suits best.

As for a rail. Most .308 use a 20 MOA rail to not only achieve 1,000+ yards but to have plenty of adjustment left. A .338 would use less (i'd imagine) so the same 20 MOA rail could push your distance ability that bit further.

So look for a 20 MOA rail. My personally choice is NEAR.mfg. Top class, precise, but a little more costly than most. About $230 (Canadian).

FISMA

Ezridax wrote: »

So look for a 20 MOA rail. My personally choice is NEAR.mfg. Top class, precise, but a little more costly than most. About $230 (Canadian).

Ez,
It does not appear that Near Mfg stock the rail for my Sako. I am going to contact them wrt a custom job, but that sounds costly.

How are the Roedale rails? Any others you would recommend.

Also, for long range shooting, does anyone use a fine reticle, or dot? How many use mil dots?

You're right about the Savage FTR's - looks like a lot of gun for the money. Here's a nice one in 338 and here's another in 308, but with a nice 30" barrel.

At this price, one could hardly go wrong with - 26" 338LP.

Decisions, decisions.