Ireland as a host for Euro 2020?

Jimmy Iovine

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just when I though this thread could not get any worse, it just has.

Try going to a major soccer international tournament some time.

For what reason? 50,000 people go to the British Open each day that it is on. That amounts to 200,000 people over the course of 4 days. We had to stay 50km away. We had no bother at all trying to get to the course. The transport measures in place were first class.

It easily replicable in Ireland. Trains from Cork to Thurles. Semple Stadium is 300 yards up the road.

Realistically we are talking about 4/5 games being held in Thurles. Now as I mentioned before if the organisers of the British Open can get 50,000 people to a town which is 50/60 miles from a city of any size, then the organisers of the European Championships can do the exact same in Ireland.

ArmaniJeanss

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

For what reason? 50,000 people go to the British Open each day that it is on. That amounts to 200,000 people over the course of 4 days. We had to stay 50km away. We had no bother at all trying to get to the course. The transport measures in place were first class.

It easily replicable in Ireland. Trains from Cork to Thurles. Semple Stadium is 300 yards up the road.

Realistically we are talking about 4/5 games being held in Thurles. Now as I mentioned before if the organisers of the British Open can get 50,000 people to a town which is 50/60 miles from a city of any size, then the organisers of the European Championships can do the exact same in Ireland.

Its fairly necessary for golf courses though as the best ones tend not be found 1km away from main street. Its not as if they could have said lets use that lovely links course at the end of Glasgows theatre district.

So for football tournaments the question would be why they would choose such a bizarre idea as bid stadia where the fans have to stay 100km away?
When it theory there are plenty of other options which are more sensible bids.

But as things actually stand only us, Georgia and Turkey have a bid in with 9 hours to go.
Turkey are 1/20 in my book but who knows what will happen in the 18 months to the decision (war with Greece, earthquake, deciding they cant afford it) leaving Celtic Nations v Georgia. :eek::eek:

Fr Tod Umptious

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Its fairly necessary for golf courses though as the best ones tend not be found 1km away from main street. Its not as if they could have said lets use that lovely links course at the end of Glasgows theatre district.

So for football tournaments the question would be why they would choose such a bizarre idea as bid stadia where the fans have to stay 100km away?
When it theory there are plenty of other options which are more sensible bids.

But as things actually stand only us, Georgia and Turkey have a bid in with 9 hours to go.
Turkey are 1/20 in my book but who knows what will happen in the 18 months to the decision (war with Greece, earthquake, deciding they cant afford it) leaving Celtic Nations v Georgia. :eek::eek:

Just because a country is not exactly up to our standards does not mean that they cannot host the tournament.

There is nothing to stop the Georgian govt ploughing millions of (oil) money into the building of stadiums and infrastructure, as it seems Poland and Ukraine have done.

St.Spodo

People are actually hoping that UEFA will give the go-ahead for us to host the Euros with the shítty Gaelic stadia, as opposed to countries with high-quality football stadia and infrastructure already in place. This is nuts.

Coillte_Bhoy

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

For what reason? 50,000 people go to the British Open each day that it is on. That amounts to 200,000 people over the course of 4 days. We had to stay 50km away. We had no bother at all trying to get to the course. The transport measures in place were first class.

It easily replicable in Ireland. Trains from Cork to Thurles. Semple Stadium is 300 yards up the road.

Realistically we are talking about 4/5 games being held in Thurles. Now as I mentioned before if the organisers of the British Open can get 50,000 people to a town which is 50/60 miles from a city of any size, then the organisers of the European Championships can do the exact same in Ireland.

Somehow i think trying to move 50,000 soccer fans around may cause slightly more logistical problems than 50,000 golf fans. And if for example England are drawn to play in Thrules, what would you do??

Richard Hillman

I think we should be biding for something more realistic like the Winter Olympics or trying to become the 33rd team in the 2014 World Cup.

dan1895

If we were to get the Euros and start building these stadia in the likes of cork and Limerick and wherever, what do you propose be done with them after the finals?

Jimmy Iovine

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Its fairly necessary for golf courses though as the best ones tend not be found 1km away from main street. Its not as if they could have said lets use that lovely links course at the end of Glasgows theatre district.

So for football tournaments the question would be why they would choose such a bizarre idea as bid stadia where the fans have to stay 100km away?
When it theory there are plenty of other options which are more sensible bids.

But as things actually stand only us, Georgia and Turkey have a bid in with 9 hours to go.
Turkey are 1/20 in my book but who knows what will happen in the 18 months to the decision (war with Greece, earthquake, deciding they cant afford it) leaving Celtic Nations v Georgia. :eek::eek:

I know it's necessary. The point I'm making is that the travel concerns are easily overcome. Whether it's Cork or Dublin they are coming from it's only an hour and a half on a train to get there. The fans travelling in Ukraine will have to spend 8 hours getting to one of the other group games and then they'll have another journey back. That's far more unreasonable.

Our bid will hinge on the vote on the 7th of September next year. The IOC will vote as to where the next Olympics is held. If it's Turkey then we will get it in my opinion.

If you think a triple bid from Ireland/Scotland/Wales is bad then Georgia would be worse. They have one stadium that's above 50k, two stadia that are in the 20k category and the rest are the equivalent of our criticised GAA stadia.

ArmaniJeanss

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just because a country is not exactly up to our standards does not mean that they cannot host the tournament.

There is nothing to stop the Georgian govt ploughing millions of (oil) money into the building of stadiums and infrastructure, as it seems Poland and Ukraine have done.

I'd agree, I'm not denigrating Georgia, and I'd still put them marginally ahead of the CelNat (copyright AJ 15/05/12) bid.
But even with oil money ploughed in any Georgia bid has a few serious problems, not least their continued armed stand off with Russia.

Dempsey

dan1895 wrote: »

If we were to get the Euros and start building these stadia in the likes of cork and Limerick and wherever, what do you propose be done with them after the finals?

Sell them to the GAA & IRFU :pac:

plasmaguy

I wouldn't want the Euros in Ireland anyways, because for a couple weeks of pleasure, we'd have years of pain, trying to pay back the billions, seriously not worth it.

Look at Greece for an example of a country who couldn't afford a major games but went ahead and done it anyways.

I think Canada only managed to pay off the Montreal Olympics there last year as well.

ArmaniJeanss

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

The fans travelling in Ukraine will have to spend 8 hours getting to one of the other group games and then they'll have another journey back. That's far more unreasonable.

Nope thats completely different.
It's always been considered perfectly fine to have journeys between your games, whether thats from Kharkiv to Lviv, or New York to Orlando and back.

Having games in towns that you cant actually stay in and instead having to travel 2 hours back to Dublin at 23:00 after a game would be a majorly new way of new things.

Jimmy Iovine

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Somehow i think trying to move 50,000 soccer fans around may cause slightly more logistical problems than 50,000 golf fans.

Why?

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And if for example England are drawn to play in Thrules, what would you do??

Play the match. What else would happen?

The same concerns could be had with Turkey and Greece. They aren't exactly the best of friends. On the whole I feel Irish and English relations would be better.

kitakyushu

This *might* have been viable back in the eight team Euro days (pre 1996).

However, the idea that Ireland could host (or even half host) the tournament is a joke. A large part of the point of these tournaments is that UEFA want to promote the sport in that particular country, so the idea of having it all in GAA grounds kind of defeats the point.

So unless you can offer 4-6 state of the art 30k+ SOCCER stadia in different cities in this country and convince those involved that there actually is enough public interest in this country to fill those particular stadia (which I'm convinced there isn't) then this idea is a non starter.

TaosHum

Georgia, according to Wiki, currently have 1 stadium over 30,000 :eek:

Thus if Turkey do get the Olympics, then Semple Stadium here we come :pac:

Dempsey

Thurles/Semple Stadium does not satisfy several requirements. Its not financially viable to upgrade them either.

Coillte_Bhoy

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Why?

You serious? I give up.

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Play the match. What else would happen?

The same concerns could be had with Turkey and Greece. They aren't exactly the best of friends. On the whole I feel Irish and English relations would be better.

If England were playing in Dublin it might not be as big a problem, but still would be a problem. But trying to move tens of thousands of them across the country would require a huge security operation. Every scumbag in the place would be looking to start something as well. The police in turkey and Greece are well experienced in handling such situations. We very clearly are not.

Fr Tod Umptious

TaosHum wrote: »

Georgia, according to Wiki, currently have 1 stadium over 30,000 :eek:

Thus if Turkey do get the Olympics, then Semple Stadium here we come :pac:

• 2.1 Istanbul, Turkey
• 2.2 Tokyo, Japan
• 2.3 Baku, Azerbaijan
• 2.4 Doha, Qatar
• 2.5 Madrid, Spain

Ok, I think we are safe.
Tokyo to get the Olympics, have not had the summer since 1960, so Turkey to get the Euros, crisis over.

Coillte_Bhoy

kitakyushu wrote: »

This *might* have been viable back in the eight team Euro days (pre 1996).

However, the idea that Ireland could host (or even half host) the tournament is a joke. A large part of the point of these tournaments is that UEFA want to promote the sport in that particular country, so the idea of having it all in GAA grounds kind of defeats the point.

So unless you can offer 4-6 state of the art 30k+ SOCCER stadia in different cities in this country and convince those involved that there actually is enough public interest in this country to fill those particular stadia (which I'm convinced there isn't) then this idea is a non starter.

I dont think ti would be a major issue filling them for the games tbh

LuckyLloyd

joshrogan wrote: »

I think a rugby world cup would be a more reasonable target if it was an all Ireland affair.

We've co-hosted the Rugby World Cup twice before...

kitakyushu

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I dont think ti would be a major issue filling them for the games tbh

Italy v Germany semi-final in Dublin? No problem.

Romania v Bulgaria Group B wooden spoon game in Thurles? Problems.

Coillte_Bhoy

kitakyushu wrote: »

Romania v Bulgaria Group B wooden spoon game in Thurles? Problems.

Be the same no matter where it's held

Patser

I can't get over all the negativity here. Just to say up front, I'd reckon we'd be better going for the Rugby World Cup as more realistic but I can see no reason why Ireland couldn't host the Euros especially with a joint bid of Scotland or Wales. Lets look at some of the objections and how they could be dealt with;

1. Number of grounds - do a quick wiki search on GAA grounds in Ireland and there 11 with capacity of 30,000 or more. Yes I know these will be mostly standing now but the grounds are there with the basic infrastructure. If we were given the Euros we wouldn't be gosting it for 8 years at least - imagine how much work could be done renovating and extending already existing stadia to all seaters over that time. And there's the pay off to the GAA, give us a loan of your stadia for a few weeks in 2020 (or whenever) and you'll get nicely upgraded stadia in return.

2. Accomodation - Is this really a serious concern? Look at Poland/Ukraine now. Poznan where the Irish are heading hasn't nearly enough hotel rooms either, so the simple solution is fan camping zones. It's not like Semple in Thurles (which is being criticised earlier in the thread) never hosted a week-end long music festival with camping all round it. Fitzgerald Stadium is one of the largest stadiums in Ireland, do you think Killarney couldn't cope with large tourists numbers. Cork, Limerick, Galway all have large numbers of hotels and all have other large towns very close with extra rooms if needed, for example Kinsale, Waterford, Midleton for Cork.

3. Infrastrusture: Ireland is not huge like the Ukraine and has a much higher standard of motorways now. It'll be a great use of all our lovely new toll roads. And look at all the regional airports we have that could be used to bring in fans. Do you not think the likes of Shannon, Knock, Kerry, Cork, Waterford, Sligo airports couldn't all use a boost.

4. Cost: Yes this is the big one, given our current financial mess but as I said above, most of what we need is already in place. The main costs will be the renovation of existing stadiums and if we're sharing the tournament not many of them will be needed. Croker and the Aviva are pretty much ready to go, Thomond is also new. As for the GAA grounds, ripping out the concrete benches and replacing them with proper seating would not run into the Billions Plasmaguy mentions, maybe a couple of Hundred million, shared out over 8 years.

Now look at the benefits. Thousands of jobs created getting the stadiums ready, while Ireland has something to look forward to and plan other than the currently miserable outlook we have. A huge boost in tourist numbers for the tournament with hopeful spin off benefits into the future. And a massive party here when it happens with Ireland guaranteed qualification.

kitakyushu

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Be the same no matter where it's held

Absolutely. But isn't that the point then.

Coillte_Bhoy

kitakyushu wrote: »

Absolutely. But isn't that the point then.

If its the same regardless why use it in relation to Ireland only?

dan1895

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I dont think ti would be a major issue filling them for the games tbh

And what about after the tournament?

dan1895

Patser wrote: »

I can't get over all the negativity here. Just to say up front, I'd reckon we'd be better going for the Rugby World Cup as more realistic but I can see no reason why Ireland couldn't host the Euros especially with a joint bid of Scotland or Wales. Lets look at some of the objections and how they could be dealt with;

1. Number of grounds - do a quick wiki search on GAA grounds in Ireland and there 11 with capacity of 30,000 or more. Yes I know these will be mostly standing now but the grounds are there with the basic infrastructure. If we were given the Euros we wouldn't be gosting it for 8 years at least - imagine how much work could be done renovating and extending already existing stadia to all seaters over that time. And there's the pay off to the GAA, give us a loan of your stadia for a few weeks in 2020 (or whenever) and you'll get nicely upgraded stadia in return.

2. Accomodation - Is this really a serious concern? Look at Poland/Ukraine now. Poznan where the Irish are heading hasn't nearly enough hotel rooms either, so the simple solution is fan camping zones. It's not like Semple in Thurles (which is being criticised earlier in the thread) never hosted a week-end long music festival with camping all round it. Fitzgerald Stadium is one of the largest stadiums in Ireland, do you think Killarney couldn't cope with large tourists numbers. Cork, Limerick, Galway all have large numbers of hotels and all have other large towns very close with extra rooms if needed, for example Kinsale, Waterford, Midleton for Cork.

3. Infrastrusture: Ireland is not huge like the Ukraine and has a much higher standard of motorways now. It'll be a great use of all our lovely new toll roads. And look at all the regional airports we have that could be used to bring in fans. Do you not think the likes of Shannon, Knock, Kerry, Cork, Waterford, Sligo airports couldn't all use a boost.

4. Cost: Yes this is the big one, given our current financial mess but as I said above, most of what we need is already in place. The main costs will be the renovation of existing stadiums and if we're sharing the tournament not many of them will be needed. Croker and the Aviva are pretty much ready to go, Thomond is also new. As for the GAA grounds, ripping out the concrete benches and replacing them with proper seating would not run into the Billions Plasmaguy mentions, maybe a couple of Hundred million, shared out over 8 years.

Now look at the benefits. Thousands of jobs created getting the stadiums ready, while Ireland has something to look forward to and plan other than the currently miserable outlook we have. A huge boost in tourist numbers for the tournament with hopeful spin off benefits into the future. And a massive party here when it happens with Ireland guaranteed qualification.

Why would UEFA want their tournament held in another sports stadia? Its the same reason why the Champions League final hasn't been considered for Croke Park, its not a football stadium but we got the Europa League final almost the instant we had a football stadium that met the minimum requirement.

Coillte_Bhoy

Patser wrote: »

4. Cost: Yes this is the big one, given our current financial mess but as I said above, most of what we need is already in place. The main costs will be the renovation of existing stadiums and if we're sharing the tournament not many of them will be needed. Croker and the Aviva are pretty much ready to go, Thomond is also new. As for the GAA grounds, ripping out the concrete benches and replacing them with proper seating would not run into the Billions Plasmaguy mentions, maybe a couple of Hundred million, shared out over 8 years.

See most of it is not in place. it would be more practical and probably cheaper to demolish the provincial GAA stadia mentioned and build from scratch.

McHale Park and Pearse Stadium are two that have been mentioned and im very familiar with. They both have 9,000 seater stands and i cannot possibly see how they would meet even the lowest uefa criteria, let alone the concrete masses on 3 sides of the grounds.

If it were just a matter of installing the required no of seats then ya, i could maybe see where ye're coming from but thats only the tip of the iceberg.

O h ya we're bust as country and will be for at least a deacde or has everyone forgotten that.

Coillte_Bhoy

dan1895 wrote: »

And what about after the tournament?

What about after?? I wasnt referring to any point on that issue but seen as you asked they would be white elephants

Coillte_Bhoy

dan1895 wrote: »

Why would UEFA want their tournament held in another sports stadia? Its the same reason why the Champions League final hasn't been considered for Croke Park, its not a football stadium but we got the Europa League final almost the instant we had a football stadium that met the minimum requirement.

Bit more to it than that in fairness.

plasmaguy

What is the sense of Re-developing Pearse Stadium or McHale Park?

Both stadiums would get a capacity crowd once a year if lucky after re-development.

Spending perhaps 100 million on each to redevelop them makes no sense.

dan1895

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Bit more to it than that in fairness.

Wasn't it considered a few years ago to make a bid but that never went ahead as UEFA wouldn't give it to Croker over the vast amount of actual "soccer" grounds in Europe. I stand to be corrected on this as this is just a vague memory I have, probably heard it while locked!

homerjay2005

lads forget about mchale park or galway or thurlus....those "stadiums" are grand for gaa, but they lack everything possible to be anywhere near good enough. they would need to be knocked to the ground to have any hope.

if we are to get this, croker and lansdown are 2, with thomand as a possible third, but needing reworks.

anything else is just not viable or possible apart from building a new stadium in cork, thats only other option.

kitakyushu

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

If its the same regardless why use it in relation to Ireland only?

It's the same insofar as it's a challenging fixture any city. It's different insofar as the level of failure to fill the stadium is relative to where you hold it.

For instance, if say a city with a metro population of a million people, a top professional club (therefore a public who routinely go out to games week on week) club can't be bothered to go see that fixture in large enough numbers then what's the scene going to look like at somewhere smaller like Thurles or Limerick etc where there isn't even any large deep rooted interest in football to begin with. I could honestly picture the place 3/4ers or 4/5ths empty. That's not a good image.

Orizio

The GAA won't rent their grounds in June/July for obvious reasons. Nevermind the fact that every GAA ground that isn't Croker is a ****hole.

mikeym

Can only see the new Landsdowne Road being used.

Kidchameleon

All arguments that doubt small country's hosting a tournament went out the window when Qatar won the 2022 bid.

Reekwind

Honestly, I don't see why people are banging on about grounds. There are three potential stadiums in Ireland that would meet UEFA standards - Lansdowne, Croke Park and Thomond. That's enough. Wales can provide two/three and Scotland another two/three to hit the magic number of eight. Stadiums are not the problem; it's the insanity of the rest of the bid that should give people pause for thought

Patser wrote: »

2. Accomodation - Is this really a serious concern? Look at Poland/Ukraine now. Poznan where the Irish are heading hasn't nearly enough hotel rooms either, so the simple solution is fan camping zones. It's not like Semple in Thurles (which is being criticised earlier in the thread) never hosted a week-end long music festival with camping all round it

Are you seriously suggesting that the FAI pitch a bid to UEFA that depends on fans camping around the stadium because there is insufficient hotel space? We'd be a laughing stock

Dempsey

Reekwind wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see why people are banging on about grounds. There are three potential stadiums in Ireland that would meet UEFA standards - Lansdowne, Croke Park and Thomond. That's enough. Wales can provide two/three and Scotland another two/three to hit the magic number of eight. Stadiums are not the problem; it's the insanity of the rest of the bid that should give people pause for thought

Are you seriously suggesting that the FAI pitch a bid to UEFA that depends on fans camping around the stadium because there is insufficient hotel space? We'd be a laughing stock

Currently you need 9 stadiums for a 16 team tournament, with two having a capacity of over 50,000 seats, three with 40,000 seats and four with 30,000 seats. In 2020, there will be 24 teams so the requirements will be revised upwards.

Renn

Reekwind wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see why people are banging on about grounds. There are three potential stadiums in Ireland that would meet UEFA standards - Lansdowne, Croke Park and Thomond. That's enough. Wales can provide two/three and Scotland another two/three to hit the magic number of eight. Stadiums are not the problem; it's the insanity of the rest of the bid that should give people pause for thought

Are you seriously suggesting that the FAI pitch a bid to UEFA that depends on fans camping around the stadium because there is insufficient hotel space? We'd be a laughing stock

Honestly, I don't see why people keep including Croke Park in their reasoning. Championship will be on - no way are the GAA going to give up that.

Reekwind

Fair point. But given that Scotland has the SPL and Wales has two clubs in the two top tiers of English football (plus rugby grounds), Ireland was never going to be a major partner in this bid

Coillte_Bhoy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

All arguments that doubt small country's hosting a tournament went out the window when Qatar won the 2022 bid.

Oh ffs

flas

i can see it being a runner for the simple fact it has a selling point, as in a celtic nations selling point, i can see the twirly signs and stuff already! uefa love a unique selling point!

rossie1977

Renn wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see why people keep including Croke Park in their reasoning. Championship will be on - no way are the GAA going to give up that.

yeah its not like they didn't dig up the entire pitch in july 2009 to accommodate u2, leinster final was on july 12th and next match in croke park took place on august 2nd

Renn

Euros are on for 3 weeks in June - 3 or 4 games could be played in 3 weeks in that month. Just cannot see anything like that happening.

Patser

Reekwind wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that the FAI pitch a bid to UEFA that depends on fans camping around the stadium because there is insufficient hotel space? We'd be a laughing stock

Why? There are huge camping grounds being set up in Gdansk and Poznan to cater for fans. Not to mention that UEFA awarded this years tournament to Ukraine which has even fewer hotel rooms available. Look 6 paragraphs into this link

Quote:

Even taking into account the progress that has been made, a visit to either Kharkiv or Donetsk today will leave you struck by the dearth in the numbers of hotels available. For instance, in Donetsk, less than 600 hotel rooms exist in a city which is due to host a EURO 2012 semi-final in a gleaming new stadium which seats 50,000. UEFA alone require 40 hotels rooms to accommodate their officials, and each competing team will use a minimum of 60 rooms. It’s no surprise then that the local authorities have been looking to convince UEFA of the feasibility of bussing fans to surrounding cities after matches in search of beds to sleep in

http://www.goal.com/en/news/2898/euro-2012/2010/02/04/1775662/euro-2012-special-ukraine-have-made-huge-progress-but-theres

That's a city hosting Semi-Final but we'd be laughed at by UEFA

The main issue I see is the GAA/Soccer one - it's not a UEFA affiliate ground so why put a game there. So, to be fair, I can't see us hosting the Euros any time soon but at the same time we could if sporting politics took back seat.

And that's why I get the feeling that hosting the Rugby World Cup would be a better bet, there's more flexibility there about games being 'shared' between countries and codes.

Jimmy Iovine

Renn wrote: »

Honestly, I don't see why people keep including Croke Park in their reasoning. Championship will be on - no way are the GAA going to give up that.

The Euros will be on during June. It will affect almost no matches.

There are Leinster football quarter finals and semis being played there. There is no need to play them there. They should and could be played elsewhere.

There are also a few cup finals but they could be moved forward to accommodate. After that there are a few concerts.

If it ran late then the Leinster hurling final could be moved by a week or the venue could be changed. Nowlan Park would be an option.

The GAA will do anything for money. Westlife and the Red Hot Chili Peppers are playing there two weeks before a Leinster final.

SantryRed

There is absolutely no way the gaa would move games. Remember UEFA want full access to the stadiums for a period before and during the games. Which means no games can be played there during that time except the Euros.

Renn

From early June to early July 2011 there were 4 football matches played and 1 hurling match. 234,000 people attended those games. I just can't see them accommodating something as big as the Euros tbh.

Samich

Georgia are running, and Turkey seem to be out of it due to match fixing scandals!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15052012/58/euro-2012-scotland-wales-ireland-euro-2020-bid.html

All the negativity, bleh, you'd swear we'd hosting it on our own, it would be very do able, and the money into the economy would be good (although it's 8 years away, lot's of things could change)